Gardai learn basic Polish in their bid to serve immigrants

Dord · 01-05-2007 11:51PM

Tbh I think its a good idea that they're getting some basic Polish lessons.

Lesson 1

How to say "Are you the proprietor of this motor vehicle?" in Polish.

Gardai: That's it lads, thats all we need to know!

:D:D

PCros · 01-05-2007 11:53PM

nesf wrote:

That simply doesn't work. Firstly as a percentage of our population immigrants make up a very large part so proportionately immigrants are going to cause a large percentage of our crime assuming that they cause as many crimes per head of population as Irish people. Secondly, crimes that would never make French or German (to take an example) media coverage warrant it here because really there aren't that many crimes committed on a daily basis compared to most other countries. Thirdly, linking to news sites as a means of backing up your point is worthless. Link to official crime figures or studies if you want to give weight to your points.

Yeah written and published articles are sources. So what exactly is your point that you are trying to make?

Have you got figures saying immigrants are not committing crimes?

OPENROAD · 01-05-2007 11:57PM

PCros wrote:

You ever travelled?

Okay just take a look at the RTE news, breaking news website, scroll along and you will see at least three or four immigrants up for something or another.

http://www.rte.ie/news/2007/0501/driving.html
http://www.unison.ie/breakingnews/index.php3?ca=9&si=109275
http://www.unison.ie/irish_independent/stories.php3?ca=9&si=1402245&issue_id=12518

Just a few.

Go to any foreign news website and find me anything on Irish people commiting crimes

Have I ever travelled? Yes I actually travel every other week, and you?
So you back up your argument with some website news items? what does that prove? Some of my own ones below, not all crime is reported in the media now is it? especially in large cities which Dublin is not.
Come on at least try and back up your argument.

http://www.rte.ie/news/2007/0402/wrightb.html
http://www.irishabroad.com/news/irishinamerica/news/IrishmanAdmitsBankRobbery.asp
http://www.lse.co.uk/ShowStory.asp?story=FD1929196Y&news_headline=irishman_given_6_years_for_death_of_love_rival

Kintarō Hattori · 02-05-2007 12:09AM

Steyr wrote:

Polish hard working? ha ha ha NO gimme a break i work with alot of them and i can honestly say they are lazy.

Interesting but I would put that down to your own experiances. The general consensus is that the Polish are indeed hard workers. The company I work for has from time to time been wary of taking on foreign workers as we'd had some bad experiances, but in the last three years we've had a number of Polish workers and every single one of them has been commendable. They are by far the hardest working nationality we employ.

Kintarō Hattori · 02-05-2007 12:14AM

GarraiGamhain wrote:

Not its not. Irish people speak better english than polish people.

Fair enough you want to be free and easy with the lingo as you're on a message board but as anyone with a drop of intelligence will tell you if you are going to criticise something then you should lead by example. Your criticisim of the Polish for their quality of english is most likely not going to be taken seriously as yours isn't so hot either.

Kintarō Hattori · 02-05-2007 12:15AM

RoundyMooney wrote:

Read what I wrote again.

Ha Ha Ha. Oh thank you very much that was class. He couldn't see what you had written for the eagerness of trying to be clever.

Kintarō Hattori · 02-05-2007 12:16AM

daenis wrote:

Yes, I think that if one language is going to be learned by the gardi then all languages of significant communities should also be learned, or none at all.

OK that is a fair enough point, but you can hardly expect our fine Gardai to learn all the major migrant languages in one fell swoop? Small steps, crawl before you can walk.

Kintarō Hattori · 02-05-2007 12:17AM

0ubliette wrote:

Well personally i think with ireland being the size it is, and the volume of immigrants coming in right now, that we should only let in the ones who are willing to integrate properly, and in my book that means speaking the native tongue of that country, rather than waste our resources and police time getting gardai polish lessons. (yes i know english technically isnt our native tongue but you get my meaning )

How do you tell who these people are? Is there ability to speak english their willingness to integrate? They might very well speak fine fine english but be complete social and religous outcasts. Rethink what you wrote above.

