Advertisement
Help Keep Boards Alive. Support us by going ad free today. See here: https://subscriptions.boards.ie/.
https://www.boards.ie/group/1878-subscribers-forum

Private Group for paid up members of Boards.ie. Join the club.
Hi all, please see this major site announcement: https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058427594/boards-ie-2026

Perhaps a case of Sauerkraut and.......

  • 17-09-2007 02:06PM
    #1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,290 ✭✭✭


    Have we lost our sense of humour or is this too close to the truth?

    Copyright 2007 The Irish Times: All Rights Reserved:The Irish Times

    September 17, 2007 Monday

    SECTION: IRELAND; Other Stories; Pg. 4

    LENGTH: 592 words

    HEADLINE: Disquiet over German ambassador's remarks

    BYLINE: Miriam Donohoe, Political Staff

    BODY:


    The Department of Foreign Affairs has confirmed it expressed its strong disquiet to the German ambassador for remarks he made to a group of visiting German industrialists in which he described Ireland as a "coarse place" where hospital waiting lists were chaotic and everyone drove '06 and '07 cars.

    The department's secretary general, Dermot Gallagher, telephoned the ambassador, Christian Pauls, last week and told him the unscripted comments he made on September 7th were "misinformed and inaccurate".

    A department spokesman confirmed to The Irish Times yesterday that Mr Gallagher was asked by the Minister for Foreign Affairs, Dermot Ahern, to tell the ambassador of his unhappiness at the "unbalanced picture he painted of Ireland" to the 80 businessmen, all members of the German Federation of Buying and Marketing Groups, at Clontarf Castle in Dublin.

    Fine Gael MEP Gay Mitchell, who was at the event, said he was shocked at what he heard.

    "The ambassador should grow up. What he said was very undiplomatic and his contribution was somewhere between resentment and spite," he said. "He should not get away with what he said. I was totally taken aback."

    However, Mr Mitchell said he would not go as far as calling for Mr Pauls to make an apology.

    The press attaché at the German embassy in Dublin, Reinold Herber, told The Irish Times yesterday he was unable to contact the ambassador.

    "I cannot say if he regrets his comments as I have not spoken to him about them. Sometimes he tends to be ironic and maybe they were meant to be ironic comments. He is a nice and polite man who is also a witty man.

    "I don't think he would insult the Irish people with his remarks. That would not be his intention," he added, and said that he did not know if Mr Pauls intended to apologise for his remarks.

    Mr Pauls was due to introduce speakers, including Mr Mitchell, at the opening of the meeting with the German businessmen. He spoke in German to the gathering and his comments were translated into English for the small number of Irish people there, including Mr Mitchell.

    During his address, the ambassador referred to Ireland's wealth, saying Ministers of State earn more that the German chancellor, and 20 per cent of the population were public servants.

    In a reference to negotiations over hospital consultant contracts, he said doctors who were offered salaries of EUR 200,000 a year had described the salary as "Mickey Mouse money". Mr Mitchell said last night they were the only words the ambassador said in English and that the audience laughed at the comments.

    Mr Mitchell said Mr Pauls also criticised the Government's immigration policy, saying Ireland learned nothing from Germany's experiences. He told a story about attending the National Concert Hall when an announcement was made for the owner of a 93D-registered car to move it. He said no one moved as all Irish cars are '06 and '07.

    He said that US visitors had stopped coming to Ireland because of the heavy traffic and that Ireland has a bleak time in the past due to the Famine and had a history "sadder than Poland". Mr Pauls said a house had sold in Clontarf for over EUR 20 million and one could buy a skyscraper for that in Frankfurt.

    He left the hotel as soon as he finished speaking. Mr Mitchell, who spoke after Mr Pauls, told the audience he would have had more respect for what he said if he had made comments about the Government rather than about Irish people. He added Mr Pauls' view of Ireland might have been different if he had been here when the country was poorer.

    LOAD-DATE: September 17, 2007


«1

Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,030 ✭✭✭✭Cuddlesworth


    Can somebody summarize in bullet points for me? Thats way to long for AH.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,934 ✭✭✭Wossack


    Meh, doesnt sound that bad to me... pretty accurate actually imo

    guess you had to be there


  • Moderators, Music Moderators Posts: 25,885 Mod ✭✭✭✭Doctor DooM


    German man tells other rich German people Ireland has rubbish Health service(true) and everyone has to have a flash car (also trueish.)

