Patrick Devine loses pants in Senegal

connundrum · 14-08-2007 09:06AM #1

Patrick Devine can't keep his pants on apparently.Linky

Was doing a quick search for his bebo but can't find it yet, apparently he's become a worldwide hero

A story came on the news about how sikhs are wanting to wear their turbans as part of the Guarda reserve uniform - and we want them to play by our rules therefore they probably won't be allowed wear them.

Then the next story was about this lad and how unjust it was and that he should be let go from prison because after all, it was only a prank.

While I agree that his sentence hardly fits the crime, is it playing the 'our rules when it suits us' game?

godtabh · 14-08-2007 09:14AM

connundrum wrote:

Patrick Devine can't keep his pants on apparently.Linky

Was doing a quick search for his bebo but can't find it yet, apparently he's become a worldwide hero

A story came on the news about how sikhs are wanting to wear their turbans as part of the Guarda reserve uniform - and we want them to play by our rules therefore they probably won't be allowed wear them.

Then the next story was about this lad and how unjust it was and that he should be let go from prison because after all, it was only a prank.

While I agree that his sentence hardly fits the crime, is it playing the 'our rules when it suits us' game?

The sentence doesnt fit the crime by our standards but he didn't do it here.

Its his own tough luck he got caught and now he has to deal with it. If situations had been reversed and a foreigner did something he considered harmless but was against Irish law but not his own law should he get off?

digitally-yours · 14-08-2007 09:15AM

They will be allowed to wear turbans

Its a part of their religion. They dont take off their turban.

seamus · 14-08-2007 09:17AM

No it's not. We don't pull down our pants to moon as a matter of routine.
Pretty tenuous link

The Garda uniform doesn't include turbans, crosses, or any other religious nick-nacks. Your religious orientation is irrelevant, you're a Garda first and foremost when you wear the uniform.

DarkJager · 14-08-2007 09:20AM

Exactly. This whole religious clothing debate is getting ridiculous. If its not part of the standard uniform, then you're not wearing it. Plain and simple.

As for that Patrick Devine fella: How stupid can you get? He probably thought he was hilarious showing his pale scraggy arse in public. Not so funny now is it Patrick?? How many times do you think he's been back door burgled in prison already?

Terry · 14-08-2007 09:22AM

connundrum wrote:

While I agree that his sentence hardly fits the crime, is it playing the 'our rules when it suits us' game?

Indeed it is.

When in Rome...comes to mind.

This guy did an idiotic thing and ignorance of the law is not a defence (I know there was nothing there about him not knowing it was against the law, but just wait).

As for the Sikhs looking to wear turbans; wear the standard uniform or don't take the ****ing job. This is not an Islamic state (or a christian one or any other religion for that matter), so just play by the rules and get on with your life. You can wear the turban when you get home.

tallus · 14-08-2007 09:24AM

Terry wrote:

Indeed it is.

When in Rome...comes to mind.

This guy did an idiotic thing and ignorance of the law is not a defence (I know there was nothing there about him not knowing it was against the law, but just wait).

As for the Sikhs looking to wear turbans; wear the standard uniform or don't take the ****ing job. This is not an Islamic state (or a christian one or any other religion for that matter), so just play by the rules and get on with your life. You can wear the turban when you get home.

Seconded on both counts.

digitally-yours · 14-08-2007 09:25AM

seamus wrote:

No it's not. We don't pull down our pants to moon as a matter of routine.
Pretty tenuous link
The Garda uniform doesn't include turbans, crosses, or any other religious nick-nacks. Your religious orientation is irrelevant, you're a Garda first and foremost when you wear the uniform.

yes i know it does not includes. But if you want to incluge people who have turban as a part of their religion you cannot ask them to remove it

It will be discrimination.

Have a read here
http://www.garda.ie/angarda/pub/equality.pdf

I know its new thing here as foreign people are now getting into jobs in which there was never a foreign person.

