Pighead Vs Iraq

Orange69 · 15-08-2007 01:47AM

indough wrote:

If the thread is going to go all PC crazy then it's not really going to be a very fun place for anyone anymore.

D'ont worry so long and you keep posting up your jems of knowledge and flaming at the slightest provocation it'll be fun

indough · 15-08-2007 01:47AM

humbert wrote:

Only pass degrees and arts degrees and even arts is four years in Trinity to the best of my knowledge(sorry, I know that's pedantic. Oh and I'm not knocking arts).

No you got an hons. arts in 3 years in Cork anyway

indough · 15-08-2007 01:54AM

Orange69 wrote:

D'ont worry so long and you keep posting up your jems of knowledge and flaming at the slightest provocation it'll be fun

**** it this is getting boring. I'm not going to degenerate to this level

Mahatma coat · 15-08-2007 02:10AM

OK lets start at the beginning
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/2017044.stm

the US needs bases to control its empire
http://www.commondreams.org/views04/0115-08.htm

and of course I just have to roll out this old chestnut

and have you seen this
http://www.newamericancentury.org/

Fcuk I'm startin to sound like a conspiracy nut, you do know that they werre originaly going to call the war Operation Iraqi Liberation but when you make an acronym it gave the game away.

as for the bringing of democracy to a nation, seriously do you believe that,

of course it stands to reason, theres not enough freedom in the world so in order to give the iraqi's freedom they had to take some from the americans.

Bush is a WAR PRESIDENT as such he has a hell of a lot more executive powers as comander in chief than Clinton had.

they use the bogeymen tactics of Islamic terrorists to Terrorise the american population and subdue them, dont speak out, you're unpatriotic and as such can be herded off to Gitmo in the middle of the night without due process.

they will continue to get away with it as long as people* like you and others support them and believe that they are there to help.

they are there to steal the resoursces like pirates as you said yerself.

*not original word used

humbert · 15-08-2007 02:15AM

Mahatma coat wrote:

Fcuk I'm startin to sound like a conspiracy nut, you do know that they werre originaly going to call the war Operation Iraqi Freedom but when you make an acronym it gave the game away.

Are you sure it wasn't Operation Iraqi Liberation or am I missing something?

indough · 15-08-2007 02:18AM

Decided to delete my posts as i'm obviously a mong for having a POV which differs from all yours.

Have fun guys

Mahatma coat · 15-08-2007 02:24AM

ah yeah, I was on a righteous roll and not payin much heed to spellin the first time round, have corrected most of the mistakes, ya never get em all tho do ya

Orange69 · 15-08-2007 02:26AM

indough wrote:

Decided to delete my posts as i'm obviously a mong for having a POV which differs from all yours.

Wow i have never seen anyone so pathetic on boards... to delete all your posts...just wow.. and i don't mean that as an insult, just as an observation...

Hopefully the mods can restore them so that others can enjoy this thread in the future...

Irish Wolf · 15-08-2007 02:27AM

indough wrote:

Decided to delete my posts as i'm obviously a mong for having a POV which differs from all yours.

What's a mong?

Mahatma coat · 15-08-2007 02:27AM

indough wrote:

Decided to delete my posts as i'm obviously a mong for having a POV which differs from all yours.

see thats just not fair, we havent finished ridiculing you yet

referencing blogs from conspiracy sites is also not cricket in my book. Have fun guys

what would you have us do, take all our info from Faux News?

15-08-2007 02:29AM

Indough, is your idea of America informed by Jimmy Stewart films?

humbert · 15-08-2007 02:30AM

indough wrote:

Decided to delete my posts as i'm obviously a mong for having a POV which differs from all yours.

Ah, dude, you should stand by what you say even if others disagree. The boardsie bark is worse than the bite anyway

Orange69 · 15-08-2007 02:32AM

Irish Wolf wrote:

What's a mong?

A total spastic.. (check out urbandictionary.com)

indough · 15-08-2007 02:35AM

Orange69 wrote:

Wow i have never seen anyone so pathetic on boards... to delete all your posts...just wow.. and i don't mean that as an insult, just as an observation...

Hopefully the mods can restore them so that others can enjoy this thread in the future...

