Gardai learn basic Polish in their bid to serve immigrants

The Saint · 01-05-2007 04:39PM

I find this arguement about all goods and services only being provided in English and let everyone else learn the language if they want to understand it quite odd. Many cities I've been to around Europe where I do not speak the language that I have availed of services in English. Menu's, bank machines with numerous language options, speaking to police in English, etc. I think I would be pretty lost if these options were not available to me and was quite grateful that they were there even though these were not in the native language of the country. Should they have just spoken to me in their language even if they have the capacity to speak to me in English just to teach me a lesson that I should learn the language if I'm going to be there?

I think I would be a hypocrite if I then went on to complain about certain services being provided in a language other than English. I'd love to see every Irish holiday maker going abroad to their resorts in Ibiza, etc, and everything and everyone speaking in Spanish.

There's a demographic to be catered for and I don't see a problem with this. No one moving to a country with a language different to theirs is going to be fluent in the native tongue but they should ineveitably learn. There is however a transition period.

digitally-yours · 01-05-2007 04:41PM

robinph wrote:

Well with evidence of the size of the Polish population in Ireland as extensively researched as that I guess you must be right.

I'll agree that the census is not right but there is no way that it is out by 400% in their guestimate.

well we agree to disagree

but i am telling u its much higher then you can imagine.

you are just seeing whats being shown to you. You dont know whats real story behind the scenes.

I have nothing against polish people.Infact i am married to one

All i am saying is that government is not showing the true picture.

digitally-yours · 01-05-2007 04:44PM

RoundyMooney wrote:

English speakers in Poland will get by just fine, in the cities at least. One benefit of being a former part of the British Empire!

hahah one more stupid one

Poland have never been a part of British Empire

Update your self
Linky

RoundyMooney · 01-05-2007 04:46PM

Read what I wrote again.

DonJose · 01-05-2007 04:46PM

robinph wrote:

By your wildly exagerated numbers though there would be well over 1/2 million immigrants in Ireland and with a total population of just over 4 million can you still not see that is clearly wrong.

You are the one who is totally wrong.

Total Allocation of PPSNs by Nationality - EU Accession states from 1 May 2004 to February 2007

Poland - 202,338
Lithuania - 48,913
Latvia - 24,259
Slovakia - 26,598
Czech Republic - 12,798
Hungary - 10,153
Estonia - 5,199
Slovenia - 251
Malta - 435
Cyprus - 93
Romania - 6,472
Bulgaria - 291
Total - 337,800

http://www.welfare.ie/topics/ppsn/ppsstat.html

Those numbers are the ones who applied for PPS numbers, there must be tens of thousands unregistered. Then there are at least 100,000 Chinese. Add on tens of thousands of asylum seekers, Western Europeans. The number of foreigners/immigrants living in Ireland easily exceeds 500,000, plus the 3 living in my house

digitally-yours · 01-05-2007 04:50PM

DonJose wrote:

You are the one who is totally wrong.

Total Allocation of PPSNs by Nationality - EU Accession states from 1 May 2004 to February 2007

Poland - 202,338
Lithuania - 48,913
Latvia - 24,259
Slovakia - 26,598
Czech Republic - 12,798
Hungary - 10,153
Estonia - 5,199
Slovenia - 251
Malta - 435
Cyprus - 93
Romania - 6,472
Bulgaria - 291
Total - 337,800

http://www.welfare.ie/topics/ppsn/ppsstat.html

Those numbers are the ones who applied for PPS numbers, there must be tens of thousands unregistered. Then there are at least 100,000 Chinese. Add on tens of thousands of asylum seekers, Western Europeans. The number of foreigners/immigrants living in Ireland easily exceeds 500,000, plus the 3 living in my house

That proves my point and loads of them dont have pps number they are just "cash in hand workers" so see the difference these figures are more close to my figures and these are the "ATLEAST" figures thats why i said the original figures are near 300,000

DonJose · 01-05-2007 04:56PM

digitally-yours wrote:

That proves my point and loads of them dont have pps number they are just "cash in hand workers" so see the difference these figures are more close to my figures and these are the "ATLEAST" figures thats why i said the original figures are near 300,000

You can add at least another 10,000 each month to that figure from EU Accession States alone.

January - 11,833
February - 11,393
March -10,497

Ponster · 01-05-2007 05:04PM

GarraiGamhain wrote:

If he had of just learned english then there would be no problem. It makes a lot more sense for somebody who is emigrating ot an english speaking country, having already learned english for ten years at school to improve his english than for an Irish Garda to start learning polish.

How about you take a few more English lessons and come back when you can actually type it properly?
No offense but you don't seem to be in a position to be throwing stones...

hahah one more stupid one

Poland have never been a part of British Empire

I think you'll find that he was referring to the fact that Ireland was once part of the Empire.