In future i see loads of changes will be made. Same in UK Sikh people are allowed to carry "Kirpan" with them in public as its a part of their religion.

http://www.pluralism.org/news/article.php?id=9667

I am sure some of this will be reading this first time

but its true.

connundrum · 14-08-2007 09:27AM

seamus wrote:

No it's not. We don't pull down our pants to moon as a matter of routine.
Pretty tenuous link
The Garda uniform doesn't include turbans, crosses, or any other religious nick-nacks. Your religious orientation is irrelevant, you're a Garda first and foremost when you wear the uniform.

I thought it was a lovely link

/runs off to moon a statue of Seamus

seamus · 14-08-2007 09:39AM

digitally-yours wrote:

yes i know it does not includes. But if you want to incluge people who have turban as a part of their religion you cannot ask them to remove it

No, you can't ask them to remove it, but you can allow them to make that decision.

You remove the religious garb, or you don't get the job. It's quite simple really. I'm pretty sure that if I was a Garda and I wanted to leave a whole host of piercings in my face, there'd be an issue. What's the difference?

I'm sick and tired of religion being used as an excuse to be treated differently.

Terry · 14-08-2007 09:41AM

digitally-yours wrote:

yes i know it does not includes. But if you want to incluge people who have turban as a part of their religion you cannot ask them to remove it

It will be discrimination.

Have a read here
http://www.garda.ie/angarda/pub/equality.pdf

I know its new thing here as foreign people are now getting into jobs in which there was never a foreign person.

In future i see loads of changes will be made. Same in UK Sikh people are allowed to carry "Kirpan" with them in public as its a part of their religion.

http://www.pluralism.org/news/article.php?id=9667

I am sure some of this will be reading this first time but its true.

So Muktar is running after Anto and his turban falls off.
One of two things can happen here.

1. He stops to pick it up and Anto get away, meaning the turban is impractical to wear if oyu are a Garda.
2. He keeps running after Anto, meaning his job is more important to him and he didn't need to wear the turban in the first place.

Connundrum, you opened this can of worms. Don't try running away now.

Kintarō Hattori · 14-08-2007 09:46AM

I have to agree here. The Garda uniform does not display any religous items. You either deal with that fact or as other posters have said, you don't take the job.
Religion is such a cause of strife these days, that it should be left at home and not brought to the workplace, particuarly one where your highly visible and dealing with members of the public.

digitally-yours · 14-08-2007 09:49AM

Terry wrote:

So Muktar is running after Anto and his turban falls off.
One of two things can happen here.

1. He stops to pick it up and Anto get away.
2. He keeps running after Anto, meaning his job is more important and he didn't need to wear the turban in the first place.

How about anto running after Muktar and his trouser falls

Its easier to TYPE isnt it !

My friend if you dont understand a turban u cant comment on it.
I am not Sikh my self but i have friends and for your information if you check Airline Pilots or airforce in INDIA or UK they are allowed to wear it.

Your all theoury is based on the thing that you dont know about them.
Turben is not something that is placed on the head.There is a special way you wear it and it cannot come off easily.

You need travel to India or Canada or UK loads of Sikh people there.Very friendly people.If you dont judge the book by its cover you will learn more.

Terry · 14-08-2007 10:00AM

digitally-yours wrote:

How about anto running after Muktar and his trouser falls

Its easier to TYPE isnt it !

My friend if you dont understand a turban u cant comment on it.
I am not Sikh my self but i have friends and for your information if you check Airline Pilots or airforce in INDIA or UK they are allowed to wear it.

Your all theoury is based on the thing that you dont know about them.
Turben is not something that is placed on the head.There is a special way you wear it and it cannot come off easily.

You need travel to India or Canada or UK loads of Sikh people there.Very friendly people.If you dont judge the book by its cover you will learn more.

I'm not judging anyone here.
I'm sure they are nice people.

Pants are part of the standard Garda uniform. Turbans are not.

This is not India, Canada, the U.K. or anywhere else.
I'm drawing a ****ing line in the sand here.
We bowed to religion for too many years. That time is over now.
Religion will no longer dictate to us. We will dictate to religion.

digitally-yours · 14-08-2007 10:09AM

Terry wrote:

I'm not judging anyone here.
I'm sure they are nice people.

Pants are part of the standard Garda uniform. Turbans are not.

This is not India, Canada, the U.K. or anywhere else.
I'm drawing a ****ing line in the sand here.
We bowed to religion for too many years. That time is over now.
Religion will no longer dictate to us. We will dictate to religion.

