Irish army ranger wing

alan_simon · 30-08-2007 05:32PM

http://www.military.ie/army/ranger/train.htm

Not a plethora of information, but it tells you a bit about them. I remember reading an article about the rangers, saying the were for mostly anti-terror operations, and there number was around the 125 mark. Can't for the life of me remember where i saw it though.

Nevyn · 30-08-2007 05:37PM

Dyflin wrote:

What's the score with not talking about the rangers?

There's a myriad of books and documentaries regarding the SAS and SEAL's just to name two other special forces. Why the secrecy surrounding our rangers?

'cos this is a bloody small country and information gets about easily.

Two Stripes · 30-08-2007 05:38PM

DublinWriter wrote:

While I do respect and admire those working in the Irish Defence Forces, there's something about the ARW that sits a little uneasy with me.

For starters they seem to be making a conscious effort to emulate the mystique of the British SAS through their use of secrecy.

For example, someone please correct me if I'm wrong on this, but the fact that they always conceal their faces at public functions is down to their own choice and not because of a GHQ standing order.

I also do remember that there was a bit of a kafuffle about 15 years ago when some politician came to award them with something or other and they insisted to donning the black balaclavas as their were press photographers present.

I've also heard that they've came first at some annual International competition for special forces units, beating even the US SEALS and British SAS, does anyone have any more information on this?

Where did you hear that they donned balaclavas when getting presented something? As for covering their faces when you are in a unit like that it's not really something that you wanna advertise now is it if you are likely to be doing undercover work?

Catcher86 · 30-08-2007 07:19PM

DublinWriter wrote:

For example, someone please correct me if I'm wrong on this, but the fact that they always conceal their faces at public functions is down to their own choice and not because of a GHQ standing order.

Well someone please correct me if I'am wrong on this, but I think they had a few run ins with the IRA in the 80's and 90's and a price was put on some of their heads. But Iam nowhere near sure about that.

lemansky · 30-08-2007 07:47PM

I think that I read about the 'price on their heads' thing at some point.

Both the ARW and the ERU have been in those positions because of the types of people that they have to deal with. That is why both units are media shy. I specifically remember ERU members giving evidence from behind screens on a number of occasions.

Both units deal with scum who would do something like putting a hit out on not just one or two members, but any member of the unit in question, so it's no surprise really.

PeakOutput · 30-08-2007 07:55PM

Dyflin wrote:

Members of the Irish military entered a civilian facility to "rescue four prison officers"? Anti terrorist work is one thing, but against civilians who at best had home made weapons? What would have happened if shots had been fired by the ARW and civilians killed? Putting highly trained military personnel up against thugs and drug dealers sound very fishy to me...

sounds like the perfect strategy to me. people who know what they are doing doing their job.

your not talking about people solely trained in field exercises like say the rangers in the american army. You are talking about people trained in counter terrorsim and hostage rescue ASWELL as all the field craft of a normal soldier plus some.

also I THINK i read somewhere that it is illegal to publish the identity of any member of the wing and thats fair enough imo they must protect themselves and their family

that competition thing was mentioned I heard that they won it 3 years in a row but that would of been 4/5 years ago i think

invisiblewill · 30-08-2007 08:00PM

Well keeping their identity a secret is a nobrainer. There is no doubt that members of ARW have done undercover work against terrorism and drugs trade. The SAS have been doing it for years. It is common sense really, to protect themselves, plus to protect their families. Think about it :rolleyes:

Tabnabs · 30-08-2007 08:14PM

Thaedydal wrote:

'cos this is a bloody small country and information gets about easily.

But I'm not talking about identifying individuals, I don't really care who the individuals are. Just about disseminating information on some of their training routines and past missions. As I said, this information is widely available for foreign special forces, even in "bloody small" countries.

PeakOutput · 30-08-2007 08:15PM

Dyflin wrote:

But I'm not talking about identifying individuals, I don't really care who the individuals are. Just about disseminating information on some of their training routines and past missions. As I said, this information is widely available for foreign special forces, even in "bloody small" countries.

only after a specific period of time like 15years as far as I am aware.

Tabnabs · 30-08-2007 08:21PM

jackpalance wrote:

Well I believe they are highly disciplined. I don't think they are a gang trigger happy goons. Who would you have rescue prison officers? These guys would know how much force is appropriate.

I would prefer to see the ERU going into these situations to be honest. I am always uncomfortable about military being sent to deal with civilian emergencies. Should they be deployed on rioting crowds? Where do you draw the line?

