Advertisement
Help Keep Boards Alive. Support us by going ad free today. See here: https://subscriptions.boards.ie/.
https://www.boards.ie/group/1878-subscribers-forum

Private Group for paid up members of Boards.ie. Join the club.
Hi all, please see this major site announcement: https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058427594/boards-ie-2026

Just how utterly self-loathing are some Irish people?

24

Comments

  • #32
    Dyr
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,246 ✭✭✭✭Dyr


    Commander Vimes wrote:
    karl, its nothing to do with hating ireland or anything to do with ireland at all tbh. i don't believe in the concept of patriotism.

    some quotes:


    “Patriotism is your conviction that this country is superior to all others because you were born in it.” GB Shaw

    “Patriotism is the virtue of the vicious.” Oscar Wilde

    “Patriotism is a pernicious, psychopathic form of idiocy” GB Shaw again



    Yeah but you have to bear in mind that ould GB was full of sh** most of the time. Patriotism is'nt about believing that your country is superior to all others its about believing that is the most important country in your life.


  • #33
    Sam Vimes
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,611 ✭✭✭✭Sam Vimes


    Bambi wrote:
    Yeah but you have to bear in mind that ould GB was full of sh** most of the time. Patriotism is'nt about believing that your country is superior to all others its about believing that is the most important country in your life.
    and this continent is the most important continent in my life and this world is the most important world in my life etc etc etc. that doesn't mean i should support it whether its right or wrong. i support someone because they're right, not because they're from the same country as me


  • #34
    Sam Vimes
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,611 ✭✭✭✭Sam Vimes


    here's a perfect example of the flawed logic of patriotism from DaveMcG's sig.
    "Which is more likely: That the whole natural order is suspended? Or that a Jewish minx should tell a lie?"
    -David Hume (on the virgin birth)

    exactly the same logic could be extended to all the miracles jesus supposedly did and his claim to be the son of god and basically the whole religion but he doesn't do that because he's rubbishing someone else's beliefs. his beliefs are different and the only reason they're different is they're his


  • #35
    Hydroquinone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 398 ✭✭Hydroquinone


    Karl Hungus wrote:
    You see, Asian people in America don't stop being ethnically Asian (Outside of intermarrying with other ethnicities) after first or second generation.
    That's not equivalent, though is it? Nationality and ethnicity are two entirely different ball games.

    Asia is a massive continent and comprises many different nationalities. If an Indian marries a person from Singapore in America and they have a child, then the parents are both etnnically Asian, the kid is ethnically Asian, but is the kid a Indian-Singaporean American or an Asian American?
    Dunno


  • #36
    fly_agaric
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,764 ✭✭✭fly_agaric


    AlmightyCushion wrote:
    The thing that really pisses me off though is when people complain that even though we are one of the richest countries in the world, we have a completely shít public transport, health whatever.
    These people seem to have forgotten that we've only had this money in the past twenty years. A country doesn't go from having a third class infrastructure to having an infrastructure that the whole world is jealous of. These things take time.

    sigh...Japan and Germany were bombed to ash and rebuilt in "20 years". I know they were big industrial powers before they embarked on insane militaristic "lebensraum"/empire-building policies and they had major help from the US in rebuilding but this is somewhat counterbalanced by the fact that a) they are an awful lot bigger than we are and b) in addition to our economic boom in the past decade we have had alot of monetary and other help from the EU/EC/EEC over our "20 years".
    Our government should have done better at this stuff than it has given its resourses. Particularly IMO over that past decade or so (2000-now).

    Perhaps low expectations of the "cute-hoors" we elect to lead us is another Irish failing?


