Dublin Bus Routes 15B/C & 74/A

Luckycharm · 23-05-2007 10:29AM

KC61 wrote:

Unfortunately the Templeogue QBC has two pinch points in Terenure and Rathmines that, short of demolishing buildings and rebuilding the villages, are going to cause traffic problems - all that can really be done is to tinker with the traffic, such as on Templeogue Road where the traffic queue is relocated back to where buses can still get past.

The problem in Terenure is the Traffic lights which are totally out of Sync, often the traffic lights at rathdown Motors are green while the Traffic lights 40ms ahead at Terenure Crossroads are Red so the traffic can go no where this is very infuriating - surely the Corpo can sort out these lights so that they are both in Sync!!
So does the 74s finish on Eden Quay? Do they go via Stephens green or down Georges st?
Also I presume at the start of the route for the 74A there are putting in more bus stops is there going to be one on Stocking lane as cannot see anywhere where it would be safe to stop?

Xylophonic · 23-05-2007 10:41AM

Luckycharm wrote:

So does the 74s finish on Eden Quay? Do they go via Stephens green or down Georges st?

Yes they operate the same way as the 15's from Rathmines.

KC61 · 23-05-2007 10:59AM

Luckycharm wrote:

The problem in Terenure is the Traffic lights which are totally out of Sync, often the traffic lights at rathdown Motors are green while the Traffic lights 40ms ahead at Terenure Crossroads are Red so the traffic can go no where this is very infuriating - surely the Corpo can sort out these lights so that they are both in Sync!!
So does the 74s finish on Eden Quay? Do they go via Stephens green or down Georges st?
Also I presume at the start of the route for the 74A there are putting in more bus stops is there going to be one on Stocking lane as cannot see anywhere where it would be safe to stop?

The real problem with Terenure is that you have (as in the case of Rathmines) two sets of junctions beside one another, with five roads of almost equal traffic joining/crossing. How do you prioritise?

A very long green on Terenure Place to Terenure Road East allowing traffic first from Terenure Road West and then Templeogue Road to pass through, but then holding traffic from Terenure Road North and Rathfarnham Road for a significant period? Or shorter periods of green for each route?

It's a tough one!

Doodah7 · 23-05-2007 12:00PM

KC61 wrote:

The real problem with Terenure is that you have (as in the case of Rathmines) two sets of junctions beside one another, with five roads of almost equal traffic joining/crossing. How do you prioritise?

A very long green on Terenure Place to Terenure Road East allowing traffic first from Terenure Road West and then Templeogue Road to pass through, but then holding traffic from Terenure Road North and Rathfarnham Road for a significant period? Or shorter periods of green for each route?

It's a tough one!

I would suggest that there should be a long green on INBOUND routes in the morning. There is very little traffic going outbound on Terenure Road East in the mornings for example. Obviously it would be the reverse in the evening. I don't see why traffic lights have to be same morning and evening. I know for example that traffic light timings change considerably during the night compared to their daytime settings.

With regard to Victor's comments on Rathmines, removing the traffic island and ancillary brickage (?) on the road would create room for cars to go straight at the junction of Charleston Ave. (the old cinema). This is only a new phenomenen. It is only about three years or so when the Council forced traffic to merge into one lane at those lights. Congestion increased accordingly. Before that the two lanes ran right up to the junction and traffic flowed far better. A return to the original layout of this junction could allow a bus lane to work.

Obviously sitting on the bus every morning gives one plenty of time to think about these things!!

KC61 · 23-05-2007 12:11PM

tallpaul wrote:

I would suggest that there should be a long green on INBOUND routes in the morning. There is very little traffic going outbound on Terenure Road East in the mornings for example. Obviously it would be the reverse in the evening. I don't see why traffic lights have to be same morning and evening. I know for example that traffic light timings change considerably during the night compared to their daytime settings.

But think about your suggestion further for a minute!

A long green at Terenure Place automatically means Terenure Road East has a green too! That's not the problem. The problem is two busy routes merging into one and then crossing another busy route.

If you leave a long green on Terenure Place (allowing traffic from Terenure Road West and Templeogue Road priority) then inbound traffic on Rathfarnham Road will be backed up, causing problems at the Bushy Park Road/Rathdown Park junction and the junction at Dodder Park Road!

There are three inbound routes (2 QBC's) and all of them have very large traffic flows. You prioritise one - another is hit! Not an easy one to solve!

AlekSmart · 23-05-2007 12:18PM

TallPaul,your suggestions have the smack of sense about them and therefore are unlikely ever to be adopted as public policy...except perhaps under a dictatorship.