Well if you'd like to discuss the matter further in person then i'll gladly exchange the relevant contact details

Irish Wolf · 15-08-2007 02:39AM

Orange69 wrote:

Wow i have never seen anyone so pathetic on boards... to delete all your posts...

It's quite a back down alright..

Wonders who's post my "yore ma" comment will end up beneath..

indough · 15-08-2007 03:49AM

humbert wrote:

Ah, dude, you should stand by what you say even if others disagree. The boardsie bark is worse than the bite anyway

It ended up a little more than disagreement tbh. I got rid of my posts because i'm sick of arguing the point at this stage, and every time someone quotes one of my posts I get an email sent to my address. I just can't be bothered continuing with it anymore if people are just going to resort to unsubstantiated insults such as 'you're a mong'. We're not children after all.

No doubt some comic genius will probably quote this post just to piss me off now

eoin5 · 15-08-2007 04:17AM

humbert wrote:

Only pass degrees and arts degrees and even arts is four years in Trinity to the best of my knowledge(sorry, I know that's pedantic. Oh and I'm not knocking arts).

I've got a chainsaw certificate, took me five weeks and gets me more respect than the BSc that took me 5 years

Mahatma coat · 15-08-2007 04:51AM

indough wrote:

It ended up a little more than disagreement tbh.

what? if you want to come onto boards spout ****e for 3 pages and then claim that the big bad Boardsies are being nasty by responding to your tripe with LOGIC

I got rid of my posts because i'm sick of arguing the point at this stage,

what you had a point

and every time someone quotes one of my posts I get an email sent to my address.

cool

:D:D:D:

I just can't be bothered continuing with it anymore if people are just going to resort to unsubstantiated insults such as 'you're a mong'.

Unsubstantiated!!! put your posts back and let people decide for themselves

We're not children after all.

debatable

No doubt some comic genius will probably quote this post just to piss me off now

I'm feckin hilarious me aint I

:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D

Mahatma coat · 15-08-2007 04:55AM

eoin5 wrote:

I've got a chainsaw certificate, took me five weeks and gets me more respect than the BSc that took me 5 years

same here, in terms of pay negotiation tho I find the most useful one's over here are me machinery tickets, then me Chainsaw cert, then me builders registration,then the First aid courses then its the BSc in Industrial computing, which in fairness is close to fcuk all use as a Sawmiller

indough · 15-08-2007 05:02AM

Mahatma coat wrote:

OK lets start at the beginning
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/2017044.stm

the US needs bases to control its empire
http://www.commondreams.org/views04/0115-08.htm

and of course I just have to roll out this old chestnut

and have you seen this
http://www.newamericancentury.org/

Fcuk I'm startin to sound like a conspiracy nut, you do know that they werre originaly going to call the war Operation Iraqi Freedom but when you make an acronym it gave the game away.

as for the bringing of democracy to a nation, seriously do you believe that,

of course it stands to reason, theres not enough freedom in the world so in order to give the iraqi's freedom they had to take some from the americans.

Bush is a WAR PRESIDENT as such he has a hell of a lot more executive powers as comander in chief than Clinton had.

they use the bogeymen tactics of Islamic terrorists to Terrorise the american population and subdue them, dont speak out, you're unpatriotic and as such can be herded off to Gitmo in the middle of the night without due process.

they will continue to get away with it as long as people* like you and others support them and believe that they are there to help.

they are there to steal the resoursces like pirates as you said yerself.

*not original word used

Sorry, could you point out the logic* for me? What's a 'gitmo'? Is a 'war president' some sort of new position in the US government, and how exactly does the 'war president' have 'a hell of a lot more executive powers as comander in chief than Clinton had'? As for 'OIF', your little acronym joke*, wtf is an 'OIF'? Have you been smoking crystal meth tonight?

*not original word used

Mahatma coat · 15-08-2007 05:18AM

Gitmo == Camp X-Ray, Guantanamo Bay, Cuba

yes a WAR President has much more executive power, as a WAR PResident GWB has Direct control of the US armed Forces as their Comander in chief, no need to check his foreign policy with pesky congress or the senate, he only needs them to ratify internal stuff, which he really dosent any more either since he got the Patriot act ands his executive orders and Signing statements.

