RTE - best soccer analysis and coverage?

darkman2 · 03-05-2007 09:40PM #1

Hi.....

Ive been reading through some supporters forums for Man U, Liverpool etc etc in the UK. It seems Eamo and co are getting a name for themselves for either

1. Talking ****e

or

2. Talking sense that you would never hear on the British stations

I think the BBC and Sky and ITV are scared sh*tless to take on any English team on air inc the national team whereas here it appears we dont have that restraint. I have to say I find the lame, run of the mill commentary on the beeb and sky and ITV boring and repetitive in the extreme. For example like they go own about Ronaldo being the 'best player in world'......you just know their talking ****e that you have to bare through gritted teeth. Its the same thing week in week out. They are afraid to tackle any team and not just English teams either.

So successful are the RTE guys that one Liverpool supporter across the water has actually setup a campaign for us to get rid of them:rolleyes:

Fair enough they can be OTT at times and too controversial but for me thats the reason to watch it and not the scripted tripe that comes from British stations. I genuinely do think they offer the best analysis and tell it like it is. I find it very refreshing.

What do you all think?:)

eirebhoy · 03-05-2007 09:51PM

It's been debated to death but the RTE lads haven't a clue imo. Giles is still back in the 70's. "I agree with John/Liam/Eamon". How they agree on pretty much everything I don't know.

Give me Gullit, Wilkins, Souness, Hoddle etc. on Sky over RTE any day.

PHB · 03-05-2007 09:54PM

I like analysis. I don't like RTE. They make **** up just to have something controversial to say.

Theres a reason a lot of the commentary is boring on say BBC, it's because it's football, there's not a whole lot you can say on it without getting into serious detail.

BBC at least attempt to explain why stuff happens, like their bits on problems with the defense in terms of positioning.
Gray on Sky, despite the hype, is quite a good pundit, and basically explains stuff and why he thinks it happens.

Sky sometimes have some great analysis. RTE have souness on sometimes, and he seems pretty smart.

But Giles, Dunphy and Brady to a lesser extent, are just ****ing annoying.

btw, I betcha all the money in my pockets, that that liverpool fan hasn't heard what Dunphy normally says about Liverpool, or how he reacted during their CL run

cson · 03-05-2007 09:54PM

Been trotted out a lot around here but I like them, bit of a change from the generic plasticity that comes out of sky, I wonder has Richard Keyes ever seen a bad game? I liked Souness when he was there in the summer, I'd say he couldn't believe what he could get away with compared to Sky.

Carcharodon · 03-05-2007 09:55PM

Honesty of Effort

Cant but not love them !

Royale with Cheese · 03-05-2007 09:56PM

I like them. Beats watching Sky or BBC, their pundits just irritate me.

Sure the RTE guys may not talk sense all the time but nobody takes their opinion as sacrilige. They're alot more entertaining to watch than Jamie Redknapp or Lawro.

You'll find most people who hate them on this board do so because of their hatred for Ronaldo, or just slagging Man United/Liverpool off in general.

Savman · 03-05-2007 09:57PM

I like RTE studio discussions but coverage is brutal tbh, always cock ups with commentary or whatever. Had to switch over to ITV d'udder nite for Liverpool V Chelsea, RTE just error prone it seems.

I dont think it's a case that the English are too nice to the clubs and players, but if you think about it Sky/BBC etc. have a good workiing relationship with the clubs and usually get super interviews etc. RTE can afford to be a little more edgy because we're in a different country, which is actually nice to hear because I believe Giles, Brady and the other old coot call it like it is.

I doubt in this day and age one can afford to have too much loyalty to a particular broadcaster, I'll just watch whichever is showing the game. Its only on Champions League nite do we get a choice anyway (FWIW I prefer The Premiership to MOTD lately)

Jazzy · 03-05-2007 10:02PM

dunphy wants to sell his personality to the highest bidder in the print world. Ronaldo bashing is quite popular atm so he'll roll with that.

Giles - i dunno, he was good in 98 but now he just sounds asleep and doesnt add much depth to anything.

Brady - the best of the "A-Team"

Souness - hes good, probably the best pundit on atm (well, most in-form

), im actually interested to what he has to say because, unlike the others he seems to enjoy football.

Bill - his daughters a ride

Pepe LeFrits · 03-05-2007 10:04PM

Depends on who you support really. I remember a good few years back when Dunphy and Giles couldn't stop gushing over Man United they were a lot more popular, but now their constant criticism of Ronaldo means that United fans hate them. Their criticism of Liverpool too means that they are going to loose a lot of popularity over here.

Giles, Brady and Dunphy worship at the altar of 'footballing intelligence' and don't have much time for other types of footballing talent. They're great as long as it's not your team they're slagging off.

darkman2 · 03-05-2007 10:08PM

Another thing about the coverage is sort of hidden and its this.

