Salary scale for Primary/Secondary Teaching

katyk · 06-05-2006 8:23pm #1

Hi
Im just wondering if anyone knows if the salary scale for secondary and primary teaching are the same? Also if you have a degree do you get more money, I seen on education.ie that you get an extra 4000 or something like that for an honours degree. Is that a once off in your first year of teaching or do you get that every year you teach? Also, is it any type of honours degree or does it have to be an honours degree in education or something. For example my degree is in IT, would I be entitled to the allowance.
Also, does anyone know the name of anywhere that I can do the Leaving Cert honours Irish, as I only done pass in school .I seen this is a requirement for primary teaching.
Thanks

Rabies · 06-05-2006 8:28pm

The salary scale is probably some where on www.education.ie.

Should it be for the love of teaching and not money

Enright · 06-05-2006 8:35pm

no the two salary scales are different
for exact details go to www.tui.ie or www.asti.ie for those in secordary schools, try www.into.ie for those in primary

in relation to allowances, these are annual allowances, you can only claim the highest one ie a degree or first or second class degree or masters etc,
there is about a 3500 difference between a honours degree or a pass

you might be entitled to other allowances ie for teaching through irish, having a hdip,

there is no restriction in what area one has there degree in, but in order to gain full time employment, it should be in education, with vec schools this restriction might not apply, same for havin a hdip

spurious · 13-05-2006 2:27pm

Teachers are paid on the Common Basic Scale - it applies to Primary and Second Level Teachers.

There is not a different scale for each sector.

The academic allowance for an Hons. degree is 4,576. It is the degree you are using for your job, presumably. It is given each year once you have been made permanent, or if in a pro-rata position it is given annually on a pro-rata basis.

Those who have Hons. degrees in Education have generally done Education degrees and would not be claiming the H. Dip allowance.

You have a degree in IT and you want to do primary teaching? I would expect you'd have to do a teaching degree or course first. If you wanted to do second-level teaching, you could do the H. Dip. - to be honest, IT would be more suited to second level.

Full time permanent jobs at second-level are few and far between since the introduction of CIDs (Contracts of Indefinite Duration) - expect to do up to ten years on a pro-rata or less than maximum hours contract before gaining permanency (or whatever its equivalent is under CID).

Trotter · 13-05-2006 7:19pm

spurious wrote:

Those who have Hons. degrees in Education have generally done Education degrees and would not be claiming the H. Dip allowance.

You have a degree in IT and you want to do primary teaching? I would expect you'd have to do a teaching degree or course first.

I have an honours degree in IT and Im doing a post grad in primary teaching.. as have a lot of people I've met. The trend in primary teaching from now on will include an increase in people with other work experience going on to to do post grads in primary education and bringing that life experience into the classroom.

You do not have to have an education degree to sub teach. Although the principals have to look for qualified people if they need a sub, in reality theres plenty of degree holders in all disciplines picking up short term subbing in primary schools while they persue the post grad qualification.

arctic lemur · 16-05-2006 8:55pm

I got an island allowance and an allowance for teaching through Irish

katyk · 18-05-2006 8:21am

Thanks for your replies. Just a few more things:

1. Trotter, you said you were in IT and moved to Primary teaching, do you think it was a good move for you? I know you are still doing your post grad and arent out there teaching full time but in your experience, are you glad you made the move? Im just a bit anxious because its quite a big change for me. Had you been working in IT for long or had you done the post grad straight after you finished your IT degree?

2. Also, how do you get into sub teaching. I spoke to a couple of people who are primary teaching and they said this is pretty much a must if you want to get into the post grad. One of them said there is a text service you can register for on www.education.ie, but Ive looked and cant find anything there. Suppose with the summer coming in there wouldnt be any sub teaching anyway. Do you know if is there anything else I could do during the summer that would give me some teaching experience?

3. I wasnt aware that full time permanent jobs in second level teaching are hard to get. Are many people finding it hard to get work after their post grad?

