Killing burglars in ireland

Conor108 · 14-08-2007 07:40PM #1

I was just watching that Simpsons where Chief Wiggum tells Homer that anything you do a person while there in your home is "nice and legal" and then homer invites Flanders in and is told it doesn't work if you invite them. Is that the same in Ireland? I vaguely remember some farmer or someone ages ago on the news who killed a tresspasser or something like that but I forget what happened

cornbb · 14-08-2007 07:41PM

Oh no, here we go.

Pitchforks at the ready :rolleyes:

(helpful answer: no its not, or at least shouldn't be, but sometimes "justice" doesn't do itself justice)

Conor108 · 14-08-2007 07:42PM

Well that can't be good.....strange feeling to delete thread rising

cornbb · 14-08-2007 07:43PM

Conor108 wrote:

Well that can't be good.....strange feeling to delete thread rising

Don't mean to knock your thread or anything, but previous threads on the Padraig Nally case degenerated into horrible things. Plus the gun ownership thread here today wasn't too impressive either.

Conor108 · 14-08-2007 07:46PM

Yeah the gun thing reminded me of it. Anyway, in order to not get flamed.....Pay no attention to this thread Thats right, move along there

scruff321 · 14-08-2007 07:46PM

Conor108 wrote:

I vaguely remember some farmer or someone ages ago on the news who killed a tresspasser or something like that but I forget what happened

are you taking the piss? how could you only vaguely remember that?!? it was one of the most contraversial trials in irish history

Conor108 · 14-08-2007 07:47PM

scruff321 wrote:

are you taking the piss? how could you only vaguely remember that?!? it was one of the most contraversial trials in irish history

Yeah Im 15 though so I don't imagine I was a loyal follower of current events back then

Dave! · 14-08-2007 08:03PM

BURN EM, BURN EM ALL!!!!!q

biko · 14-08-2007 08:44PM

You can use reasonable force to protect yourself and your property but then it's up to the courts (after the fact mind) what reasonable force is...

The Bollox · 14-08-2007 08:52PM

I'm sure you could get away with it. all you have to do is plead insanity and in the court room shout hysterically "I'LL KILL YA! I'LL KILL ALL OF YA! ESPECIALLY THOSE OF YOU IN THE JURY"

tallus · 14-08-2007 08:54PM

You could also do a Homer Simpson and address them as "Drunken Hicks of the Jury"

I'll get me coat

floyd333 · 14-08-2007 09:03PM

biko wrote:

You can use reasonable force to protect yourself and your property but then it's up to the courts (after the fact mind) what reasonable force is...

reasonable force? If someone breaks into my house, they won't be walking out simple as that.

neon_glows · 14-08-2007 09:07PM

what if you invite them in and they dont leave, can you use reasonable force then.

The Real B-man · 14-08-2007 09:27PM

If ya even scratch a burgular nowadays you would prob endup in prison :rolleyes:

DarkJager · 14-08-2007 09:34PM

Is there not something about being able to use lethal force if the intruder is on the 2nd floor of the house? I think its viewed as a direct threat to the lives of everyone in the house and as such, whatever force needed to subdue or terminate the intruder is allowed.

Don't know how you'd keep your cool confronting a burglar to be honest. I'd probably end up killing the bastard either way just for having the cheek to break into my house.

Boston · 14-08-2007 09:37PM

The Real B-man wrote:

If ya even scratch a burgular nowadays you would prob endup in prison :rolleyes:

Yea thats accurate :rolleyes::rolleyes:

princess-lala · 14-08-2007 09:38PM

id kill anyone that stepped foot near my gate!!!
out with rifel!!:D

i live in a bungalow in the middle of nowhere !!! any intruders gettin up to my attic il have the guns/battons everythin possible to kick the **** outa them!!!

The Bollox · 14-08-2007 09:38PM

DarkJager wrote:

Is there not something about being able to use lethal force if the intruder is on the 2nd floor of the house?

AFAIK this is true. what happens if you live in a bungalow? do you just have to call the police and wait a good half hour for them to arrive. also what happens if you live in an apartment block? can you do whatever you like if you are above the ground floor?

Boston · 14-08-2007 09:44PM

The Bollox wrote:

AFAIK this is true. what happens if you live in a bungalow? do you just have to call the police and wait a good half hour for them to arrive. also what happens if you live in an apartment block? can you do whatever you like if you are above the ground floor?

When has the law every been that specific? I've heard to second floor thing numerous times, I've no idea if its true, but I'd imagine its worded along the lines of "close to where you sleep".