RoundyMooney · 01-05-2007 05:08PM

Alessandra · 01-05-2007 05:17PM

Some of you are utter hypocrites. Ranting about how them foreigners should learn English in order to communicate with us when you yourselves don't even care for a second language and would quite happily head off to some spanish resort/european city where you are afforded the luxury of friendly english speaking staff and translated signs are information in English at every corner. Singling out the Polish community(which in my opinion are the most hard-working people and make every effort to converse in English and learn the language) is unjust. See how many of them work in our low-paid jobs and speak freely to you each day? Soemtime even fluent speakers get confused when setting up a bank account or dealing with the police or other officials. Surely it is only right that our police force should be equipped to speak the basics and communcate with a people that make up such a large part of our country.Whilst having polish services available to them may not encourage them to speak English at least it might ease the pain for them of being away from home and working long hours and keep them in touch with their home. I really welcome this move by the gardai.

godtabh · 01-05-2007 05:47PM

Personnel I don't think that they should be learning Polish the same way I wouldn't expect the polish police to learn English or the Germans. I don't think that when countries like Germany had a big influx of Irish during the 80's learnt Irish.

If you go to a foreign country you should do as the locals do.

I've no problem when any foreign national living over here not learning the language but as has been said before if they do get in trouble with the law and translation services should be at their costs not the states as it is else were. I wouldn't expect anything less if I went aboard.

Mind you there is also a need for a translation service for non nationals who needs help but I don't see why rank and file Gardai need to learn Polish or any other foreign language. If this is brought in were does it stop? A 999 operator who is fluent in <insert language> encase a <insert nationality> is in trouble but cant speak English?

I work with a lot on non-nationals. Not all of the speak great English but we all get by.

godtabh · 01-05-2007 05:51PM

Alessandra wrote:

Whilst having polish services available to them may not encourage them to speak English at least it might ease the pain for them of being away from home and working long hours and keep them in touch with their home.

They have a choice. No one has forced them to work here.

Allot of people work long hours and dont see their family much.

A Polish person can get home faster than some one who has to travel Belfast to Cork. Its all relative

Owen · 01-05-2007 06:03PM

kearnsr wrote:

A Polish person can get home faster than some one who has to travel Belfast to Cork. Its all relative

I agree it's relative, but someone from Belfast can fly too you know.

Steyr · 01-05-2007 07:32PM

Alessandra wrote:

Some of you are utter hypocrites. Ranting about how them foreigners should learn English in order to communicate with us when you yourselves don't even care for a second language and would quite happily head off to some spanish resort/european city where you are afforded the luxury of friendly english speaking staff and translated signs are information in English at every corner. Singling out the Polish community(which in my opinion are the most hard-working people and make every effort to converse in English and learn the language) is unjust..

lol @ The above They came here to work so they should have a basic grasp of the English Language at least before even stepping onto Irish Soil, there is a difference between going over to Spain for a Holiday and for going there to work. Polish hard working? ha ha ha NO gimme a break i work with alot of them and i can honestly say they are lazy.

godtabh · 01-05-2007 07:37PM

ned78 wrote:

I agree it's relative, but someone from Belfast can fly too you know.

Not every one can afford to fly be it Irish or non national. I was just making the point that in this world no one is to far from home

Rb · 01-05-2007 07:54PM

As others have said, if it helps the Gardaí do their job, then its a positive thing.

However, I hold the opinion that if you're immigrating to an English speaking country, or any other country with a different native language with the intention of working, you should have at least the basics down. Its just pure ignorance to come here and refuse to learn the language, or attempt to integrate in native society just because there is a community of your own people established already.

However, the majority of the Poles I've encountered have had at least basic English, and I've yet to meet an Asian immigrant who can't speak at least semi-fluently.

Whats more worrying is the fact that there seems to be enough non-English speaking Poles here causing enough trouble to warrant such a measure to be implemented.I'd prefer to see the money that will be invested in the Gardaís education in the language spent on transport for these criminals to the docks/back home tbh.

aidan_walsh · 01-05-2007 07:59PM

Do we have to assume that the program was suggested because of Polish people making trouble? The Gardai are there as a community service. We don't know what the motivations behind the program are.

Rb · 01-05-2007 08:14PM

aidan_walsh wrote:

Do we have to assume that the program was suggested because of Polish people making trouble? The Gardai are there as a community service. We don't know what the motivations behind the program are.

Well tbh, I would hope that its actually needed, rather than it being a case of the Government throwing the tax payers cash down the drain.

Not that I *hope* theres a load of Poles without a word of English running around committing crimes, but you get what I mean.