Gary Lineker is the presenter for the BBC. He obviously knows his football whereas Bill O'Herlihy clearly does not and he is kind of there representing the average person and I think that adds something to it. Not sure what it is.

Haven't a Clue · 03-05-2007 10:09PM

Yeah, I agree with the OP. While not always right, the RTE pundits are at least interested in throwing their opinions out no matter how brutal they may be. It also makes it considerably more entertaining when they're having a proper rant, e.g. Dunphy's "He's a rebel..." rant on Roy Keane.

The beeb are absolutely petrified of pissing off any of the managers since Big Sam, Fergie and Harry Redknapp all refuse to do interviews with them. Sky on the other hand prefer to kiss their asses and employ Jamie Redknapp.

PHB · 03-05-2007 10:17PM

p.s. They don't enjoy football in any form.
Perfect example, last week after the Milan Utd game, which would people rather see?

A clip of Ronaldo's mess ups
A clip of Kaka's brilliance

They have a specific controversial agenda, and they do everything they can to keep people talking about them. I much prefered ITV's coverage of the Liverpool Chelsea game. Why?
Because after the game, they talked about the goals and play in general, then showed the interviews with Rafa Mourinho and Gerrard/Kuyt/Reina.

What did RTE do? Bitched about football.

eirebhoy · 03-05-2007 10:17PM

Royale with Cheese wrote:

They're alot more entertaining to watch than Jamie Redknapp or Lawro.

Redknapp is annoying but for Champions league night's he's just 1 of 3. What I like about Sky is Redknapp or whoever could ask Gullit how a certain Milan player is getting on and you can trust his opinion. Bill asks Brady about Italian football and he does nothing more than pretend.

At the end of the day the Sky lads know a lot more than any of us. I really believe many of us on this forum are more knowledgable than those on RTE. I agree with Pepe to a certain extent that they only appreciate a real reader of the game but Giles had no time for Riquelme at the world cup because he didn't work off the ball.

Pepe LeFrits · 03-05-2007 10:28PM

eirebhoy wrote:

Redknapp is annoying but for Champions league night's he's just 1 of 3. What I like about Sky is Redknapp or whoever could ask Gullit how a certain Milan player is getting on and you can trust his opinion. Bill asks Brady about Italian football and he does nothing more than pretend.

At the end of the day the Sky lads know a lot more than any of us. I really believe many of us on this forum are more knowledgable than those on RTE. I agree with Pepe to a certain extent that they only appreciate a real reader of the game but Giles had no time for Riquelme at the world cup because he didn't work off the ball.

Methinks you send a CV in...!

Bill: "Tonight we have John, Liam, Eamonn and our new panelist, eirebhoy from boards.ie."

Riquelme doesn't fit into their idea of a 'real footballer'. It seems to be that a player must be very intelligent, work hard, be humble (or at least vaguely respectful and mature), be very skillful, have great vision, possess leadership qualities and many other attributes. I've noticed that they often climax over Scholes and Fabregas, and who could forget Eamo's love for Roy.

Mossy Monk · 03-05-2007 10:29PM

RTÉ are much better than boring BBC, annoying ITV and arse kissing Sky.

LostinBlanch · 03-05-2007 11:06PM

I agree with the OP about English stations being scared sh1tless of slagging English teams. Fergies boycott has the BBC so wound up they won't slag anyone else off for fear their manager would do the same. What would they do without Maureen for example?

RTE aren't hampered by that, so Giles, Dunphy and Brady can and do say what they want. I don't always agree with it, but sometimes they can spot something that others haven't.

TBH I think we've been spoiled with them. Over the time I've seen them they've definitely been some of the top pundits I've seen worldwide. They're fading a bit now, but still a lot better than the alternatives.

PS anyone got a link to RTE's coverage of the 1982 World Cup 3rd place playoff? It was the one where Ray Treacy was the pundit with a Dunphy dummy on his knee going on about Platini being a good player but not a great player. Great fun, though Eamo didn't see the funny side and stayed away from RTE until 1990.

MisterAnarchy · 03-05-2007 11:14PM

Rte are by far the best of the bunch analysis wise.
BBC were the best and the benchmark until Lineker arrived on the scene and he dumbed their coverage down no end.
Wrighty,Leo,Garth Crooks,pure muppets ,should be on some kids show.
Hansen used to be forthright and interesting,now he is obviously told what to say.Everything is 'Great''Super''Amazing'.
Lawrenson is a yes man.
Now that they have Gabby Logan they will sink even further.
ITV are a shambles,all yes men,all reading from the same hymn sheet.
Sky are quite good and have impressed me this season bar Andy Gray who is a moron but they are selling an expensive product so they will never criticise their own product.
RTE are flawed but they are at least honest,no hidden agenda.