4. When you come out of your post grad, do you have to do a years probation teaching period or anything before you are recognised as a fully qualified teacher? I seen this was the case with the UK courses, just wondering if its the same here.

Trotter · 18-05-2006 3:48pm

katyk wrote:

Thanks for your replies. Just a few more things:
1. Trotter, you said you were in IT and moved to Primary teaching, do you think it was a good move for you? I know you are still doing your post grad and arent out there teaching full time but in your experience, are you glad you made the move? Im just a bit anxious because its quite a big change for me. Had you been working in IT for long or had you done the post grad straight after you finished your IT degree?

Im doing the Hibernia post grad so I spend my days studying and in class as Im subbing pretty much fulltime in 1 secondary school. I never actually worked in IT.. I went from job to job for a year when I graduated and then decided to try subbing at secondary level for a while til I found something good.. Im still at it

Through subbing there, the principal in the local national school rang me to cover one day and that was it.. I was hooked on primary teaching. Its much much more rewarding. Where else would you get a terry's chocolate orange after the "team" had a whip round to say goodbye to me after I'd covered for their teacher for a week

??

katyk wrote:

2. Also, how do you get into sub teaching. I spoke to a couple of people who are primary teaching and they said this is pretty much a must if you want to get into the post grad. One of them said there is a text service you can register for on www.education.ie, but Ive looked and cant find anything there. Suppose with the summer coming in there wouldnt be any sub teaching anyway. Do you know if is there anything else I could do during the summer that would give me some teaching experience?

There wont be a whole lot of subbing going between now and June, but there'll always be some little bits and pieces around. I basically went to my old secondary school and handed in a CV 3 years ago, and said it was something I was interested in trying out. Like I said.. Im still there! Summer teaching experience thats relevant to the post grad... any kind of summer camp for kids I suppose!

The text a sub site is:
http://www.educationposts.ie/primary/employee/cp.php?msg=Log-in/register%20for%20text-a-sub
The thing to do also is to register with your local teachers centre. They often provide principals with names of available subs during the year.

katyk wrote:

3. I wasnt aware that full time permanent jobs in second level teaching are hard to get. Are many people finding it hard to get work after their post grad?

Yes. Many of the people who get secondary post grads are getting sub work or temporary contracts, but few are getting fulltime jobs immediately.

katyk wrote:

4. When you come out of your post grad, do you have to do a years probation teaching period or anything before you are recognised as a fully qualified teacher? I seen this was the case with the UK courses, just wondering if its the same here.

You do whats called the dip year, where the dept. inspectors come and watch you teaching for a couple of days during the year and until you do that you arent considered fully fully qualified, but you still get paid the same for that year as far as I know.

katyk · 26-05-2006 9:25am

Sorry, I just have a couple more questions that hopefully someone can help out with.

1. The grant that you get for studying in the UK, is that a gauranteed grant or can you only get it in certain circumstances?

2. Also can you train in the UK, and when you are finished come straight back to Ireland, or are you required to teach in the UK for a year or something first.

3. In relation to subbing, I was looking through the newspaper lastnight and there were lots of ads for temporary teachers in primary and secondary schools for Sept 06. Some ads specified that you needed to be a fully qualified teacher, but most didnt even mention it. I was wondering if I could apply for those type of jobs, or is the qualification not mentioned because it is normally a given that you have a teaching qualification. Is it normally only subbing for a day here and there that is available to people with no teaching qualification.

Thanks in advance for your help.:)

dory · 09-06-2006 5:55pm

Hey,

Just wondering about the allowance for having a masters. If it is a totally unrelated masters to your degree and what you plan on teaching, do you still get the allowance? Or is it onlly if the master furthers your knowledge of the subject you are teaching?

akx · 26-09-2006 4:11pm

katyk wrote:

Hi
.
Also, does anyone know the name of anywhere that I can do the Leaving Cert honours Irish, as I only done pass in school .I seen this is a requirement for primary teaching.
Thanks