Respect your opinion and you have every right to have your opinion.

Those people who wana respect their religion should have a right to do so.
I know Ireland is an Independent country and has its own law.I agree with it.

But time will come u will see Garda with turban
*Mark my words

Ghost Train · 14-08-2007 10:15AM

http://www.bebo.com/Profile.jsp?MemberId=919543688
even has a few nice senegal photos

digitally-yours · 14-08-2007 10:18AM

http://www.metroeireann.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=426&Itemid=50

A SIKH man training to become a Garda Reservist was told to remove his turban by a high-ranking garda if he wanted to commence station duty, Metro Eireann has learned.

The episode has led to a meeting between representatives of the Sikh community and An Garda Síochána.

A source from the Sikh community explained: “He was selected for training as a Garda Reservist – he passed all the exams and took the training, and now at the end of the training they told him he has to put on a cap rather than the turban.

“This person is working as an IT professional but he wanted to work as a volunteer in the Garda Reserve to give some service back to the community.”

The turban is a garment worn on the head by all practising Sikh men, for whom it is not an optional element of their religion (Sikh women can choose whether or not to wear the turban).

Turbans are worn by Sikh police officers in many other parts of the world. Police forces in the UK and Canada, for example, have specially-adapted turbans which incorporate their organisation’s insignia

In London in particular, the Metropolitan Police has been facilitating Sikh officers to wear turbans since the early 1970s.

“It will be an interesting topic to raise because at the first step of integration of the communities they [gardai] are failing,” said the source.

The news comes at an embarrassing time for An Garda Síochána, which is due to release its new booklet – Your Police Service in Intercultural Ireland – next week.

The booklet will be launched at Garda Headquarters in the Phoenix Park on Monday 23 July by Garda Commissioner Noel Conroy.

Under new rules introduced in 2005, applicants to An Garda Síochána must prove they are competent in two languages, at least one of which must be English or Irish. The rule alteration therefore removed the requirement for a qualification in Irish, a move aimed at encouraging more ethnic minorities to join the force.

At press time, a Garda spokesperson was unable to confirm whether or not the force have begun developing a turban to be worn by potential Sikh members.

Kintarō Hattori · 14-08-2007 10:21AM

digitally yours, as Terry has said, while they maybe allowed to wear the turban in the Uk and other places that shouldn't be the case here. Not because we don't respect their religion or anyone else's but because the workplace shouldn't be a place for religion.
The Garda don't promote or display religion in their professional role in any way, why should that change for ANY person or group? Political Correctness has to be stopped somewhere and this is as good a line to draw as any.

DarkJager · 14-08-2007 10:22AM

You know what they call that in China? :Tough ****. This is not an Islamic state and the gardai are not here to pander to believers of any religion. Turban may be required by their religion, but it is not and will never be part of the Garda uniform. You have to love how every single time this headress/burka/turban arguement pops up, some Muslim group has to have meetings with whoever banned it.

Kintarō Hattori · 14-08-2007 10:24AM

DarkJager wrote:

You know what they call that in China? :Tough ****. This is not an Islamic state and the gardai are not here to pander to believers of any religion. Turban may be required by their religion, but it is not and will never be part of the Garda uniform. You have to love how every single time this headress/burka/turban arguement pops up, some Muslim group has to have meetings with whoever banned it.

sikhs aren't muslim or islamic.

Slothy · 14-08-2007 10:35AM

If i created a new religion. Where you have to wear a phalic symbol on your head like , say a dildo or something.
Although it would offend some people........ but it was my religion could I wear it when wearing my Garda Uniform (if i was a garda).

Would the constitution protect me? as I am protected to carry out my religion.

DarkJager · 14-08-2007 10:37AM

Slothy wrote:

If i created a new religion. Where you have to wear a phalic symbol on your head like , say a dildo or something.
Although it would offend some people........ but it was my religion could I wear it when wearing my Garda Uniform (if i was a garda).

Would the constitution protect me? as I am protected to carry out my religion.

Maybe not but it could make a good replacement for a baton!

