No Speaky de Engrish ?

stcatherine · 11-09-2007 03:31PM

Cad is anim an Atari Jaguar

ahemm .... yeah ...err and that too

Slow Motion · 11-09-2007 03:32PM

axer wrote:

Is the problem here that the immigrants are asking or that there are some stupid Irish people in the immigrant council of Ireland wanting to offer? Let those idiots go off and teach the immigrants themselves out of their own pocket if they want.

The problem here is fcuking dogooders looking for ways to waste our taxes and the next oppertunity to call us all racists !

watna · 11-09-2007 03:39PM

Rozabeez wrote:

"Yu Ming Is Ainm Dom"

Thank You.... *me goes off now to search for it!*

watna · 11-09-2007 03:39PM

Stupid Double Post... I have shaky hands!

robinph · 11-09-2007 03:42PM

No if you come here that's your responsibility

Rozabeez wrote:

"Yu Ming Is Ainm Dom"

Part One
Part Two

Rozabeez · 11-09-2007 03:42PM

Depends on the circumstance

http://www.atomfilms.com/film/name_yu_ming.jsp

That was fantastic.

gurramok · 11-09-2007 03:43PM

Depends on the circumstance

Maybe have a poll on this OP?

When Rome, do what the Romans do..

odyssey06 · 11-09-2007 03:53PM

Depends on the circumstance

Laylah Incalculable Jukebox wrote:

once they teach them all to speak english, we should start speaking irish! that will show them!

Better idea. Anyone who wants to come to Ireland has to be fluent in gaeilge. That should cut down the numbers

First problem with this proposal, define 'immigrant'. Does a Polish person coming here for 12 months count as an immigrant? How about a Spanish or Chinese student over here for the summer to attend English lessons?

Second problem with this proposal, there are many issues affecting people coming to Ireland from abroad - given the global status of the English language, that isn't one of them.
If someone wants to become a citizen of the state, then they should be able to speak one of the official languages - English or Irish. The least they can do to demonstrate their commitment is learn a language - at their own time and expense.

Seriously though, the Immigrant Council of Ireland doesn't have a ******* clue.

Slow Motion · 11-09-2007 03:58PM

gurramok wrote:

Maybe have a poll on this OP?

When Rome, do what the Romans do..

Could do ! If someone tells me how to change the thread to include one !

Edit : Figured it out

tameagdul · 11-09-2007 04:00PM

I have lived and worked in countries where there have been large groups of Irish people that couldn't speak the local language. In many cases government / local organisations took it upon themselves to offer classes on their language. It helped the immigrants (of which I was one) to integrate and to enjoy their time in the country. I always considered it a nice gesture.

watna · 11-09-2007 04:02PM

Rozabeez wrote:

http://www.atomfilms.com/film/name_yu_ming.jsp

That was fantastic.

Definitely, I'd forgotten how good it was, thanks for the link!

Exit · 11-09-2007 04:15PM

Bambi wrote:

Why do you assume that i made that assumption?

Because it's what half your posts seem to be about.

TwoShedsJackson · 11-09-2007 04:28PM

Depends on the circumstance

Let them shag off and learn English at their own expense if they want to move to a mainly-English speaking country. Do you think if I moved to Poland or Romania the government there would be dying to give me free local language lessons?

Would they fu<k.

Anti · 11-09-2007 04:44PM

humanji wrote:

Ironically, you'll be paying for that. What they should do is tell them that they are teaching them English, but teach them Irish instead. That way we'll have thousands more speaking Irish and it'll be great for our heritage.

Foiled

Exit · 11-09-2007 05:03PM

tameagdul wrote:

I have lived and worked in countries where there have been large groups of Irish people that couldn't speak the local language. In many cases government / local organisations took it upon themselves to offer classes on their language. It helped the immigrants (of which I was one) to integrate and to enjoy their time in the country. I always considered it a nice gesture.

Out of curiosity, what countries?

biko · 11-09-2007 05:13PM

Irish classes should be free whereas English classes costs money.