OIF was meant to be Operation Iraqi Liberation (OIL) however I made a typographical error due to my vitriolic rage at you incessent stupidity, which I later clarified.

and no Ice yet tonight but Jaysus I might if I have to put up with more of your tripe

ALSO if you think its acceptable to delete all your posts so people cant requote you at least have the decency to include my corrections when requoting me, you have no right to mock the OIL/OIF mistake as you deleted all your posts, which I find just a tad CHILDISH!

kowloon · 15-08-2007 05:21AM

eoin5 wrote:

I've got a chainsaw certificate, took me five weeks and gets me more respect than the BSc that took me 5 years

That is pretty kewl

Mahatma coat · 15-08-2007 05:37AM

indough wrote:

Sorry, could you point out the logic* for me? What's a 'gitmo'? Is a 'war president' some sort of new position in the US government, and how exactly does the 'war president' have 'a hell of a lot more executive powers as comander in chief than Clinton had'? As for 'OIF', your little acronym joke*, wtf is an 'OIF'? Have you been smoking crystal meth tonight?

*not original word used

now lets look at Logic seperatley shal we.

"America is addicted to Foreign oil" GWB

OPEC controlled the oil in the middle east, it was in their interest to keep the price at a reasonable level so as to maximise profits without reducing demand, ie if the price of oil is over a Dollar a litre then it makes sense to produce Biofuels, not in the interes of OPEC as they can produce oil for about 15c a Litre ( people can correct me on the actual figures ) now the US has oil reserves, but it cant produce for less than say 80c a litre so its in the interest of the US to forcibly take control of the middle east invade anyone who wont play ball and jack the price of oil up.

they started off with Saudi Bases after duping the Saudis into believing they were under iminent threat of attack from
Sadams one million man army, yes they were under iminent threat but it wasnt the Iraqi's.

they left Sadam in power for ten years, actualy stopping the rebelion that began in the initial Gulf war so as to consolidate Sadams power, does that strike you as the actions of someone who wants to spread Democracy

then the SAUDI'S attacked the US allegedley on 11/09/2001 and the US realised that they needed a base somewhere else, so first they tried Afghanistan but its too remote and lacks any real resoursces except the Gas pipeline, which BTW the Marines have 'Swept and Cleaned' a path for.

with that done and a launching platform established they created a few allies - Evil military Dictator Genaral Musharaf became Benevolent President Musharaf of Pakistan, Uzbekistan are allowed do their thing as long as they let the yanks do theirs etc...

then they decided that it would be a good media angle to Attack Iraq, finish the job they started ten years earlier, bring reporters from Faux along for the ride, really get peoples patriotic juices flowing while at the same time systematicly eroding peoples civil liberties to the point that the 5th ammendment only exists in history books

to quote the man himself again

"The Constitution is just a God dammed piece of paper" GWB

does that clarify the points raised here by myself and others?

indough · 15-08-2007 06:45AM

Mahatma coat wrote:

now lets look at Logic seperatley shal we.

"America is addicted to Foreign oil" GWB

OPEC controlled the oil in the middle east, it was in their interest to keep the price at a reasonable level so as to maximise profits without reducing demand, ie if the price of oil is over a Dollar a litre then it makes sense to produce Biofuels, not in the interes of OPEC as they can produce oil for about 15c a Litre ( people can correct me on the actual figures ) now the US has oil reserves, but it cant produce for less than say 80c a litre so its in the interest of the US to forcibly take control of the middle east invade anyone who wont play ball and jack the price of oil up.

they started off with Saudi Bases after duping the Saudis into believing they were under iminent threat of attack from
Sadams one million man army, yes they were under iminent threat but it wasnt the Iraqi's.

they left Sadam in power for ten years, actualy stopping the rebelion that began in the initial Gulf war so as to consolidate Sadams power, does that strike you as the actions of someone who wants to spread Democracy

then the SAUDI'S attacked the US allegedley on 11/09/2001 and the US realised that they needed a base somewhere else, so first they tried Afghanistan but its too remote and lacks any real resoursces except the Gas pipeline, which BTW the Marines have 'Swept and Cleaned' a path for.

with that done and a launching platform established they created a few allies - Evil military Dictator Genaral Musharaf became Benevolent President Musharaf of Pakistan, Uzbekistan are allowed do their thing as long as they let the yanks do theirs etc...

then they decided that it would be a good media angle to Attack Iraq, finish the job they started ten years earlier, bring reporters from Faux along for the ride, really get peoples patriotic juices flowing while at the same time systematicly eroding peoples civil liberties to the point that the 5th ammendment only exists in history books

to quote the man himself again

"The Constitution is just a God dammed piece of paper" GWB

does that clarify the points raised here by myself and others?

