Drinkers rights and threats to them

Tha Gopher · 30-07-2007 11:13PM #1

Todays indo, the main headline talked of how Brian Lenihan is determined to clamp down on our drink culture, starting with a review of off licence opening times. As if it wasnt already bad enough that you cant buy a few beers if you happen upon a post club party, they are talking of further reducing off licence opening hours, fcuking disgraceful.

Got me thinking, is anyone else alarmed at what at times seems to be a gradual slide towards partial prohibition? Anyone feel the government is under pressure from parents groups or what have you who have watched a few too many Prime Time specials leading them to believe that Dublin on a Saturday night is like the eve of the apocolypse rather than being full of drunks who, although maybe a bit loud, in the vast majority of cases manage to have the craic and get home without collapsing, being run over, fighting, getting arrested or getting their stomach pumped?

Rb · 30-07-2007 11:25PM

They're effectively attempting to "parent" the adults who are legally entitled to part-take in these activities.

F*ck Fianna Fail and every single bastard that voted for them.

PeakOutput · 30-07-2007 11:32PM

like it or not alcohol will eventually go the way of cigarettes. im not saying in the near future but in around 50yrs (2/3 generations) i reckon we will ba facing prohibition imo its not a bad thing and i am a drinker.

BUT right now, i think off licences should be gone and drink sold in supermarkets with the whole supermarket getting closed if they sell to underage people. i think pubs should close at 12.30 as they do now and i think certain clubs in city centers should have the option of opening whenever they like with others stopping serving at 3-4am

this would make the reprocussions of selling to underagers very large, it would stagger opening times enough so that there would be no massive buld up of people in the cities like there is in dublin city now.

also a mandatory id card for EVERYONE over the age of 16 which can be scanned and show the details of the person by something along the lines of a hand held credit card machine. this would have far wider benefits than getting drink

The_Minister · 30-07-2007 11:34PM

rb_ie wrote:

F*ck Fianna Fail and every single bastard that voted for them.

LOL. You prefer Fine Gael, the mother of all nanny state parties? Whose former leader wanted to ban hoodies? Who want to randdomly drug-test school-goers?
This would be a bad decision to make, but not half as bad as what some other groups would want.

It probably won't happen though, it's probably just a pacifying statement to make the worriers think that "something is being done"

Tha Gopher · 30-07-2007 11:40PM

tbh I think/hope that the government of 5o years time (composed of todays young kids and even those not yet born) would have more sense than to do phase out alcohol.

As for cigs, its an addictive drug with absoloutely no social lubrication or relaxation benefits unless you are already addicted to it. A law by 2010 along the lines of having to prove by a permit or something that you were born after a certain date in 1992 in order to buy smokes is fine by me. Prevents the current users going completely cold turkey, and somewhat limits the younger access of those born, lets say, post 1995 at best to a lethal, addictive and completely and utterly pointless drug.

Mossy Monk · 30-07-2007 11:41PM

PeakOutput wrote:

i think pubs should close at 12.30 as they do now and i think certain clubs in city centers should have the option of opening whenever they like with others stopping serving at 3-4am

Why the exception for city center pubs?

Rb · 30-07-2007 11:44PM

Tha Gopher wrote:

As for cigs, its an addictive drug with absoloutely no social lubrication or relaxation benefits unless you are already addicted to it. .

Wrong.

JIZZLORD · 30-07-2007 11:46PM

we're all doomed, they wont listen to us as we're underprivlidged drunkards and such.

PeakOutput · 30-07-2007 11:46PM

Mossy Monk wrote:

Why the exception for city center pubs?

i didnt say anything about city center pubs i think all pubs should close at 12.30

clubs(dance floor live music djs etc) should stay open to the times i said. the reason i said this is,i think, because i dont like the idea of the pub ie sit and drink(and socialise obviously but people can do that anywhere they go to a pub to drink) whereas in a club they can listen to the music go dancing or whatever. but then i dont like pubs in general so im sure im biased against them

PeakOutput · 30-07-2007 11:49PM

Tha Gopher wrote:

its an addictive drug with absoloutely no social lubrication or relaxation benefits

i dont see a necessity for a drug that does the above either so they are both pointless imo. i enjoy drinking but i dont do it to make it easier to socialise or relax which is probably were my view will differ to most's

The_Minister · 30-07-2007 11:50PM

Tha Gopher wrote:

As for cigs, its an addictive drug with absoloutely no social lubrication or relaxation benefits

Have to agree with RB_ie. You are wrong, so wrong.

stepbar · 30-07-2007 11:50PM

What the fcuk is it going to matter? It will just mean that I will either do

A) Buy my beer earlier
or

Stockpile

Its laughable what the Government are trying to do. If its the kids they are trying to protect, well mammy and daddy should be the first point of call. However me thinks some of them are too sloshed in the evenings (drinking wine to relieve the pressures of 9-5) to care what Tom and Mary get up to.

sioda · 30-07-2007 11:51PM

PeakOutput wrote:

i didnt say anything about city center pubs i think all pubs should close at 12.30

God no bring back the late drinking on a Thursday and let pubs open till they want. There comes a time when all you want is a decent pint and not to be roaring accross a romm or club at someone so why not let the pubs open as late as the niteclubs.

