Irish army ranger wing

Hudson4ever

A friend of mine (it actually is a friend, not me) is thinking of joining the army after college has mentioned that he wants to apply for the rangers. Does anyone know how tough it actually is to make the rangers. I have heard that something like 70% of applicants dont make it through SEAL training in the US, is the ratio similar for the rangers?

Steyr

The guys here wont talk about them and too right either will i but go to Easons and see the newest issue of An Cosantoir on the shelves for an idea.

dangel

Hi Hudson4ever,
It is open to serving members of the Defence Forces only. Check out this link http://www.military.ie/army/ranger/train.htm

NoQuarter

its very very very very hard!

and there would be a higher dropout ratio in the ranger wing than 70%, more like 85%

Tabnabs

What's the score with not talking about the rangers?

I have heard all sorts of rumours about them and what they do or allegedly did.

There's plenty of information available about foreign special forces and their training. For example the Norwegian SF; they freed that German woman who was hostage in Afghanistan during the week (http://www.aftenposten.no/english/local/article1950007.ece). I have seen documentaries on their training operations in the arctic (jumping from a low flying Hercules into a fjord, getting into a one man liferaft and then hooking onto the periscope of a surfacing submarine before climbing onboard and into it, all whilst underway :cool: )

There's a myriad of books and documentaries regarding the SAS and SEAL's just to name two other special forces. Why the secrecy surrounding our rangers?

cushtac

Articles about the ARW can be found from time to time in An Cosantóir, the DF magazine. You don't come across much about them because in general the media isn't interested in the DF.

Conor108

cushtac wrote:

You don't come across much about them because in general the media isn't interested in the DF.

Thats a shame:(

Spyral

they are good marksmen but my only piece of advice is

dont get attached to your puppy

vigos

I read this in the sunday business post a while back thought it was kind of interesting and a shame if its true too!

http://www.thepost.ie/post/text/story.asp?document_id=25689&category_name=&version=print

cp251

Don't know if the article is true but it wouldn't surprise me. To be honest if your friend's reason for joining the army is to get into special forces then I would have question his motivation. It ain't like the movies. In any case the tend to weed out the fantasy merchants quite quickly. A few sleepless nights and long cold marches soon sort out the motivated from the enthusiasts.

Besides, if he really wants an 'interesting' military career. He would really be better off joining the British army. The SAS always had a disproportionate Irish membership and if he can cut the mustard with them, he'll do well.

Conor108

Hmm just noticed something, on the ARW homepage it says

Information on the numerical strength of the Ranger Wing and the identity of its personnel is restricted.

Yet on the link to that article it says:

However, the Department of Finance has told PDforra that no additional money is available to increase the weekly allowance of e 143.01 per member on top of the basic salary paid to the 100-strong elite unit.

Estimate is it?

cushtac

Conor108 wrote:

Estimate is it?

Yup

vigos

maybe the journalist took that info from this site

http://www.specialoperations.com/Foreign/Ireland/Rangers/default.htm

its states approximately 100 strong on that site

tangod

-

Hagar

tangod wrote:

they dont have much combat experience apart from peacekeeping

Their operations are kept secret so how do you know how much combat they have been involved in?

tangod wrote:

more people are leaving the unit every year.

People get older, it's a young man's game. As long as there are new applicants there's no problem.

BTW welcome to the forum.

PeakOutput

i would say the failure rate is above 90%

the fact that no1 knows much if anything about them is great imo.

also bear in mind that alot of operations of the kind that a unit like that would take part in the credit for them would go to the regular enforcement of the area

also an old friend of mine told us (after his father retired) that his father was the commandant(think thats what he said) of the wing for a while I have no idea how true this was but we heard a few interesting and believable stories all the same(from the son not father).

Stev_o

If you want to find out the fitness 12 month there was a article in the Evening Herald im sure you could track it down on the internet

the_syco

PeakOutput wrote:

the fact that no1 knows much if anything about them is great imo.

As the old saying goes "loose lips sink ships", so it's a plus that there's so little info on them.

lemansky

Speaking to guys who were in the army they told me that people who were given special dispensation to train all day and night for ranger selection still failed.
They ran all day and night and worked on all areas of strength. When it came to the selection though they failed as they hadn't factored in the mental stamina that is needed in addition, not that they could've done anything to change that-you either have it or you don't. From what I've heard of the selection process that is very true of the Rangers.

arybvtcw0eolkf

OP your friend will do good just getting through recruit training first. Let him do that and see if he still has an appetite for 'the wing.