The reason for the Islands and associated "Bricage" is most likely down to some Local Authority committment to improving the Pedestrian Experience and slowing down the Traffic Speeds.

The same situation exists in O Connell St where after spending in excess of €50 Million on Improvements to the PEDESTRIAN elements of the Street,the City Administration is faced with a Public who dont want to Walk any distance on it....In fact the Public clamour for more Bus Stops as the walk from Cathal Brugha St to Abbey St is far too long for any human to endure....

Once again,No clear central plan,no idea as to what was actually required and even less recognition that when dealing with Mass Human Movement either Pedestrian or in Vehicles,some strong firm guidance is required.
None of that apparent here as we Hurl away on our national Ditch !!

Luckycharm · 23-05-2007 01:10PM

KC61 wrote:

But think about your suggestion further for a minute!

A long green at Terenure Place automatically means Terenure Road East has a green too! That's not the problem. The problem is two busy routes merging into one and then crossing another busy route.

If you leave a long green on Terenure Place (allowing traffic from Terenure Road West and Templeogue Road priority) then inbound traffic on Rathfarnham Road will be backed up, causing problems at the Bushy Park Road/Rathdown Park junction and the junction at Dodder Park Road!

There are three inbound routes (2 QBC's) and all of them have very large traffic flows. You prioritise one - another is hit! Not an easy one to solve!

You could alternate Long greens at the moment from Templeogue road anyway it is pointless the lights changing to green as there is no where for the traffic to go as the next junction is Red 40ms ahead.
Also while I am it the QBC on ballyboden road up to the Tuning fork is pointless too as never busy along that stretch and runs into a bottle neck from the Tuning fork up to the Yellow house.

BennytheBall · 10-06-2007 09:14PM

Any word on when in June the frequency of the 74 is going to be upgraded ?

maxheadroom · 10-06-2007 11:31PM

Luckycharm wrote:

You could alternate Long greens at the moment from Templeogue road anyway it is pointless the lights changing to green as there is no where for the traffic to go as the next junction is Red 40ms ahead.
Also while I am it the QBC on ballyboden road up to the Tuning fork is pointless too as never busy along that stretch and runs into a bottle neck from the Tuning fork up to the Yellow house.

You may find this interesting, its dublin city councils review of traffic management in terenure: http://www.dublincity.ie/living_in_the_city/getting_around/by_car/traffic_management/traffic_management_in_the_terenure_area.asp

KC61 · 11-06-2007 08:17AM

BennytheBall wrote:

Any word on when in June the frequency of the 74 is going to be upgraded ?

None as yet - changes tend to be advised with a minimum of notice to passengers as soon as departmental approval and staff agreement to rosters are achieved.

Keep an eye on www.dublinbus.ie - changes historically have appeared on the Friday before the Sunday that the change becomes operative. Of late, however, notification of changes have appeared earlier in the week with the timetables appearing on Friday.

KC61 · 15-06-2007 11:17AM

The changes are in the final stage of preparation at the moment I understand, and *should* come into operation in the next few weeks pending driver agreement to new rosters.

They basically include:
Route 15 - Extra buses
Route 15A - Extra buses
Route 15B - Extra buses and extension to Whitechurch Estate from Ballyroan
Route 15C - Cancelled
Route 15E - No change
Route 15F - No change
Route 15X - No change
Route 49 - No longer to serve Woodstown Roundabout, operating via Ballycullen Road and then right onto Ballycullen Drive and then as at present to Old Bawn Road, diverting via Firhouse Riad West and Whitestown Way to the Square.
Route 74 - To operate all day
Route 74A - To operate all day

Routes 15/A/B will all get increased running time which should improve reliability.

The net result - A better service for all, with Whitechurch getting far increased frequency but a slightly longer route, however the 74A will only be a reasonably short walk away.

maxheadroom · 15-06-2007 05:59PM

KC61 wrote:

Route 15 - Extra buses

Routes 15/A/B will all get increased running time which should improve reliability.

The net result - A better service for all, with Whitechurch getting far increased frequency but a slightly longer route, however the 74A will only be a reasonably short walk away.

Any word on whether or not they're addressing the ridiculous gaps of ~1hr in the 15 timetable, or will the new buses be used purely to allow the existing timetable to be somewhat accurate?

KC61 · 15-06-2007 09:02PM

maxheadroom wrote:

Any word on whether or not they're addressing the ridiculous gaps of ~1hr in the 15 timetable, or will the new buses be used purely to allow the existing timetable to be somewhat accurate?

Frequency on the 15 and 15B will increase, and there will be a completely new schedule on all routes, with the additional running time improving reliability.

