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Michael Vick & Dogfighting

  • 18-07-2007 10:09am
    #1
    dulpit
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,408 ✭✭✭✭


    So i've been seeing this story all along on the american websites (espn etc.) about how Vick's house hosted dogfights etc.

    He maintained that he wasn't involved, it was his cousin who was living in the house... Now he's been indicted, where'll that leave him with Goodell? Ban on the cards?

    Also, it's the first time i've ever heard a story on the NFL make it onto the sports news on the radio, today fm just mentioned it...

    Should he be banned? Or should the NFL wait till the court case is finished?


Comments

  • #2
    Dodge
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,308 ✭✭✭✭Dodge


    http://www.sportsline.com/nfl/story/10259619

    "We are disappointed that Michael Vick has put himself in a position where a federal grand jury has returned an indictment against him," NFL spokesman Brian McCarthy said.

    "The activities alleged are cruel, degrading and illegal. Michael Vick's guilt has not yet been proven, and we believe that all concerned should allow the legal process to determine the facts."


  • #3
    evil_seed
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,448 ✭✭✭evil_seed


    If found guilty he'll go to jail for 6 years. But I have a feeling he's going to get away with it. Some of the reports of the cruelty is disgusting


  • #4
    DaXiS
    Registered Users Posts: 74 ✭✭DaXiS


    If he is guilty, Falcons are screwed even worse and Vick's career is over.

    If not, I don't think anyone should lay a finger on him and instead, prosecute the damn people in his house.( Blabla "he should have known what was going on", eat me)


  • #5
    tallaghtoutlaws
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,067 ✭✭✭tallaghtoutlaws


    Convicted or not he has alot of explaining to weasel his way out of an NFL ban. Their contracts do clearly state that they are to be no way involved or be associated to illegal substances and goings on so hence all the bans being thrown around.

    Serves him right you honestly telling me he didnt know it was going on yeah right Vick pull the other one.


  • #6
    jdivision
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,260 ✭✭✭jdivision


    Vick will eventually get a six-game ban I'm thinking and if he starts winning the Falcons won't care. Just look at Ray Lewis. He may have been cleared but there was so much circumstantial evidence (which also seems to be the case with Vick) you had to ask questions. End result? He's a perennial Pro Bowler and one of highest paid players in NFL.


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  • #7
    Dodge
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,308 ✭✭✭✭Dodge


    Different commisioneer

    PacMan Jones cleared of charges but gets season ban. Talk Johnson gets 8 game ban 9and sacked by Bears)

    NFL is definitely trying to clean up its act


  • #8
    dulpit
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,408 ✭✭✭✭dulpit


    He should be banned, especially following the precedent laid down by the commissioner with Pacman & Tank... What really should happen is that he would be reprimanded by his employers (the Falcons) but that won't happen in a million years... So I reckon that unless these charges disappear fairly sharpish Vick may spend at least some of the season on the sidelines... That would really hurt the Falcons, Shaub's gone so who do they have at backup now?


  • #9
    jdivision
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,260 ✭✭✭jdivision


    Dodge wrote:
    Different commisioneer

    PacMan Jones cleared of charges but gets season ban. Talk Johnson gets 8 game ban 9and sacked by Bears)

    NFL is definitely trying to clean up its act

    Pacman cleared? Since when. Been questioned more than 10 times by police and not cleared of all charges. Tank got a ban, then went and got arrested again and then got cut. Neither is a QB, neither is a star earner for his team. Sorry but dollar signs count in NFL. Very few players don't get another gig. Somebody will pick Tank up and after a couple of years he'll be given a big contract. Pacman slightly different because he's probably gonna be sent down in the regular season.


  • #10
    Dodge
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,308 ✭✭✭✭Dodge


    Take your point re Vick being a star but Pacman hasn't been convicted of anything and still got the ban. Thats the comparison I was trying to make (my own fault for syaing he was cleared I know)...

    Commish might be looking to make an example of Vick to show that stars don't get different treatment


  • #11
    Chucky the tree
    Closed Accounts Posts: 19,341 ✭✭✭✭Chucky the tree


    Vicks gonna get a year ban aswell. If convicted say bye bye.


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  • #12
    Vikings
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,788 ✭✭✭Vikings


    Vick will be convicted and he will be banned from the NFL, my guess here is for life.

    Just by reading profootballtalk alone, which is run by a lawyer, he has been explaining that even on conspiracy charges alone Vick could face anywhere from 8 to 40 years in prison. Liftime ban me thinks.


  • #13
    Chucky the tree
    Closed Accounts Posts: 19,341 ✭✭✭✭Chucky the tree


    Having read up a bit more on i agree Mustangs, i cant him see ever playing in the NFL again even if he is found not guilty.


    He'll probaly plead to avoid serious time though.


