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Unfair landlord

  • 28-06-2007 10:43am
    #1
    Spyro*
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17 ✭


    I've been renting a four-bedroomed house since the 25th of May last year. At the end of May this year, the other three moved out. I talked to the landlord and asked if I could stay on, and he could look for three others to move in instead of four. He agreed.

    In the end up I found three to move in - with no help from him. Unfortunately one had to move out a couple of weeks ago, so now there are just three of us. I told the landlord that if he put an ad in the paper, he could pass people on to me and I'd show them the room. I also put an ad on daft.ie, but I haven't heard much back about it. He didn't bother advertising himself. Last night he rang me to tell me he wants us out of the house, and he's planning to rent it out as a house, not room by room.

    I do understand that he wants the house full, but it's not so easy in the summer. I think he's being unrealistic, expecting me to find another tenant immediately (when it's not even my responsibility), and now he expects me to tell the other two that we have to leave, when they've only been there about a month.

    How much notice does he have to give me? I've been told 35 days, since I'm there over 12 months, but I'm not sure. We don't have a lease, and he's not registered, so am I still entitled to the same amount of notice? Also, he only told me over the phone - does he have to give me written notice or is it effective from last night?

    If it's 35 days, then it'd only be two weeks after that till I'd have the house full anyway, with students moving back. I've never once been late with rent, I've kept the house in immaculate condition, and I think he's being incredibly unfair.

    Thanks for your help.


Comments

  • #2
    Spyro*
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17 ✭Spyro*


    I've just read on threshold.ie that I'm entitled to 42 days notice, and that he can only ask me to leave under certain circumstances - can he just ask me to leave because one room is empty? He hasn't even tried to fill it himself.


  • #3
    Calina
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,219 ✭✭✭Calina


    Did he originally rent it on a room by room basis?


  • #4
    Spyro*
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17 ✭Spyro*


    No, it was originally let as a house, but he did agree to let me stay on on my own. He said he'd look for tenants, but it was me who found them in the end.

    He did put an ad in the paper saying that there were rooms free (at the start of the summer, when we were originally looking for other people) but nothing came of it, so surely this proves he had agreed to rent it room-by-room.

    I do understand that he needs to have the room let out, but I have been trying. Although it's a lovely house, it's a tiny room, and it's the middle of the summer. It's not realistic to expect the house to be full 100% of the time, and surely having three tenants is better than none?


  • #5
    DO0GLE
    Closed Accounts Posts: 109 ✭✭DO0GLE


    People come and go the whole time. He probably wants to let the whole house out and not have the hassle of trying to fill rooms as people come and go. Thats what I would do if I was a landlord. If he leases the house to someone for a year, he's done for the year. If he lets it out on a room by room basis, he's going to be constantly putting ads in the paper and trying to fill rooms. You could ask him to take out a lease for a year and fill the rooms yourself if you really want to hold on to the house.


  • #6
    Spyro*
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17 ✭Spyro*


    That's the thing, I've been finding it really difficult to fill the last room.

    I do understand his point of view, but it's not as easy as he seems to think it is to find tenants at this time of year. As it is, I'm having to live with people I'd rather not live with. And I don't think he's going to be able to find a group of four to take the house immediately either.

    The two who are in with me at the minute are just in till September, then I'm planning to get students in until May - it's not going to be a lot of changing about and constantly trying to fill rooms.

    I have someone coming to view it tonight, but if they don't take it, it looks like I'll be moving!


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  • #7
    BostonB
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,056 ✭✭✭✭BostonB


    From the landlord point of view. Its a world of hassle renting a house by room. You get x times the amount of grief. Far easier and much less hassle to rent it as a house. Doesn't matter how many tenants he gets once he gets the full amount for the house. Which I assume you guys are not willing to pay. It would be easier to rent a empty house than find someone willing to share. In the end hes thinking 2 or 3 months of no rent vs a much longer term being down 25% down + more hassle.

    You might better to offer a compromise offer of 85% or 90% the full rental of the house he might go for that. Mind you he might simply want to rotate the clients in order to break your contract. The longer your in the house the longer notice he has to give you etc.

    We've rented places by the room and I'd never do it again.


  • #8
    Spyro*
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17 ✭Spyro*


    The other two who are there at the minute are just there till the end of August, then it'll be students until May. There'll be no problem finding tenants then.

