German Higher level

E92 wrote:

I know that it is somewhat different in English, but in German there is only one present tense. We have 3 forms of the Present tense in English.

Ich gehe translates as I go, I am going, I do go, I will go or I'm going to go.

Like in English you wouldn't say as you said I play soccer tommorrow, instead you'd say I'm playing soccer tomorrow or I'm going to play soccer.
And each of those translates to 'Morgen spiele ich Fußball' or if you dont like it like that 'Ich spiele morgen Fußball', though the second one is a bit of a mouthful to say, I wouldn't recommend it, but its certainly not wrong.

A lot has been made of keeping it simple. Its far simpler to use the present tense in German, as well as it being what the Germans say(which is the mot important reason really), than to use the Future(when talking about the Future), hence why I'm banging on about using it.

E92 wrote:

Yes I'm sorry. Thanks for showing up my mistakes. I'm always glad to be shown where I'm wrong. It most certainly is Sinn für Humor. I want to know why you said some of the things you said though. And by the way its übrigens(theres no d's in it), so that means we both got it wrong! I did say in another post that sind es should not be said. I know they dont accept it.Why is saying ,,Ich nehme an, dass du nicht Deutsche bist'' (I'm assuming that you're not German)wrong? I'm asking because you dont say Er ist ein Arzt, instead it's Er isr Artz. I wanted to use a noun, so I'd like to know.


As for the future tense, if using German thats not used by Germans themselves when writing letters(after all you're writing a letter to your pen pal, so you're supposed to 'know' the person) or in spoken German is considered knowing more of the language, then that says a lot about the SEC. I know the future tense is still used, just like they still use the subjunctive, but not in the situations where you have to write in German in the Leaving Cert. And using the future tense is a great opportunity to make lots of word order mistakes too. So instead of showing the examiner that you know another tense(in an inappropriate place mind you), you could well end losing marks because the word order changes when the future tense is used. Sure going by that you might as well use the Imperfect instead of the Perfect, even though the Germaans never use the imperfect in the sitations where you have to write German in the leaving.(with a couple of exceptions like sein, and I think for modal verbs the Germans use the Imperfect as well).

I know in the Oral using the Imperfect and the Future loses marks, instead of the Perfect and Present respectively. Of course when using the Present instead of the Future, you usually have to give some indication that it is the future you're talking about, like put in'morgen', 'nächste Woche' etc. Although something like 'Wir sehen uns wieder' can mean 'We'll see each other again'.


The 2 reasons why you should not use the Future tomorrow in the letter or in the Äußerung tomorrow are as follows
1- the Germans would never use it in those situations
2- it is much easier to make word order mistakes(than using the present)

I repeat the necessity of putting in some indication of the Future though, where it could be ambiguous, when you do that, like at the end of the letter, 'Hoffentlich sehen wir uns nächstes Jahr'.(Hopefully we'll see each other next year).

Nehpets wrote:

Thanks for the help E92!

"Es wird gesagt, dass die Iren rote Haare haben."
"Es wird gesagt die Iren haben rote Haare"

Can I not say either?

And "das" and "dass" - how do I know which to use?

Also is it correct to say "Ich habe mehr geld als meinen freunden" (stupid sentence but just an example)

"Jeder Mensch ist anderes" - could I say "Jeder Leute sind anderes"?

E92 wrote:

I know they still use Sie in school, after all they call us Sie in the Oral and in the paper they refer to us as Sie still, but the point I wanted to make aboue 'Siezen' is that its not that widespread anymore.In more formal German its still there of course, in the situatons you described of course you'd never use du, and for instance if I were to talk to my my exchange partners parents I would always use Sie and not du.

But as you are studying in Germany, you will have noticed that an increasing amount of Ads these days use 'du' instead of Sie,especially those aimed at young people, which almost always use du. And of course the amount of ads with slogans in English never fails to amaze me. Similarly old people calling me 'Sie' on the Street which is really odd these days. Even on the trains young people are called du by the inspectors on the trains nowadays. Sure young people call each other 'du' even if they have never met the person before, if I were stuck for directions in Germany, and I asked a person even say 5 years older than me, I'd say du to them now, whereas once upon a time you'd never use du in that situation.

Going back to the Future tense, the point I've been making is that in the situations in Leaving Cert German where you have to write in German or Speak German, there is no need to use the Future tense. In the situations where you write German in the LC the Future tense is never used by the Germans. I said you need to recognise it in say a comprehension,and actually because the State Exams Comission are special, they put it into the tape I think it was last year or else it was 2005, in a situation where its never used in reality by Germans.

When I was there last year, they started saying things like 'Ich hole dich ab' which I assumed to mean 'I'm picking you up' but what they meant is I will pick you up. I asked why dont ye say 'Ich werde dich abholen' and they told me that Germans dont do that anymore. Its not impossible, but you wouldnt say it, so I'm told.

Even my old German teacher who would be big into using all the old words, like he cant bear people using 'von dem'(which is more modern), he'd want you to use 'des' instead, says that its more usual to use the present tense. Well they said that you can say it, but its out of date to say it. I have a friend who went there for 3 months on exchange. He said the same thing, they use the present to talk about the future, and that the future is not the done thing anymore, sometimes old people do it, but certainly not young people. I watch Deutsche Welle from time to time, and I have never heard them use it.

Of course its still in use(the Future), I dont deny it, and clearly you'd know better than the rest of us, since you're living with the language, but all I'm saying is that for those who are doing LC German tomorrow, there is no need to know how to write in it(Future tense), just simply if you hear it being used in the tape or if it turns up in a comprehension, or they ask for a verb in the Futur(or Zukunft, they're special enough to still use Präteritum for Imperfekt) in the Angewandte Grammatik section to recognise it and know what it means. There isnt really what you'd call 'acedemic German' in the leaving. Most of what we learn is about how to say stuff that young people in Germany say, and naturally to know when to use du or Sie, and what would 'get us by' if we were stuck in Germnany or if we had to speak German.

I'm going for an A1 in German tomorrow. I'm not going to be writing in the Future tense in the letter or the Äußerung for that matter. And I wont be using the Imperfect either. You can be rest assured that if I thought it were necessary to use either, I'd do it. I mean I know that Germans often use 'es sind' and not 'es gibt' as we're told, and they often say 'ich hab' for 'ich habe', but I won't be writing 'es sind' or 'ich hab' tomorrow, cause I know its gramatically wrong to do it.

Gowranistan wrote:

And i thought i was good at german? You people are making me doubt my german skill.