Drinkers rights and threats to them

Dave! · 31-07-2007 09:27PM

Haven't read anything about this, but I would think it would be alot smarter to try and change attitudes to drink, and try to replace our culture with that of the spanish, french, italian, etc., rather than try to nanny us into stopping. It stinks of gobsh*te-ism. It's a word.

JC 2K3 · 31-07-2007 09:28PM

PeakOutput wrote:

you don't think its sad that the majority of people cannot have a good time at the weekends without the help of alcohol?

No, that's like saying that it's sad many people can't have a good time during the day on the weekends without watching sport on TV, which makes no sense.

Why should one activity be considered "sad" for no reason?

Also Starring LeVar Burton · 31-07-2007 10:58PM

Why are they trying to stop us have a good time?
I can go out and have a good night with or without alcohol, but usually when I go out to a house party or into town I wanna have a few drinks.
A lot of people have agreed the solution is stockpiling and I'm all for that. Makes a lot of sense anyway, buying in bulk.

Nailz · 31-07-2007 11:00PM

Bah!!!

PeakOutput · 31-07-2007 11:45PM

JC 2K3 wrote:

No, that's like saying that it's sad many people can't have a good time during the day on the weekends without watching sport on TV, which makes no sense.

Why should one activity be considered "sad" for no reason?

do you think it is sad that some people cannot relax unles they have a few spliffs or some people cannot enjoy a gig without a few pills?

JC 2K3 · 31-07-2007 11:52PM

PeakOutput wrote:

do you think it is sad that some people cannot relax unles they have a few spliffs or some people cannot enjoy a gig without a few pills?

No, do you think it's sad that some people cannot relax unless out socialising with friends or that some people can't enjoy a gig if they don't like the band that's playing?

What's so demonic about drugs anyway?

31-07-2007 11:54PM

JC 2K3 wrote:

No, do you think it's sad that some people cannot relax unless out socialising with friends or that some people can't enjoy a gig if they don't like the band that's playing?

What's so demonic about drugs anyway?

overdependence and alcohol-induced fights etc

Terry · 01-08-2007 12:04AM

JC 2K3 wrote:

No, do you think it's sad that some people cannot relax unless out socialising with friends or that some people can't enjoy a gig if they don't like the band that's playing?

What's so demonic about drugs anyway?

I saw this on the news last friday, but decided not to post it in the vain hope that someone else would.
I didn't expect any of the pro-cannabis lobby to mention it though.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/6917003.stm

cooperguy · 01-08-2007 12:06AM

I think its sad that the majority are being punished for the retarded few who dont know when to stop.

Terry wrote:

I saw this on the news last friday, but decided not to post it in the vain hope that someone else would.
I didn't expect any of the pro-cannabis lobby to mention it though.

1.1% of the population suffer from schizophrenia ( http://www.schizophrenia.com/szfacts.htm ) 40% on top of that is 1.5%. So if everybody on the planet started smoking cannabis the rate would only go up by a tiny amount (and thats only if everybody did it)

I dont smoke cannabis by the way I just dont like sensationalist headlines.

JC 2K3 · 01-08-2007 12:15AM

The annoying thing about those studies is their vague nature.

In any case:

But Professor Leslie Iverson, from the University of Oxford, said there was still no conclusive evidence that cannabis use causes psychotic illness.

"Their prediction that 14% of psychotic outcomes in young adults in the UK may be due to cannabis use is not supported by the fact that the incidence of schizophrenia has not shown any significant change in the past 30 years."

PeakOutput · 01-08-2007 12:18AM

JC 2K3 wrote:

No, do you think it's sad that some people cannot relax unless out socialising with friends or that some people can't enjoy a gig if they don't like the band that's playing?

What's so demonic about drugs anyway?

your comparisons are way way off

there is nothing demonic about drugs until you NEED them. the problem with ireland is the vast majority NEEDS alcohol to have a good time.

Terry · 01-08-2007 12:25AM

JC 2K3 wrote:

The annoying thing about those studies is their vague nature.

In any case:

I'm not going to get into this here because it's off topic and I'm tired.
Feel free to start a thread on it if you want.