    It would only be six weeks at 25% down, and then the house will be full. He hasn't given me written notice yet, and by the time that runs out it would be a week, max, until the house would be full.


  • #9
    BostonB
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,056 ✭✭✭✭BostonB


    Spyro* wrote:
    The other two who are there at the minute are just there till the end of August, then it'll be students until May. There'll be no problem finding tenants then.

    It would only be six weeks at 25% down, and then the house will be full. He hasn't given me written notice yet, and by the time that runs out it would be a week, max, until the house would be full.

    Maybe its not about the money then. He want to rent the entire house not get into a room only deal, and want to rotate the clients. This siutation is exactly how we ended up renting by room, and it ended up like that for best part of a year. You can't predict the future. You say its not your responsiblity to find people for the other room. More accurately if you are renting the house you have to pay the full rent of the house. If you choose to share with 3 instead of 4 thats your decision. If you are renting per room, then you only pay the rent for your room, and you have nothing to do with the other rooms.

    AFAIK it comes down to the written agreement/contract you have signed with the landlord. Is it by house or by room.


  • #10
    The_Conductor
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 32,286 Mod ✭✭✭✭The_Conductor


    I don't think your landlord is being unfair or unreasonable to be honest.
    Its highly unusual to rent out a house on a room-by-room basis. The house was originally rented to 4 people, 3 of whom have now left, and only two people replaced them. If you want to stay, it seems reasonable that the rent for the house as a whole should be paid. Is this something that you have considered? It might add a little impetus towards finding a replacement person.

    Certainly you didn't sign up to the grief of having to get replacement people, but then again, nor did your landlord. He let it to a group of 4 people. That original agreement is now null and void. I do not think that you could honestly describe the current situation as a tenancy- more a temporary agreement the landlord made to get you out of a hole accommodation wise.

    Check and see what exactly your rental agreement states. It sounds as though the original 4 people rented the house between them, perhaps as a convenient stop-gap measure for 3 of them.

    It sounds bizzare for a landlord to even consider renting a house on a room by room basis (unless of course these were seperate self contained units and registered as such- which plainly is not the case).

    S.


  • #11
    The_Conductor
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 32,286 Mod ✭✭✭✭The_Conductor


    Ps- very few landlords would willing contemplate letting a house partially or wholly to students either. The landlord has a right to vet proposed tenants.

    You really need to check the original lease. It sounds from the very little you have posted more like a subletting exercise on your part, than an active decision on the part of the landlord to cause him/herself no end of grief with multiple tenancies in the one house........


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  • #12
    Spyro*
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17 ✭Spyro*


    Unfortunately I don't have any sort of written agreement with him.

    I do understand what you're saying, but once September comes it'll be four people renting the house together till next May. I don't understand the logic of kicking us out when my notice wouldn't run out until a week before that happens.

    I've calmed down a bit about it now, anyway. I'll be hearing back today from someone who viewed it yesterday, and if they don't take it I suppose I'll just have to start looking. It seems very very unfair to the two who only moved in recently, though - they're going to have a hard time trying to find somewhere to rent just till the end of the summer.


  • #13
    FX Meister
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,217 ✭✭✭FX Meister


    Why not tell him you will rent the whole house for a years contract when the student season comes back. It sounds like that's what he wants anyway. I rented out a house I own as a single unit a few years ago, each paying their rent seperately. Since then it's changed to being let room by room which is more hassle for me. As soon as I have the time I'm going to give them notice, improve the house a little and rent it out as a whole unit again.
    How do you pay your rent to the landlord, each tenant paying cash or what? Do you have a rentbook that he signs?


  • #14
    FX Meister
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,217 ✭✭✭FX Meister


    Spyro* wrote:
    Unfortunately I don't have any sort of written agreement with him.
    As far as I know it's not needed. Aunt is selling off a house she has rented out for donkeys years. One dude is there over ten years so he needs something like 100 days notice. No written aggreement but that's what he's entitled to.

    It seems very very unfair to the two who only moved in recently, though - they're going to have a hard time trying to find somewhere to rent just till the end of the summer.
    So then the three of you pick up the rent! It was rented as a single unit to begin with, why should the landlord suffer because you don't want to pay the rent?