  • Advertisement
  • #37
    Orange69
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,139 ✭✭✭Orange69


    fly_agaric wrote:
    sigh...Japan and Germany were bombed to ash and rebuilt in "20 years". I know they were big industrial powers before they embarked on insane militaristic "lebensraum"/empire-building policies and they had major help from the US in rebuilding but this is somewhat counterbalanced by the fact that a) they are an awful lot bigger than we are and b) in addition to our economic boom in the past decade we have had alot of monetary and other help from the EU/EC/EEC over our "20 years".
    Our government should have done better at this stuff than it has given its resourses. Particularly IMO over that past decade or so (2000-now).

    Perhaps low expectations of the "cute-hoors" we elect to lead us is another Irish failing?

    I agree, the current/past government have a lot to answer for.. Whats worse is that the opposition parties seem to be just as incompetent..

    The entire power system in Ireland is rotten to the core.. Personally i wouldn't trust Bertie Ahearn & co to run a youth disco.. let alone a country.....


  • #38
    DublinDilbert
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,429 ✭✭✭DublinDilbert


    Orange69 wrote:
    I have had a pretty similar experience, spent 2 years in canada and 6 months in the US.. People don't realize how badly managed and disorganized ireland really is.. You need to get out there and compare things for yourself..

    ..

    Agree 100% with the above spent 3 years in canada and i can see why people are so proud to be a canadian... the place is very well organised, very well run and the poeple there take huge pride in it....

    In ireland things are 1/2 done, laws are created but not enforced ect... in places like canada its black and white, plain and simple... what amazed me when i first went to canada was how proud people were to work for the local city / government they had a real pride in it...

    What i have learned since i came back to Ireland, is that Ireland is small and full of vested interests, and it affects everyones lives.... our health system is 3rd world, the GPs don't want to do a thing about it as they are onto a great tax free winner, €60 / visit to say "I think u need to go home and rest" or "its probably a virus"....


  • #39
    K-9
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 43,305 ✭✭✭✭K-9


    Commander Vimes wrote:
    loving your family is different to patriotism. people love their families because they were raised together and lived together. i never lived with roy keane, have never met roy keane, have no connection whatsoever to roy keane, yet i'm supposed to feel pride in this stranger's achievements for some reason because 'patriots' tell me i should. it makes no sense.

    should a patriot criticise a german who defected in 1940 and fought on the english side? what he did was morally right but patriotically wrong

    Many would disagree with you on Keane, going back to Saipan and all that, but thats another thread! Some patriots would say you should feel no pride in his achievements. There's a bandwagon element to Keane, even from so called "patriot" Celtic supporters.

    Other than that, you make good points on patriotism.

    There are many points to bring up about Ireland and where we are going wrong. FF/Bertie being the easy one to blame for everything.

    I agree with many of those points, however if this was 20 years ago, the majority of us wouldn't be here, most of us would be in America/England etc. moaning about Ireland from afar.

    The fact that most of us are here moaning about Ireland and alot of us by choice are moaning from afar, says alot.

    Are there problems to be solved, yes. Have a lot of problems been solved, yes.

    Bertie and his cronies have been in power for 17/20 years. Has everything they have done been right, no. But they must have done something right or most of us wouldn't be in Ireland posting this stuff!

    Are there less problems now than 20 years, yes. Will there be in 20 years time?

    Mad Men's Don Draper : What you call love was invented by guys like me, to sell nylons.



  • #40
    SimpleSam06
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,048 ✭✭✭SimpleSam06


    Karl Hungus wrote:
    I've said it before, and I'll say it again, I can't read After Hours without running into 50 comments about how awful Ireland is, how the people suck, and how everything's crap and ****, and it's all worthless.
    What makes you think the posters are Irish? I am continually surprised by both the number and vociferousness of non-Irish posters I encounter on boards, and I'll tell you what, some of them make a pastime out of whining about how crap Ireland is. If its so bad, go home, simple as.

    I'm proud of this country, and its people, both its rich Celtic heritage and its recovery from an extraordinarily long period of occupation. We also have a long history of innovators, scientists, mathemeticians, and world-beating artists and musicians. We are also well known as a friendly outgoing race, when we could be forgiven for sealing the borders and never allowing anyone in ever again, given our history.

