goals/minutes on pitch stats

Mr Alan · 31-12-2007 03:23AM

would if i could

Attractive Nun · 31-12-2007 03:26AM

Not to turn this into yet another Ronaldo debate (ok I'm not helping at all in that regard, maybe there should just be a Ronaldo thread?), but I don't think you can say that Ronaldo's attitude 'stinks' in the same way as Ronaldinho's, or (fat)Ronaldo's, or Eto'o's. OK, you can certainly criticise his diving and maybe even dislike his apparent arrogance - I for one, although I'd differ from most in getting the impression that Ronaldo seems actually quite a nice guy, would concede those points - but his attitude to football in general must surely be admired.

He clearly puts a lot of work into his game, tries as hard as he can to win and as far as I can tell tries as hard as he can all the time. Sure, he doesn't track back that much but he's not supposed to. Even his diving and his arrogance, you could argue, are all connected to a desire to do his best for his team. And more than that, Ronaldo is a player who is fouled, abused and derided more than most but who, despite all that, picks himself up time and again and just keeps on playing his own football, without becoming a dirty player in the slightest. Remember when Michael Ball stamped on him in the Manchester derby last season? Instead of reacting against Ball, he played on, outplayed him, and eventually won a penalty from Ball. Which he scored, winning the game 1-0. Whatever about Ronaldo 'annoying' people, I don't think you can accuse him of having a bad attitude when it comes to football. I'd say the same of Gerrard, who annoys me much more than Ronaldo (no doubt due to club loyalties), but whose attitude on the pitch I can admire as much as Ronaldo's.

So, yeah, get more assists Ronaldo, you waster!

LeixlipRed · 31-12-2007 04:47AM

Attractive Nun wrote: »

Sure, he doesn't track back that much but he's not supposed to

Have you ever played football? I play right full and when a winger doesn't track back it leaves you totally exposed at the back. Every winger has to track back

Mr Alan · 31-12-2007 04:56AM

Look, this is my last post in defense of that portugeese clown. BUT, he didnt track back last year too and Utd won the league and got to the semi final of the CL (their manager doesnt have the tactical genius needed to get to more than 1 European final a decade!

), so they/and him are obviously doing something right.

case closed.ronaldo is ****.Utd are ****. Liverpool are great. Kewell is great.

kryogen · 31-12-2007 04:59AM

LeixlipRed wrote: »

Hmmm, I didn't extract it from the OP. How could I have? Try soccerbase.com. And my point is Ronaldo scores goals against sub standard opposition and never in the games that win titles. Pretty obvious from my post I would have thought

bull****

winning against the weak teams is what wins titles, so if he scored a hattrick everytime we played liverpoo,chelsea and arsenal he would be world class, regardless of how he plays against the rest? great logic

Mr Alan · 31-12-2007 05:01AM

Obviously you didnt hear Kryogen, the case has been closed

kryogen · 31-12-2007 05:04AM

ha sorry, just saw this thread now, was annoyed by the guy having a serious personal problem with the guy and letting that cloud his common sense from telling his brain that he can play a bit of ball. ludicrous statement to make, not world class cause he never scored v chelsea.....

Mr Alan · 31-12-2007 05:06AM

sure even Pennant has scored against Chelsea?! how would that make him world class?!

kryogen · 31-12-2007 05:13AM

my point exaclty! what makes chelsea the yard stick for whether a premiership player is world class or not

lol joke tbh

Mr Alan · 31-12-2007 05:16AM

That was Pennants only goal though

*at least he has some assists though!

Guy:Incognito · 31-12-2007 11:16AM

Mr Alan wrote: »

Ronaldo is quality. World class-Yes.

I dont no. Was it not decided on the world classs thread that there is no such thing and if there was the requirements would be so stringeent that god (if he was any good at football) would'nt qualify? Think you have to be from Brazil , Argentina and Andorra and have won a world cup with each as well as the top league in every league in the world, twice.

dc69 · 31-12-2007 11:37AM

as a liverpool fan,i rate ronaldo at the moment as one of the best players in the world if not the best,imo messi and kaka are doing it in easier leagues.if you look at that messi wondergoal,there is not a chance he would have done that in the premier league!
in fairness,if kaka played in the premier league i would say he would be as good but while he plays in italy i think ronaldo should be rated as highly.messi i dont think would adapt to the premier league(i could be wrong!)the only thing is that maybe ronaldo should put on more performances when its big time,like cl etc,we havent seen him do that much but i have no doubt he will.my top 3 in the world for the title just gone

imo the italian league and spanish league are easier for flair players like these to shine and put huge performances in,the premier league is much harder

1-kaka(is 1 becuase he puts on big performances when it matters cl,ronaldo for me hasnt done it.)
2-ronaldo
3-messi

although i would glady have any of the 3 at the pool

Tusky · 31-12-2007 11:48AM

How did this turn into a Ronaldo debate ? Hes a winger and hes top scorer in the league, outscoring some of the best strikers in the world...AND HES A WINGER. Who cares if he only has 1 assist if hes banging in 17 goals before the new year. The fact that he rarely scores against bigger teams shouldnt bother utd fans, its much more difficult for a winger to play their game against better defenses. How many wingers can you think of that regularly score against the better teams ?