If he does decide to go, its one of the units/course's in the Defence Forces which he company commander can not refuse him.

There's lots of advice issued by the Ranger Wing before the course, and if he can't find it a quick phone call to the wing will get him all the advice he needs, including a suggested fitness training programme. Once he has a place his joining instructions will include the rest.

Someone said they've only been involved in peace keeping op's?.

Well they were first into East Timor & brought back a fine reputation from there. Plus they were first into Liberia, and spearheaded a rescue operation there back up by regular D.F. pers from 2 E brigade (Eastern Command for you old sweats!).

They were also involved in the rescue of four prison officers in Mount Joy prison a few year's back.

All this made the mainstream media.

Once this thread reaches the Wing's orderly room we'll all meet mysterious deaths in the next 24hrs.

NoQuarter

lemansky wrote:

Speaking to guys who were in the army they told me that people who were given special dispensation to train all day and night for ranger selection still failed.
They ran all day and night and worked on all areas of strength. When it came to the selection though they failed as they hadn't factored in the mental stamina that is needed in addition, not that they could've done anything to change that-you either have it or you don't. From what I've heard of the selection process that is very true of the Rangers.

yeah i second that, that pretty much sums it up, sometimes ya can train right....but wrong, for instance i ran with heavy weight but slow and on the course we ran with much lighter weight but much faster and that caught me off guard!! ya definitly have to have your head in the right place but its grand and easy sayin that sittin here, try have the same attitude when your gettin slaughtered!!!

lemansky

king-stew wrote:

its grand and easy sayin that sittin here, try have the same attitude when your gettin slaughtered!!!

Absolutely!

All the mental torture is the worst part I hear(from guys who have done it or people who know people etc). If you're fit and can withstand that you're away!Happy rangering:D

Steyr

Mairt wrote:

They were also involved in the rescue of four prison officers in Mount Joy prison a few year's back.

Have you more info on this buddy?

arybvtcw0eolkf

Steyr wrote:

Have you more info on this buddy?

Nope.

muletide

Mairt wrote:

Well they were first into East Timor & brought back a fine reputation from there. Plus they were first into Liberia, and spearheaded a rescue operation there back up by regular D.F. pers from 2 E brigade (Eastern Command for you old sweats!).

QUOTE]

4 W Bde - 90 Inf Bn were drawn from 4 W Bde

Irish_Army01

muletide wrote:

Mairt wrote:

Well they were first into East Timor & brought back a fine reputation from there. Plus they were first into Liberia, and spearheaded a rescue operation there back up by regular D.F. pers from 2 E brigade (Eastern Command for you old sweats!).

QUOTE]

4 W Bde - 90 Inf Bn were drawn from 4 W Bde

The Infantry Unit that relieved the ARW were from 2 Inf Bn.

arybvtcw0eolkf

Irish_Army01 wrote:

muletide wrote:

The Infantry Unit that relieved the ARW were from 2 Inf Bn.

I know, but I never say "2 inf bn" because there's always elements drawn from 2 cav, border units and LSB.

Anyway my point was that not all missions are 'peace keeping'.

Tabnabs

Mairt wrote:

They were also involved in the rescue of four prison officers in Mount Joy prison a few year's back.

Members of the Irish military entered a civilian facility to "rescue four prison officers"? Anti terrorist work is one thing, but against civilians who at best had home made weapons? What would have happened if shots had been fired by the ARW and civilians killed? Putting highly trained military personnel up against thugs and drug dealers sound very fishy to me...

Zambia

Hudson4ever wrote:

A friend of mine (it actually is a friend, not me) is thinking of joining the army after college has mentioned that he wants to apply for the rangers. Does anyone know how tough it actually is to make the rangers. I have heard that something like 70% of applicants dont make it through SEAL training in the US, is the ratio similar for the rangers?

He could join the Royal Irish there official title is Ranger's.

Anyway best learn to walk before running he could be three minutes in the medical and sent home.

Borneo Fnctn

Dyflin wrote:

Members of the Irish military entered a civilian facility to "rescue four prison officers"? Anti terrorist work is one thing, but against civilians who at best had home made weapons? What would have happened if shots had been fired by the ARW and civilians killed? Putting highly trained military personnel up against thugs and drug dealers sound very fishy to me...