None of the above is in fact logic. Logic is about making inference based on known facts. As far as I could make out most of the post above was mainly conjecture on your part.

I shouldn't have deleted my posts but I was beginning to feel like I was under personal attack. Being called a mong and a twat for expressing a political view will do that to you though. If you really want to read them then just look back at other peoples posts, God knows they've been quoted enough. You can't expect to enter a debate at the end and quote what i've said several pages back anyway to be honest, the points had already been made and arguments had been presented by the people who were present on the board at the time.

I'm afraid the US doesn't dictate the price of oil, as far as I know OPEC is not incorporated into the US government.

Where can I find this information including the GWB quotes (reasonable sources this time please, the weekly world news type of stuff doesn't cut it in serious discussions), not saying I don't believe you, just interested. I have heard him come up with some crackers in the past, but you should realize that he is not the be all and end all of US foreign policy. The senate have never to my knowledge signed over all of their powers to the President. He's more of a figure head than anything else. The Patriot Act was a mistake, but I think we should save the New World Order mentality for the conspiracy theories forum.

The US have had a launching base in the region since way before they were invited into Saudi Arabia, it's called Turkey. Both countries have an atrocious human rights record, thats granted, but sometimes in life you've just got to make compromises for the greater good. Noone is always going to make the right choices when it comes down to it.

I really don't think the war presented a good media angle for them tbh, before they went in they knew that the majority of the world were already condemning them.

While your at it please read this:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/1197900.stm

Then make a stab at explaining to me why the Taliban are attacking monuments belonging to a religious group that had not provoked them in any way whatsoever. They used the excuse of being miffed at some Indian Hindus. Now exactly what Indian Hindus have to do with a Buddhist statue is beyond me.

Remember also that eleven Israeli athletes were murdered in cold blood in Munich by these same type of militants. They were not enemy combatants nor were they in the line of fire. They were not killed in a war by either straying in front of a bullet or having a bomb dropped on them, they were simply murdered.

It should also be remembered that successful operations carried out by the US and other states are never really heard of, as they are designed not to be. Botched operations have a tendency to be found out about (a la Bay of Pigs) and are therefore more apparent.

Personally I don't believe that terrorism can be fought under war like circumstances, but I also find it hard to believe that this war is all about natural resources. As I mentioned in an earlier post, if the cost of waging war were to be spent on resource exploration it would have been far more efficient and beneficial to the American nation.

Noone is a moron just because they don't agree with your opinions on either politics or religion, because noone ever agrees on those two subjects in particular. That's why you are not supposed to bring those topics up in general conversation. And believe it or not just because you may believe that you understand the intricacies of global politics, you probably don't. Otherwise you'd probably be earning a six figure salary for it.

So let's not bother resorting to name calling in future posts, eh?

Time Magazine · 15-08-2007 06:46AM

Terry wrote:

When I said the christians took the war to the muslims, I was referring to the crusades.

The Crusades occured between c.1100-1300 AD.

Muslims had been kicking it to the Jesus Gang 500 years before that. Religious wars did not begin with the Crusades. Junior Cert history might, though.

Terry wrote:

Also, did anyone think of asking the Iraqi people if they wanted democracy?

One of the great things about democracy is that if you don't want it, there's nothing stopping you electing a non-democrat. Happened in a few countries in Europe in the twentieth century.

Mahatma coat · 15-08-2007 07:34AM

indough wrote:

I shouldn't have deleted my posts but I was beginning to feel like I was under personal attack. Being called a mong and a twat for expressing a political view will do that to you though.

only if your political view is clearly illinformed and each post serves to further demonstrate your lack of understanding on the issues being discussed

I'm afraid the US doesn't dictate the price of oil.

quickly, answer this, WHAT CURRENCY IS OIL TRADED IN?????????