    For a little place like Ireland, we have made breathtaking achievements. As they say, if the Irish hadn't invented whiskey, they would have conquered the world! :D

    Thats not patriotism, by the way (which is knuckle dragging tribal drum bashing on a national level), its the simple truth.


  • #41
    Mr. CooL ICE
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,060 ✭✭✭✭Mr. CooL ICE


    I totally agree with Karl. IMO, the country has so many flaws that I find it hilarious. The general attitude of the people torwards everything (e.g. "ah sure it'll be grand" while in a burning building) might be undesirable, but as much as I would try to disassociate myself with this attitude, it will always surface somehow. So IMO, trying to improve oneself's attitude is quite pointless, cos at the end of the day, it'll be grand :)

    I am atheist. I am pro-abortion. I am (under restricted circumstances) pro-death penalty. I hate trad music. I have never been to a céilí. I got a C3 in ordinary level Irish when i did the LC. I think Roy Keane is a twat. I don't like U2. I don't know the national anthem. I think Irish should be made optional, not mandatory in secondary school. I buy from online shops instead of supporting the national economy. None of these are typical irish stances, but I'm still proud of where I come from.

    Another thing: craic. You will not have any craic in any other country unless you are with other irish people. You will have fun, randomness, craziness, etc, but you will never have craic. Its unexplainable, but disassociate yourself from your heritage as much as you want, but you will always miss the craic. excuse the corniness...


  • Advertisement
  • #42
    Raekwon
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,535 ✭✭✭Raekwon


    masseyno9 wrote:
    Agree with all except the bit about people in the states etc being 'irish.' It just seems to me (from personal experience) that they all seem to want to have an identity separate to their nationality. John is half polish half viatnamese, bethany's parents had irish grandparents so she's Irish...? First or second generation I will accept that they can call themselves Irish, but after that they're American/Canadian/whatever. They may have Irish roots, but they're not Irish. I'm not saying people shouldn't know their roots, but to go around saying you're Irish when clearly you're not is just pointless.

    Something that just occurred to me; Aussies nearly all have Irish/English roots somewhere down the line, but for some reason they almost always call themselves Aussies. Is it because they have a national identity? or are more proud of their country, and so don't try to find a new nationality/race to belong to?

    Good to see that there is somebody here that is on my wavelength :) I whole-heartily agreed with what you have said, infact I was debating this with an American poster on another thread called Related to Americans. Unfortunately the debate ended in a one-sided barrage of insults from the American, but I did raise nearly the exact same arguments that you did.


  • #43
    challengemaster
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,925 ✭✭✭✭challengemaster


    Blue_Lagoon wrote:
    Hey! Why do I sense a double meaning? Oh, did you wear your gas mask in Bejing? At least Irish air is better, even if it's always wet (just don't talk about the water in Galway!).
    :o well... there's always other ways to take it.. :p

    and no, I didnt! it's rather fine here actually.. apart from the poor visibility due to the mist/fog, its quite nice. clean enough air.. as for it being wet.. well.. there's more things in Ireland wet than the air.. :o
    It's part of my job description to cause you lads difficulties! Where's my shrimp? Just cause my name isn't Barbie is no excuse to be left out!
    shrimp cócktails? :p


  • #44
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 1,078 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    I do not see my Irishness as being the defining characteristic that makes me who I am. People place too much importance in the country they're born. It is understandable though. If you feel a need to identify and associate yourself with something external, an easy place to start is with where you were born .

    Any sense of association or solidarity I have is with Irish society rather than the Irish state. While I may owe something to society, I owe nothing to the state. I'm pretty sure I'd be writing the same thing if I was from any other country. Who benefits most from identities that stop at a state borders?