    Slow news day means paper makes a thing out of it.

    Did I miss anything?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,102 ✭✭✭✭Kintarō Hattori


    krazy_8s wrote:
    Can somebody summarize in bullet points for me? Thats way to long for AH.
    Attention span of a gnat eh? Really, it's NOT that long. You'll have it read in two minutes.


  • Hosted Moderators Posts: 16,186 ✭✭✭✭Maple


    The man spoke the truth, whats offensive about that? :confused:


  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 81,060 ✭✭✭✭biko


    All true


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 37,214 ✭✭✭✭Dudess


    Exactly. It's pitiful of people to get offended.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,726 ✭✭✭qwertz


    OP, how do you connect Wienerschnitzel with Germany?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,369 ✭✭✭✭ejmaztec


    Never was a truer word spoke.

    Seems that the only ones offended were the vastly overpaid and under-achieving "higher:rolleyes:" echelon of Irish society.

    The reason why nobody got up to claim their 93 registered car, was because the person who had owned it, had to sell it to get the money to buy a ticket to get into the National Concert Hall.

    As for the "coarse", that's also fair enough. You can take the man out of the country, but you can't take the country out of the man. There are a lot of self-made yokels mincing around with huge wads in high places.

    We should thank the Germans for their continued support.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,290 ✭✭✭ircoha


    qwertz wrote:
    OP, how do you connect Wienerschnitzel with Germany?
    You are correct: they pre-date the Prussian Empire so have amended the title.:cool:


  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,804 ✭✭✭Setun


    The truths listed by the honest german above are but a few of the reasons that I want to cut up my passport and move to a foreign country.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,555 ✭✭✭Wook


    I think he was fairly polite and very true


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,564 ✭✭✭✭whiskeyman


    where hospital waiting lists were chaotic

    Germany: Don't mention the war

    Ireland: Don't mention the wards


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,323 ✭✭✭Hitchhiker's Guide to...


    The problem is that he was speaking to German business people who wanted to invest in Ireland and create jobs here. They're probably unlikely to invest now - so understandably people are a bit pissed off.

    Also, can't imagine that Irish ambasadors would be that rude when talking about the country they are based in. Even if, like the German ambasador, it is true. It's just basic diplomacy.

    Can you imagine the Irish ambasador to:

    America - saying that George Bush is as dumb as the back of a truck
    Saudi Arabia - saying that the country doesn't treat it's women right
    Germany - saying that the people are possibly the most boring people in the world


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,555 ✭✭✭Wook


    The problem is that he was speaking to German business people who wanted to invest in Ireland and create jobs here. They're probably unlikely to invest now - so understandably people are a bit pissed off.

    Also, can't imagine that Irish ambasadors would be that rude when talking about the country they are based in. Even if, like the German ambasador, it is true. It's just basic diplomacy.

    Can you imagine the Irish ambasador to:

    America - saying that George Bush is as dumb as the back of a truck
    Saudi Arabia - saying that the country doesn't treat it's women right
    Germany - saying that the people are possibly the most boring people in the world

    still the dude has a good point


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,323 ✭✭✭Hitchhiker's Guide to...


    yeh, but diplomats are meant to have training in not making good points, if those good points are insulting to the host country. Simply because it sours relationships and makes it harder for the two countries to work together.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,562 ✭✭✭cance


    eo980 wrote:
    Attention span of a gnat eh? Really, it's NOT that long. You'll have it read in two minutes.

    huh?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,484 ✭✭✭✭Stephen


    He should have mentioned our utterly **** roads and telecoms infrastructure too. Good point about our do-nothing junior ministers earning more than the German chancellor!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,369 ✭✭✭✭ejmaztec


    The problem is that he was speaking to German business people who wanted to invest in Ireland and create jobs here. They're probably unlikely to invest now - so understandably people are a bit pissed off.

    Also, can't imagine that Irish ambasadors would be that rude when talking about the country they are based in. Even if, like the German ambasador, it is true. It's just basic diplomacy.

    Can you imagine the Irish ambasador to:

    America - saying that George Bush is as dumb as the back of a truck
    Saudi Arabia - saying that the country doesn't treat it's women right
    Germany - saying that the people are possibly the most boring people in the world

    Nobody would be able to hear them say anything, not with their heads down tha back of the potential investors' pants!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,555 ✭✭✭Wook


    yeh, but diplomats are meant to have training in not making good points, if those good points are insulting to the host country. Simply because it sours relationships and makes it harder for the two countries to work together.

    even though your probably right, it feels refreshing to once inawhile see some straighttalking honest comments in politics.