Where can I find this information including the GWB quotes (reasonable sources this time please, the weekly world news type of stuff doesn't cut it in serious discussions), not saying I don't believe you, just interested.

FGI but here, heres a link http://www.capitolhillblue.com/artman/publish/article_7779.shtml although I doubt that you'll consider it valid cos it dont suit you

I have heard him come up with some crackers in the past, but you should realize that he is not the be all and end all of US foreign policy.

See coments regarding WAR PRESIDENT, actualy Fcuk off and do some real research on the topic

The senate have never to my knowledge signed over all of their powers to the President. He's more of a figure head than anything else.

SEE ABOVE COMMENT.
also
What you dont know could fill a Warehouse

The Patriot Act was a mistake,

no sh!t Sherlock

but I think we should save the New World Order mentality for the conspiracy theories forum.

its precisley because of that attitude that they have gotten so far in creating this New World Order

The US have had a launching base in the region since way before they were invited into Saudi Arabia, it's called Turkey.

Turkey just dosent cut the mustard when attempting to control the region, theres all those pesky mountains in the south and its lookin at becoming an EU member state, very bad for US attempts at control.

Both countries have an atrocious human rights record, thats granted,

that wouldnt be enough for you to start questioning the involvement of the US - The Bastions of Freedom and Democracy- with these countries?

but sometimes in life you've just got to make compromises for the greater good.

ands exactly who's greater good is that, the countless dead Iraqis, the Turks and Pakistanis who remain under persecution from corrupt regiemes promoteds by America, or the oil barons and arms dealers that finance the current US administration?

Noone is always going to make the right choices when it comes down to it.

yes but I hold that anyone else on the planet wouldn't have made as many BAD choices as the current US administration

I really don't think the war presented a good media angle for them tbh, before they went in they knew that the majority of the world were already condemning them.

you're forgetting an important detail, once Troops were on the ground peoples patriotic pride in their troops and will to see them win outweighed any 'Unpatriotic' argument presented, that and national pride/not wanting another VIetnam retreat

While your at it please read this:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/1197900.stm

ok so you get up in arms at the taleban knockn down some ancient statues that they find offensive to their religion, but you support the carpetbombing of an entire country as the right thing to do!

Then make a stab at explaining to me why the Taliban are attacking monuments belonging to a religious group that had not provoked them in any way whatsoever. They used the excuse of being miffed at some Indian Hindus. Now exactly what Indian Hindus have to do with a Buddhist statue is beyond me.

Iconoclasticisim - Look it up yerself.
I may not like it but if we're going to bang on about freedom then they're also free to follow their religious beliefs no matter how abhorrent we find them, they didnt actualy kill anyone that time so it would be one of the least of the talebans attrocities in my book

Remember also that eleven Israeli athletes were murdered in cold blood in Munich by these same type of militants. They were not enemy combatants nor were they in the line of fire. They were not killed in a war by either straying in front of a bullet or having a bomb dropped on them, they were simply murdered.

that was black september, aided by Bader Meinhoff, under the comand of Mikheail Mukbail(sp?) they were the forerunners of the PLO/Hammas, and yes what the Israelis are doing in Palestine sickens me BUT every Israeli serves at in the IDF at some time so technicaly they may be considered aligned if not enemy combattents.

anyway thats so off topic its almost full circle

It should also be remembered that successful operations carried out by the US and other states are never really heard of, as they are designed not to be. Botched operations have a tendency to be found out about (a la Bay of Pigs) and are therefore more apparent.

oh trust me people know, were you aware that on the day of the Japanese Surrender an airforce Lieutennant named Fletcher prouty oversaw the redistribution of the US stockpile of arms assembled to invade japan, half were sent to North Korea and Half were sent to Vietnam, now where were the next two theatres of operation for the US after WW11??

Personally I don't believe that terrorism can be fought under war like circumstances,

QFT if we stopped bombing the sh!te out of their countries they'd probably do the same

but I also find it hard to believe that this war is all about natural resources.

Right, enlighten us so, what is this war about, and dont say spreading red hot shards of democracy

As I mentioned in an earlier post, if the cost of waging war were to be spent on resource exploration it would have been far more efficient and beneficial to the American nation.

see my post re oil prices, and do you really think any of this is being done for the benefit of the AMERICAN PEOPLE?????

