O2 Shop, Consumer Rights Question

mcR · 29-09-2007 5:55pm #1

Hi, I'm hoping someone can help me here

I own a creative zen vision m mp3 player that I got as a present, which was bought in the o2 store. I have the receipt and everything else I need for the mp3 player

My mp3 player from o2 had a problem with the screen and is still under its One-year warranty (it was bought in Feb 07).

Previously I owned the same zen model which I bought in dixions, this one had broken and I was giving a new one and then again it broke so I just asked for my money back and they gave me it back with no problem

I got my current zen as a present and wouldn't have bought it again but kept it, hoping for the best

Now my third model of the mp3 is broke and I definitely don't want to get another new one. I would just like my money back because the mp3 is just too much trouble

I thought id give you the history of my situation before I asked the question. I brought the mp3 player back to the o2 shop asking for my money back and they said that they have to ask head office if I can still get a refund or all I can get is a repair or replacement. I told them that I know my rights and that if it's still under the warranty that I can ask for a refund if it’s faulty. They told me that because it's past six months that they don't have to give me a refund but they’re going to try anyway. I left it in on Wednesday (the 26th) and they told me that they would get back to me the next day, which they never did. I waited till Friday and I asked and they said they still haven’t heard back and they would ring me later that day. They never rang me again and I went in today (Saturday) and they still have no answer for me when they said it will be originally only going to be a day at the lastest

Now today they told me that they still have to hear back to see if they can try anyway but I’ve been reading up on the internet and can't find anything about a product being past six months and not being able to get a refund and can only see that if it's still under the warranty I can still get my money back. He said if there was a problem within 30 days I could get my money back but after that it's more complicated

So I'm asking is this true that after six months they don't have to give me a refund only a replacement, repair or credit note?

Thanks for any help and sorry for the long post, I'm just trying to be as clear as possible

Nightwish · 29-09-2007 6:27pm

Well in a former life I worked in customer services for a large retail chain which sold the likes of mp3's. If someones mp3 player broke after 6 months I would only offer a repair or replacement. Then again, I wouldnt mind the person getting another model or brand name mp3 for the same value, but thats cos I was nice

The store was under no obligation to refund the customer. They have a choice as to whether repair, replace or refund. We had the 30 day rule, whereby if something stopped working within 30 days, we would automatically offer the customer a refund.

Doctor DooM · 29-09-2007 6:39pm

mcR wrote:

I told them that I know my rights and that if it's still under the warranty that I can ask for a refund if it’s faulty.

Unfortunately sadly you do not! They are fully entitled to offer only repair or replacement.

Keep on asking for the refund and you may get somewhere, but sadly O2 are in the right here.

swingking · 29-09-2007 7:01pm

not necessarily so

According to the consumer rights association http://www.consumerassociation.ie/rights_retailers.html#yourfault

f goods are not of merchantable quality, you do not have to accept a repair. You can insist on a refund or a replacement.

also

f you are happy with a replacement product, take it. If not, remember you are not legally obliged to accept an exchange.

Doctor DooM · 29-09-2007 7:03pm

The company is entitled to repair or replace before a refund is offered.

jahalpin · 29-09-2007 8:30pm

The Mp3 player worked for 6 months before it broke, that would tend to suggest that it is not a defect in manufacturing. Are you sure that it is not you that is breaking the things through misuse or abuse?

Retailers are under no obligation to offer a refund because you decide that you want one, in fact any retailer that would actually give a refund to someone who has had the item for 6 months would be a bit mad and probably would not be in business for long. After this amount of time all the retailer is required to do is to send the item for repair, the manufacturer would then be able to tell them whether the item is faulty through a manufacturing defect or through misuse, as the shop has no way of knowing whether the item broke because you put it in water etc.

As for it being the 3rd one that you have acquired, that is irrelevant to O2 as they only sold the latest one.

chrislad · 29-09-2007 11:03pm

In all fairness, those ZEN's are ****e. I went through 3 with O2 before I got a my 4th, which I exchanged in Dixons for an iPod.

Others are correct re the refund issue. You're not entitled. Regardless of how many times you've had problems before, this is the first issue you've had with the product you got from O2.

mcR · 30-09-2007 1:46pm

Ummm guess I'll just have to accept a replacement, but knowing the zen it will break again and im back here again

Annoyingly it has been broken for a few months and not bothered me so if I had brought it back earlier I may not have even had this problem!

I was so sure I was right because I looked it up but after reading this I guess im wrong! The consumer rights seems so clear I thought they would of mentioned the rules for retail. To be fair at least they are trying to do it for me in o2

The defects that were wrong with my mp3 player are common ones, I’ve read about them all over the Internet from other zen owners and some even one this site so if o2 asked I could back it up with theses. I was told in dixions that creative know all about the defects and so do the people in the shops selling them and that’s why they never question a repair but it just annoys me that they know about theses problems and I cant get my money back

Thanks for the answers, even if it wasn't what I wanted to hear!