Blowfish · 01-05-2007 08:48PM

rb_ie wrote:

Well tbh, I would hope that its actually needed, rather than it being a case of the Government throwing the tax payers cash down the drain.

Not that I *hope* theres a load of Poles without a word of English running around committing crimes, but you get what I mean.

Why do the gardai learn Irish then? Are there that many problematic native speakers?

The gardai are there as a service. They can help you with simpler things too, for example if you are lost, they are the ones to ask for directions.

OPENROAD · 01-05-2007 10:58PM

DonJose wrote:

There a HUGE number of illegal Chinese in Ireland, you won't find those on any census.

Don't you mean "the undocumented Chinese"

Rb · 01-05-2007 11:08PM

Blowfish wrote:

if you are lost, they are the ones to ask for directions.

ORLY?

PCros · 01-05-2007 11:08PM

If Polish people start trouble and commit crimes then the should be kicked out of the country and sent home and let their justice system take care of them, end of story instead of wasting thousands on court cases when we have enough of our own to deal with!

That goes for any nationality that are living here.

Its pathetic, if you even dared to try and commit a crime in any other country they would kick you out so fast you wouldnt know what hit you.

Again too many civil rights groups and too much political correctness is ruining this country.

SimpleSam06 · 01-05-2007 11:09PM

OPENROAD wrote:

Don't you mean "the undocumented Chinese"

Re: Asians in Ireland, it would be more useful for the Gardai to learn Tagalog or Malay, since a large percentage of the health services are made up of immigrants from south east asia. Oh no wait, they already spoke perfect English before they came to the country. This ludicrous effort by the civil service to be politically correct and welcoming to economic migrants (not immigrants, thats not what most Poles are) is just another waste of taxpayer money. Bah.

OPENROAD · 01-05-2007 11:10PM

PCros wrote:

If Polish people start trouble and commit crimes then the should be kicked out of the country and sent home and let their justice system take care of them, end of story instead of wasting thousands on court cases when we have enough of our own to deal with!

That goes for any nationality that are living here.

Its pathetic, if you even dared to try and commit a crime in any other country they would kick you out so fast you wouldnt know what hit you.

Again too many civil rights groups and too much political correctness is ruining this country.

And of course all Irish who commit crimes when abroad should also be kicked out and sent back to Ireland,don't you agree?

SimpleSam06 · 01-05-2007 11:14PM

OPENROAD wrote:

And of course all Irish who commit crimes when abroad should also be kicked out and sent back to Ireland,don't you agree?

Yes.

PCros · 01-05-2007 11:16PM

OPENROAD wrote:

And of course all Irish who commit crimes when abroad should also be kicked out and sent back to Ireland,don't you agree?

Yes and their passport taken off them. The ratio is hell of alot higher for immigrants commiting crimes here than Irish are abroad.

OPENROAD · 01-05-2007 11:20PM

PCros wrote:

Yes and their passport taken off them. The ratio is hell of alot higher for immigrants commiting crimes here than Irish are abroad.

Can you back those figures up?

nesf · 01-05-2007 11:20PM

PCros wrote:

Its pathetic, if you even dared to try and commit a crime in any other country they would kick you out so fast you wouldnt know what hit you.

Eh, what?

PCros · 01-05-2007 11:33PM

OPENROAD wrote:

Can you back those figures up?

You ever travelled?

Okay just take a look at the RTE news, breaking news website, scroll along and you will see at least three or four immigrants up for something or another.

http://www.rte.ie/news/2007/0501/driving.html
http://www.unison.ie/breakingnews/index.php3?ca=9&si=109275
http://www.unison.ie/irish_independent/stories.php3?ca=9&si=1402245&issue_id=12518

Just a few.

Go to any foreign news website and find me anything on Irish people commiting crimes

nesf · 01-05-2007 11:45PM

PCros wrote:

You ever travelled?

Okay just take a look at the RTE news, breaking news website, scroll along and you will see at least three or four immigrants up for something or another.

http://www.rte.ie/news/2007/0501/driving.html
http://www.unison.ie/breakingnews/index.php3?ca=9&si=109275
http://www.unison.ie/irish_independent/stories.php3?ca=9&si=1402245&issue_id=12518

Just a few.

Go to any foreign news website and find me anything on Irish people commiting crimes

That simply doesn't work. Firstly as a percentage of our population immigrants make up a very large part so proportionately immigrants are going to cause a large percentage of our crime assuming that they cause as many crimes per head of population as Irish people. Secondly, crimes that would never make French or German (to take an example) media coverage warrant it here because really there aren't that many crimes committed on a daily basis compared to most other countries. Thirdly, linking to news sites as a means of backing up your point is worthless. Link to official crime figures or studies if you want to give weight to your points.

Gardai learn basic Polish in their bid to serve immigrants

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