Noone is a moron just because they don't agree with your opinions on either politics or religion, because noone ever agrees on those two subjects in particular. That's why you are not supposed to bring those topics up in general conversation. And believe it or not just because you may believe that you understand the intricacies of global politics, you probably don't. Otherwise you'd probably be earning a six figure salary for it.

So let's not bother resorting to name calling in future posts, eh?

its not about agreeing or disagreeing with my beliefs its about you making sweeping arrogant illinformed statements and then deleting all the evidence of your blinkered ignorance so that others cant see,

reminds me of the old addage

'Tis better to be silent and thought a fool, than speak and be known as one'

Mahatma coat · 15-08-2007 07:56AM

indough wrote:

None of the above is in fact logic. Logic is about making inference based on known facts. As far as I could make out most of the post above was mainly conjecture on your part.

Right, see the way I've broken your posts down into the Absurd, Ridiculious and Moronic and replied to each part individualy, please do me the same courtesy or Fcuk off

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/logic

Dictionary.com wrote:

1. the science that investigates the principles governing correct or reliable inference.
2. a particular method of reasoning or argumentation:
3. the system or principles of reasoning applicable to any branch of knowledge or study.
4. reason or sound judgment, as in utterances or actions:
5. convincing forcefulness; inexorable truth or persuasiveness:

Mahatma coat · 15-08-2007 08:08AM

indough wrote:

None of the above is in fact logic. Logic is about making inference based on known facts. As far as I could make out most of the post above was mainly conjecture on your part.

I shouldn't have deleted my posts but I was beginning to feel like I was under personal attack. Being called a mong and a twat for expressing a political view will do that to you though. If you really want to read them then just look back at other peoples posts, God knows they've been quoted enough. You can't expect to enter a debate at the end and quote what i've said several pages back anyway to be honest, the points had already been made and arguments had been presented by the people who were present on the board at the time.

I'm afraid the US doesn't dictate the price of oil, as far as I know OPEC is not incorporated into the US government.

yes I can, if I see something plainly stupid then I can call you out on it and reasonably expect you to have the Testicular Fortitude to back your statement, the Deletion of your posts is what irks me most

ALSO

stop editing your posts on the sly, if its important enough for you to say it then say it in a fresh post, dont try to sneak bits in later to try and save face

Reku · 15-08-2007 08:44AM

kowloon wrote:

Qualified Historian is a bit of bull$hitism to be throwing around.
In the handful of years one spends in an arts course (or most other college courses for that matter) only a percentage of that time is actually spent on any particular subject.
This amounts to a few hours a week until you whittle down your subjects.
Far from an all encompassing knowledge of recorded history methinks.
The true value of the degree is in learning how to approach history, interpretation and analysis of sources etc.
As for expert knowledge of the crusades, unless your dissertation was on that subject anyone whose hobby is reading up on that period is likely to have a better knowledge of the topic.
A lot of academics like to use their letters as a defence against presenting a proper argument.
If you cant hold the debate without resorting to childish "im a proper expert" arguments you probably have no idea what you're on about.
I have no problem with someone presenting their argument without their head stuck firmly up their own @rse.

Throw in the fact that anyone can claim to be anything here on the internet, as such until we see proof out here in the real world everything people say can be just filed under unlikely (what I've seen of your arguements Indough doesn't match the education you claim).

As for the US vs Iraq issue the thing I've always felt was the greatest indication of their intent:
Operation Iraqi Freedom = OIF
Strange that they'd use "Freedom" instead of "Liberation" (what with the US's claims of trying to liberate the Iraqis from their dictatorship) or would that just have been too obvious?:D
*Dang, beaten to it:

Mahatma coat wrote:

Fcuk I'm startin to sound like a conspiracy nut, you do know that they werre originaly going to call the war Operation Iraqi Liberation but when you make an acronym it gave the game away.

Throw in the fact of all the looting of museums and other places, after the fall of Saddam, that occured as troops were primarily dispatched to guard the oil fields and I think a clear pattern begins to emerge already.

joe_chicken · 15-08-2007 08:49AM

It's been at least 4 pages since someone has mentioned Madeleine.

C'mon people, get your priorities in order.

Pighead Vs Iraq

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