And shut up with the world class debate..! Thought that was done & dusted. Everyone has different definitions of the word and very few people actually watch enough world football to make those claims.

astrofool · 31-12-2007 01:54PM

I don't know how they count the assists, but he set up Tevez against Derby via the free kick + the Arsenal assist.

Attractive Nun · 31-12-2007 02:19PM

LeixlipRed wrote: »

Have you ever played football? I play right full and when a winger doesn't track back it leaves you totally exposed at the back. Every winger has to track back

In a standard 4-4-2 maybe, but Ronaldo doesn't really play that wide all the time, and Rooney and Tevez constantly track back. If Ronaldo did too, there would be no one up front to receive the ball. Plus, I have not noticed United becoming exposed at all on the right side of defence, even though Brown is undoubtedly the weak link in our defence. Ferguson has obviously sorted out tactics to deal with this problem without Ronaldo having to track back. In any case, I very much doubt SAF would stand for Ronaldo not tracking back if he was told to.

But on another issue, I wonder who gets most of United's assists if Ronaldo hardly gets any?

Helix · 31-12-2007 02:22PM

Shamrok wrote: »

I think it actually is true. The Prem fantasy footy site has him down for one anyway (vs Derby) Fabregas 10, Petrov 8, and Gerrard 7 are the highest ranked midfielders.

you can add young to that with 9

fpl has him down as a forward but hes a midfielder as everyone knows

Fuzzy_Dunlop · 31-12-2007 03:00PM

Tusky wrote: »

How did this turn into a Ronaldo debate ? Hes a winger and hes top scorer in the league, outscoring some of the best strikers in the world...AND HES A WINGER. Who cares if he only has 1 assist if hes banging in 17 goals before the new year. The fact that he rarely scores against bigger teams shouldnt bother utd fans, its much more difficult for a winger to play their game against better defenses. How many wingers can you think of that regularly score against the better teams ?

I wouldn't really class him as a winger really as he only has offensive duties(and does these very, very well!) but really doesn't contribute anything else towards the team as the vast majority of wingers do. So I'd say it's only right to class him as a forward

Tusky · 31-12-2007 03:09PM

playa3 wrote: »

I wouldn't really class him as a winger really as he only has offensive duties(and does these very, very well!) but really doesn't contribute anything else towards the team as the vast majority of wingers do. So I'd say it's only right to class him as a forward

He plays on the right or left wing. Hes a winger that doesn't defend. Still a winger.

Melion · 31-12-2007 03:09PM

I like how Gerrard and Fabregas have the same stats yet people have been saying Gerrard has been ****e this season and Fabregas has been amazing.

Tusky · 31-12-2007 03:13PM

Melion wrote: »

I like how Gerrard and Fabregas have the same stats yet people have been saying Gerrard has been ****e this season and Fabregas has been amazing.

Yeah, noticed that as well. In fairness, Liverpool fans haven't been saying Gerrard has been ****. Hes having a great season. They are both on 11 assists as well.

Melion · 31-12-2007 03:17PM

Tusky wrote: »

Yeah, noticed that as well. In fairness, Liverpool fans haven't been saying Gerrard has been ****. Hes having a great season. They are both on 11 assists as well.

You should have seen the posts in the liverpool thread about 2 months ago from our own "fans" saying he should be sold, dropped, doesnt want it anymore etc.

Mr Alan · 31-12-2007 04:07PM

Gerrard is always gonna split the camp. Some people just dont like him.

And fans of opposing clubs just dont like to admit Liverpool have one of the top players in world football

PHB · 31-12-2007 04:20PM

They did, one of the greatest players i've ever seen play, McManaman

That said, how anyone can say Gerrard is **** is beyond me. My problem with Gerrard is that imo he is a very flawed player and probably not good for Liverpool. However I have seen evidence in the past few games that he is becoming more mature, and starting to return to his old style of play before he became completely relied on for everything.

People keep moving the goal posts on Ronaldo. I don't think people will ever shut up unless he scores a hattrick in the CL final. Ronaldo has few assists this season, mostly because United have been playing relatively poorly imo. Lots of his assists last season came from Saha who hasn't scored. Last season he got 14 in the league.
As for the whole big game thing, let's look at this season:

He's played Liverpool(A) Arsenal(A) and Chelsea(A),
Against Chelsea he was poor
He's scored one against Arsenal. Was quite good, not great.
He played relatively poorly against Liverpool. That said, so did every other attacking player on the pitch. He was doubled marked by Mascherano the entire game, until the very end, when he was put up front. When he went up front, he made two very good runs, one of which he set up Rooney for an easy finish which he missed.

Oh yeh btw, he's also scored 5 goals in the CL this season, but that's not the top level either. It's all about the knockout stages!
It's not like he set up the goal against Lille that got us into the quarter finals.
It's not like he got a brace and an assist against Roma last season, sure it's not like they are that good, only 2nd in Serie A.
Sure it's not like he scored the opening goal against AC Milan in the first leg.
It's not like in the 6 knockout games, he scored 3 goals and and got 2 assists.

