Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie
Hi there,
There is an issue with role permissions that is being worked on at the moment.
If you are having trouble with access or permissions on regional forums please post here to get access: https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058365403/you-do-not-have-permission-for-that#latest

Dublin Bus and Google Maps Project

  • 06-04-2007 10:16pm
    #1
    irlrobins
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,541 ✭✭✭


    Hey all,

    I'm a daily user of Dublin Bus but I usually only take the same three bus routes into and out of town. So while I know those routes backwards, when it comes to going to any location I'm not sure what bus to take.

    The Dublin Bus website isn't great at giving the exact route of the bus. It might say the bus goes to A then B and then C but doesn't say how exactly it gets from A to B. So I'm not sure what stop to get off in order to bring me closest to my destination.

    But now that Google Maps have launched their My Map service, this could change. I think it's possible to use this service to map out every Dublin Bus route and stops.

    Now obviously due to my limited knowledge of other routes, I wouldn't be able to do this alone. So why not make it a (boards) community project?

    Each person could contribute their route knowledge until all routes are covered. It would be possible for one person to do one half of a route and someone else continue it. So even if you didn't know the complete route you could contribute.

    Obviously some project management would be required.

    One login would have to be shared so there would have to be some level of trust that someone doesn't log in and feck it all up. So perhaps we would only issue the login to people that have been referred and vouched for.

    We would also have to draw up a list of all routes and then assign them to individuals.

    We would have to ensure that a colour scheme is used so that bus routes can be differentiated if they travel along the same roads.

    But at the end of it, we should have a map of the Dublin Bus route that could be shared globally so that locals and tourists a like could make use of it.

    And I'm sure other features could be added to the map. Photos and video can be linked so maybe tourist attractions and the like could be marked.

    Anyway, as I said, it's a big project for just once person, so do people think that this is something that could/should be done?

    I'm opening it up for discussion and ideas, be interesting to see if there is much interest in this.

    R


«1

Comments

  • #2
    Nothingcompares
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,923 ✭✭✭Nothingcompares


    excellent idea.


  • #3
    Tom Dunne
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,212 ✭✭✭✭Tom Dunne


    I think it sounds like an excellent idea. While I don't use Dublin Bus myself, I am a regular user of the trains, so maybe I could contribute something from that angle.

    I also think we could get some guidance from the chaps over on the commuting/transport forum. They are a very knowledgeable bunch and seem to have some great resources. Maybe a sub-forum either here or over there maybe?


  • #4
    irlrobins
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,541 ✭✭✭irlrobins


    Yea I was thinking of asking to get a forum for this project if it takes off. Two sub forums, one for development talk between developers and a second for users to give feedback, report bugs etc.

    But I'll wait and see what response is. I might link to this post in both Dublin and Commuting forums.


  • #5
    smcelhinney
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,127 ✭✭✭smcelhinney


    Cool, count me in. I'd know a fair bit of the naaaaarthsoide..


  • #6
    Tom Dunne
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,212 ✭✭✭✭Tom Dunne


    irlrobins wrote:
    But I'll wait and see what response is. I might link to this post in both Dublin and Community forums.

    Don't forget the commuting/transport forum. :)


  • Advertisement
  • #7
    Blackjack
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,626 ✭✭✭Blackjack


    Fantastic Idea.
    I don't presently live in Dublin but will probably be back at some stage in the coming months.
    Willing to help out with the testing etc if needed, as I won't have a clue of the routes.


  • #8
    Blowfish
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,112 ✭✭✭Blowfish


    Great idea, it's actually something I had been trying to find already. I'll give a hand where I can, although I don't use that many different buses.
    tom dunne wrote:
    I think it sounds like an excellent idea. While I don't use Dublin Bus myself, I am a regular user of the trains, so maybe I could contribute something from that angle.
    That aspect has been done already here.

    I think I read somewhere that the buses now have a gps on each, it would be great if we were able to convince Dublin Bus to let us use that for tracking them.

    [edit]
    It looks like they are thinking of doing the real time stuff themselves, there are plans here saying that they have put gps on some buses but not on all of them yet. Their timescale is insane though, they plan on having it finished by 2011, despite starting it in 2001.


  • #9
    Tom Dunne
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,212 ✭✭✭✭Tom Dunne


    Blowfish wrote:
    That aspect has been done already here.

    I don't see any trains there, only those pesky Darts. :)

    I'm talking about non-Dart trains.


  • #10
    edanto
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,809 ✭✭✭edanto


    Smashing plan! I'd be able to help plot a couple of routes.

    Over in Valencia, they have a really snazzy way of showing you which bus goes where, with a flash route/map overlay. In case you want to have a look at it to see how they've done it - it's at http://www.emtvalencia.es/b1024.htm
    From the left, click Menu, then planos.... then 'General'.
    Once the map loads up, you'll see that you just have to tick the boxes by the route number to toggle display of the stops or the route.
    It's well handy! Only had to use it a couple of times but it saved a bit of hassle.