Hagar · 30-08-2007 08:30PM

I wouldn't let the ERU hold the coats while the Rangers went into action.

They haven't exactly covered themselves in glory to date. But that's only my opinion.

CLADA · 30-08-2007 08:48PM

Hagar wrote:

I wouldn't let the ERU hold the coats while the Rangers went into action.

They haven't exactly covered themselves in glory to date. But that's only my opinion.

Thats a fairly strong statement Hagar, so what do you base that opinion on?

Hagar · 30-08-2007 08:55PM

We are hearing daily reports of gangland shootings between known criminals many of whom seem to be under constant Garda surveillance but how often are the ERU on the spot?

Then there was the shooting to death of a mentally disturbed man wielding a shotgun, nobody mentions who was in range of the shotgun. Why would trained professionals be in range?

Out of range = no danger, in range = ineptitude.

But this is all off topic.

CLADA · 30-08-2007 09:09PM

Hagar wrote:

We are hearing daily reports of gangland shootings between known criminals many of whom seem to be under constant Garda surveillance but how often are the ERU on the spot?

Well they were most recently on the spot last Thursday at the AIB in Sandyford:rolleyes:

Hagar wrote:

Then there was the shooting to death of a mentally disturbed man wielding a shotgun, nobody mentions who was in range of the shotgun. Why would trained professionals be in range?

When an armed cordon is in place the people manning that cordon come into range when the threat moves towards them. You have to confront the threat at some stage if its moving in your direction.....But you are right, this is all off topic.

lemansky · 30-08-2007 09:10PM

Hagar wrote:

We are hearing daily reports of gangland shootings between known criminals many of whom seem to be under constant Garda surveillance but how often are the ERU on the spot?

Daily. Their ops either don't make the news, or they aren't named in the reports. That is because they fade into the background afterwards, they only come to light when involvement can't be denied. What you have said is what most people think, but that is a reality created by the media and is untrue.

Anyway back on topic.

PeakOutput · 30-08-2007 09:12PM

lemansky wrote:

Daily. Their ops either don't make the news, or they aren't named in the reports. That is because they fade into the background afterwards, they only come to light when involvement can't be denied. What you have said is what most people think, but that is a reality created by the media and is untrue.

Anyway back on topic.

that is not true there is nothing secretive about the eru accept possibly the identities of the members. there is no fading into the background if the eru are called they are called

im sure they are called to non newsworthy events all the time but thats not the same thing

PeakOutput · 30-08-2007 09:14PM

also the army do get riot training but and are the next port of call if the garda riot squad is not enough as far as I know.

lemansky · 30-08-2007 09:15PM

PeakOutput wrote:

that is not true there is nothing secretive about the eru accept possibly the identities of the members. there is no fading into the background if the eru are called they are called

I don't mean that their involvement is secretive I mean that they don't go looking for limelight. They are deployed to real situations daily, and this is routine and so is not reported. Most ops just don't make the news, or they just leave after so the media don't get a sniff of them ie they are just called gardaí or armed detectives, not ERU. They are only named sometimes because of this.

And yes some ops are a secret.There are things they do that they have to keep a secret from colleagues in other units.

My main point is that there is this idea that they only do something when you see them in the news, which isn't that often. The fact is they are put on the spot everyday.

eroo · 30-08-2007 09:26PM

well,the ERU man checkpoints at different locations of the country on almost a daily basis,they are on constant patrol in dublin and regurlaly in limerick as well as being involved in surveillance work alongside NSU.for example,the weapons seizure in Cork before the summer.ERU and NSU had been on surveillance for months then moved in when they were sure of the deal,
Gardai are called out to emergencies,involved in high-speed chases and checkpoints every night,but you dont hear about every incident.likewise with ERU

Fratton Fred · 30-08-2007 09:58PM

It might be an idea for the OPs friend to read up on the selection process for the Parachute regiment. Then when you consider that very very very few people who pass that are capable of passing the SAS selection process it may give an idea of what it entails (I believe the counter interrogation piece is particulalry nice, leave your human right by the door for that one:eek: ).

If the Rangers are all they are meant to be, I guess it is not too dissimilar.

Hagar · 30-08-2007 10:55PM

PeakOutput wrote:

also the army do get riot training but and are the next port of call if the garda riot squad is not enough as far as I know.

We certainly did in the FCA in mid 70's and were even involved in one well publicised incident in the Curragh albeit in a supporting roll to the Regs, but we were there.