A number of pubs here in Limerick have implemented late opening and its fantastic decent pints at 1.30 in the morning not crap thrown at you while you shout for another one

Venom · 30-07-2007 11:52PM

Sounds to me like the brown envelops are making the rounds again

Off-License trade has never been at a higher level compared to pub business being at such a low level so looks like the vinters are just trying to stack the deck.

PeakOutput · 30-07-2007 11:53PM

sioda wrote:

God no bring back the late drinking on a Thursday and let pubs open till they want. There comes a time when all you want is a decent pint and not to be roaring accross a romm or club at someone so why not let the pubs open as late as the niteclubs.

A number of pubs here in Limerick have implemented late opening and its fantastic decent pints at 1.30 in the morning not crap thrown at you while you shout for another one

thats a good point actually......hmmmmmmmm what to do now

edit; iv got the solution those cafe bars they wanted to bring in a while back but instead they caved to the pressure of the pubs. they should be open 24 hours too

FlutterinBantam · 30-07-2007 11:55PM

Typical Irish solution to an Irish problem.

Some Dutch geezer in a thread about "typical Irish" said "The Irish don't know when to stop"

How right he/she was.

We can't go for a quiet drink without it turning into a session.

We horse drink into us like there is no tomorrow.

One of the biggest crimes in Ireland is not to "stand your round" Perpetuated by every publican in the land

We are afraid to drink a bottle of beer at midday in case we cannot leave the pub to go back to work.

For fcuks sake when will we get an adult approach to drink and drink it for its enjoyment and not for proving manhood/womanhood.steamerhood or what ever other "hood" our immature society thinks fit.

PeakOutput · 30-07-2007 11:58PM

FlutterinBantam wrote:

Typical Irish solution to an Irish problem.

Some Dutch geezer in a thread about "typical Irish" said "The Irish don't know when to stop"

How right he/she was.

We can't go for a quiet drink without it turning into a session.

We horse drink into us like there is no tomorrow.

One of the biggest crimes in Ireland is not to "stand your round" Perpetuated by every publican in the land

We are afraid to drink a bottle of beer at midday in case we cannot leave the pub to go back to work.

For fcuks sake when will we get an adult approach to drink and drink it for its enjoyment and not for proving manhood/womanhood.steamerhood or what ever other "hood" our immature society thinks fit.

you are right and it will change when people can get drink at any time they want(from the right places)............it will be bedlam for 6-12 months then the novelty will have worn off, people will have realised they cant do a days work after getting home from the pub at 8am on monday morning and things will get to a stage where drink is not an issue

sioda · 31-07-2007 12:03AM

The 24 hour drinking will work as has been said it will be a novelty but soon people will run short of cash sick days and bosses paitence and see the light of day.

24 hour opening will of course not suit all places but will give the opportunity for others to regulate the release of crowds onto the street and cut down on the amount of drunken ASB floating around.

Tha Gopher · 31-07-2007 12:10AM

rb_ie wrote:

Wrong.

Really? The only thing i can think of is that people get to know each other in work smoking areas, and its the only reason i regret not smoking them (because people in work know i dont smoke, if i was to go on smoke breaks tomorrow it would be blinfgly obvious im only there trying to pull some bird who uses it, and she or her friends would realise my intent straight away) Bar/club smoking areas? Indeed it does, but its more due to the fact its away from the loud music than anything. I go out, few drinks in me, smoke a fag just to fit in with and hopefully get chatting to a bird, tbh id rate it as a mix of drink and the fact your in a place you can hold conversation without shouting in someones ear more than anything. Apart from the above its almost entirely pointless socially. If smoking was barred in clubs but they kept the smoking areas just so you could relax and get some air, does that mean fresh air is the mutually binding activity that replaces it? It could be argued on this basis that, if it becomes common activity within the social group you hang out with, heroin is a social lubricant. So is an obsessive knowledge of Star Trek, train spotting, bird watching or pretty much any other activity no matter how odd or nerdy, if it is the primary activity of a large group of your friends or work colleagues. Of course, some are more likely to bring you into contact with better types of people than the activities mentioned above. And some of these (alcohol anyway) are less addictive and life consuming than nicotine or heroin.