    Unthinking patriotism does far more harm than good. If you've got a few minutes look at:

    http://sunsite.berkeley.edu/Goldman/Writings/Anarchism/patriotism.html
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W27wBf7Jw34 - might involve swearing, so possibly NSFW

    We are all one


  • #45
    pid()
    Closed Accounts Posts: 669 ✭✭✭pid()


    I agree with your initial post Karl. I love it here, but I have lost faith in the Irish people. We wouldn't be Irish if we didn't complain. The old Irish generation had a lot to put up with. I was born in the early 80's but didn't really experience the crap economy back then because I was too young to. The 90's were booming, and the 00's are going fine too. The one thing I will give out about is how racist and close minded people in Ireland are. I only noticed this when I went traveling and experienced other countries and cultures. The crap people go through, and how they cope with it is what builds character. I don't think we'll ever learn to mix with "foreigners" for a long long time. Have a look at how many skangers you walk past over the next few days and ask yourself: Do they have any respect for anyone or anything? Can you really see them actually stopping to help someone in the street, give someone proper directions? They are the new generation, and they're scum. Their population is increasing like rabbits and soon we'll be over run by them. This makes me want to jump ship but why should I? **** them, this is my country.


  • #46
    r3nu4l
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,392 ✭✭✭✭r3nu4l


    Average-Ro wrote:
    ...but EVERY Irish voice I heard that night were singing the same tune, and it wasn't pretty.

    Well I'm assuming you are Irish and your voice wasn't amongst those goading the man to jump? So not EVERY Irish voice was carrying on like this then. What about voices you didn't hear? How many of those were Irish? How many Irish people were there silently thinking how awful it was or were out of your earshot? There's idiots everywhere, you saw a few that night.

    I saw a mans' body being fished out of the liffey one night by Dublin Fire Brigade at about 3 am. There was a huge crowd around as a fireman hung off a ladder and tried to fish the body out with a pole. One eejit started jeering the fireman because it took him about 6 attempts to get the guy in. Most of the crowd was silent until then and began shouting at the moron telling him to shut the f**k up and show some respect!

    Anyway, I've travelled a lot and seen a lot of different cultures in action and I love Ireland. Not through the rosy eyes of the emigrant (I have emigrated) either. I return to Ireland every 8-10 weeks so I'm not out of touch. I just love the country I was born in and miss not living there. Fair play to Karl for his rant/post.

    +1 :)


  • #47
    Ekancone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,553 ✭✭✭Ekancone


    Karl Hungus wrote:
    Yep, I've had a big rant on the subject before here: http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=53645706&postcount=11

    But reading the "Irish Patriotism" thread, one comment started me thinking about this phenominon again, and I've decided to start a thread about it. This just made me balk:



    By that logic... Why love your family? Why would anyone love their family? They're just people you were born to, you could've just as easily been born to some other family. Why give any more affection to your parents than you would a stranger on the street?

    Of course, I don't mean to pick on Exit here, there were plenty of other comments in that thread that made me shake my head in dismay.

    But it really gets to me, when people here say that us Irish are such a "Begrudging" bunch, and that word gets thrown around ad nauseum, but what a majority of 'us Irish' are is self-loathing. I've said it before, and I'll say it again, I can't read After Hours without running into 50 comments about how awful Ireland is, how the people suck, and how everything's crap and ****, and it's all worthless. That's what Irish people seem great at, elevating self-hatred and national masochism to an artform.

    I won't go on about how in my personal experience mostly everyone who's so mouty about how much Ireland sucks has never been outside of the country, and doesn't realise just how good we have it here, because I'll just be repeating what I said earlier.

    But you know another thing that bothers me?

    The almost complete inability to see 'Irish' as a distinct ethnic group. Take that idea in the context of how we see the world, and it's ridiculous. We can look at Korean, and Japanese people, and see that they are a completely different ethnic group, they're a very distinct people and have a distinct culture.

