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Carling cup semis (scores)

2

Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,692 ✭✭✭✭OPENROAD


    SuprSi wrote: »
    Well I don't think Arsenal deserved anything from that game, and Defoe should be shot for that miss just after he came on. Once again Spurs have thrown away a great opportuinity to stay ahead, though I'd hope we're stronger in the resolve department for the next game to get a result at home.

    I wonder will Wenger stick with his young team? It'll certinaly make the next game interesting anyway.


    :D Our reserve team and you still can't beat us.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,099 ✭✭✭✭WhiteWashMan


    *yawn*


  • Users Awaiting Email Confirmation Posts: 15,001 ✭✭✭✭Pepe LeFrits


    Yawn on my thread? I challenge you to fisticuffs!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 27,856 ✭✭✭✭Dave!


    Damn... Spurs were the better team, should really have won.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,951 ✭✭✭DSB


    It was Arsenal reserves though. They've no excuse for not winning really.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,399 ✭✭✭✭Thanx 4 The Fish


    Spurs unlucky, think that they will do it in the second leg.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,372 ✭✭✭✭Mr Alan


    Arsenals "reserves" cost a fair few bob though, and Spurs team is suprisingly young too


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,692 ✭✭✭✭OPENROAD


    Mr Alan wrote: »
    Arsenals "reserves" cost a fair few bob though, and Spurs team is suprisingly young too


    Spuds team have more experience as for the cost of the reserves, how do you arrive at that.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 30,746 ✭✭✭✭Galvasean


    Mr Alan wrote: »
    Arsenals "reserves" cost a fair few bob though, and Spurs team is suprisingly young too

    Do your maths. The combined cost of most of today's Arsenal team was less than Darren Bent.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,692 ✭✭✭✭OPENROAD


    Galvasean wrote: »
    Do your maths. The combined cost of most of today's Arsenal team was less than Darren Bent.

    Exactly, a strange post imo.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 7,014 ✭✭✭SuprSi


    To be honest, I wouldn't have cared if Wenger himself took to the pitch last night. What matters is a) the result and b) the performance. Now, the result wasn't ideal as Spurs deserved more, but the performance was good, and the scoreline doesn't do the performance justice. Spurs dominated for the vast majority of the game and only some wasteful finishing from Defoe and Malbranque, and a lucky Walcott goal kept Arsenal in the tie.

    If Spurs can play like that in two weeks time a win would be more likely, though there is still the curse of the Arsenal, and Spurs have to overcome 8 years of not being able to beat them to get through to the next round.

    On a side note, round of applause to the ref who I thought was excellent. He kept the flow of the game going, didn't hand out any yellow cards (both teams can take a bow for this too), and was only noticeable when necessary. A proper referring performance and hopefully he'll be chosen for the return leg.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 36,171 ✭✭✭✭~Rebel~


    Galvasean wrote: »
    Do your maths. The combined cost of most of today's Arsenal team was less than Darren Bent.

    ? Walcott alone is down as 12million (http://www.skysports.com/football/player/0,19754,11670_304763,00.html). I know, i know, clauses etc but you can bet you ass its the same situation with Bent, as it is with pretty much any transfer nowadays.

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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 30,746 ✭✭✭✭Galvasean


    Arsenal starting XI:
    Fabianski (undisclosed, possibly as much as 2 million)
    Traore (<£1million)
    Senderos (£2.5m)
    Djouru (<£1m)
    Hoyte (youth academy)
    Gilberto (£4.5m)
    Denilson (£3.4m)
    Diaby (£2m)
    Walcott (£12m)
    (a very unfit I might add) van Persie (£3m)
    Bendtner (<£1m)

    So, the starting XI tallies up to about 30 million (damn Walcott being WAY overpriced...), divide it by 11 and you have a price of just under 3million each, not exactly expensive by top flight standards.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 8,567 ✭✭✭Unearthly


    Diaby looks great business for 2 million


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 17,936 ✭✭✭✭astrofool


    Galvasean wrote: »
    Arsenal starting XI:
    Fabianski (undisclosed, possibly as much as 2 million)
    Traore (<£1million)
    Senderos (£2.5m)
    Djouru (<£1m)
    Hoyte (youth academy)
    Gilberto (£4.5m)
    Denilson (£3.4m)
    Diaby (£2m)
    Walcott (£12m)
    (a very unfit I might add) van Persie (£3m)
    Bendtner (<£1m)

    So, the starting XI tallies up to about 30 million (damn Walcott being WAY overpriced...), divide it by 11 and you have a price of just under 3million each, not exactly expensive by top flight standards.