Ghost Train · 03-05-2007 11:19PM

I like the style and find it very entertaining. I think it's better that they're critical and can have a laugh at the odd player or manager. They don't always get it right but their analysis in a lot of cases makes sense. I think fans can take it personally if their team is being talked down, but if they don't like the (mostly) honest criticism they shouldn't watch it

heres last nights ronaldo discussion
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yQOSmTPrTGY

leninbenjamin · 04-05-2007 12:32AM

Bill - nice personality, good presenter, usually asks the right questions imo
Giles - very old school, but is refreshing in this age of hype and commercialism
Brady - usually spot on imo
Dunphy - well, he's Dunphy. usually the point he starts to make is a good one, but goes over the top, but he's made a career out of it and i don't expect anything else. can be entertaining when he disagrees with the others.

i like the RTÉ coverage. BBC probably have some better pundits at times (i can't stand Wright though, and Shearer can be bloody useless too), but are afraid to speak their minds. Sky never ever have much to say of value. the odd time someone like Gullit will speak their minds, but for them analysis is just a way of killing a minute or two before they can show you the ads. ITV is cringeworthy stuff.

I usually find myself watching the matches on the English channels because they come down in widescreen, but almost invariably find myself switching over for RTÉ analysis. the old lads are like an institution, not always right in their predictions (then again who is?), but they say it how they see it and have no qualms over it. I'd hate to see them being taken off the air.

Edit: I also think there analysis of Ronaldo last night is spot on. he's only ever good when he does the simple thing, use his pace to go by. the step-overs and flicks rarely pay off. there's also still something really lacking from his game mentality wise. very rarely does he create space, and sometimes his best contribution is that he's so ever hyped that teams focus all their effort on nullfying him, and give Giggs and Scholes too much freedom. it didn't occur to him though last night that he could use Milans over lapping to his advantage, he kept going into the crowd instead of pulling away from it. he just lacks a level of intelligence. i hope it comes with experience, because he's got everything else to become a great, and there have been signs this season i guess that it is happening, but he still has a good bit to go for me.

Call Me Jimmy · 04-05-2007 12:38AM

Pepe LeFrits wrote:

I've noticed that they often climax over Scholes and Fabregas

hah great line, up there with the likes of "Reality is Kaka".

ronbyrne2005 · 04-05-2007 02:27AM

RTE panel are best in UK/ROI, not perfect or always right but always entertaining. Their viewership figures say it all really. When a match is on bbc/utv and rte at same time (everyone in ireland has these stations) RTE win out by huge margin every time. People dont like the RTE panel because they go against their biased and ignorant views. I feel they are the most objective analysts in UK/ROI and have been around for nearly 20 years so must be doing something right.

daveg · 04-05-2007 08:25AM

Personally I really enjoy David Pleats commentry on ITV. For match analyses I think Alan Hansen and Mark Lawrenson really are second to none.

Of the 3 muppets in RTE I have respect for Giles. He does know his football and he is entertaining.

Worst one of all though has to be Peter Schmeichel!!!

iregk · 04-05-2007 08:38AM

I think this has been done to death on boards. If its not arguing about comments they made in match threads we have a thread roughly every 6 months on them.

For me personally I love them. Sky is so bloody boring and BBC is just so god dam awful and smug its hard to watch. The reason I like RTE well its different. I don't need Andy Gray to tell me Gillardino scored becasue of a big gap in the united defense I can see that formyself. What I want is the 3 lads who are basically having conversations that I'd have in the pub with the lads. Except obviously for the "in my day bill" or "billy bremner...."

Yes Giles hasn't moved on with football since the 70's and seems somewhat disgusted that the sport has left him behind. Yes if its not world class football or Arsenal Brady isn't interested and if its not controversal Dunphy isn't interested but thats what makes it brilliant.

The big thing is and I've said this before. The prem is not our product, we don't need to keep on the good side of the teams for fear of loosing access or for fear of damaging the brand we are trying to sell to the world. We are in the great position where we can be totally honest and say if a game was crap or not because it makes no odds to us. Thats the big difference between them all. Sky's worst comment on a player: "didn't quite happen for him today" RTE's: "he was brutal, didn't work didn't track back wasn't interested at all" Thats what I want to hear.

Vince135792003 · 04-05-2007 08:46AM

Above all else they are entertaining. They provoke a reaction out of you whether you agree with them or not. The same can't be said for a lot of the coverage across the pond.

The Muppet · 04-05-2007 08:47AM

I don't watch them any more as they appear to have lost their impartiality.

Take their treatment of Ronaldo , he was heavily criticised last season and rightly so but this year his performances have been a lot better (with the odd exception) yet they still slate him, Why? For me it's becasue they do not want to be proved wrong about him.