    Take for example the usual reaction on here when an American person would consider themselves Irish, and it boils down to a case of they weren't born here, they don't hold an Irish passport, therefor they're not Irish. But it never comes into it that they might be ethnically Irish? No, of course not! Because people here don't seem to like that idea. Something unique about the Irish as a people? No, certainly not, there's no such thing as Irish 'people' only people who hold an Irish passport. :rolleyes:

    It's just amazing how many different cultures consider themselves unique and distinct, yet to many Irish people, the very thought is ridiculous, possibly even repulsive. I just don't get it.

    So no, I'm certainly not the most nationalistic person out there. I've often talked about jumping ship to Japan, and living there. I don't know the national anthem. I didn't vote in the election because I thought it would've been futile. I think our capitol is a ****hole, and our government a shower of bastards. But I like Ireland. I think it's a pretty god damn good place on the whole, and you know what? I'm happy to be Irish. I'm happy to have been born here. It's like that comfy feeling of lying in your own bed. It's not just any bed, it's your bed, and nothing else is quite the same. Ireland just feels right, and it's not perfect, but I like it. :)

    So yeah, there's my rant that went all fluffy in the end.



    Nationalist hyperbole. It belongs between the years 1848-1945, the world is moving on. I suggest you do too.


  • #48
    r3nu4l
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,392 ✭✭✭✭r3nu4l


    daithifleming wrote:
    Nationalist hyperbole. It belongs between the years 1848-1945, the world is moving on. I suggest you do too.
    A quick quip with little substance. Do you work for Independant News and Media? :D


  • #49
    big b
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,432 ✭✭✭big b


    I must be reading the wrong threads.
    Whilst I often read posts decrying poor services/infrastrucure & dodgy politicians, pretty much all the posts I read concerning the Irish people are of the "sure, aren't we great and everyone loves us" variety.
    Posts on the economy are positive, posts on landscapes and quality of life ditto.
    I really don't see the amount of self-loathing alluded to.


  • #50
    Ekancone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,553 ✭✭✭Ekancone


    r3nu4l wrote:
    A quick quip with little substance. Do you work for Independant News and Media? :D


    Nationalism is an idea, nothing more. Do we have some divine right/commitment to this country/lump of rock in the sea? I hate this nationalist bull****, all it does is incite hatred and violence.


  • #51
    r3nu4l
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,392 ✭✭✭✭r3nu4l


    big b wrote:
    ...pretty much all the posts I read concerning the Irish people are of the "sure, aren't we great and everyone loves us" variety.
    Posts on the economy are positive, posts on landscapes and quality of life ditto.
    I really don't see the amount of self-loathing alluded to.

    From a recent thread on the Motors forum...
    This new car sh*t is sheer madness, the Irish only see the badge and the numberplate. And the Lexus would beat the crap out of VW for badge appeal!!

    Seems like self-loathing to me and is a typical example of the 'only the Irish...' mentality that is prevalent in Ireland.

    @Daithi - I never claimed we have a right to this 'lump of rock in the sea' but I still love Ireland. ;)


  • Advertisement
  • #52
    Plissken1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 264 ✭✭Plissken1


    Anto McC wrote:
    Now thats an typical Irish thing to do. Something thats sets us apart.


    Most people voted for Bertie, but only to try and hold onto what they have. Tom Wolfe called it the "ME ME" generation, the English copied it from America in the 1980's, and we adopted it from the English in the 1990's (as we do everything, strange seeing as we are supposed to dislike them). Ireland is still a nice place to live, but you cannot help but notice how many greedy cowboys there are on the island. One thing I find, is that you can pay through the nose for a service and still get crap !.


  • #53
    layke
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,956 ✭✭✭layke


    Quite honestly I see patriotism and realism on opposite ends of the pole.

    It's the most abused word out there, one only has to look towards the mighty US, 'patriot' this 'patriot' that. I can guarentee if they brought in a no firearm law all of the hicks wouldn't respect the new legislation of their government, throw up two finger salute and carry on being armed. Where's the Patriotism to their great country gone there?