Nightwish · 30-09-2007 4:08pm

Well your first mistake was not acting immediately once the mp3 player stopped working. Your rights are diminished by delaying taking action. The shop can only act upon the date you cring it tho their attention, and not the statement that "It broke a few months ago". If the mp3 is a crap one, thats just hard luck. By telling O2 that other people on the internet have the same problem, they'll probably just laugh at you. As I said they can only act on your individual case. If it is case that the shop had numerous returns with the same problem, I would have imagined that the shop would do something about it. In my experience I found the iPod a lot more troublesome than the Zen. For every Zen that had a problem, we had at least 3 iPods returned.

mcR · 30-09-2007 8:07pm

I never told the shop that it broke a few months ago; it would be pointless because I couldn’t prove it

And I never told them about it being a common problem and I’ve read about it on the internet, I was only going to say it if they said that it wasn’t covered under the warranty. The screen is broke and I wasn't sure if that they would cover it but they did because it's a common problem

The annoying thing is that dixions gave me my money back straight away but that was after the second time it broke so I probably have it in my head that I can do the same in this situation but I can't because this is different

All I can do now is get the replacement and see what happens and I’m going to avoid getting a zen, and I can’t stand using a ipod!

jahalpin · 30-09-2007 9:44pm

mcR wrote:

I never told the shop that it broke a few months ago; it would be pointless because I couldn’t prove it

And I never told them about it being a common problem and I’ve read about it on the internet, I was only going to say it if they said that it wasn’t covered under the warranty. The screen is broke and I wasn't sure if that they would cover it but they did because it's a common problem

The annoying thing is that dixions gave me my money back straight away but that was after the second time it broke so I probably have it in my head that I can do the same in this situation but I can't because this is different

All I can do now is get the replacement and see what happens and I’m going to avoid getting a zen, and I can’t stand using a ipod!

How is the screen broken? Did it just stop working, or does it have lines through it etc?

I would have thought that any problems with the screen would be fairly obvious from the outset

mcR · 30-09-2007 10:00pm

The screen has lines going through it and it was just like that one day when I turned it on. They know about the problem and accept that it wasn't because I dropped it or anything , theirs many posts on fourms about this and it even happened to my zen before it and my friends zen too

It's fine for listening to music but for video it's useless but that didnt bother me so I waited till I got a new phone with a mp3 player on it so i wouldn't be left without a mp3 player

It's not a issue of me breaking it with o2, that was clear from the start because it said I wasn't the first one to bring it back for that reason

jahalpin · 30-09-2007 11:17pm

I know that legally the contract is between you and the retailer, but sometimes you are better to goto the manufacturer directly.

I have heard that Creative are pretty good to deal and they will probably replace the Zen with a new one without too much hastle

mcR · 01-10-2007 12:17am

Yeah iv'e heard that creative are really fair dealing with these problems and O2 are good too so no matter what happens i'll get a replacement or repair

Sam Vimes · 01-10-2007 8:17am

Theres nothing more annoying than a customer who says they know their rights. 99% of people who say that don't in fact know them. A customer that claimed to be a lawyer once said that to me and what he was saying was a load of crap.

i'm glad you've been set straight OP

Gillo · 01-10-2007 2:42pm

Nightwish wrote:

In my experience I found the iPod a lot more troublesome than the Zen. For every Zen that had a problem, we had at least 3 iPods returned.

I've never actually counted the levels of returns I get back where I work, but while I do get more Ipod's returned where I work, if you actually look at the ratio of how many units you sell as opposed to how many you get back, chances are you will find that you get more creative than ipod's back.

That said if there is an issue with the return Creative are generally better at resolving it.

mcR · 01-10-2007 6:06pm

Commander Vimes wrote:

Theres nothing more annoying than a customer who says they know their rights. 99% of people who say that don't in fact know them. A customer that claimed to be a lawyer once said that to me and what he was saying was a load of crap.

i'm glad you've been set straight OP

Yeah I'm glad I came here to check everything out before I became annoying, I didn't start claiming I know my rights, I asked 02 about what I read off the consumers rights website and then they explained it. It's rude to say it's annoying, if we don't check our rights someday we will get ripped off. The comment probably wasn't aimed at me but if a person worked in a retail shop it's their job to answer the questions whether their annoying or not

The annoying thing is that every time I go back they don't know anything and keep saying ill ring you later today and never do when they keep promising an answer for me

Creative are very fair with these matters, is there an actual creative shop?

Sam Vimes · 02-10-2007 10:13am

mcR wrote:

Yeah I'm glad I came here to check everything out before I became annoying, I didn't start claiming I know my rights, I asked 02 about what I read off the consumers rights website and then they explained it.

In your first post you posted that you said you knew your rights and then said you had a right that you did not in fact have. If thats not what you said then fair enough

mcR wrote:

It's rude to say it's annoying, if we don't check our rights someday we will get ripped off.