Prof_V · 15-06-2007 09:42PM

Other rumours I've seen circulating include diverting the 49 through Aylesbury, a new local service between Ballycullen and Tallaght, and changes to the 161 - are any of these included in the current proposals?

KC61 · 16-06-2007 12:50AM

Prof_V wrote:

Other rumours I've seen circulating include diverting the 49 through Aylesbury, a new local service between Ballycullen and Tallaght, and changes to the 161 - are any of these included in the current proposals?

The 49 will indeed divert via Aylesbury, and then straight to the Square (apologies - I let that one slip above). I believe a local service to Ballycullen is in the plan also, but I can't confirm.

The 161 is a Donnybrook route and is not affected by the current changes which are all Ringsend based.

Xylophonic · 16-06-2007 01:37AM

The Ballycullen service is rumored to be the 203. I heard about the 161 being extended to Dundrum Town Centre around 6 months ago, but have heard nothing of it since.

Prof_V · 16-06-2007 05:21PM

KC61 wrote:

The 49 will indeed divert via Aylesbury, and then straight to the Square (apologies - I let that one slip above).

You didn't - it's just that I managed to miss the Firhouse Road West bit:o . Is the only bit of the 49 route through Ballycullen that's being cut the last stretch up to Woodstown? There were some rumours it would avoid the Ballycullen Road completely and revert to the old Firhouse Road route.

KC61 · 16-06-2007 10:38PM

Prof_V wrote:

You didn't - it's just that I managed to miss the Firhouse Road West bit:o . Is the only bit of the 49 route through Ballycullen that's being cut the last stretch up to Woodstown? There were some rumours it would avoid the Ballycullen Road completely and revert to the old Firhouse Road route.

That's my understanding yes - the stretch up to Woodstown is the only section being dropped.

Pansy Potter · 21-06-2007 09:43AM

KC61 wrote:

The changes are in the final stage of preparation at the moment I understand, and *should* come into operation in the next few weeks pending driver agreement to new rosters.

They basically include:
Route 15 - Extra buses
Route 15A - Extra buses
Route 15B - Extra buses and extension to Whitechurch Estate from Ballyroan
Route 15C - Cancelled
Route 15E - No change
Route 15F - No change
Route 15X - No change
Route 49 - No longer to serve Woodstown Roundabout, operating via Ballycullen Road and then right onto Ballycullen Drive and then as at present to Old Bawn Road, diverting via Firhouse Riad West and Whitestown Way to the Square.
Route 74 - To operate all day
Route 74A - To operate all day

Routes 15/A/B will all get increased running time which should improve reliability.

The net result - A better service for all, with Whitechurch getting far increased frequency but a slightly longer route, however the 74A will only be a reasonably short walk away.

I'm surprised to see that the 15X is to remain unchanged. I would have thought it would share the fate of the 15C. Since the 1700 74A was introduced from Eden Quay, I have been getting that all the time, and have never seen a 15X since as they are never up to Eden Quay by 5 o'clock. I notice most of the passengers on that particular 74A were 15X regulars who have also sacrificed the so called Express for a more guaranteed 1700 departure. The impression was always there that Dublin Bus wanted rid of the 15X, and I'd have thought that the 74A would have finally killed it off.
Like an earlier poster I believe the 15X should be retained, but starting from Eden Quay (no one uses it from Belfield to town!) and avoiding Bushy Park Road on the outbound journey.

EamonnZ · 27-07-2007 11:49AM

Attached update from Dublin Bus.

I have written to all sitting TD's within the area in relation to this and have asked for clarification.

Regards,

Eamonn Zaidan

Luckycharm · 27-07-2007 01:42PM

KC61 wrote:

The changes are in the final stage of preparation at the moment I understand, and *should* come into operation in the next few weeks pending driver agreement to new rosters.

They basically include:
Route 15 - Extra buses
Route 15A - Extra buses
Route 15B - Extra buses and extension to Whitechurch Estate from Ballyroan
Route 15C - Cancelled
Route 15E - No change
Route 15F - No change
Route 15X - No change
Route 49 - No longer to serve Woodstown Roundabout, operating via Ballycullen Road and then right onto Ballycullen Drive and then as at present to Old Bawn Road, diverting via Firhouse Riad West and Whitestown Way to the Square.
Route 74 - To operate all day
Route 74A - To operate all day

Routes 15/A/B will all get increased running time which should improve reliability.

The net result - A better service for all, with Whitechurch getting far increased frequency but a slightly longer route, however the 74A will only be a reasonably short walk away.

Living up near Woodstown just to clarify we are losing the 49 going up there, so is it going to be replaced by another bus that goes to the Square or even Dundrum would be better.
When will the 74s be going all and at w/ends?