    To ask what are you patriotic towards? Are you patriotic to Ireland? The county your born in? Loyalists/Unionists consider themselves patriotic to the crown even though the crown says Westminster is the government and they say love your neighbouring Catholics. "No sure went don't want to do that" for [insert reason here].

    In other words Patriotism only exists to peoples own set rules and can be twisted anyway you like.

    Now national pride (as already said) is one thing. Personally speaking I am of the same mindset as LordChessington well more specificly his 2nd paragrah.
    Except the difference being Ireland has changed for the worse imo, it's a ME-Me culture and I hate it but welcome to the developed world there's nowt I can do about it.


  • #54
    Morlar
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,273 ✭✭✭Morlar


    I agree with the OP too - was thinking something along those lines the other day too. I think there is an element of an inferiority complex going on here too - seemingly more so amongst Irish people who have never lived/worked in other countries or travelled much. imo.


  • #55
    Collie D
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,585 ✭✭✭✭Collie D


    +1 for the OP, apart from the ****hole capital reference ;)

    I think a lot of the moaners on here forget that they are all working and had a free third level education and have taken it for granted. Not something we all had a few years ago unless you were middle class.


  • #56
    thebman
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,001 ✭✭✭✭thebman


    r3nu4l wrote:
    From a recent thread on the Motors forum...

    Seems like self-loathing to me and is a typical example of the 'only the Irish...' mentality that is prevalent in Ireland.

    @Daithi - I never claimed we have a right to this 'lump of rock in the sea' but I still love Ireland. ;)

    I'd go with logic. Most people only do see the badge. The only real problem with this statement is the use of the word Irish instead of people because most people everywhere are this stupid. The Irish aren't special, we just notice it more here because we live here.

    Its the same everywhere else too, you'll find people complaining about SUV drivers etc ...


  • #57
    Karl Hungus
    Closed Accounts Posts: 29,130 ✭✭✭✭Karl Hungus


    Ok, haven't bothered reading much of the responses in depth (Hey, I rarely visit After Hours, so shoot me!) but I get the feeling that some people here aren't quite on the same page as I am with reguards to patiotism, so I think I'd probably like to clear some of that up.

    As I've said, I'm not a person who knows the national anthem, I didn't vote in the election, I don't listen to traditional music, I don't even speak Irish!

    But to me, those are just some unimportant details. It's not about arbitrary pride in things that just happen to be Irish. It's about the place where you grew up holding a special place in your heart. It's the same reason why your home isn't just a house like any other, it's your home, and that's something special. It's like that with Ireland (Or Galway to be specific), it feels homely, it feels special to me.

    That's why I can't get behind the idea of Ireland being nothing special, being just a place like any other. Yeah, if I was born somewhere else, I'm sure I'd grow up with that place becoming a part of me, and having a special place in my heart.

    I think a bit more pride (A sense of home) would do this nation a hell of a lot of good.

    In reguards to whoever said they only heard Irish voices egging someone on in a suicide attempt, well that's EXACTLY what I'm talking about! Do you think would've done that if they had a better sense of kinship? Do you think people would've done it if they cared about themselves reflecting badly on the country? I think they'd even treat people better if they had more of a sense of national pride. You wouldn't treat your home like a dump, and you wouldn't treat a guest in your home like crap either.

    Likewise, we're one of the filthiest countries out there. I think if people didn't think so poorly of the place, if they had more pride in the place, if they thought it was their home instead of just some rock, they wouldn't treat it like a garbage dump. I think Japan was easily the cleanest place I've ever been to, and they're a very nationalistic people.

    Honestly, I think a lot of problems Ireland faces is because a lot of Irish people have 0% repsect for the country, or each other.