Kintarō Hattori · 02-05-2007 12:20AM

0ubliette wrote:

I've said it before and i'll say it again, anyone wanting to live here should be able to pass a mandatory basic level english exam first. I wouldnt go and live in poland and expect the poles to bend over backwards accommodating me and my non polish speaking.

I don't think the Poles expect anyone to bend over backwards for them. It was state initiated and not at the request of the Polish people. Do any of you here pay attention to the news and the problems that other successful economies have? Other nations are experiancing huge integration problems with people of different nationalities, such as can be seen in the US and UK.

The goverment is taking a positive step in integrating these people into the social fabric of Ireland and not alienating them.

Goodshape · 02-05-2007 12:23AM

kearnsr wrote:

Personnel I don't think that they should be learning Polish the same way I wouldn't expect the polish police to learn English or the Germans. I don't think that when countries like Germany had a big influx of Irish during the 80's learnt Irish.

Do you think many of the people emigrating from Ireland in the 1980's spoke Irish?

Aside from that, have you travelled to many European cities (eastern or otherwise) recently? In my experience, most if not all service professionals (including police) speak at least English as a second language.

luckat · 02-05-2007 12:51AM

This discussion seems to be generating more heat than light.

Of course it's a good thing for the gardai to learn some basic Polish. They're in the job to prevent crime and to help people.

Let's say a distraught woman (let's say a Polish version of Baiba Saulite....) runs up screaming something in Polish. She's terrified, she can't think straight, she can't muster one word of her normally fluent English.

(This kind of terror is daily work for the garda on the beat, by the way.)

If the garda has a few words of Polish - and a few of Latvian, Estonian, Mandarin, Tagalog, etc - even if it's only "What's your name? Where are you from? What do you need?" - s/he can calm the terrified punter down and give some help.

Despite the macho carry-on of the latest Garda advisors, the most useful thing the gardai do is nothing to do with carrying guns or Tasers or any of that nonsense. It's calming situations down, cooling people's tempers and defusing potentially explosive standoffs.

Every psychological tool a garda can get should be given generously.

As for whether immigrants should be in the country: well, would you like to go back to the Ireland of the 1950s, lily-white, monolingual in two languages, with rampant child abuse hidden by the ruling Church and State, and emigration bleeding the heart out of the country - and endless dull days of more boredom? Here you go, sir, step into my handy time machine.

I'll stay here, thanks, with vivid immigrants, international food and music and culture, and a much-needed expansion of our over-concentrated gene pool.

02-05-2007 01:27AM

Mossy Monk wrote:

Ireland has a sizable Chinese community too. Will they be learning that too?

yeah this has been going on for years
and do you see any chinese speaking gardai
what is it ?:rolleyes:
was there a secret bloody vote that we missed out on that for all the nationalitys coming into ireland

that we get to decide which one we'll decide to throughly welcome by choosing to bring in the language and food(which is acceptable to a degree) and not only that get our police force to learn it.
hmmm seems a bit strange
why don't they speak german or french too

Rb · 02-05-2007 01:34AM

coolsmileygirl wrote:

why don't they speak german or french too

Duurrrrr care to use your brain a little?

SimpleSam06 · 02-05-2007 01:34AM

nesf wrote:

That simply doesn't work. Firstly as a percentage of our population immigrants make up a very large part so proportionately immigrants are going to cause a large percentage of our crime assuming that they cause as many crimes per head of population as Irish people.

Wut. Either they commit as many crimes per capita or they are, as a group, more criminally inclined. Or possibly less. None of these instances explain the above sentence.

eo980 wrote:

The general consensus is that the Polish are indeed hard workers.

So your girlfriend is polish?

eo980 wrote:

Your criticisim of the Polish for their quality of english is most likely not going to be taken seriously as yours isn't so hot either.

Straight up bullshit. When in Rome, my son.

eo980 wrote:

Small steps, crawl before you can walk.

So speaking Polish is crawling is it?

eo980 wrote:

Is there ability to speak english their willingness to integrate?