Imagine the headline "Cop stops robber with 13 inch dildo to the head"

Terry · 14-08-2007 10:37AM

“It will be an interesting topic to raise because at the first step of integration of the communities they [gardai] are failing,” said the source.

Wait.
So the Gardai are failing to integrate?
This is a joke, right?

It's the Sikhs who are failing to integrate.

seamus · 14-08-2007 10:37AM

Allowing a person to wear their religious garb is discrimination. Plain and simple. Applying the same rule to all officers, regardless of religion, sex or any other basis is the fairest way of doing it because nobody gets treated differently.

What other countries do is irrelevant.

These men do have a choice to wear the turban. Nobody is forcing them to wear it. If they decide, through their own free will, that wearing a turban is more important to them than joining the Gardai, then that's their decision to make.

Again, I make the point - if someone wanted to wear a pink tutu over their Garda uniform, they wouldn't be allowed. What's the difference?

Exit · 14-08-2007 10:59AM

Can we assume then that nobody in the Garda wears a cross around their neck? And that anybody that has been found with one has been told to remove it, or leave the force?

Kintarō Hattori · 14-08-2007 11:03AM

Exit wrote:

Can we assume then that nobody in the Garda wears a cross around their neck? And that anybody that has been found with one has been told to remove it, or leave the force?

A cross wouldn't be visible underneath their shirt and tie, unlike a turban. It's hardly the same.

seamus · 14-08-2007 11:08AM

Exit wrote:

Can we assume then that nobody in the Garda wears a cross around their neck? And that anybody that has been found with one has been told to remove it, or leave the force?

Any Garda who wears a cross outside of their uniform should have a choice - hide it, remove it, or leave the force.

jor el · 14-08-2007 11:19AM

I was just about to post something similar to what exit said, but as has been said in reply, everyone is free to show religious devotion as long as it doesn't interfere with their duties. The problem is that a Sikh's religious symbol (the Turban) is an externally worn item and rather hard to hide under your shirt. Should exemptions be made for them? Perhaps a special Turban with the Garda shield on it? Personally, I don't care for religions at all and I'm not bothered about any of this.

Now, back to the topic in hand, Paddy Pantsdown in Senegal. What he did was pretty stupid, mooning a Governor's house in an Islamic state. Spending the bones of a month in jail for it (and now in a prison) is a bit over the top. Sure he should have had more cop on but the authorities in Senegal don't seem to be cutting him any slack at all. Perhaps they're making an example of him so that other tourists/backpackers/etc will think twice before doing as the please in their country.

CantGetNoSleep · 14-08-2007 11:25AM

is there any sign of him getting out no? has he had any sort of trial or is he just looked of indefinately?

seamus · 14-08-2007 11:27AM

From a safety POV, anything whatsoever which singles out a Garda as a Sikh could only be a bad thing in this country. They'd be a target for scum.

Now, back to the topic in hand, Paddy Pantsdown in Senegal. What he did was pretty stupid, mooning a Governor's house in an Islamic state. Spending the bones of a month in jail for it (and now in a prison) is a bit over the top. Sure he should have had more cop on but the authorities in Senegal don't seem to be cutting him any slack at all. Perhaps they're making an example of him so that other tourists/backpackers/etc will think twice before doing as the please in their country.

While it seems harsh, and without knowing anything about the Sengalese legal system, IMO it's pretty much tough ****. Other countries have different laws. We know this, and we know that you won't get away with some of the stuff you'd get away with here. People can feel hard done by because it seems more harsh than what they're accustomed, but the simple fact is that it's not Ireland.

Other countries would put you to death for things which aren't even crimes here. By going to those countries, you accept these things.

There was a call yesterday for a "Hardship fund" for people imprisoned overseas. "They're isolated". Of course they are, they broke the ****ing law, now they have to deal with the consequences. It's not the Government's place to bail out people who've ****ed up in foreign countries.

Ghost Train · 14-08-2007 11:37AM

CantGetNoSleep wrote:

is there any sign of him getting out no? has he had any sort of trial or is he just looked of indefinately?

http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/local-national/article2859349.ece

Mr Devine will remain in custody until August 29.

Don't know if that means he'll be released then though

Patrick Devine loses pants in Senegal

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