  • #14
    heyjude
    Registered Users Posts: 1,030 ✭✭✭heyjude


    Wasn't there some mention of charges concerning illegal gambling as well ? If so, then he truly is finished, for while the NFL may conveniently turn a blind eye to the multi billion gambling industry surrounding NFL games, actually having a high profile player involved in illegal gambling could be deemed even more serious by the league, than his alleged involvement in dog fighting.


  • #15
    PeakOutput
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,639 ✭✭✭PeakOutput


    according to the sports illustrated guy on newstalk last night he can only get 2 years for the dogfighting if convicted as his house was raided a week before the tougher laws were brought in which would of meant up to 6 years........dont know how true it is but thats what he said


  • #16
    Chucky the tree
    Closed Accounts Posts: 19,341 ✭✭✭✭Chucky the tree


    heyjude wrote:
    Wasn't there some mention of charges concerning illegal gambling as well ? If so, then he truly is finished, for while the NFL may conveniently turn a blind eye to the multi billion gambling industry surrounding NFL games, actually having a high profile player involved in illegal gambling could be deemed even more serious by the league, than his alleged involvement in dog fighting.



    Its will be illegal gambling related to betting the dogs, so i dont think that will make any difference.


    Anyway, the nfl wont suspend Vick until the trial is over.

    Wow, well done roger, congratulations on making you look like a complete tit.


  • #17
    Vikings
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,788 ✭✭✭Vikings


    The amount of charges being thrown onto Vick here really is amazing.

    As PFT put it, if he was involved in illegal gambling (and won through it) then it should have been declared to the IRS so add tax evasion to the list as well!

    The conspiracy charges can bring a maximum of 5 years in prison, if convicted he could get a lot lot more! Not only are these federal charges but Surrey County will also be charging him at their level as well.

    Bye bye Ron Mexico


  • #18
    jdivision
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,260 ✭✭✭jdivision


    Lads this is the States, money talks. My prediction: If it's looking bad for him He'll plea bargain to do three months in the offseason, reduced to six weeks for good behaviour. He'll also agree to pay a $1 million fine and donate a further $1 million to animal shelters. Goodall will give him a 10-week ban reduced to six for good behaviour.

    By the way the NFL disciplinary code has been changed so only those convicted will face bans. That was done in last couple of weeks.


  • #19
    dulpit
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,408 ✭✭✭✭dulpit


    http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2943276&campaign=rss&source=ESPNHeadlines

    Look's like Vick might be urged into taking a voluntary leave of absence. According to the ESPN article, officials from the NFL, the players association & the Falcons are urging him to do it to "concentrate on the legal battle". It says that something will have to be done by next Thursday when training camp opens.

    Will he? Apparently the Falcons will pay him the $6million salary, even if he sits out entire season... Must suck for the Falcons though, he's basically their whole offence, right? End of their season already?

    Oh and in relation to jail time the article clearly states (quote):
    If convicted on all counts, Vick could face a prison sentence of six years.

    But i guess because he's rich and famous he'll get off with a fine, the falcons will probably dump him but somebody will definitely pick him up again, unless the NFL bans him, in which case he could head north the the CFL... (they seem to take anybody - Ricky Williams for instance)


  • #20
    jdivision
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,260 ✭✭✭jdivision


    Leave Ricky alone! He's a new age guy, no dogfighting for him, just a few smokes:)


  • #21
    Chucky the tree
    Closed Accounts Posts: 19,341 ✭✭✭✭Chucky the tree


    jdivision wrote:
    Lads this is the States, money talks. My prediction: If it's looking bad for him He'll plea bargain to do three months in the offseason, reduced to six weeks for good behaviour. He'll also agree to pay a $1 million fine and donate a further $1 million to animal shelters. Goodall will give him a 10-week ban reduced to six for good behaviour.

    By the way the NFL disciplinary code has been changed so only those convicted will face bans. That was done in last couple of weeks.



    No advertiser in the world will touch him if he's convicted, even now he wont be considered.

    Why waste your money using the dog killer to promote you product when you can get Vince young? Reggie bush is another golden boy aswell.


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  • #22
    dulpit
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,408 ✭✭✭✭dulpit


    Chucky the tree wrote:
    Why waste your money using the dog killer to promote you product when you can get Vince young? Reggie bush is another golden boy aswell.

    Or Peyton Manning? Seems like he's never done anything wrong ever in his life...


  • #23
    jdivision
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,260 ✭✭✭jdivision


    Chucky the tree wrote:
    No advertiser in the world will touch him if he's convicted, even now he wont be considered.

    Why waste your money using the dog killer to promote you product when you can get Vince young? Reggie bush is another golden boy aswell.

    To a certain extent so what. He's currently on a ten-year $140 million contract before endorsements come into it. He doesn't have to worry about it.