They keep harping on about him not being the best player in the world, Who said he was ? They maointain he is not world class, I think any team would be delighted to have him available to them. I think that makes him a world class player.

Souness is an exellent soocer pundit .

Dunphy , you know what you're getting. He just tries to be controversial. If he's slating your team you hated him if he's slating the enemy you love him, He's made career out of it but I don't take hime seriously anymore

Giles . I am dissapointed with him because he was always pretty straight with his analysis.

I watch United games elsewhere now as I put little value on Giles or Dunphys opinion. I know what they are going to say before they say it.

adox · 04-05-2007 09:55AM

I actually like Paul Merson the odd time hes on Sky as a pundit.Hes as near as they get to having someone being controversial.

RTE have just got completely predictable and boring at this stage.I mean it was fun at the start seeing them slate teams and players and slagging off the British press but not its just so predictable its boring.All they do is moan.......and moan......and moan.....

Dunphy who likes to think of himself as a rebel and above the rest of the sporting press is nothing more than a tabloid journalist.He really has run his course at this stage.

Giles is Giles and will moan til the cows come home.You`d wonfer if he actually enjoys watching football.

Brady was up until recently quite watchable but he seems to have fallen under the spell of Dunphy and Giles lately and is just as predictable.

Of the commentators out there I really enjoy the under used Ian Darke on Sky.Hes not the most knowledgeable and makes planty of mistakes but he always sounds likes hes really enjoying the game and gets very excited.:D

shane86 · 04-05-2007 09:55AM

For a start most English punditry seems to last about 4 mins. The RTE boys are on for at least 10-15 post match.

I love it, if RTE was widely available in England I doubt ITV etc would get one viewer. Brady bores me slightly. Giles is usually on the mark. And then Dunphy. The man the myth the legend. The box office draw as someone once called him here. He is the punditry equivalent of securing De Niro or Samuel L as the lead man in the film your making. The reason people watch. Hes right sometimes. He talks an awful lot of ****e sometimes. Regardless, its often hilarious and you are guaranteed to listen.

The Insider · 04-05-2007 10:00AM

The Muppet wrote:

They keep harping on about him not being the best player in the world, Who said he was ?

Basically every pundit in England (Andy Gray, Shearer etc).

For me there still the top pundits out there by a mile, yes Dunphy goes over the top but he does come out with some cracker lines (reality is Kaka, Hype is Ronaldo, was laughing for 5 mins at that one).

For me Giles is the best pundit on the telly and Brady knows his stuff to.

I think there is so much debate on this issue because they haven't gone along with the notion that Ronaldo is the best player in the world and that the ManU team is up there with the greatest teams Fergie has delivered before, therefore annoying a lot of Utd fans, IMO they are just stating the truth.

It was the same years ago when Liverpool won the plastic treble, they basically said Liverpool were not a great team and GH was not a great manager, I remember a huge amount of Liverpool fans getting annoyed saying the UEFA cup run proved different etc etc... but as time showed they were right.

Savman · 04-05-2007 10:11AM

"Reality is Kaka, hype is Ronaldo."
That was quote of the year.
Love him or hate him, you'd be hard pushed to disagree....

iregk · 04-05-2007 10:41AM

Ok its obvious that the main sticking point with a lot of people is the Ronaldo issue. now the way I see it is that I pretty much agree with them, although they do go a little ott at times. The UK press have rammed down our throats all year how he is the best player in the world etc... Now Ronaldo has had a good domestic year this season but still only 1 decent game in europe (roma) throughout his career.

You cannot call a player world class or a great because he has had 1 good season and 1 decent game at the top level. Wait until next year and if Ronaldo does it all again and this time in europe you will see them back him. Kaka has done it consistently for a few years hence why they back him. I don't want to spark off a Kaka v Ronaldo war but you see what I'm saying.

In general they dont like the UK media. They are now harping on about 3 semi final teams mean its now conclusively the best league in the world. Not so long ago Serie A had 3 semi finalists yet they never said anything about that being the best league no they still peddled the prem as the best in the world. Its that kind of thing the RTE boys hate and thats why they attack it. Rightly so in my opinion.

PHB · 04-05-2007 10:47AM

Savman wrote:

"Reality is Kaka, hype is Ronaldo."
That was quote of the year.
Love him or hate him, you'd be hard pushed to disagree....

You would. However, I'm sure if I went back to say the World Cup, you'd have a bit talking about how Kaka was so overrated compared to say Rooney.
He doesn't have any opinions, he just goes with the flow, or against the flow, to cause a stir.
He's just totally inconsistant in every way, so why the **** would I listen to him?

RTE - best soccer analysis and coverage?

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