    Another interesting stat might be how much they spent on youth that didn't make it. After all, it's not hard to sign a young player at a cheap price, but it's hard to sign the right young player.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,692 ✭✭✭✭OPENROAD


    astrofool wrote: »
    Another interesting stat might be how much they spent on youth that didn't make it. After all, it's not hard to sign a young player at a cheap price, but it's hard to sign the right young player.


    We have a lot of players who came through the ranks but did not make it,so its fair to say no cost associated with that. As for others that were bought, I think you will find as you said price was cheap and so overall our spend is far far less than not only the other so called top three,but teams in the next league. So despite being the richest club in England based on turnover, Wenger will carry on spending on the cheap rather than splashing out over £16M on players like Darren Bent.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 30,746 ✭✭✭✭Galvasean


    OPENROAD wrote: »
    We have a lot of players who came through the ranks but did not make it,so its fair to say no cost associated with that. As for others that were bought, I think you will find as you said price was cheap and so overall our spend is far far less than not only the other so called top three,but teams in the next league. So despite being the richest club in England based on turnover, Wenger will carry on spending on the cheap rather than splashing out over £16 on players like Darren Bent.

    Well its not like Wenger has no bloopers to his name; Richard Wright and Francis Jeffers come to mind. Although recently Wenger's transfer record has been very good. Walcott might be an exception, although he has plenty of time to turn it around... Actually it seems if Arsenal spend a lot of money on English players they tend to flop. Well its well known at this point that a promising young English player costs a lot more than one of any other nationality.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 30,746 ✭✭✭✭Galvasean


    astrofool wrote: »
    Another interesting stat might be how much they spent on youth that didn't make it.
    The Jermaine Pennants and Ashley Coles of the Arsenal world usually get sold on for profit. :D
    astrofool wrote: »
    After all, it's not hard to sign a young player at a cheap price, but it's hard to sign the right young player.
    Cesc Fabregas agrees.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 17,936 ✭✭✭✭astrofool


    Well, on the subject of Darren Bent, he will most likely get what they paid for when they sell him on, or close to it, if he propels Spurs up the table, he'll earn back his transfer fee and then some (providing they give him a first team berth, maybe when berbatov moves on...).

    So, for example, Rooney cost United about £24m, he has at least earned that back and his wages by the success on the field and through merchandising in the last few years. Were united to sell him on at the same cost, they would probably make a loss due to lost earnings (like happened with Beckham, who single handedly propelled Real's income to the top).

    Signing 10 youngsters that fail at £2m each will never earn anything back, their wages didn't contribute to any success at the club, and at most their benefit will be that they might have taught some skills to other players (very intangible benefit).

    It's all well and good to list all the successes, but to get the true cost of that "second string" team, you need to add the cost of all the players that were bought at the same time and didn't make it (as Arsenal tend to buy them at 15/16 for increased cost when they're just about established rather than at 8 and 9, when the cost is lower).

    So far it's worked well for Wenger however, but this is the first season in 4 that Arsenal have been challenging in the league, and they've had some trophyless years in the mean time.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 30,746 ✭✭✭✭Galvasean


    I can't believe people still try argue that Arsenal arent getting value for money in the transfer market. All their signings this season were bought for less than the money made on Thierry Henry's sale.
    As for trophyless years, I'm sure our neighbours Tottenham can testify. How many trophies have they won in recent years with all their big money signings? And Bent propelling Tottenham upwards in the league? I seem to recall Tottenham nearly getting into the Champions League a couple of years back. Since Bent arrived they've done considerably worse. Good business.