    It's missing a handy search feature though - there's no way to put in the name of a street or a district and find the bus routes that go close by. That'd be a suggestion to try and include in this project.


  • #11
    markpb
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,371 ✭✭✭markpb


    I think it's a great idea! I started doing something like this a few months ago but I didn't have enough time to do much on it so only some routes are there, mostly northside ones and they're not all correct.

    It's here if you want to look: http://www.redbrick.dcu.ie/~markpb/dta/traffic/transport.php I think it only works on firefox for the moment.


  • Advertisement
  • #12
    Blowfish
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,112 ✭✭✭Blowfish


    markpb wrote:
    I think it's a great idea! I started doing something like this a few months ago but I didn't have enough time to do much on it so only some routes are there, mostly northside ones and they're not all correct.

    It's here if you want to look: http://www.redbrick.dcu.ie/~markpb/dta/traffic/transport.php I think it only works on firefox for the moment.
    Thats a pretty good start, all you would need is for a few people to do the same thing and you'll have most of it done.


  • #13
    mathew
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,488 ✭✭✭mathew


    brilliant idea!!
    Dont exactly know how to use google maps in that way but I'd be happy to learn and contribute what I know of my local bus routes!!!


  • #14
    irlrobins
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,541 ✭✭✭irlrobins


    I get a message saying the key is for another site. :(


  • #15
    Blowfish
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,112 ✭✭✭Blowfish


    mathew wrote:
    brilliant idea!!
    Dont exactly know how to use google maps in that way but I'd be happy to learn and contribute what I know of my local bus routes!!!
    Theres a guide here explaining how to do it.
    irlrobins wrote:
    I get a message saying the key is for another site. :(
    Strange, i'm getting that now too, it was fine earlier.


  • #16
    lostexpectation
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,082 ✭✭✭lostexpectation


    yeah nobody will ever do it by themselves

    here platform 11 people discuss it, http://forum.platform11.org/showthread.php?t=1669&page=2 Ive been doing a bit on googlemaps recently done 31 49 17a 25a and I tried to do it quite accurately


    somebody on platform 11 uploaded a huge map of all the bus routes, (its a bit old ) but you see every road and im sure we can figure out the changes, like terminus and then you only need to do one of each route really and then minor changes

    http://www.lexferenda.com/map/webpage/dublinbus.html


    see now markpb if you'd share the files on google bbs then people would see them add to them and not duplicate the work!

    it called open source!

    anyway its is impossible to know exactly which road the route goes, why do the only have it in irsh too, now I know i suppose to be Irish but even for me it confuses, think about tourists.

    we do have google maps board


  • #17
    markpb
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,371 ✭✭✭markpb


    Boards seems to be scrambling the ~ in the link which might be causing the errors. If it doesn't work, try going to http://url.ie/3jd instead. The data for the routes themselves are at http://url.ie/3je. It's just an XML file with some waypoints but it should probably be converted to an encoded string to keep the filesize down.

    I had a piece of code on the site that let me click and record each of the waypoints in turn - I could put that in if people wanted to mark out their own bus routes or correct the ones that I have wrong (13/13A definitely and the 4 through the city centre).

    The map that the P11 member scanned is known to be wrong in several cases, I wouldn't rely on it to be honest, better of doing routes you know from experience.

    Edit: Just saw the 'My Maps' feature now, I'll have a look at moving my routes onto it if I can. I'm on dial-up this weekend so it might take a few millenia ;)


  • #18
    daymobrew
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,548 ✭✭✭daymobrew


    lostexpectation wrote:
    anyway its is impossible to know exactly which road the route goes, why do the only have it in irsh too, now I know i suppose to be Irish but even for me it confuses thing think about tourists.
    If you look at the STAGE information at the bottom of the route page it will give you a decent idea of the roads used, though it's no substitute for local knowledge.

    I wonder could we create routes in Gmaps Pedometer (very easy there) and export the data to a form that could be imported into this project. That could work around the login/trust issues. Others would review the saved Gmaps Pedometer route before it's imported into this project.

    The EMT Valencia maps are excellent. I really like the way it tells you what routes use the street your mouse hovers over. That would be excellent for planning connecting routes.

    I'm on for helping out. I can contribute a few routes from Dublin 15. I'd promote the project on my BusSched.


  • #19
    antoinolachtnai
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,815 ✭✭✭antoinolachtnai


    DTO have a database of the coordinates of all the bus stops, I believe. We could get a copy of that to use as a basis.