JC 2K3 · 01-08-2007 12:27AM

But alcohol is widely available and in most cases causes no severe health problems. Why does it matter if some people need it to have a good time(an assertion you cannot prove, I might add)?

Stark · 01-08-2007 12:29AM

Ben Goldacre from the Guardian mentioned that cannabis thing on his blog:

http://www.badscience.net/?p=476
http://www.badscience.net/?p=471

His blog is generally worth a read.

Anyway, the off licenses thing is a dumb idea imo. Will do about as much good as closing the offies on Paddy's day.

01-08-2007 12:37AM

JC 2K3 wrote:

But alcohol is widely available and in most cases causes no severe health problems. Why does it matter if some people need it to have a good time(an assertion you cannot prove, I might add)?

It's easy enough to prove - check half the alcohol threads on AH :rolleyes:
And it matters quite a lot!

also

http://www.healthpromotion.ie/uploaded_docs/Irish_Drinking_Culture.PDF
http://www.vhi.ie/hfiles/hf-002.jsp

PeakOutput · 01-08-2007 12:40AM

JC 2K3 wrote:

But alcohol is widely available and in most cases causes no severe health problems. Why does it matter if some people need it to have a good time(an assertion you cannot prove, I might add)?

i cannot link you to a study if thats what you mean, but i can say that my personal experience, after having given up drink at different times mainly when i was saving for something and my friends would regularly say i dont know how you come out with us and enjoy yourself without a few drinks " i could never do it" or any other of the stupid comments from strangers that there is no possible way i could be having fun without having as much alcohol as them, would strongly back up my theory.

you see i think that you are seperating alcohol from other drugs simply because it is legal. its legal status has no bearing on my opinion of it. would you say the same if it was heroin we were talking about (pure heroin causes no physical damage to the body in itself). "sure whats the problem if they need heroin to have a good time its fine they arent harming anyone else"

the problem is that it is a mind altering substance that SHOULD be used in moderation. because of the attitude to it in this country it is not used in moderation(not even by me most of the time:D). there is not one factor that has caused this or that will solve it BUT it does need to be solved and until it is then we can expect to have more changes to the system of things in the future

po0k · 01-08-2007 12:57AM

PeakOutput wrote:

your comparisons are way way off

there is nothing demonic about drugs until you NEED them. the problem with ireland is the vast majority NEEDS alcohol to have a good time.

Bollocks.

meglome · 01-08-2007 01:19AM

I personally don't drink that often but when I do I like to make a go of it

It seems to me that we are learning our drinking habits off our parents and family. So at an early age we are sitting in the local park having a few drinks. So as someone from a working class Dublin area who was drinking with his mates at 12 I would make a few points.

1. Underage people all over the country seem to be able to get alcohol on a regular basis. So habits are already formed long before they hit 18. Off Licences and people who supply alcohol to minors should be given heavy fines, obviously it would need to be policed at all in the first place. (Not including drinking in a responsible way in the home).
2. When you are in a pub and have had a lot to drink generally they will keep selling you more unless you start a fight, have passed out or have puked on yourself. There are people all over town at the weekends pissed out of their heads after coming out of the pub. Pubs need to be actually policed so that they stop selling people more drink that shouldn't be given it.
3. Other places for people to go to. Other than the Cinema and the Theatre there is pretty much nowhere to go in town. I'd love a decent Ice rink for starters.

After saying that I like staying out late, this finishing up at 2:30 really pee's me off. Is it Fianna Fails cosy relationship with the publicans that not no one goes after those who are facilitating this drunkenness.

Reku · 01-08-2007 08:09AM

PeakOutput wrote:

i cannot link you to a study if thats what you mean, but i can say that my personal experience, after having given up drink at different times mainly when i was saving for something and my friends would regularly say i dont know how you come out with us and enjoy yourself without a few drinks " i could never do it" or any other of the stupid comments from strangers that there is no possible way i could be having fun without having as much alcohol as them, would strongly back up my theory.