  • #24
    Chucky the tree
    Closed Accounts Posts: 19,341 ✭✭✭✭Chucky the tree


    jdivision wrote:
    To a certain extent so what. He's currently on a ten-year $140 million contract before endorsements come into it. He doesn't have to worry about it.



    i was refering to your money talks approach. NFL wont not ban based on a financial decision.


  • #25
    heyjude
    Registered Users Posts: 1,030 ✭✭✭heyjude


    jdivision wrote:
    To a certain extent so what. He's currently on a ten-year $140 million contract before endorsements come into it. He doesn't have to worry about it.

    Only a certain percentage of the $140m is guaranteed money though, so its not like he's going to get $140m irrespective of what happens. A large part of the $140m depends on him still being a Falcons player and if he was to be suspended for a year or if they cut him, then he would lose out. But in any case, he's certainly already received millions, so he should be comfortably well off no matter what.


  • #26
    Lirange
    Registered Users Posts: 2,108 ✭✭✭Lirange


    dulpit wrote:
    Or Peyton Manning? Seems like he's never done anything wrong ever in his life...
    Don't be so sure. He reminds me of Ed Norton's character in Primal Fear. You just never know!


  • #27
    Kinetic^
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,249 ✭✭✭✭Kinetic^


    He pleaded "not guilty" to the charges. :eek:

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/other_sports/american_football/6913000.stm


  • #28
    dulpit
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,408 ✭✭✭✭dulpit


    Kenny 5 wrote:
    He pleaded "not guilty" to the charges. :eek:

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/other_sports/american_football/6913000.stm

    That'll only make things worse if (when) he's found guilty...


  • #29
    onionhead1112
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7 ✭onionhead1112


    The news media here in the US had kind of dropped the issue but the animal rights groups are trying to keep it in the news. It looks really bad and if hes guilty( I think he is) if he is guilty he deserves JAIL and removed from the game not because he is a role model but because there is a certain moral thing and line you do not cross.


  • #30
    de5p0i1er
    Registered Users Posts: 2,274 ✭✭✭de5p0i1er


    Vicks should be banned for at least a year and charged.


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  • #31
    hanton12
    Closed Accounts Posts: 387 ✭✭hanton12


    Vick has now pleaded guilty and is looking certain to do a stint in jail.

    http://www.sportsline.com/nfl/story/10307169/1


  • #32
    dulpit
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,408 ✭✭✭✭dulpit


    I was watching a small bit of ESPN's sports reporters show on NASN, they were saying that apparently Vick picked the worst state in the US to get caught for animal cruelty, worst penalties there...

    So if he goes to jail for a year - 18 months, I would presume that his career is over for ever? Would anyone touch him?


  • #33
    JJ
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,057 ✭✭✭JJ


    I can't see the NFL touching him ever again. Money talks and in this case, the NFL might as well kiss a lot of advertising money goodbye if they thought about letting Vick come back.

    The only future I could possibly see for him is maybe the CFL or Arena Football. Maybe they'll let him play in whatever league they have in China (I'd imagine there is one as there's an nflchina.com), they have no qualms about chopping up dogs and eating them.


  • #34
    dulpit
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,408 ✭✭✭✭dulpit


    I'd imagine that the Arena Football would be a more likely option than the CFL, CFL & NFL are working partners & stuff, they'd most likely not... The AFL on the other hand probably would do anything for the publicity...


  • #35
    daveirl
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,483 ✭✭✭✭daveirl


    This post has been deleted.


  • #36
    irishbucsfan
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 37,978 ✭✭✭✭irishbucsfan


    I was in Tampa last week, and hes been getting alot of stick in the media and on the street.

    But here is another question:
    When Vick returns from jail he will be 30. He'll spend the end of whatever season he is released on a team's practice roster (ATL, im guessing). He'll never be able to get back the same type of mobility he has right now. Will Michael Vick be worthy of a starting place by the time he's out of jail? Seems to me VY just walked into the "league's most agile QB" Role


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  • #37
    irishbucsfan
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 37,978 ✭✭✭✭irishbucsfan


    heyjude wrote:
    Only a certain percentage of the $140m is guaranteed money though, so its not like he's going to get $140m irrespective of what happens. A large part of the $140m depends on him still being a Falcons player and if he was to be suspended for a year or if they cut him, then he would lose out. But in any case, he's certainly already received millions, so he should be comfortably well off no matter what.
    He stands to lose that money at this moment in time. All contract's with the NFL and it's franchises have conduct clauses

    He is elligible for this season's roster bonus though.


  • #38
    Vikings
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,788 ✭✭✭Vikings


    I get all my info on this case from PFT, according to that site if Vick signs the plea and confesses to the crimes at Federal level, when he goes to trial in Virginia, its an open and shut case in which he could get up to 40 years behind bars. Maximum of 5 years per dog that was killed, or at least admitted to being killed by Peace and the other dude.