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  • Users Awaiting Email Confirmation Posts: 15,001 ✭✭✭✭Pepe LeFrits


    I think you'd be doing well to name 10 Wenger youngsters signed for fees in the region of £2m that failed. Most Arsenal youngsters command decent fees when they move on because they are good players. See Muamba (2-4m), Larsson (1m), Stokes (2.3m) and so on. Pennant was a £2m failure but then Arsenal have probably gotten about £6.5m for him between the transfer to Birmingham and the sell on to Liverpool.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,617 ✭✭✭✭PHB


    Yeh, that's what I'd like to see. Somebody please list for me these mistakes Wenger has made. And even if there are 10 failures, one Fabregas makes it up


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 17,936 ✭✭✭✭astrofool


    I'm not disagreeing that Wenger is good in the transfer market, just that a comment like "the whole team cost less than X" is not exactly the whole truth. Tottenham have been relatively bad in the transfer market (though Carrick and Berbatov were good catches).

    Besides, all Arsenal transfer fee's are undisclosed, so only one or two people will know the real truth.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,692 ✭✭✭✭OPENROAD


    At the end of the day it is fair to say and accepted that Arsenal have spent less than Man Utd, Chelsea and Liverpool over say the last five seasons as example.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,372 ✭✭✭✭Mr Alan


    Arsenal have definately spent less. No denying that. And i reckon that Wenger in among the top managers of all time. My post was just in relation to the attitude Arsenal fans take sometimes of how good their young players are. Its worth remembering that its the returns from an approach that Wenger adopted before most managers he is competing with were even at their respective clubs and hasnt actually worked yet!

    Its also worth remembering that they havent actually won anything.

    Wat if ye dont win any trophy for the next couple of years? will the approach then be judged as a failure? A glorious failure? a la Keegans Newcastle? Seriously.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,692 ✭✭✭✭OPENROAD


    Mr Alan wrote: »
    Arsenal have definately spent less. No denying that. And i reckon that Wenger in among the top managers of all time. My post was just in relation to the attitude Arsenal fans take sometimes of how good their young players are. Its worth remembering that its the returns from an approach that Wenger adopted before most managers he is competing with were even at their respective clubs and hasnt actually worked yet!

    Its also worth remembering that they havent actually won anything.

    Wat if ye dont win any trophy for the next couple of years? will the approach then be judged as a failure? A glorious failure? a la Keegans Newcastle? Seriously.

    Fair point, we really do have to win something, although to be fair,this crop of kids are just starting to mature now,so now really is their time,don't think he can be judged on the last couple of seasons,it is this season and next imo.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,372 ✭✭✭✭Mr Alan


    I agree that they are starting to mature now and, in theory, the skies are the limit for them.

    You need them all, or at least the best ones to stay though . The likes of Fabregas will definately be under serious pressure for big money moves to Real/Barca/etc over the next couple of years.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,617 ✭✭✭✭PHB


    I don't agree that they have to win something to be a success. I think challenging in against Chelsea and United is a success. Even if they drop off this year towards they end, their season has been an immense success. They can only get better. Wenger has kept Arsenal in the top 4 barely spending a penny. It is incredible.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,692 ✭✭✭✭OPENROAD


    PHB wrote: »
    I don't agree that they have to win something to be a success. I think challenging in against Chelsea and United is a success. Even if they drop off this year towards they end, their season has been an immense success. They can only get better. Wenger has kept Arsenal in the top 4 barely spending a penny. It is incredible.


    To be fair though I think the players will see it as a failure not to win anythig in the next couple of seasons,but don't think that will happen, I honestly believe we will win the premiership this season.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 30,746 ✭✭✭✭Galvasean


    Remember Arsenal reached the Champions league final only two seasons ago (a silver champions league medal for the likes of Fabregas and Flamaini must be worth more than winning a domestic cup). Its not like Arsenal have been underperforming recently. On the other hand we could really use some proper silverware in the trophy cabinet (the Amsterdam tournament and Emirates Cup dont count!)


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