  • #15
    Spyro*
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17 ✭Spyro*


    smccarrick - he always rents to students. I am one myself. He doesn't mind that. And I'm not moving people in without him knowing - he meets them first.

    We each pay cash to the landlord. I've never had a rent book.

    I have no problem renting the whole house from September, but he's kicking us out over one room being empty until then. And it's likely I'd fill it before the end of the summer anyway. It would effectively be a group from September until May - no different to how it was last year.

    FX Meister - I'm just saying we don't have a written agreement because someone recommended I check it. I know we don't need one.

    I know for a fact that the other two won't pay more, and I can't afford to pay it myself. At this stage I am pretty much resigned to the fact I'll have to move, but I just don't think it makes sense when the room won't be empty for long.


  • #16
    BostonB
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,056 ✭✭✭✭BostonB


    Consider it this way. The landlord must be fairly reasonable if hes let you say so far. Why don't you rent the whole house? Its only 33% more for each of you, especially if you are so confident its only for 6 weeks. Grasp the opportunity and responsibility, and the landlord might respond positively to this. All he wants is full rent, good tenants and no hassle. Make it happen for him. At least ask him if you can do a deal. If he doesn't want to, he might at least tell you why. Might be another reason hes not said.

    I don't get the impression the landlord is all that orgnaised tbh. Or even registered.


  • #17
    Spyro*
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17 ✭Spyro*


    No, he's not registered for this house or any of the several others he rents out.

    He has said himself he's not sure about what to do, and he's being very civil about it, which I appreciate. I'll have to think about whether I can afford to make up the extra rent myself. I doubt it, but the others definitely won't pay more.

    Thanks for your help, anyway. Hopefully I'll sort something out.


  • #18
    BostonB
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,056 ✭✭✭✭BostonB


    FX Meister wrote:
    As far as I know it's not needed. Aunt is selling off a house she has rented out for donkeys years. One dude is there over ten years so he needs something like 100 days notice. No written aggreement but that's what he's entitled to. ...

    Its not for the notice of temination, but how is the house rented. If you've agreed to rent the house and not the room, but are only paying for 3 rooms not 4 you might be in breach of your agreement. Then the period of notice is the same. That siad if the landlord has agreed to let you stay, it won't come to that. But you should know exactly what you are renting.


  • #19
    BostonB
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,056 ✭✭✭✭BostonB


    Spyro* wrote:
    No, he's not registered for this house or any of the several others he rents out.

    He has said himself he's not sure about what to do, and he's being very civil about it, which I appreciate. I'll have to think about whether I can afford to make up the extra rent myself. I doubt it, but the others definitely won't pay more.

    Thanks for your help, anyway. Hopefully I'll sort something out.

    Oh dear.. I'd advise him to sort that out!

    Anyway, just suggest that by the time your notice is up he'll have probably found renters for the other rooms anyway. If you left say in a week he might be down 100% for 6 weeks? He'd loose more that way. Also he might not fill all the rooms straightway it might take 10 weeks to fill the house properly as people shift around.

    Besides you might find somewhere nicer.


  • #20
    Spyro*
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17 ✭Spyro*


    That's my logic! He'd probably lose more with us moving out now than if he just left it be. I might find a tenant for the empty room next week, you never know.

    I have been looking into other places, but there doesn't seem to be much at the minute. I love the house, it'd be a pity to have to leave it, but I suppose that's life.


  • #21
    FX Meister
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,217 ✭✭✭FX Meister


    BostonB wrote:
    Its not for the notice of temination, but how is the house rented. If you've agreed to rent the house and not the room, but are only paying for 3 rooms not 4 you might be in breach of your agreement. Then the period of notice is the same. That siad if the landlord has agreed to let you stay, it won't come to that. But you should know exactly what you are renting.
    Aunts house is let in seperate units. Been rented like that since '78. No lease or written agreements. She's selling the house now as she doesn't need the hassle and will probably pay off some of her other properties with the sale of this house.


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  • #22
    TCollins
    Closed Accounts Posts: 147 ✭✭TCollins


    OP, why dont you ask him for a 1 year lease and you'll be responsible for the full rent and getting any tenants in as others leave. Make a deal with him on a fair rent considering you are doing all the work now. Then when you are renting the rooms you might make a few quid.