Yes. Deal with it.

eo980 wrote:

The goverment is taking a positive step in integrating these people into the social fabric of Ireland and not alienating them.

By initiating dual language policies, the government is encouranging ghettoisation and segregation. Not integration.

02-05-2007 01:38AM

rb_ie wrote:

Duurrrrr care to use your brain a little?

care to explain your comment i was stating a valid point
they are both reputable european languages which gardai wouldn't bother learning

Owen · 02-05-2007 02:00AM

Sorry SimpleSam06, I've personally employed several Polish people, and while I was disappointed by one or two, the majority were diligent, polite, and above all else eager. Something that no Irish worker has been about a low paid job for a long time. These people were grateful for work - simple as that.

And eo980 is perfectly correct in what he is saying. The amount of people on this forum who are shouting to be heard, complaining about the Polish community's level of English, are the same people who's grammar is sorely lacking. It's embarrassing.

SimpleSam06 wrote:

By initiating dual language policies, the government is encouranging ghettoisation and segregation. Not integration.

If that's the case then ban the Gaeltacht! Ban the Gaeltacht! Variety my friend is the spice of life. I welcome our Multicultural Nation!

coolsmileygirl wrote:

care to explain your comment i was stating a valid point
they are both reputable european languages which gardai wouldn't bother learning

I think he means to qualify his statement, by pointing out the vast community of Polish we have here, in comparison to the smaller French and German communities. Insulting you, however, is not the way to do it.

This thread is going wildly off topic. A 10 week course isn't going to cost the tax payer a whole lot of money and if anything, it will save in interpretive costs for the Gardaí. It will help to diffuse awkward situations, and in situations requiring a rapid response (Handbags stolen 30 seconds ago, babies stolen, someone being beaten up around the corner, etc.), it will aid the Gardaí in doing their job. No matter how much of a spin you put on it, there isn't a single bad side to that argument.

The day we choose who to let in to our respective Countries, based on their linguistic skills, is the day we can truly forget the tenets the EU was built upon. Equality, liberty, and mutually beneficial open borders.

SimpleSam06 · 02-05-2007 02:17AM

ned78 wrote:

Sorry SimpleSam06, I've personally employed several Polish people, and while I was disappointed by one or two, the majority were diligent, polite, and above all else eager.

Alrighty, so lets file that under "anecdote". Any and all links to stats proving Polish workers are more efficient will be roundly welcomed. Any further anecdotes will be given the reception they deserve.

ned78 wrote:

The amount of people on this forum who are shouting to be heard, complaining about the Polish community's level of English, are the same people who's grammar is sorely lacking. It's embarrassing.

You entirely missed my point. Regardless of how poor the grammar of the posters on boards is, the grammar of Polish migrants is worse, if the Guards need to learn the language in order to cope.

ned78 wrote:

If that's the case then ban the Gaeltacht! Ban the Gaeltacht! Variety my friend is the spice of life. I welcome our Multicultural Nation!

So you're telling me the Gaeltacht isn't a cultural ghetto? My own missus is Asian, yay multiculturalism, but even I can smell the bullshit coming from this situation.

ned78 wrote:

A 10 week course isn't going to cost the tax payer a whole lot of money and if anything, it will save in interpretive costs for the Gardaí.

It costs more than it should, and whatever it saves should be paid for by the defendant, as several posters have already pointed out.

Judt · 02-05-2007 02:19AM

PCros wrote:

If Polish people start trouble and commit crimes then the should be kicked out of the country and sent home and let their justice system take care of them, end of story instead of wasting thousands on court cases when we have enough of our own to deal with!

That goes for any nationality that are living here.

Its pathetic, if you even dared to try and commit a crime in any other country they would kick you out so fast you wouldnt know what hit you.

Again too many civil rights groups and too much political correctness is ruining this country.