Heart · 27-07-2007 06:18PM

Wasn't there supposed to be a 203 from Woodstown to The Square also?

H

GerardKeating · 27-07-2007 07:38PM

KC61 wrote:

That's my understanding yes - the stretch up to Woodstown is the only section being dropped.

Any idea when the 49 changes roll out ?

KC61 · 27-07-2007 11:32PM

All the changes will take place at the same time.

I understand there are some internal issues relating to the increased service to/from Whitechurch Estate with the 15B being extended there. Drivers are apparently concerned about the possibility of buses regularly passing on Whitechurch Road which is not wide enough for 2 accessible buses to pass without one going up on the footpath.

Hence the delay!

frodi · 28-07-2007 10:11AM

KC61 wrote:

All the changes will take place at the same time.

I understand there are some internal issues relating to the increased service to/from Whitechurch Estate with the 15B being extended there. Drivers are apparently concerned about the possibility of buses regularly passing on Whitechurch Road which is not wide enough for 2 accessible buses to pass without one going up on the footpath.

Hence the delay!

Is this for real?
I use Whitechurch Rd at least twice every day and the 15C doesn't seem to have too much trouble. It's usually the same bus going up and then back down Whitechurch Rd. The problem of two buses passing only applies to a 50metre stretch of the road. It hasn't stopped the 15C or the 161 so why affect the 15B.
HGVs don't seem to have a problem so what's special about buses?

Prof_V · 28-07-2007 12:22PM

frodi wrote:

Is this for real?
I use Whitechurch Rd at least twice every day and the 15C doesn't seem to have too much trouble. It's usually the same bus going up and then back down Whitechurch Rd. The problem of two buses passing only applies to a 50metre stretch of the road. It hasn't stopped the 15C or the 161 so why affect the 15B.
HGVs don't seem to have a problem so what's special about buses?

Although I think issues like this usually get blown out of all proportion and used as proxies for the chronic mistrust between unions and management, there may be something to it in this case. The 15B is more frequent than the 15C, so it couldn't really operate on the one-bus-in, one-bus-out basis the 15C normally does. I'm not sure that the 161 passes the 15C here very often; it seems (I used to live in the area) that you see a 15C and 161 in convoy more often than you see them passing in opposing directions. Also, the current buses on the 161 aren't accessible, if that makes a difference ("accessible buses" were mentioned apropos of the passing problem). The 161 used to have accessible single-deckers (WVs?), but the problem may be specific to double-deckers.

I don't know about the HGV situation. The road doesn't have a huge amount of HGV traffic, but it's the access road to a reasonably big estate with shops and a pub, so it must get some, and it would have had construction traffic in connection with the M50 and other projects. I've never actually seen two vehicles get stuck trying to pass here, though, which is something I have witnessed - sometimes with pairs of buses - in other places.

I'd put the length of road affected at 400m or more rather than 50m, by the way - basically, the whole stretch from the Grange Golf Club to the roundabout at the entrance to Whitechurch Estate.

frodi · 28-07-2007 01:30PM

Prof_V wrote:

I'd put the length of road affected at 400m or more rather than 50m, by the way - basically, the whole stretch from the Grange Golf Club to the roundabout at the entrance to Whitechurch Estate.

The road itself is about 400m but only about 50m or so poses a problem.

Prof_V · 28-07-2007 02:32PM

frodi wrote:

The road itself is about 400m but only about 50m or so poses a problem.

The width always seemed fairly constant to me between the end of the golf club car park and the point where the road starts to open out for the roundabout. Having said that, there are bends and a bus stop along there, so maybe the issue relates to one or other of these? (It'd seem particularly hard to stop an outbound bus far enough out for passenger safety, there being no path on that side, while letting a bus or other large vehicle pass in the inbound direction.)

frodi · 28-07-2007 04:36PM

I have to say that it seems daft to me that there is a bus stop half way up the road where there is no footpath and the road edge is hard up against a high wall. Literally they have to discharge passengers directly on the road way so that they immediately have to cross the road in front of the bus and risk getting hit by cars overtaking the bus.

Move the bloody bus stop

Prof_V · 28-07-2007 09:08PM

frodi wrote:

I have to say that it seems daft to me that there is a bus stop half way up the road where there is no footpath and the road edge is hard up against a high wall.

Actually, having been up there earlier today, it seems as if it's gone. I'm not sure how long it's been that way, or whether it's just a temporary thing. The inbound stop in the same area is still there, but at least it has a footpath.

Dublin Bus Routes 15B/C & 74/A

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