    If there is nothing around when you are looking now, you shouldnt find it too hard to get someone in as it will be the same for them - nothing around.

    Or how about you take the small room and then try and get someone for your room if its better?

    Sounds to me like you have engineered a break form the whole house being rented to it now being rented by room, and the landlord is just trying to remedy that.


  • #23
    Spyro*
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17 ✭Spyro*


    I can't afford to pay double rent if a room is empty, so that's not really an option. As I said, it will be full from September to May, and then we'll all be gone, so there won't be hassle for him with people moving in/out. He's only losing one person's rent for a short while - surely that's better than the whole house lying empty till September?

    I don't want the smaller room either - I need a double room, and I need room for my desk as I'm going into my final year. I'd rather move out than take the smaller room.

    The guy who viewed it yesterday isn't taking it, so it looks like I will be moving out. Though as BostonB said, maybe the new place will be nicer :)

    I'm more annoyed about having to break this to the others than actually moving, to be honest. I'd be very annoyed if I were them. If the landlord leaves it even a few days or a week to give us written notice, that'd probably run up until they're moving anyway.


  • #24
    BostonB
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,056 ✭✭✭✭BostonB


    It doesn't add up that the place might be empty for weeks, but you can't find anywhere. If you've said that to the landlord he might be thinking the same thing.


  • #25
    Spyro*
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17 ✭Spyro*


    I didn't say I couldn't find anywhere - I said there didn't seem to be much. I haven't started looking properly yet.

    There's definitely not as much as there was at the start of the summer, when I thought I might be moving, but obviously there are more people moving at the start and end of the summer in a student town than in the middle of it.


  • #26
    TCollins
    Closed Accounts Posts: 147 ✭✭TCollins


    It seems to me that its a choice of either you taking the hit for the place being empty or the landlord taking it.
    The landlord started out having the place full. He then helped you out by taking the hit for it being empty for a while, but i guess he's had enough.
    If you wont take the hit he certainly wont as he can probably let the whole house and start of and stick to that arrangement with someone new who wont think its their right to change the terms of the lease.


  • #27
    Spyro*
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17 ✭Spyro*


    I didn't 'change the terms of the lease' behind his back - I asked him at the start of the summer, and he said yes. He agreed to it.

    I've never caused him problems, and I'm not now. I was just looking for opinions and advice on the amount of notice I'm due - I will move out without hassle. There's no need for the attitude.


  • #28
    BostonB
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,056 ✭✭✭✭BostonB


    Spyro* wrote:
    ....Last night he rang me to tell me he wants us out of the house, and he's planning to rent it out as a house, not room by room....

    Thats your answer. He doesn't want the hassle.
    Spyro* wrote:
    How much notice does he have to give me? I've been told 35 days, since I'm there over 12 months, but I'm not sure. We don't have a lease, and he's not registered, so am I still entitled to the same amount of notice? Also, he only told me over the phone - does he have to give me written notice or is it effective from last night?

    I'd say its 42 days. Doesn't matter if its registered, but I think he has to give you notice in writing. You should ask threshold.

    http://www.threshold.ie/menu.asp?menu=83

    It maybe the original tenancy is null and void, as you're not paying full rent for the house, that might make it 28 days. I don't think it matters that theres no written contract. But again check with threshold.
    Spyro* wrote:
    ...I think he's being incredibly unfair.

    I don't agree tbh. He let you stay when he should have made you leave with the rest, and hasn't insisted you pay full rent for the house, which he should have. I know its a PIA for you, but thats just how its meant to work.

    You could ask to remain paying for one room, until he finds new tenants, then if they are a person short of 4 could you be first in line for that place? Bearing in mind you've kept the place in good nick for people viewing the house. If a new tenants offers to rent the whole house, and don't need you. Then you'll clear out within 7 days. If he says no then insist on your legal notice period (what ever threshold tell you). That will burn all your boats with the landlord anyway, but will give you more time to find a place. Just remember its not personal its just business, and its not always about the money.


  • #29
    Spyro*
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17 ✭Spyro*


    Thank you.

    I won't do that, he's not a bad guy and it wouldn't be fair. I'll just start looking for somewhere else now - I suppose it'd be easier to find somewhere in the next few weeks than when all the students are coming back, anyway.

    Not looking forward to informing the others, though!


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