I have just started honours Irish classes one day a week the Dargan Centre in Bray it costs 288euro per term.... I also plan to take an intense course in "The Institute" in Dublin before the orals approach.
If you are doing a general degree like myself, and decide to do a 1year intense PGDE in Scotland (Irish citizens can apply for fees to be paid there) you can come back and complete the S.C.G (seperate Irish exam) which means you will not be required to have honours Irish L.C. I think your safest bet is to try the honours Irish route and at least you have the alternitive of the latter.:)

GAA widow · 26-09-2006 7:53pm

don't know about secondary teaching, but in order to maximise your salary in primary teaching you should aim to have an honours degree, teach in a Gaelscoil, do a Masters and make sure that school is on an island.

All allowances covered

GAA widow · 26-09-2006 7:58pm

dory wrote:

Hey,

Just wondering about the allowance for having a masters. If it is a totally unrelated masters to your degree and what you plan on teaching, do you still get the allowance? Or is it onlly if the master furthers your knowledge of the subject you are teaching?

i think you still get the allowance, but you only get the DIFFERENCE between your primary degree allowance (pass/hons allowance) and the Master's allowance - works out at something like 10 euro extra (net) per paycheque.

killbillvol2 · 26-09-2006 9:11pm

GAA widow wrote:

don't know about secondary teaching, but in order to maximise your salary in primary teaching you should aim to have an honours degree, teach in a Gaelscoil, do a Masters and make sure that school is on an island.

All allowances covered

Correction: in order to maximise your salary in primary teaching you should aim to have an honours degree, teach in a Gaelscoil, do a Masters,make sure that school is on an island and be principal of that school!

TheDriver · 27-09-2006 10:45am

Masters isn't really worth that much extra and don't forget the S&S scheme to really push the boat out!

GAA widow · 27-09-2006 5:26pm

killbillvol2 wrote:

Correction: in order to maximise your salary in primary teaching you should aim to have an honours degree, teach in a Gaelscoil, do a Masters,make sure that school is on an island and be principal of that school!

Forgot that!

Ciunas · 08-07-2007 11:42pm

Should we all not be entitled to the island allowance as Ireland is an island?
As a teacher of Irish at second level I teach completely through the medium of Irish. I believe I am entitled to the teaching through Irish allowance.

BoozyBabe · 09-07-2007 8:08am

Just one thing that wasn't really touched on:-
Katyk:- I'm planning on resitting the LC exam next summer.
You don't need to join any course in order to do it, you can do it on your own.
BTW, whether or not you enrol in a course to sit the exam, you still have you register YOURSELF with the department of edu in order to sit the exam.

I'm doing a correspondence course with Kilroys college. Can't tell you how that's going yet, but the only thing I think it'll be useful for is the correction of my work, so I know if I'm making progress.

Apart from that, I've bought the books & I'm studying away myself, & thanks to one of our fellow boardsters I've just gotten the Institutes course notes, so I'm thinking they'll be a big help.

I'm going to try & get a few grinds for the oral, or maybe do a course for oral preparation, but apart from that, I plan to do it myself.

Best of luck, I feel we will need it all!!!!!
There's a lot of work (& on my part, relearning) to be done.

Rosita · 09-07-2007 9:57pm

I was down the Gaeltacht around Easter last and there was quite a number there who were doing the Leaving Cert Irish with a view to doing Primary teaching. I am talking about people from 28 to 45years old. I greatly admired their ambition I have to say.

I was curious though at what point in the teaching salary scale a 40 or 45 year old would come in at. Is it non-negotiably the first point irrespective of your circumstances or does age/experience have anything to do with it?

gaeilgegrinds · 10-07-2007 11:37am

No Rosita age does not come into it. How would that be fair?

Rosita · 10-07-2007 3:34pm

gaeilgegrinds wrote:

No Rosita age does not come into it. How would that be fair?