It is annoying. If i'm trying to explain the policy to someone and they keep telling me they don't have to accept it because of imaginary rights they think they have its very hard to deal with them

and by all means check your rights. If you check your rights before going into the store, rather than assuming you know them, then you won't be one of those people. I'm not saying you are, i mean generally

mcR wrote:

The annoying thing is that every time I go back they don't know anything and keep saying ill ring you later today and never do when they keep promising an answer for me

Now that is annoying

DJ WIPEOUT · 02-10-2007 11:45am

Nightwish wrote:

Well your first mistake was not acting immediately once the mp3 player stopped working. Your rights are diminished by delaying taking action. The shop can only act upon the date you cring it tho their attention, and not the statement that "It broke a few months ago". If the mp3 is a crap one, thats just hard luck. By telling O2 that other people on the internet have the same problem, they'll probably just laugh at you. As I said they can only act on your individual case. If it is case that the shop had numerous returns with the same problem, I would have imagined that the shop would do something about it. In my experience I found the iPod a lot more troublesome than the Zen. For every Zen that had a problem, we had at least 3 iPods returned.

Before dismaying the Zen let's not forget that iPods have a longer history of malfunctions than the Zen hands down (as this poster has mentioned) - unbeknownst to the masses who follow the marketing brainwash of Apple!

I also believe that non computer savvy users (of which there are many!) don't understand the difference between flash based and hard drive based devices and think nothing of throwing/dropping the hard drive based devices around and still expect them to work - madness!

mcR · 02-10-2007 1:36pm

Sorry Commander Vimes I can see how I’m being confusing!. I did say the words I know my rights in my post, I just used that phrase to avoiding a long sentence of me saying I said to the o2 guy " I thought that I was able to..... And so on" and I just shortened the post by saying I said I know my rights, I should of been more clear sorry and now I know that I was wrong about it!

Yeah I can see how that can be annoying if the people just won't accept it, i didn't argue with the guy because I knew it wasn't his fault but I guess some people don't see it that way and keep arguing which is annoying

DJ WIPEOUT, I know what you mean, people are a lot less careful because they either don't care or don't know any better and think they can do whatever to player and expect it to work. Yeah apple like you to think that they always have a best quality when they actually don't, not to mention that ipods don't have radios as standard and you have to use itunes, I hate apple!

Anyway I heard back from 02 and I didn't get the refund and they talked to creative and their getting me a new one so that's the end of it I guess! awh well, Zen number 4

Sam Vimes · 02-10-2007 1:46pm

Apparently you can use other programs with ipods. If i recall correctly there's a program called ephpod and an add on for winamp too

mcR · 02-10-2007 1:52pm

Yeah but you still have to convert your mp3's using whatever program and then transfer them while on most other mp3 players all you have to do is copy and paste. I would have got a ipod if it wasn't for that and having no radio. Why apple don't cop onto this I'll never know

DJ WIPEOUT · 02-10-2007 2:20pm

mcR wrote:

Sorry Commander Vimes I can see how I’m being confusing!. I did say the words I know my rights in my post, I just used that phrase to avoiding a long sentence of me saying I said to the o2 guy " I thought that I was able to..... And so on" and I just shortened the post by saying I said I know my rights, I should of been more clear sorry and now I know that I was wrong about it!

Yeah I can see how that can be annoying if the people just won't accept it, i didn't argue with the guy because I knew it wasn't his fault but I guess some people don't see it that way and keep arguing which is annoying

DJ WIPEOUT, I know what you mean, people are a lot less careful because they either don't care or don't know any better and think they can do whatever to player and expect it to work. Yeah apple like you to think that they always have a best quality when they actually don't, not to mention that ipods don't have radios as standard and you have to use itunes, I hate apple!

Anyway I heard back from 02 and I didn't get the refund and they talked to creative and their getting me a new one so that's the end of it I guess! awh well, Zen number 4

mcR, sorry for the bit of a rant and I'm glad you understood it wasn't aimed at you personally! It's great to hear you have managed to get somewhere in the end. Spot on with just some of the problems the iPods are known for aswell!!!

I put my 60GB Zen V M (bought on eBay) through it's paces with approx 800 music videos, 1000's of songs, radio recordings, 100's of holiday snaps etc. I owned the 30 GB before that and the Micro before that (all have had the latest firmware flashes applied to them over time) but I've never had a problem with any of them and cannot go without having a Zen!

Hopefully you'll get to experience the 'Creative create sound' slogan I use when trying to convince people to go with the Zen!

Gillo · 02-10-2007 3:32pm

mcR wrote:

Yeah I can see how that can be annoying if the people just won't accept it, i didn't argue with the guy because I knew it wasn't his fault but I guess some people don't see it that way and keep arguing which is annoying

Why can't I get customers like you???

mcR · 02-10-2007 5:55pm

No prob DJ WIPEOUT i didn't think it was aimmed at me at all!

Gillo Ha I prob wasn't that nice!

O2 Shop, Consumer Rights Question

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