It's be cool with a load of asylum seekers chatting away in Irish to some confused locals

dade · 11-09-2007 05:18PM

Depends on the circumstance

I went to live in Germany 10 years ago didn't see them teaching me their language. Like was said if they want to come here let sort out the language problems, and if they want to work let them have a good understanding of English. I went to a shop the other day and had to return something, the manager couldn't understand a word i was saying, he kept asking me the same question over and over. in the end he got frustrated and just gave me my money back.

Kintarō Hattori · 11-09-2007 05:28PM

Cad is anim an Atari Jaguar

dade wrote:

.....I went to a shop the other day and had to return something, the manager couldn't understand a word i was saying, he kept asking me the same question over and over. in the end he got frustrated and just gave me my money back.

What shop was that?

PHB · 11-09-2007 06:27PM

For a nation which sent most of it's sons abroad, I find our attitude to it now laughable.

Karl Hungus · 11-09-2007 06:33PM

Depends on the circumstance

PHB wrote:

For a nation which sent most of it's sons abroad, I find our attitude to it now laughable.

If past actions are an indication of what we should be doing now, then maybe we should be treating our immigrants worse? Because a lot of Irish people who emmigrated were treated horribly. Maybe we should hang signs in shop windows that say "No Blacks, No Dogs, No Poles"? Because that was the attitude back in the day. :rolleyes:

Honestly, we're living in the here and now, and just because something happened before does not make it a model for what should continue to happen. Even by your logic there, none of the people who've emmigrated were ever given free lessons by host nations, so your logic dictates that our 'attitude' now is perfectly correct.

PHB · 11-09-2007 06:47PM

The point I was making is that perhaps considering most Irish people have people who have emigrated in them, perhaps we would be a little more understanding of people who emigrate.

Rb · 11-09-2007 06:50PM

Depends on the circumstance

I'm unhappy as is that my tax money pays to house them in our prisons, pay their welfare etc.
Now my taxes should go to pay for classes for these ignorant f*cks who enter an English speaking country without a word of the language, so they can work here for a while, send the money out of the country and then (the majority) leave once it dries up?
No, f*ck the lot of them, English tests at the Port and those who fail get a rubber dingy and a paddle, and a tow out far enough so that they can't tell which direction the country is in. (I don't want my taxes going towards their flight/boat trip home).
The M50 remains incomplete, there's a shortage in schools for our kids, overcrowded classes etc and various other problems that our taxes would be better suited for.
I'm sure this post comes across as ignorant and possibly racist, but I actually didn't have a problem with imigrants in this country until I worked with Poles for a few months, and listened to them complain about our weather, the city and how "sh1t" the country is overall (according to them), disobeying the "Only English to be spoken in work" rule and having conversations amongst themselves in Polish when other Irish co-workers were around, so that they couldn't understand them, and keeping to themselves.
Let them come here, speak English unless in private, work and integrate into society, or get them the f*ck out of here because after so much segregation in this country in the past, we don't need more of it as we go into the future.

Karl Hungus · 11-09-2007 07:08PM

Depends on the circumstance

PHB wrote:

The point I was making is that perhaps considering most Irish people have people who have emigrated in them, perhaps we would be a little more understanding of people who emigrate.

"Understanding" immigrants does not mean "Bend over backwards to fill every need of" no matter what kind of spin you put on it.

stcatherine · 11-09-2007 07:47PM

Cad is anim an Atari Jaguar

PHB wrote:

The point I was making is that perhaps considering most Irish people have people who have emigrated in them, perhaps we would be a little more understanding of people who emigrate.

I emigrated with my family to the UK, did my ma and dad sign on the dole over there and insist on a council house ? no they didn't, they worked their asses off to provide for their children, and if we didn't already speak the language I guarantee we would have had to learn it.

The problem is not with the immigrants who come here willing to work, pay taxes and learn the language so they can integrate into our society, it's with those that think it's their god given right to get every handout the state will give them so they can go off and spend it on 20 ducks which they will then insist on slaughtering in the back yard of their council house because it's their bloody custom !!

11-09-2007 07:56PM

Market undersupplies english language classes. This has broader effects on society as it slows integration. ICI asks government to correct this market failure. The article doesn't mention free classes. Government action to correct market failures is pretty standard.