As for relaxing, again, not unless you are already addicted. Tobacco doesnt have any effect on anyone i can think of if they arent already a long term smoker. Smoking seems to simply bring them to the regular state the rest of us are in, a lack of nic0otine denies them this feeling. For an alcoholic on the other hand, they are largely depressed with their "normal" state, drink is what brings them to a happy, or at least a less stressed, state of mind. I smoke hash, and a cigarette on its own has absoloutely no effect on my state (for those wondering of the contradiction, if tobacco was banned id simply roll it with some type of herb or whatever). When the droughts hit like this time last summer, yes, I want a spliff, but tobacco does absoloutely nothing to take away this craving, you simply sit it out for a few days and, although you would like a joint, the actual physical craving for one is gone after maybe 4 odd days, it becomes a want, not a necessity.

Venom · 31-07-2007 12:15AM

PeakOutput wrote:

you are right and it will change when people can get drink at any time they want(from the right places)............it will be bedlam for 6-12 months then the novelty will have worn off, people will have realised they cant do a days work after getting home from the pub at 8am on monday morning and things will get to a stage where drink is not an issue

24 hour drinking is the way to go but I dont think it will be choas for as long as you seem to think. Just because a pub will serve you booze 24 hours a day dosent mean they will if you have no money

I reckon 2-3 weeks tops is all the chaos will last and 2.5 weeks of that will be waiting for the taxis and buses to wise up lol.

PeakOutput · 31-07-2007 12:16AM

Tha Gopher wrote:

For an alcoholic on the other hand, they are largely depressed with their "normal" state, drink is what brings them to a happy, or at least a less stressed, state of mind.

this is short lived though as alcohol is a downer not an upper. alcohol is equally as damaging as cigarettes in my opinion the only difference is its not as physically addictive but there are hundreds of thousands of people in ireland who are not alcoholics but are mentally addicted to alcohol in some form or another i dont see this as acceptable either really

24 hour drinking is the way to go but I dont think it will be choas for as long as you seem to think. Just because a pub will serve you booze 24 hours a day dosent mean they will if you have no money I reckon 2-3 weeks tops is all the chaos will last and 2.5 weeks of that will be waiting for the taxis and buses to wise up lol.

i dont mean 24/7 bedlam i just meant that fridays and saturdays will be nuts for that long before the majority of people will realise that 12 -24 hour sessions are not for them and they will go back to their old routine but without the pressure to get the drinks in before last orders. either way however long it is i think its worth it in the long run

Agamemnon · 31-07-2007 12:19AM

rb_ie wrote:

They're effectively attempting to "parent" the adults who are legally entitled to part-take in these activities.

F*ck Fianna Fail and every single bastard that voted for them.

LOL at this and the naive assumption that Fine Gael would have a more enlightened, libertarian attitude. Some of their TDs were floating the idea of banning alcohol advertising altogether, as if that would really change anything.

sioda wrote:

God no bring back the late drinking on a Thursday and let pubs open till they want. There comes a time when all you want is a decent pint and not to be roaring accross a room or club at someone so why not let the pubs open as late as the niteclubs.

Great idea, hope this is rolled out across the country. There's less trouble in pubs than clubs and staggered closing hours would mean less of a crowd on the streets at the same time, less trouble and better chance of getting a taxi.

Tha Gopher · 31-07-2007 12:23AM

Most smokers i know would leave any workplace which brought in a rule banning smoking on breaks, even if off premises. People in the few companies that allow a lunchtime pint wouldnt like a new rule banning lunchtime moderate drinking, but few if any would leave (unless maybe in the construction trade, any other field they would find trouble finding another job that would allow it so theyd have to live with it). I think it shows most smokers have more of a problem controlling their usage than 19 year olds who work for 5 days and get pissed on Friday and Saturday night having not touched a drop all week.

re 24 hour drinking, in the country starting a drinking session at midday Saturday, ending at 4am and kicking off again at 1pm for the prem or gah matches on Sunday is pretty much the norm. Ive a feeling we are just too well built to be allowed 24 hour drinking

Infact id be willing to bet a popular basis for a session would be to attempt a midday Saturday to midday Sunday session non stop.