Well I believe they are highly disciplined. I don't think they are a gang trigger happy goons. Who would you have rescue prison officers? These guys would know how much force is appropriate.

DublinWriter

jackpalance wrote:

Well I believe they are highly disciplined. I don't think they are a gang trigger happy goons. Who would you have rescue prison officers? These guys would know how much force is appropriate.

While I do respect and admire those working in the Irish Defence Forces, there's something about the ARW that sits a little uneasy with me.

For starters they seem to be making a conscious effort to emulate the mystique of the British SAS through their use of secrecy.

For example, someone please correct me if I'm wrong on this, but the fact that they always conceal their faces at public functions is down to their own choice and not because of a GHQ standing order.

I also do remember that there was a bit of a kafuffle about 15 years ago when some politician came to award them with something or other and they insisted to donning the black balaclavas as their were press photographers present.

I've also heard that they've came first at some annual International competition for special forces units, beating even the US SEALS and British SAS, does anyone have any more information on this?

alan_simon

http://www.military.ie/army/ranger/train.htm

Not a plethora of information, but it tells you a bit about them. I remember reading an article about the rangers, saying the were for mostly anti-terror operations, and there number was around the 125 mark. Can't for the life of me remember where i saw it though.

Nevyn

Dyflin wrote:

What's the score with not talking about the rangers?

There's a myriad of books and documentaries regarding the SAS and SEAL's just to name two other special forces. Why the secrecy surrounding our rangers?

'cos this is a bloody small country and information gets about easily.

Two Stripes

DublinWriter wrote:

While I do respect and admire those working in the Irish Defence Forces, there's something about the ARW that sits a little uneasy with me.

For starters they seem to be making a conscious effort to emulate the mystique of the British SAS through their use of secrecy.

For example, someone please correct me if I'm wrong on this, but the fact that they always conceal their faces at public functions is down to their own choice and not because of a GHQ standing order.

I also do remember that there was a bit of a kafuffle about 15 years ago when some politician came to award them with something or other and they insisted to donning the black balaclavas as their were press photographers present.

I've also heard that they've came first at some annual International competition for special forces units, beating even the US SEALS and British SAS, does anyone have any more information on this?

Where did you hear that they donned balaclavas when getting presented something? As for covering their faces when you are in a unit like that it's not really something that you wanna advertise now is it if you are likely to be doing undercover work?

Catcher86

DublinWriter wrote:

For example, someone please correct me if I'm wrong on this, but the fact that they always conceal their faces at public functions is down to their own choice and not because of a GHQ standing order.

Well someone please correct me if I'am wrong on this, but I think they had a few run ins with the IRA in the 80's and 90's and a price was put on some of their heads. But Iam nowhere near sure about that.

lemansky

I think that I read about the 'price on their heads' thing at some point.

Both the ARW and the ERU have been in those positions because of the types of people that they have to deal with. That is why both units are media shy. I specifically remember ERU members giving evidence from behind screens on a number of occasions.

Both units deal with scum who would do something like putting a hit out on not just one or two members, but any member of the unit in question, so it's no surprise really.

PeakOutput

Dyflin wrote:

Members of the Irish military entered a civilian facility to "rescue four prison officers"? Anti terrorist work is one thing, but against civilians who at best had home made weapons? What would have happened if shots had been fired by the ARW and civilians killed? Putting highly trained military personnel up against thugs and drug dealers sound very fishy to me...

sounds like the perfect strategy to me. people who know what they are doing doing their job.

your not talking about people solely trained in field exercises like say the rangers in the american army. You are talking about people trained in counter terrorsim and hostage rescue ASWELL as all the field craft of a normal soldier plus some.

also I THINK i read somewhere that it is illegal to publish the identity of any member of the wing and thats fair enough imo they must protect themselves and their family

that competition thing was mentioned I heard that they won it 3 years in a row but that would of been 4/5 years ago i think

invisiblewill

Well keeping their identity a secret is a nobrainer. There is no doubt that members of ARW have done undercover work against terrorism and drugs trade. The SAS have been doing it for years. It is common sense really, to protect themselves, plus to protect their families. Think about it :rolleyes:

Tabnabs

Thaedydal wrote:

'cos this is a bloody small country and information gets about easily.

But I'm not talking about identifying individuals, I don't really care who the individuals are. Just about disseminating information on some of their training routines and past missions. As I said, this information is widely available for foreign special forces, even in "bloody small" countries.

