The Nurses.

ellenmelon · 09-04-2007 05:03AM

nevf wrote:

Let no-one come here and say that nurses are the criminals, they're just the victims working harsh hours and under faulty management...

amen. that pretty much sums it up. overpaid and faulty management.

Rev Hellfire · 09-04-2007 07:50AM

Well as someone who had to go through the A&E department on Saturday morning with my daughter I'll have to say I didn't notice a huge drop in the efficiency of the place. The impression that some people have of the nurses sitting around chewing the cud and doing nothing certainly wasn’t evident from where I was. The main delays we experienced where in actually was in waiting for a member of the surgical team to be freed up and able to deal with us, who was called four times. When the surgeon did arrive, the main impact of the strike was that it was he who had to go down to see if they had button rather than send a nurse.

It certainly seems like there is quite a bit of scaremongering on the part of HSE going on from what I can see.

K-9 · 09-04-2007 04:46PM

nevf wrote:

Well, if they stopped spending millions of euro on stupid budgets and emplying people through political Pull as management of the HSE, it would sort out a lot of the problems with HSE and the like.

Agreed, sort out the waste first.

nevf wrote:

Or maybe how a staff nurse with 9months nursing experience can become a Director of Nursing in a nursing home with little more qualifications of a driving licence and absoloutley no management skills what-so-ever, and beat(by 1%) a Clinical Nursing Manager with all management courses completed, and 27years experience.

Well, how a inexperienced nurse can become a Director of Nursing in a nursing home is the issue here not the wages and hours of 40,000 Nurses.

nevf wrote:

Could you imagine how much better off we would all be if they got rid of all those major glitches in the HSE, if they straightened the HSE and the hospitals out once and for all, they could easily save up to €2billion a year easily, and stop making crap decisions by un-qualified "professionals", they could easily afford to pay nurses for what the nurses deserve, and still have money to straighten out the A&E and all those other problems.

Exactly cut the €2Billion waste and the nurses demands could be financed easily.

nevf wrote:

Let no-one come here and say that nurses are the criminals, they're just the victims working harsh hours and under faulty management, and it's them bastards in Fianna Fail and the HSE that are promoting the nurses as being bad people when they flaunder money to all their political pull homies that they have scattered across the HSE in all the regions.

Bertie agrees with the 35 Hr. week. It has to implemented (which will take serious organisation) and planned first. Or would you prefer to give them the the demands from tomorrow and plunge the Health Service into more chaos.

K-9 · 09-04-2007 04:59PM

It seems from newspaper articled that a lot of Nurses don't actually work 39 Hours. They also have flexi time and family friendly times. There are far worse inequities in the Health System.

Maybe the Nurses should be moved down the waiting list:)

FlutterinBantam · 09-04-2007 05:06PM

Listen....I have the answer...We'll throw a few more million of taxpayers money into the health service,and watch in awe as it is easily absorbed into the morass of ineptitude and unionised vested interests,where the different grades excel themselves in promoting their own interests with a total disregard for the poor slob who is paying for all this----Me!!! and YOU!!!

K-9 · 09-04-2007 05:10PM

Or lets cut the wages of all the overpaid administrators etc. etc. that everybody is on about and give the money to the Nurses.

The Unions would love that.

sam34 · 09-04-2007 05:14PM

nevf and ellenmelon - since when is a 39 hr wk considered "harsh"??? most people in this country work that, if not more. granted, nurses work night shifts, which im not denying are tough, but so do loads of people in factories etc, and the junior doctors in this country work continuous day-and-night shifts eg from 9am monday through to 5pm tuesday. nurses do 12 hr or maybe 13 hr night shifts, and in most places after coming off night duty they get time off to compensate. sounds cushy not harsh to me.

FlutterinBantam · 09-04-2007 05:38PM

Seanies32 wrote:

Or lets cut the wages of all the overpaid administrators etc. etc. that everybody is on about and give the money to the Nurses.

The Unions would love that.

And watch the absenteesim rate rise off the clock as the nurses don't worry about coming in as they are paid over and above the going rate.

Judt · 09-04-2007 06:04PM

My brother is considering training for the ambulance service. He tells me that he'd rather do that than go to college because, as he worked out and was told by the people at the careers fair, you get paid far more than a nurse and practically speaking, get a lot less s**t. Oftentimes literally.

Nurses are an essential part of our workforce. Yet so few Irish people go into nursing we have to bring them in from countries far and wide. Now pray tell, why would an Irishperson in this modern economy not go into a job many have gone into previously?

Money and working conditions.

Nurses do a better and more valuable job than I do, yet I get paid double what nurses my parents age get. Odd, huh?

FlutterinBantam · 09-04-2007 06:10PM

You obviously get paid far too much.

Judt · 09-04-2007 06:13PM

FlutterinBantam wrote:

You obviously get paid far too much.

Obviously you know what I do for a living and how much money I earn for the people I work for. But I still don't save lives.