  • #58
    Ekancone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,553 ✭✭✭Ekancone


    Karl Hungus wrote:
    Ok, haven't bothered reading much of the responses in depth (Hey, I rarely visit After Hours, so shoot me!) but I get the feeling that some people here aren't quite on the same page as I am with reguards to patiotism, so I think I'd probably like to clear some of that up.

    As I've said, I'm not a person who knows the national anthem, I didn't vote in the election, I don't listen to traditional music, I don't even speak Irish!

    But to me, those are just some unimportant details. It's not about arbitrary pride in things that just happen to be Irish. It's about the place where you grew up holding a special place in your heart. It's the same reason why your home isn't just a house like any other, it's your home, and that's something special. It's like that with Ireland (Or Galway to be specific), it feels homely, it feels special to me.

    That's why I can't get behind the idea of Ireland being nothing special, being just a place like any other. Yeah, if I was born somewhere else, I'm sure I'd grow up with that place becoming a part of me, and having a special place in my heart.

    I think a bit more pride (A sense of home) would do this nation a hell of a lot of good.

    In reguards to whoever said they only heard Irish voices egging someone on in a suicide attempt, well that's EXACTLY what I'm talking about! Do you think would've done that if they had a better sense of kinship? Do you think people would've done it if they cared about themselves reflecting badly on the country? I think they'd even treat people better if they had more of a sense of national pride. You wouldn't treat your home like a dump, and you wouldn't treat a guest in your home like crap either.

    Likewise, we're one of the filthiest countries out there. I think if people didn't think so poorly of the place, if they had more pride in the place, if they thought it was their home instead of just some rock, they wouldn't treat it like a garbage dump. I think Japan was easily the cleanest place I've ever been to, and they're a very nationalistic people.

    Honestly, I think a lot of problems Ireland faces is because a lot of Irish people have 0% repsect for the country, or each other.



    ...and they are considered (in Asia) to be rascist, sexist and have a superiority complex. Sounds like nationalists to me!


  • #59
    Karl Hungus
    Closed Accounts Posts: 29,130 ✭✭✭✭Karl Hungus


    http://dennisjudd.com/albums/cats/orly.jpg


  • #60
    r3nu4l
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,392 ✭✭✭✭r3nu4l


    brim4brim wrote:
    The only real problem with this statement is the use of the word Irish instead of people because most people everywhere are this stupid. The Irish aren't special, we just notice it more here because we live here.

    That's my point, in Ireland we constantly refer to 'us Irish, worst drivers, haven't a clue..ony the Irish could litter the country like that...we Irish are useless at..."

    We constantly moan about what a terrible people we are! I've been living in England 3 years and I've yet to hear English people compain, "Oh us English, we're such a nation of thugs and hooligans, look at us when we are abroad...". You just don't hear that level of self loathing anywhere else I've been to. This despite the fact that England has as many (if not more) problems than Ireland. At least they can recognise that there problems are specific to a particular type or group of people and not the nation as a whole!

    Taking the example of the guy standing on the ledge and a bunch of scumbags jeering him to jump...had that happened while a bunch of elderly ladies were returning home from mass I can assure you the reaction of "the Irish" would have been different. There would have been a lot of "Oh Jesus, Mary and Joseph, Lord bless us and protect us, come down from there now son and tell us what's wrong", instead of jeering.

    There's plenty of scum around but there are more better people. The problem is that the scum are more vocal and like attracting attention to themselves.

    I loved living in Ireland, it will always be special to me and be my home country, that doesn't make me a crazed, flag-waving, foaming at the mouth patriotic nationalist.


  • Advertisement
  • #61
    Karl Hungus
    Closed Accounts Posts: 29,130 ✭✭✭✭Karl Hungus


    r3nu4l wrote:
    I loved living in Ireland, it will always be special to me and be my home country, that doesn't make me a crazed, flag-waving, foaming at the mouth patriotic nationalist.

    That's exactly what I'm getting at with my previous post on the subject! :)


Advertisement
Advertisement