PeakOutput

Dyflin wrote:

But I'm not talking about identifying individuals, I don't really care who the individuals are. Just about disseminating information on some of their training routines and past missions. As I said, this information is widely available for foreign special forces, even in "bloody small" countries.

only after a specific period of time like 15years as far as I am aware.

Tabnabs

jackpalance wrote:

Well I believe they are highly disciplined. I don't think they are a gang trigger happy goons. Who would you have rescue prison officers? These guys would know how much force is appropriate.

I would prefer to see the ERU going into these situations to be honest. I am always uncomfortable about military being sent to deal with civilian emergencies. Should they be deployed on rioting crowds? Where do you draw the line?

Hagar

I wouldn't let the ERU hold the coats while the Rangers went into action.

They haven't exactly covered themselves in glory to date. But that's only my opinion.

CLADA

Hagar wrote:

I wouldn't let the ERU hold the coats while the Rangers went into action.

They haven't exactly covered themselves in glory to date. But that's only my opinion.

Thats a fairly strong statement Hagar, so what do you base that opinion on?

Hagar

We are hearing daily reports of gangland shootings between known criminals many of whom seem to be under constant Garda surveillance but how often are the ERU on the spot?

Then there was the shooting to death of a mentally disturbed man wielding a shotgun, nobody mentions who was in range of the shotgun. Why would trained professionals be in range?

Out of range = no danger, in range = ineptitude.

But this is all off topic.

CLADA

Hagar wrote:

We are hearing daily reports of gangland shootings between known criminals many of whom seem to be under constant Garda surveillance but how often are the ERU on the spot?

Well they were most recently on the spot last Thursday at the AIB in Sandyford:rolleyes:

Hagar wrote:

Then there was the shooting to death of a mentally disturbed man wielding a shotgun, nobody mentions who was in range of the shotgun. Why would trained professionals be in range?

When an armed cordon is in place the people manning that cordon come into range when the threat moves towards them. You have to confront the threat at some stage if its moving in your direction.....But you are right, this is all off topic.

lemansky

Hagar wrote:

We are hearing daily reports of gangland shootings between known criminals many of whom seem to be under constant Garda surveillance but how often are the ERU on the spot?

Daily. Their ops either don't make the news, or they aren't named in the reports. That is because they fade into the background afterwards, they only come to light when involvement can't be denied. What you have said is what most people think, but that is a reality created by the media and is untrue.

Anyway back on topic.

PeakOutput

lemansky wrote:

Daily. Their ops either don't make the news, or they aren't named in the reports. That is because they fade into the background afterwards, they only come to light when involvement can't be denied. What you have said is what most people think, but that is a reality created by the media and is untrue.

Anyway back on topic.

that is not true there is nothing secretive about the eru accept possibly the identities of the members. there is no fading into the background if the eru are called they are called

im sure they are called to non newsworthy events all the time but thats not the same thing

PeakOutput

also the army do get riot training but and are the next port of call if the garda riot squad is not enough as far as I know.

lemansky

PeakOutput wrote:

that is not true there is nothing secretive about the eru accept possibly the identities of the members. there is no fading into the background if the eru are called they are called

I don't mean that their involvement is secretive I mean that they don't go looking for limelight. They are deployed to real situations daily, and this is routine and so is not reported. Most ops just don't make the news, or they just leave after so the media don't get a sniff of them ie they are just called gardaí or armed detectives, not ERU. They are only named sometimes because of this.

And yes some ops are a secret.There are things they do that they have to keep a secret from colleagues in other units.

My main point is that there is this idea that they only do something when you see them in the news, which isn't that often. The fact is they are put on the spot everyday.

eroo

well,the ERU man checkpoints at different locations of the country on almost a daily basis,they are on constant patrol in dublin and regurlaly in limerick as well as being involved in surveillance work alongside NSU.for example,the weapons seizure in Cork before the summer.ERU and NSU had been on surveillance for months then moved in when they were sure of the deal,
Gardai are called out to emergencies,involved in high-speed chases and checkpoints every night,but you dont hear about every incident.likewise with ERU

Fratton Fred

It might be an idea for the OPs friend to read up on the selection process for the Parachute regiment. Then when you consider that very very very few people who pass that are capable of passing the SAS selection process it may give an idea of what it entails (I believe the counter interrogation piece is particulalry nice, leave your human right by the door for that one:eek: ).

If the Rangers are all they are meant to be, I guess it is not too dissimilar.