Oh yeh, in international football he's shocking too. 20 goals in 51 games. Shocking stuff

Until he scores a hattrick in the CL final, people will still say he doesn't do it in big games.

Helix · 31-12-2007 04:21PM

tbh i think its the ineptities of the rest of the liverpool team that make gerrard look so good a lot of the time

Helix · 31-12-2007 04:23PM

PHB wrote: »

Until he scores a hattrick in the CL final, people will still say he doesn't do it in big games.

i dont really buy into this "you absolutely need to do it in big games" mentality myself

in big games against top opposition a world class player is likely to find himself the focus of interest for 2 or even 3 top class defenders, where the player proves his worth in these situations is to draw his shadows around with him, creating space for other players to run into

a lot of people cant see that when theyre watching games and just assume that the player has "gone missing"

Mr Alan · 31-12-2007 04:28PM

PHB: Ronaldo was not double marked by Mascherano.

eirebhoy · 31-12-2007 04:33PM

Attractive Nun wrote: »

That's a bit strange he's only gotten 1 assist, he was getting loads last season.

To be honest, he's no Fabregas or Totti when it comes to creativity with a pass.

His assists this season and last:

[B]Team               Goalscorer  Description[/B]
Derby (h)          Giggs       Shot parried
S.Lisbon (h)       Tevez       Mis-hit shot

Sheff Utd (h)      Carrick     Short pass
Roma (h)           Carrick     Short pass
Blackburn (h)      Carrick     Made his way into the box and cut the ball back
Blackburn (h)      Park        Friedel failed to hold a shot from a freekick
Bolton (h)         Park        Cut-back after making his way into the danger area
Bolton (h)         Rooney      Simple through ball after a fabulous flick from Rooney
Bolton (h)         Park        Jaaskelainen failed to hold a shot
Lille (h)          Larsson     Fantastic cross from the left wing
Reading (h)        Carrick     Simple pass for a typical Carrick 25 yard strike
Tottenham (a)      Scholes     Low and hard cross from the right
Watford (h)        Rooney      Excellent chipped through ball
Newcastle (a)      Scholes     Short pass
Reading (h)        Solskjaer   Low cross from the wing
Man City (h)       Rooney      Low Cross/through ball from deep on the right
Benfica (h)        Giggs       Excellent cross from the right
Middlesbrough (a)  Saha        Went down easily for a penalty
Copenhagen (h)     O'Shea      Corner
Newcastle (h)      Solskjaer   Shot rebounded
Benfica (a)        Saha        Forward pass to Saha for a goal outside the box
Tottenham (h)      Giggs       Parried shot by Robinson from a freekick

6 of those assists were shots. 4 or 5 were just basic passes that me or you could make. I'm talking about 3 or 4 yard passes for 25-30 yard goals.

So he hasn't actually set up a goal through a good technical pass/cross since March. Maybe he was playing more as a winger then as he seemed to set up a few goals with crosses from the wing?

His most creative assist would be that chipped through ball for Rooney. That'd be the only time he "split the defence" with a pass in the last season and a half. I'd be expecting much more through balls from him considering the positions he gets in and the pacy strikers in the team.

He's the best in the world at beating players though and because of that and his tremendous goalscoring record he's certainly world class.

lordgoat · 31-12-2007 04:36PM

Meh, i'll gladly have him not score ever against Chelsea and him keep playing like he has been this season and last.

If he'd scored the penalty against West Ham it may have been enough to win the game and that would have been yet another game where he bailed his team out. It's these kind of performances that win trophies in my opinion.

(I am in no way blaming him for the result ,against West Ham he was prob the best Man u player)

Mikeyt086 · 31-12-2007 04:38PM

Ronalds's attitude is bad? He doesnt track back because he cant defend, Rooney can so he does. Giggs used to not track back but now he does. Ronaldo is the first person to arrive to training and the last to leave. On he day his dad died he played a qualifier match against Russia because he wanted to honor is father and didnt want to let his country down. Thats some attitude to football in my opinion.

The difference this season i would say is that the team are looking to him for goals more after last season. And at the very top of the goalscoring charts would suggest that he is delivering.

He would have about 20 assists if Tevez finished like a true poacher, but thats not his game and im not having a go at him, i love Tevez. United dont have a goal poacher like Van Nistelrooy. Chelsea have Drogba, Liverpool have Torres and Arsenal have Adebayor that the team look to supply for but United dont, so Ronaldo has taken the job on himself.

PHB · 31-12-2007 04:43PM

Ronaldo is not a defense splitting passer, although he can do it. Hell he did it against West Ham for Giggs. His gets behind defenses, which is why most of his assists come from short passes coming in from the wings or crosses.

Mr. Alan, what game were you watching? Every time Ronaldo got the ball he was instantly crowded out, instantly. Not just by Mascherano, but by Gerrard as well.

goals/minutes on pitch stats

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