    Oh and he will most likely owe the Falcons just over $28 million in unearned bonus money. I really can't see him ever playing in the NFL again, which has been my view from the start.


  • #39
    wyk
    Closed Accounts Posts: 456 ✭✭wyk


    Here in the States it looks dim for Vick. Americans LOVE their dogs and often consider them family(and often the best lookin one of the family). And very few NFL fans do not have one or more as a pet. He is losing in the courts as well as in the hearts of Americans. His career is over. His life as he knew it is over. All for a stupid, stupid, and entirely unnecessary and easily avoidable situation. Some people are born to fail. But fewer yet are born to win big and THEN fail bigger. Congratulations, Vick. You've made history.

    Wes

    Austin, Texas
    USA


  • #40
    Zaph
    Registered Users, Subscribers, Registered Users 2 Posts: 47,336 ✭✭✭✭Zaph


    82207ben.jpg


  • #41
    dulpit
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,408 ✭✭✭✭dulpit


    zaph wrote:
    82207ben.jpg


    haha, brilliant...


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  • #42
    wyk
    Closed Accounts Posts: 456 ✭✭wyk


    http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070824/ap_on_sp_fo_ne/fbn_michael_vick;_ylt=AjHz1_1Y8zQW_k81PlIbEH6s0NUE

    NFL suspends Michael Vick indefinitely:

    The commissioner said Vick's admitted conduct was "not only illegal but also cruel and reprehensible." Even if he didn't personally placed bets, Goodell said, "your actions in funding the betting and your association with illegal gambling both violate the terms of your NFL player contract and expose you to corrupting influences in derogation of one of the most fundamental responsibilities of an NFL player.

    Goodell freed the Falcons to "assert any claims or remedies" to recover $22 million of Vick's signing bonus from the 10-year, $130 million contract he signed in 2004.

    The commissioner didn't speak to Vick but based his decision on the court filings. NFL spokesman Greg Aiello said Goodell may meet with Vick in the future, and Goodell said he would review the suspension after all the legal proceedings.

    "You have engaged in conduct detrimental to the welfare of the NFL and have violated the league's personal conduct policy," Goodell told Vick in a letter after meeting in New York with Falcons president and general manager Rich McKay."

    As I said previously, in America ya don't mess with peoples dogs, and in the NFL, you'd better not even have a nightmare about gambling.

    Wez


  • #43
    bruschi
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 4,142 Mod ✭✭✭✭bruschi


    anyone watching the Mick Vick project documentary series? started there last week. saw the first couple of episodes. I know hind sight is a great thing, but in fairness to the man, he seems a lot more level headed and down to earth than a lot of other 'stars' who have had toruble follow them around.

    link to the second episode here, and you can go to the series homepage from there to watch trailers and the first episode.

    http://www.bet.com/video/850515


  • #44
    D3PO
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,879 ✭✭✭D3PO


    bruschi wrote: »
    anyone watching the Mick Vick project documentary series? started there last week. saw the first couple of episodes. I know hind sight is a great thing, but in fairness to the man, he seems a lot more level headed and down to earth than a lot of other 'stars' who have had toruble follow them around.

    link to the second episode here, and you can go to the series homepage from there to watch trailers and the first episode.

    http://www.bet.com/video/850515

    Did you really have to dig up a 2 1/2 year old thread to ask this :rolleyes:


  • #45
    Frisbee
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,569 ✭✭✭✭Frisbee


    D3PO wrote: »
    Did you really have to dig up a 2 1/2 year old thread to ask this :rolleyes:

    Better than starting a new thread on it.

    And now I have something interesting to watch.

    Cheers bruschi


  • #46
    kmart6
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,172 ✭✭✭✭kmart6


    Better to drag this thread back up for it because otherwise if someone was just to come accross the thread with a video they may ask for a complete back story! Now it's just on the previous pages!


  • #47
    D3PO
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,879 ✭✭✭D3PO


    ok np I guess i was just tired and cranky :cool:


  • #48
    bruschi
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 4,142 Mod ✭✭✭✭bruschi


    not sure if I should start a new thread for this ...

    anyway, looks like the Eagles are going to keep Vick for another year, or at least keep him for trade value. Been watching his documentary thing on BET, and in fairness to him, he comes across fairly level headed, and far from the idiot money crazed fool he was. Whether or not its all an act, but I cant think of a foot wrong he has put since he came out of prison. he's kept the head down, done everyhting asked of him, and has been in the media damn all times. He'd surely be worth a punt for someone like St Louis, Buffalo or Carolina.


  • #49
    kmart6
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,172 ✭✭✭✭kmart6


    There is a thread for trade specuation etc

    To be fair to him I htink he has turned it around a lot! He just needed that kick up the the arse to realise what he had done and casued.

    Atleast he's taking his second chance, not like someone such as Pacman1


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