My experiences would indicate a slightly worse mindset in that people seem to take offence at the fact that I'm happy to just drink minerals, the way they try so hard to convince me to have something alcoholic smacks more of them feeling that they can't enjoy themselves properly if anyone in the place is not drinking. I know alcohol screws up your thinking but how this collective mentality (even strangers have seen fit to bug me as to why I'm not drinking and wanted to buy me drinks) is worrying to say the least. It's no wonder we're not a particularly cultured lot, they don't serve beer in the theatre or museums so "how can these people enjoy themselves"...

BKtje · 01-08-2007 10:16AM

I know quite a few people who don't drink on nights out, or go on heavy drinking spells followed by a few months of being sober. The type of fun you have is slightly different but most people are good fun whether they are sober or drunk imo.

Personally i don't NEED alcohol to have a good time but i do generally enjoy myself more with a few pints in me. More relaxed or something.
That said i hate getting absolutely legless and generally try to avoid it.

PeakOutput · 01-08-2007 11:15AM

farohar wrote:

they can't enjoy themselves properly if anyone in the place is not drinking.

iv noticed that too i think its because as another poster said they think everyone else is drunk so they dont care what they do as no1 else will remember it but if they know your sober thay have to act more sober. I use it the opposite way i know 99% of the people there are drunk and they do not know if i am drunk or not so i do what i want anyway ie make a fool of myself on the dance floor etc etc

Terry · 01-08-2007 11:51AM

Meh.
There's no such thing as making a fool of yourself on the dance floor.
If you think that way, then you'll never do anything.
You'll find that anyone laughing at you will not be on the dancefloor themselves.

gizmo · 01-08-2007 12:19PM

Am I being naive or would simply enforcing that little thing called the Intoxicating Liquor Act mean that 24 hour drinking/staggered opening hours solution would work?

4.—(1) A licensee shall not, on the licensed premises—

(a) supply, or permit any person to supply, intoxicating liquor—
(i) to a drunken person, or
(ii) to any person for consumption by a drunken person;

(b) permit a drunken person to consume intoxicating liquor;

(c) permit drunkenness to take place in the bar; or

(d) admit any drunken person to the bar.

In this utopia where laws are actually upheld having the pubs open that long wouldn't really matter as drunks would be cut off from the pub they were in and would subsequently not be able to get served in any other pub.

Also, to expand on meglome's point, yes I believe we are learning our habits from our parents. For example, a mate recently pointed out to me that the only sacrament left these days that doesn't involve alcohol is the anointing of the sick. For a country that considers itself fairly religious seeing what goes on at the likes of kids communion and baptism and the usual wedding ****e, its no wonder kids are getting a warped view of how to drink and what constitutes social drinking.

JC 2K3 · 01-08-2007 01:59PM

PeakOutput wrote:

i cannot link you to a study if thats what you mean, but i can say that my personal experience, after having given up drink at different times mainly when i was saving for something and my friends would regularly say i dont know how you come out with us and enjoy yourself without a few drinks " i could never do it" or any other of the stupid comments from strangers that there is no possible way i could be having fun without having as much alcohol as them, would strongly back up my theory.

That's all talk. Take the alcohol away from them and see if they still have a good time. They probably would. they don't need it, but it's widely available and fun, so why not?

PeakOutput wrote:

you see i think that you are seperating alcohol from other drugs simply because it is legal.

Hell no, I hate that attitude.

PeakOutput wrote:

would you say the same if it was heroin we were talking about

I would, sure the only heroin/morphine addicts in the 50s/60s in Britain were very well respected doctors and scientists. Some were addicted for up to 60 years with no health consequences and without it interfering with their work.

PeakOutput wrote:

the problem is that it is a mind altering substance that SHOULD be used in moderation. because of the attitude to it in this country it is not used in moderation(not even by me most of the time:D).

But what are the real health consequences from it's overuse? And by "overuse" I mean the frequency of use by the average person. Sure it's been overused in such a manner for decades and there's been no massive reprecussions. In any case, my solution would not be to try and reduce our alcohol intake and replace it with sobriety, but rather make a variety of recreational drugs available and encourage people to vary which substances they take in a responsible manner.

Drinkers rights and threats to them

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