In a capitalistic society somebody is always going to earn more than you. But it's the measure of those gaps that tells us where the differences lie.

nesf · 09-04-2007 06:15PM

Judt wrote:

Nurses are an essential part of our workforce. Yet so few Irish people go into nursing we have to bring them in from countries far and wide. Now pray tell, why would an Irishperson in this modern economy not go into a job many have gone into previously?

Eh, the CAO application numbers for Nursing are, in fairness, very healthy. There are a lot of young Irish people who want to go into nursing and train in it. The issue seems to be with keeping them and the gap between graduates and nurses a few years down the line.

The flip side of it is that it very much is a vocation, and really is the kind of thing that you are either cut out for or aren't. It isn't a sector we can simply "push" people into, like we did with IT etc.

K-9 · 09-04-2007 06:18PM

sam34 wrote:

nevf and ellenmelon - since when is a 39 hr wk considered "harsh"??? most people in this country work that, if not more. granted, nurses work night shifts, which im not denying are tough, but so do loads of people in factories etc, and the junior doctors in this country work continuous day-and-night shifts eg from 9am monday through to 5pm tuesday. nurses do 12 hr or maybe 13 hr night shifts, and in most places after coming off night duty they get time off to compensate. sounds cushy not harsh to me.

They often work 4 or 3 day weeks as well, though obviuosly long shifts buts thats their choice if the want 3/4 days of a week. You'd think they where forced to work long shifts.

Some work 70/80 hours a week and then get the next week off. It's personal choice, not slave labour.

Judt wrote:

My brother is considering training for the ambulance service. He tells me that he'd rather do that than go to college because, as he worked out and was told by the people at the careers fair, you get paid far more than a nurse and practically speaking, get a lot less s**t. Oftentimes literally.

Nurses are an essential part of our workforce. Yet so few Irish people go into nursing we have to bring them in from countries far and wide. Now pray tell, why would an Irishperson in this modern economy not go into a job many have gone into previously?

Money and working conditions.

Nurses do a better and more valuable job than I do, yet I get paid double what nurses my parents age get. Odd, huh?

The ambulance is a tough job to and they have their issues over working conditions to. If they are overpaid then cut their wages and give it to the nurses.

So are you suggesting that you either half your wage or that we double nurses wages?

Judt · 09-04-2007 06:23PM

So are you suggesting that you either half your wage or that we double nurses wages?

I'm suggesting that perhaps the gap between a successful person in the professional business world and a professional nurse should be closed.

K-9 · 09-04-2007 06:44PM

Judt wrote:

I'm suggesting that perhaps the gap between a successful person in the professional business world and a professional nurse should be closed.

Then how come Public sector wages are higher than private sector.

http:///www.rte.ie/business/2005/0223/cso.html

Figures are 2 years old but no substantial change since.

Of course 43% is a generalisation and there are anomalies but overall this would show that Public sector wages are a serious problem, not private sector wages.

nesf · 09-04-2007 06:47PM

Judt wrote:

I'm suggesting that perhaps the gap between a successful person in the professional business world and a professional nurse should be closed.

You want private sector wages combined with public sector tenure? Seriously, that should never happen.

FlutterinBantam · 09-04-2007 07:01PM

nesf wrote:

You want private sector wages combined with public sector tenure? Seriously, that should never happen.

Nesf!! I'm surprised.

Doran and his ilk never ever ever mention public service tenure. NEVER

What they want is the index linked pensions, the security of tenure AND as much and more than the pvt sector.

they want their cake AND eat it

ExoduS 18.11 · 09-04-2007 07:08PM

DarkJager wrote:

Whinging about not having a 35 hour week and wanting more pay again, even though they succeeded with a similiar protest a few years back. Money grabbing bastards the lot of them, they make me absolutely sick with the whining they go on with.

Bit Harsh don't you think? Whats your occupation?

FlutterinBantam · 09-04-2007 07:11PM

His occupation has nothing got to do with it.

He is spot on in my opinion.

FlutterinBantam · 09-04-2007 07:17PM

Judt wrote:

Obviously you know what I do for a living and how much money I earn for the people I work for. But I still don't save lives.

In a capitalistic society somebody is always going to earn more than you. But it's the measure of those gaps that tells us where the differences lie.

Holy God.... Give the religious 600k pa ...they save souls.

get real sunshine.

K-9 · 09-04-2007 07:24PM

ExoduS 18.11 wrote:

Bit Harsh don't you think? Whats your occupation?

Exactly, this is nurses thread.

Anyway looking at the Business Post seems a lot of Nurses don't work 39 hours, by choice.

http://www.sbpost.ie/post/pages/p/story.aspx-qqqt=NEWS-qqqs=news-qqqid=22569-qqqx=1.asp

Seems the Unions want to have their Cake and eat it.

Reduced working week for the minority that actually work 39 Hours plus increased wages for those on flexi time/ part time/ family friendly rosters.

Those HSE slave drivers. Forcing Nurses into part time and family friendly rosters.

mikemac · 09-04-2007 07:30PM

"No, no, no Lisa. When adults don't like their jobs they don't go on strike. They just go in every day and do a half-assed job. That's the American way."