Did anyone read the article?

Irish_Nomad · 11-09-2007 09:30PM

rb_ie wrote:

I'm sure this post comes across as ignorant and possibly racist,

At least we agree on one thing.

I think state-assisted language classes would be a good idea. I've lived in several countries and private language classes tend to be expensive. Denmark is the only place I know where free language classes are available to foreign residents.

A large number of immigrants here are working in low paying jobs and probably sending money home to their families so paying for language classes would be out of the question for many. You say you want them to integrate but you don't want to help them to do it. That doesn't seem like a very logical position.

And just to comment on some of the other points you made :

1. There's a very good chance those "ignorant f*cks" already speak more languages than you do. Just because English isn't one of them is no reason to insult them.

2. You complain that they speak Polish amongst themselves. Come on. Do you imagine that a group of Irish lads working abroad would chat to each other in German or Polish or whatever ? Should we be banned from speaking English in public when we go away ?

3. They keep to themselves. After reading your post I don't blame them one little bit.

randylonghorn · 11-09-2007 09:37PM

Cad is anim an Atari Jaguar

Deleted User wrote:

Market undersupplies english language classes. This has broader effects on society as it slows integration. ICI asks government to correct this market failure. The article doesn't mention free classes. Government action to correct market failures is pretty standard.

Did anyone read the article?

Finally! I was getting more and more frustrated as I read down the thread ... delighted to see someone actually followed the damn link and read the thing!

Also ... I remember reading an article in the local paper in Gran Canaria last year, complaining because there were whole sections of the island where the majority of workers and residents were English or Irish, with most of them not speaking more than 10 words of Spanish and not having any interest in learning, either, because "enough people speak English, so we don't have to". I know other areas of Spain in particular where this is equally true.

On the other side of the coin, I know a Polish guy and a Lithuanian girl who came here within the last few years, who had some English coming, who have worked hard (and paid taxes) since they arrived, who made the effort in their own time to improve their English, and who have now started doing a part-time degree programme in the evening, which they pay full fees for in the exact same way as Irish part-time adult students.

My point? ... that it's not as clear-cut as some posters above would imply, that immigrants (economic or otherwise) come in all shapes and sizes, metaphorically speaking ... that yes, there are some chancers, who tend to be very visible; that there are others who come for a year or two to make some money (and probably to improve their English, in the same way that many young Irish people choose to work abroad for a while and improve their French, German, etc.); that there are others who plan to make a life here and work damn hard to improve their lot, and by doing so contribute to the economy and to civil society; and every shade in between.

And for the record, I do agree that economic migrants coming to Ireland should have at least some basic English before they come here, and I wouldn't argue that they should be provided with free classes at the taxpayer's expense. I would however argue that the government should take some responsibility, through the education system, for improving the availability of such classes, and for ensuring that they are affordable to those who are prepared to invest the time, energy, and yes, money, to improve their language skills and their employability. In the long run, such an approach would be to everyone's benefit.

The guy · 11-09-2007 09:48PM

watna wrote:

I actually saw a really funny video where a chinese guy wants to come to Ireland so looks up the language we speak here and sees its irish, so he learns Irish and when he comes here nobody can understand him, until he talks to a bloke on the pub in Irish and he sends him to the Gaeltacht. it was really funny but I can't find the linky! Anway, on-topic again... i think it's the own person's responsibility to have a working knowledge of the language they speak in the country they are emigrating too. i wouldn't expect another country to give me free lessons in their language.

I haven't read the whole thread so I'm sorry if I missed someone's post.

But I think it's called Yu ming is ainm dom.

randylonghorn · 11-09-2007 10:01PM

Cad is anim an Atari Jaguar

The guy wrote:

I haven't read the whole thread so I'm sorry if I missed someone's post.

But I think it's called Yu ming is ainm dom.

Expect an exasperated Rozabeez (and her dog) to be on your trail within minutes ...!

Exit · 11-09-2007 10:04PM

Great post, randylonghorn!

No Speaky de Engrish ?

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