  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,323 ✭✭✭Hitchhiker's Guide to...


    Stephen wrote:
    Good point about our do-nothing junior ministers earning more than the German chancellor!

    It's actually not a good point because it is wrong, and the German embassy have already apologized for that error.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 8,632 ✭✭✭darkman2


    I expected the 'he is telling the truth' rubbish here. Thats far from the point. He is the German Ambassador to Ireland and has to be very careful (like all ambassadors the world over) about what he says because diplomatically what he said sends out bizarre and troubling signals about the German governments attitude to Ireland (whom he represents)........for example it is no secret the Germans and French despise Irelands low corporate taxes with passion because they claim its cost them billions of euro's worth of investment. They cant compete on the same level as us because they are still principly socialist countries. So they are not all too impressed with little Ireland (an island of 4 mllion people) making an example of the deficiencies in their own countries. So every now and then they throw these fits (mostly its done more subtley in the EU) but it is not the place for an ambassador to tell industrialists who might want to invest here (right here in our own country) that basically we are all spoilt little brats that live in a kip of a country. If this was the British ambassador saying something like this many would look at it far more seriously then this ejjit.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,102 ✭✭✭✭Kintarō Hattori


    cance wrote:
    huh?
    I was referring to krazy 8s who wanted the post summarised as he was either to lazy or lacked the attention span to read it.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 9,346 ✭✭✭KTRIC


    I started work in Munich a couple of months ago and I have changed the views of many of my colleges of Ireland. Before I arrived they thought Ireland was all green fields, Guinness and Leprechauns and people knew everyone and you could leave your door open at night :eek: .

    I showed them the Irish news and they were appalled at what’s going on in Ireland at the moment. It’s only until you take a step back and look at Ireland from a distance you realise what I state the country is in. Sure everyone has nice cars and loads of money but under the glossy exterior the core is rotten.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,323 ✭✭✭Hitchhiker's Guide to...


    Totally agree with you KTRIC. I've recently moved from Dublin to Essex and couldn't be happier to be out of Dublin/Ireland.

    I think the problem is that an ambasador from another country shouldn't be making these comments.

    Think Darkman2 hit the nail on the head with his post in this regard.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,030 ✭✭✭✭Cuddlesworth


    eo980 wrote:
    I was referring to krazy 8s who wanted the post summarized ............

    Yada, Yada, Yada.

    *Germans start talking
    *Points out the obvious problems after Celtic Tiger (**** healthcare and flash material spending
    *Somebody took offense

    For anybody who is as busy as I was.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 9,346 ✭✭✭KTRIC


    Think Darkman2 hit the nail on the head with his post in this regard.

    Totally true, an ambassador for anything should be diplomatic and think about anything they say, if not then it should be well scripted.

    I've found Germans tend to say stuff in English completely off the cuff and not realise the consequences of the statement. Perhaps something is lost in the translation along the way. I've had things said to me here in work by a manager and if it was said in Ireland the manager would be reprimanded or sacked, but I have to let it roll off me rather than take it to hearth.

    In the case of the German ambassador he is in the public eye and anything he says is going to be public. I don't think he should be making unscripted statements to be honest, it’s very dangerous.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 28,787 ✭✭✭✭ScumLord


    He's a true friend of Ireland! He's the only one that cared enough to say something. The rest get a great kick watching us go off on another coke fueled frenzy of debauchery and poor spending but where would they be when the chips are down! Gone. Getting their kicks out of the next idiot. But not good ol Christian, he's a true friend with the balls to tell it to us like it is. "Ireland! You've lost it, your spending like a mad man and just look at your health care, it's a joke wrapped in a sham and I don't like telling you this but it has to be said.. Your coarse."

    Fair play to ya Christian!!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 602 ✭✭✭mickd


    Nobody has mentioned the most important part of the ambassador's speech, He said that Ireland's history was even more sad than Poland's. I am sure Polish and Jewish people would disagree. Regardless of the veracity of his comments it was a disgrace what he said and he should be recalled.


  • Advertisement
  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,290 ✭✭✭ircoha


    Totally agree with you KTRIC. I've recently moved from Dublin to Essex and couldn't be happier to be out of Dublin/Ireland.
    We saw u in the NR queue today on the telly:D :D

    Keep an eye out for Essex Girl


Advertisement
Advertisement