How many (obviously Spanish speaking) Irish does Spain deport back to us every year? :rolleyes:

Kintarō Hattori · 02-05-2007 02:25AM

SimpleSam06 wrote:

Wut. Either they commit as many crimes per capita or they are, as a group, more criminally inclined. Or possibly less. None of these instances explain the above sentence.

So your girlfriend is polish?

Straight up bullshit. When in Rome, my son.

So speaking Polish is crawling is it?

Yes. Deal with it.

By initiating dual language policies, the government is encouranging ghettoisation and segregation. Not integration.

To be honest all your points above weren't particuarly good 'comebacks'.

stepbar · 02-05-2007 02:25AM

To be fair, immigrants should have a basic level of english before they come into the country. What does it say about the immigrants who dont and make no effort to? It looks poorly on them for not making the effort to integrate. At the end of the day its not about being racist, its about having a respect for the culture and values of the nation you come to. If I go to Spain I should be able to speak some spanish, however it doesnt mean I have to use it all the time. Being able to speak ones language (IMO) is a sign of showing respect to that person. The english language is part of our culture and therefore you need english to be able to communicate and integrate properly into irish society. I have no problem with government services etc being provided in polish etc but I dont think we should be bending over backwards. Otherwise, there's no incentive to learn. The Gov providing classes free of charge might be the way forward.

SimpleSam06 · 02-05-2007 02:28AM

eo980 wrote:

In fairness all your points were poor and ill thought out. You'll need to do better in order to convince me.

Oh right. Sorry. I'll try to do better next time.

*snigger*

Oh yeah, in fairness.

Owen · 02-05-2007 02:29AM

stepbar wrote:

To be fair, immigrants should have a basic level of english before they come into the country.

No. They shouldn't. It would be nice if they could ... but the word 'should' implies that we'll close our borders if they don't.

Kintarō Hattori · 02-05-2007 02:30AM

SimpleSam06 wrote:

Oh right. Sorry. I'll try to do better next time.

*snigger*

Oh yeah, in fairness.

We'll leave it at this, your not putting forth a convincing debate, and your certainly not helping others who believe it's a waste of time/money/resources ect etc.

nesf · 02-05-2007 02:31AM

SimpleSam06 wrote:

Wut. Either they commit as many crimes per capita or they are, as a group, more criminally inclined. Or possibly less. None of these instances explain the above sentence.

It was meant in context of him using media reports as a source of evidence that immigrants cause a lot of crime. Proportionately more of our crime is caused by immigrants than say Norway's because we have a higher proportion of immigrants in our population. Thus you see more crime reports involving immigrants in our media than others, also for other various reasons.

stepbar · 02-05-2007 02:32AM

ned78 wrote:

No. They shouldn't. It would be nice if they could ... but the word 'should' implies that we'll close our borders if they don't.

Why not?

Kintarō Hattori · 02-05-2007 02:33AM

stepbar wrote:

To be fair, immigrants should have a basic level of english before they come into the country.

As ned pointed out, this simply isn't how modern economies work. So much of our success is founded on the work that many economic migrants do. Labourers, cleaner's etc.

SimpleSam06 · 02-05-2007 02:33AM

eo980 wrote:

We'll leave it at this, your not putting forth a convincing debate, and your certainly not helping others who believe it's a waste of time/money/resources ect etc.

Great great. Had you anything of value to add or just more fat hawking?

Owen · 02-05-2007 02:33AM

stepbar wrote:

Why not?

Because ... at the risk of repeating this over and over again ... this is the EU. If an Irish person wants to work in McDonalds in Portugal flipping burgers, they shouldn't have to learn the language.

nesf · 02-05-2007 02:35AM

Eh, calm it down a tad lads it's beginning to get a bit personal and far off-topic.

SimpleSam06 · 02-05-2007 02:36AM

nesf wrote:

Proportionately more of our crime is caused by immigrants than say Norway's because we have a higher proportion of immigrants in our population.

Okay, so immigrants are as likely to commit crimes as Irish people. I've never seen any facts to back up either point of view, and its likely I never will, so possibly its best to leave it there...

Gardai learn basic Polish in their bid to serve immigrants

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