Homer Simpson:)

ucd_guy · 09-04-2007 07:35PM

From RTE News:

Liam Doran, General Secretary of the INO, said that all essential and emergency care would be maintained during the stoppages.

Breda Kavanagh, General Manager at South Tipperary Hospital in Clonmel, said she expected that the work stoppages would result in the cancellation of some surgery and out-patient appointments.

Yeah, because of all the people going around having unnecessary and unessential surgeries. Fools! What are those cancer patients thinking?

In fairness can you imagine how pissed off you'd be if a friend or relative had an operation delayed in Vincent's or Tipperary because the nurses were going out on strike on the side of the road for an hour....

Hobbes · 09-04-2007 07:37PM

is_that_so wrote:

I would have a lot of concern about any group who demands 10% and a 35 hour week.

I hate percentages. I really hate percentages.

10% isn't unreasonable if your making minimum wage in a job that requires formal training and certification. It is unreasonable if they were making 50K already.

35 Hour week is a reasonable request as well.

As it stands now Nurses do their own work, clerical work and some Doctors work as well (where approved to), yet are expected to work for crap wages?

Government was able to offset this some years ago by basically farming out the work to immigrants but even those people will take so much crap for so long.

What is interesting is the government worked the average Nurse wage at €56,000. That is an average, considering most nurses are poorly paid I'd very much like to see the spread of the wages.

But the one thing to realise in this is that most of the time demands are not what they actually want. Anyone who goes into a negotiation with a fixed demand is not going to get anything. Better to ask for more then you want and you can compromise later.

ExoduS 18.11 · 09-04-2007 07:39PM

FlutterinBantam wrote:

His occupation has nothing got to do with it.

He is spot on in my opinion.

Your of the opinion that nurses are Money Grabbing Bastards..? Glad to see the discussion has turned into derogatory bull**** in record time. My mother has been working as a nurse for 35 years, and let me tell you, she has done far more hours than 35 a week. At the moment she is doing only what she is paid to do. For example she is a Psychiatric nurse, so she doesnt answer the phones or do the office work that a secretary should be employed to do. She is regularily switched from hostel to hospital (which she has been threatened with knifes needles and what not 4 times during a ten year period) due to lack of security in these places. So frankly i can imagine why she is a tiny bit pissed off at the moment. And FlutterinBantam look at me i can put irrelevant words in bold too

PeakOutput · 09-04-2007 07:43PM

Hobbes wrote:

I hate percentages. I really hate percentages.

10% isn't unreasonable if your making minimum wage in a job that requires formal training and certification. It is unreasonable if they were making 50K already.

35 Hour week is a reasonable request as well.

.

when you count the reduction in working hours it is alot more than a 10% increase its closer to 25% on their hourly wage. couple this with the drop in service the average punter will be getting for their money and it quickly turns into an unreasonable request at this time

K-9 · 09-04-2007 07:51PM

Hobbes wrote:

10% isn't unreasonable if your making minimum wage in a job that requires formal training and certification. It is unreasonable if they were making 50K already.

What, Nurses are on the average industrial wage not the minimum wage.

Hobbes wrote:

35 Hour week is a reasonable request as well.

Yeah, the majority don't work 39 hour weeks.

K-9 · 09-04-2007 07:56PM

ExoduS 18.11 wrote:

My mother has been working as a nurse for 35 years, and let me tell you, she has done far more hours than 35 a week. At the moment she is doing only what she is paid to do. For example she is a Psychiatric nurse, so she doesnt answer the phones or do the office work that a secretary should be employed to do. She is regularily switched from hostel to hospital (which she has been threatened with knifes needles and what not 4 times during a ten year period) due to lack of security in these places. So frankly i can imagine why she is a tiny bit pissed off at the moment. And FlutterinBantam look at me i can put irrelevant words in bold too

Actually, I think the PNA have done their members a disservice by going with the INO on the demands.

Pschy. Nursing is a dangerous job but I think they are paid more than General Nurses to compensate. But off course, there is the argument that if you didn't realise working in the Pschy. sector wasn't going to be dangerous well then you shouldn't really be there.

Also, I'm sure she got paid extra for doing more than 35 hours.

Also, I've heard Pschy. nurses laughing about going on training days to hotels and getting paid for them. Free lunches as well.

Judt · 09-04-2007 08:08PM

ucd_guy wrote:

From RTE News:

Yeah, because of all the people going around having unnecessary and unessential surgeries. Fools! What are those cancer patients thinking?

In fairness can you imagine how pissed off you'd be if a friend or relative had an operation delayed in Vincent's or Tipperary because the nurses were going out on strike on the side of the road for an hour....

How would you suggest nurses put their point across when other means fail, pray tell?

K-9 · 09-04-2007 08:12PM

Judt wrote:

How would you suggest nurses put their point across when other means fail, pray tell?

In fairness, other means have failed in their opinion.

Pay agreements, benchmarking etc. that other unions have signed up to.

The Nurses.

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