DublinWriter · 31-08-2007 07:26AM

Hagar wrote:

Then there was the shooting to death of a mentally disturbed man wielding a shotgun, nobody mentions who was in range of the shotgun. Why would trained professionals be in range?

Probably because it's difficult to conduct negotiations from a mile away.

Hagar · 31-08-2007 07:50AM

Shotguns don't have a mile range, I suppose we'ed be talking a 40/50 metre cordon maximum.

DublinWriter · 31-08-2007 10:07AM

Hagar wrote:

Shotguns don't have a mile range, I suppose we'ed be talking a 40/50 metre cordon maximum.

Well, I know that the offical range for 9mm handguns is one-mile when the guards draw up the maps for outdoor shooting ranges.

If they are in a situation where someone has firearms, it's only right for them to corden off the area in order to protect the public. John McCarthy had been shooting at a nearby neighbour's house prior to the ERU arriving and was deemed a threat.

The house was detached with windows on every side, giving John McCarthy a 360 degree range of shot.

What would you have had them do?

arybvtcw0eolkf · 31-08-2007 11:43AM

John McCarthy.

IMO he was given way too much time. He should have been shot dead sooner.

Some of his shots hit a garda car, plus a mega-phone being used by a cop.

He sealed his own faith, and I don't care what his mential state was at the time. I'd like to think I'd have shot him dead without a second thought, went home hugged my wife and kids then deal with the sh*t.

cushtac · 31-08-2007 03:27PM

The ARW were called into a hostage situtation in Mountjoy some years ago to examine the posibility of an explosive entry to the room & to provide assistance to the prison service. In the end the situation was resolved peacefully.

Ruen · 31-08-2007 04:02PM

Mairt wrote:

John McCarthy.

IMO he was given way too much time. He should have been shot dead sooner.

Some of his shots hit a garda car, plus a mega-phone being used by a cop.

He sealed his own faith, and I don't care what his mential state was at the time. I'd like to think I'd have shot him dead without a second thought, went home hugged my wife and kids then deal with the sh*t.

No shots ever hit a mega-phone.
Well if nobody was in the way then he could've been given as much time as possible, why do you think he should have been shot dead sooner?

cushtac · 31-08-2007 05:40PM

Ruen wrote:

No shots ever hit a mega-phone.
Well if nobody was in the way then he could've been given as much time as possible, why do you think he should have been shot dead sooner?

Every foreign expert that was asked about it said that Carthy would have been shot the minute he left the house if he'd failed to drop the gun.

It's all well & good to say that a shotgun isn't that dangerous, but we weren't the ones getting shot at. The Garda who shot Carthy warned him to stop advancing on unarmed Gardaí & when these were ignored he tried to incapacitate him by shooting him in the legs. Unfortunately he died as a result.

Poccington · 31-08-2007 07:11PM

Ruen wrote:

No shots ever hit a mega-phone.
Well if nobody was in the way then he could've been given as much time as possible, why do you think he should have been shot dead sooner?

So by your logic, they should've stayed out of his way altogether?

Stayed out of his way after he had already fired numerous shots and was a threat to the public? When there is a man with a loaded weapon and who is percieved as a threat to the public....... You cannot just "stay outta the way"

The Garda took the necessary action with regards to the situation...... How anybody can try place blame on the Garda in that situation is beyond me. But then again, hindsight is a wonderful thing.

eroo · 31-08-2007 07:22PM

Ruen wrote:

No shots ever hit a mega-phone.
Well if nobody was in the way then he could've been given as much time as possible, why do you think he should have been shot dead sooner?

it doesnt matter if anyone was in the way.if someone advances on your position with a fully loaded weapon,you dont have much time to react,it could be a case of shoot or be shot.in america,for example,he'd have been shot after the 1st call for him to put his weapon down.ERU called on him twice.they tried everything they could in those few seconds.
nowadays,i dont think ARW would be used in a prison hostage situ.ERU probably would deal with it.ARW would be called in if hostiles were armed with guns and/or explosives.dont underestimate the skills and professionality of ERU.they do have all the gear....and yes,the idea too!their record is v.good.how many times a year are people shot dead by gardai??

back to topic;if your friend wants a realistic chance of getting into ARW,he/she should be able to run 10 miles in 70 minutes!thats just a litmus test.if he/she is serious,they should pick up 'Fighting Fit:SAS Fitness Training Guide' by Adrian Weale.with a programme to get you fit,then another programme for you to start 4 months before selection.hope that helps

Irish army ranger wing

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