PeakOutput · 31-07-2007 12:23AM

agamemnon wrote:

LOL at this and the naive assumption that Fine Gael would have a more enlightened, libertarian attitude. Some of their TDs were floating the idea of banning alcohol advertising altogether, as if that would really change anything.

id be in favour of banning advertisements for alcohol. i havnt seen any studies but i assume that banning ads for ciggies had a positive impact. drinks ads are not as bad as ciggie ads were in that they were jsut ridicolous how much they glamourised smoking but i dont think there is a need for an ad that makes alcohol appear the norm for socialising

cson · 31-07-2007 12:30AM

Abolishing closing times (24 hour drinking) as a lot of you have said seems like a forward step to me. I think it can only help the situation, it would perhaps stop the mindless **** that goes on after the pubs and moreso clubs close, its very messy sometimes.

Agamemnon · 31-07-2007 12:33AM

PeakOutput wrote:

id be in favour of banning advertisements for alcohol. i havnt seen any studies but i assume that banning ads for ciggies had a positive impact. drinks ads are not as bad as ciggie ads were in that they were jsut ridicolous how much they glamourised smoking but i dont think there is a need for an ad that makes alcohol appear the norm for socialising

But drink ads aren't allowed to show people getting happily drunk. That's why most alcohol ads are so trippy they seem to be about LSD rather than booze. I'm not old enough to remember tv ads for cigs but I know they had similar restrictions placed on them in their final years.

The great majority of people who drink start because their peers are doing it, not because of tv. Same with smoking.

Tha Gopher · 31-07-2007 12:38AM

They are also not allowed to show ads which imply drinking alcohol could possibly increase your chances of pulling members of the opposite sex (sure, theres the Heineken hotel ad where hes served by the cute bar girl, or the Coors light one where the trucker stops for the girls beach volleyball team, these types are allowed as the participants arent shown to have actually drank said drink at the time. Bizarre I know but thats the rubbish rules they have for it)

The above is a bit like banning an ad for BMW which implies that they are a car capable of reaching a fast speed. Bulmers and Guiness routinely show groups of friends of both sexes relaxing with pints, but actually getting some in the ad while drinking ist verboten. Mad.

PeakOutput · 31-07-2007 12:38AM

agamemnon wrote:

But drink ads aren't allowed to show people getting happily drunk. That's why most alcohol ads are so trippy they seem to be about LSD rather than booze. I'm not old enough to remember tv ads for cigs but I know they had similar restrictions placed on them in their final years.

The great majority of people who drink start because their peers are doing it, not because of tv. Same with smoking.

really??? i could of sworn carlsberg, miller and the one vinny jones advertises for recently had ads were people were at parties drinking but come to think of it i cant remember seeing anyone with an actual drink so maybe my mind filled in the blanks itself

either way at the end of the day the ad's are not going to help the situation no matter how subtle they are so just get rud of them.

Rabies · 31-07-2007 12:39AM

sioda wrote:

The 24 hour drinking will work as has been said it will be a novelty but soon people will run short of cash sick days and bosses paitence and see the light of day.

24 hour opening will of course not suit all places but will give the opportunity for others to regulate the release of crowds onto the street and cut down on the amount of drunken ASB floating around.

24hr licensing does work. It would take a while to Irish people to adjust but I'm sure it work fine.
Over here we have 24hr bars, but most close at 3-5am on weekends and anytime from 10pm-2pm week days. If you ever want to carry on the party there is always a place to go.
late bars stop people from knocking back drink when closing time is almost upon them. If a bar closes, you just move on.
Because of the staggered closing time in Auckland it is very easy to get a taxi home at the end of the night. Taxi drivers are openly hunting down fares. No big queues for food, very few fights on the streets.
Much better night time experience that Dublin or anywhere in Ireland.

sioda · 31-07-2007 01:06AM

Rabies I look forward to being in Auckland in the new year

the_syco · 31-07-2007 02:04AM

Tha Gopher wrote:

Tobacco doesnt have any effect on anyone i can think of if they arent already a long term smoker. Smoking seems to simply bring them to the regular state the rest of us are in, a lack of nic0otine denies them this feeling.

Know the high you get from a spliff? Know the way that lasts for a few hours? A calm smoke can get me into that same frame of mind. I've gone without smoking for a few sometimes, mainly cos I either forget to buy tobacco, or I forget to smoke. I've gone four months without a smoke. So that throws your "no smoke = not regular state" theory out the window.

I do agree on the way the smoking area rules, though.

=-=

24 hour drinking would mean a way of getting home would be harder. If the last bus is at 4:30am, and the next bus is at 8am, the only option is to keep drinking.

=-=

Tha Gopher wrote:

Infact id be willing to bet a popular basis for a session would be to attempt a midday Saturday to midday Sunday session non stop.

This would actually be a sweet deal except for one thing: we'd all rush from the pub 20 minutes before the local chippers close, eat, and then all go home.

Drinkers rights and threats to them

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