DarkJager · 14-08-2007 09:48PM

That place where the matresses are

The Bollox · 14-08-2007 09:50PM

put a matress in every room of the house (I'm sure the size of the matress won't matter) so you can kick the carp out of them anywhere

Alanthroneus · 14-08-2007 10:01PM

i was listening to the news or the radio or something and they were talking about this. dont know what the law says exactly but apparently the burgler is supported more by the law than you are yourself. afaik mc dowell was planning to change the law or something so that you would have more rights to defend yourself in that situation but Brian Lenihan in all his wisdom has shelved it...

Yakuza · 14-08-2007 10:01PM

We've two sofa beds downstairs, on one of which I have been known to fall asleep on, ergo I sleep on both floors of the house. Sorted!

Hagar · 14-08-2007 10:09PM

My Da always said "I'd rather be tried by twelve men rather than carried by six".

gamblor101 · 14-08-2007 10:37PM

I remember hearing on the radio a few weeks back that one of the states in the US legalised the "shoot first, ask questions later" principle when it comes to burgulary.

Rhonda9000 · 14-08-2007 10:43PM

Force may be used to evict a trespasser in appropriate circumstances - s.18 Non Fatal Offences Against the Person Act 1997.

To the "it's a disgrace" heads: the idea is pretty simple - if there was carte blanche to do as you wished to trespassers on your property, all you would have to do to someone you wish to assault or kill is lure them there and claim later they were trespassing on your property.

Edit: I might also add - if the trespasser attacks you and you believe at the time that they are going to kill you and you kill them in self defence etc. the defence of self-defence is pleaded...

MooseJam · 14-08-2007 11:50PM

didn't a burglar fall from the first floor of an apartment building and kill himself recently, everybody was saying it was a tragic accident, tragic accident me arse good enough for him, any burglar is fair game in my book

Agamemnon · 15-08-2007 12:39AM

IMO, if a burglar breaks into a house, they should have no legal comeback if something happens to them. If they get their heads blown off, get mauled by dogs or fall down the stairs and break their legs - tough shit. They had no right to be there in the first place so whatever happens, they brought on themselves.

Manic Moran · 15-08-2007 12:50AM

gamblor101 wrote:

I remember hearing on the radio a few weeks back that one of the states in the US legalised the "shoot first, ask questions later" principle when it comes to burgulary.

Although somewhat sensasionalist radio reporting, it's roughly referring to the Castle Doctrine. (i.e. A Man's Home is his Castle, from the UK Common Law of the 1700s). It's not actually a new concept, for example California has had it on the books for decades (and I quoted it on the gun thread). Exactly half the States have such a law on the books.

Italy recently enacted a similar law.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/4645228.stm

The Italian parliament has passed legislation allowing people to shoot robbers in self-defence.
The law permits the use of guns and knives by people in homes or workplaces to protect lives or belongings

Some States have expanded the presumption of correctness to encompass not only your home, but also any place where you have every legal right to be. These are commonly known as "Stand your ground" laws, or "Shoot First" laws by the critics. In actuality, they don't relax the conditions required for lethal force: There must still be a grave threat, but they do reduce the uncertainty produced by the Duty to Retreat concept, and Monday-morning quarterbacking which often follows such an incident.

NTM

Reku · 15-08-2007 08:05AM

Alanthroneus wrote:

i was listening to the news or the radio or something and they were talking about this. dont know what the law says exactly but apparently the burgler is supported more by the law than you are yourself. afaik mc dowell was planning to change the law or something so that you would have more rights to defend yourself in that situation but Brian Lenihan in all his wisdom has shelved it...

Alas this is undoubtedly the case, the law doing more to protect the criminals than the victims.
IMO if someone breaks into your house you should be allowed use any force YOU deem necessary. You have no idea what their intent is, no idea if they're alone, if they're armed, etc... Add to that the fact that they clearly consider themselves outside the law and don't give a toss about your human rights, as such I don't see why they should be given any protection by the law or human rights either. Run things like this and I think there would be a steady decrease in the amount of burglaries.
This is a large part of what's wrong with the world IMO, thanks to the idiocy of the law it's easier and more benefitial to lead an illegal & immoral existance than to live straight and narrow.

Spyral · 15-08-2007 08:59AM

I think that lethal force is 'immediatly ok' that is you wake up with some bloke in your room and you blow his head off its ok as if he's in your bedroom its assumed that he's there to cause you injury.

otherwise reasonable force to eject is allowed

Killing burglars in ireland

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