GG,

I suppose the question of fairness depends on your perspective. People currently in the teaching profession might have some difficulty with someone arriving in to earn more than them as happens in other jobs, simply as it is not the current practice. But objectively speaking it must surely be an inhibitor to recruitment of older people who could bring a wealth of experience and knowledge to the classroom. It must be extremely difficult for people in their 40s going back to a "starting off" salary that a young person might be happy with when they have few comparable commitments. But I suppose as long as the govenrment has more applicants than jobs they can do what they like.

gaeilgegrinds · 10-07-2007 4:22pm

What about younger teachers having more energy and being able to relate to students more? I know in my school it's the younger teachers who do most of the team-coaching and the like. They don't always get paid for it either. And the when one has established themselves as a teacher they take on posts of responsibility and receive renumeration in that manner. Surely a balance of younger & older teachers is what is needed. So are you trying to say a 55 year old teacher starting off should earn the same as a 25 year old teacher? Maybe I took you up wrong but that to me is ridiculous.

Rosita · 10-07-2007 6:27pm

gaeilgegrinds wrote:

1) What about younger teachers having more energy and being able to relate to students more?

2) So are you trying to say a 55 year old teacher starting off should earn the same as a 25 year old teacher? Maybe I took you up wrong but that to me is ridiculous.

1) The is a double-edged argument for teachers to make as it implies that younger teachers are of more value. The corollary of this, it might be argued, is that salaries should in fact stop increasing to the same degree merely on grounds of age and experience as the older teacher is of inherently less value.

2) I'm not saying anything as specific as that. I am merely saying that the teaching profession is arguably losing out on older people in their thirties and forties who might be looking for a change of career and would bring some different experiences to the table and might, if I can obliquely refer to point 1 again, bring a freshness and energy to the job which the person who starts off at 21 - and is perhaps looking at burnout of some description and starting to do the job from memory - might lack at that stage.

Of course, teachers already in there would object to that for their own introspective motives. That's human nature. But that wouldn't necessarily make paying somebody on the basis of what they specifically bring to the job as opposed to a rigid pay-scale unfair. It would introduce a very mild element of meritocracy and incentive which the current system of seniority does not appear to foster.

I am sure there are a lot of really top quality people out there in other industries who would bring a lot to the classroom but could not afford to earn 30k per year. If, as universities do in terms of credits in many cases, there was some recognition of life experience and achievement which might see someone get even seven or eight points up the payscale if they commence at 40 years old or whatever, the government might not be talking about problems with, for example, gender imbalance in Primary teaching. I'm not even talking about putting these people on a par with 'lifers' who have 19 years under their belts at 40 years old. I am simply wondering if it would be a good idea to make the salary more commensurate with the expectations of someone with broad financial commitments. It might be regarded as strange by comparison with other industries that people are effectively punished for not starting teaching at 21. But like I said, as long as the government gets more applicants than it has jobs it can stick rigidly to the old start-at-21-finish-at-65-and-take-your-yearly-increment policy. The government has teachers over a barrel and as such can afford to undervalue them, all of them. However, I suspect the profession is the poorer for it.

gaeilgegrinds · 10-07-2007 9:04pm

I know people who started teaching at 21 but also a woman who started when she was a grandmother. She had so much work done in her past career & enough money made that she no longer wanted to work just for money & claimed it was the best change she ever made. Teaching is about a lot more than money at the end of the day. Luckily I'm in a school where we all get in, regardless of age & seem to work very well as a team. Are you a teacher?

Rosita · 11-07-2007 7:59am

gaeilgegrinds wrote:

Are you a teacher?

No, GG, I am not a teacher but I do put a high value on their work.

gaeilgegrinds · 11-07-2007 10:34am

Step into a staffroom like ours & you'll see why teachers of all ages are valued, we gel so well. Money is really rarely a motivator for any teacher, that's why I asked.

BoozyBabe · 11-07-2007 11:53am

gaeilgegrinds wrote:

Money is really rarely a motivator for any teacher.

No, it's the holidays!!!!

gaeilgegrinds · 11-07-2007 2:08pm

If by holidays you mean that in June we work in the exams, July we correct them and August we recover and start preparing for next year?

Salary scale for Primary/Secondary Teaching

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