  • #20
    lostexpectation
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,082 ✭✭✭lostexpectation


    its a wonder dto haven't already done it, there quite quite a few nifty things on their site... looks... ah no they just link to this
    http://www.dublinbus.ie/your_journey/search_by_map.asp

    em bus stops yeah, better make the icons small though

    you seem to be able to save kmls from my maps (and then load em into google earth but not the other way around... :/

    heres the full list http://www.dublinbus.ie/your_journey/full_list_of_timetables.asp

    pick one and say before you try and do it

    we can say
    20
    746
    3
    4
    13
    11
    16
    103
    16
    17
    27
    45
    25
    31
    49
    are drafted already...

    and you could use them as basis for other routes too.


  • #21
    mathew
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,488 ✭✭✭mathew


    Blowfish wrote:
    Theres a guide here explaining how to do it.

    Ah, i see. Nice and simple really. Hadn't been on Google Maps in a while so I hadn't noticed the new features!
    Theyre very handy tho!!


  • Advertisement
  • #22
    markpb
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,371 ✭✭✭markpb


    Before we go doing any work, we definitely need to decide how to map the data. From what people have said we have:

    - Google My Maps and export each route as a KML

    - Gmaps Pedometer and export each route as GPX

    - Use Google Maps and xml files containing the lng/lat co-ordinates of each route.

    I don't know much about either but my understanding is that KML files are used to overlay on Google Earth. I'd imagine an overlay onto map rather than satellite would be more useful for most people. I've never heard of GPX before. Any thoughts?

    Edit: Using GMaps Pedometer and exporting GPX files for each route would seem to be the easiest way to do it. I could convert my existing site to use GPX files instead of my own XML files which would get us up and running in no-time.


  • #23
    stereo_steve
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,227 ✭✭✭stereo_steve


    Google maps gets my vote! All the new high end phones coming out support google maps ( Neo 1973, iPhone etc) and it would be extremely handy to have this information stored on a phone.


  • #24
    irlrobins
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,541 ✭✭✭irlrobins


    markpb wrote:
    Before we go doing any work, we definitely need to decide how to map the data. From what people have said we have:

    - Google My Maps and export each route as a KML

    - Gmaps Pedometer and export each route as GPX

    - Use Google Maps and xml files containing the lng/lat co-ordinates of each route.
    Why the exporting?


  • #25
    markpb
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,371 ✭✭✭markpb


    irlrobins wrote:
    Why the exporting?

    I don't see any other (realistic) way of doing it. If we just created a Google My Maps account, there's no way to turn on/off particular routes. Apart from taking ages to render, imagine how hard it for users. How many routes use O'Connell St. or College Green? Also having our own site allows us to add functionality later on.


  • #26
    irlrobins
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,541 ✭✭✭irlrobins


    So what you're suggesting is not to use google maps at all?


  • #27
    snappieT
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,357 ✭✭✭snappieT


    I'm definately up for this.
    I'm good for the:
    123
    124
    20B
    27
    27B
    42
    42A
    42B
    127
    and I'm sure there's some i'm forgetting.


  • #28
    spurious
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Education Moderators Posts: 27,290 CMod ✭✭✭✭spurious


    The Ordnance survey street guide to Dublin has the routes all marked out in it, though not the location of stops.


  • #29
    markpb
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,371 ✭✭✭markpb


    irlrobins wrote:
    So what you're suggesting is not to use google maps at all?

    Definitely do use Google Maps but I'd suggest, instead of using the My Maps feature, building a website with the Google Maps API, like the one I linked to earlier. If you do that, you need to agree a format for people to store the routes in.

    Like daymobrew said, if people use Gmaps Pedometer to create GPX files, it's easy for someone to upload the files to the site and add them in.


  • #30
    irlrobins
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,541 ✭✭✭irlrobins


    With My Maps, adding a route is as simple as clicking along the required path to create the polyline. I'm not sure if the API offers the same functionality.

    If we could use My Maps to plot the route, extract the data and then import into API or other than that would be handy.

    Will the KML file be suitable?


  • Advertisement
  • #31
    BopNiblets
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,579 ✭✭✭BopNiblets


    According to Google maps, Celbridge doesn't have any roads, so I think Microsofts Live Maps is better, that has roads even outside the greater dublin area.
    Unfortunately I don't think there's the equivalent of MyMaps on it. :(


  • #32
    Dord
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,817 ✭✭✭✭Dord


    this sounds like a great project!
    i'd be willing to help out. i could map the routes for 42A, 42B & 29A. :)

    i think gmaps pedometer is a bit easier to use anyways, so i'll use that to map them.


  • #33
    markpb
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,371 ✭✭✭markpb


    irlrobins wrote:
    With My Maps, adding a route is as simple as clicking along the required path to create the polyline. I'm not sure if the API offers the same functionality.

    Sorry, crossed wires :) I only meant using the API to display the data, not map it.
    If we could use My Maps to plot the route, extract the data and then import into API or other than that would be handy. Will the KML file be suitable?

    It appears they're both just XML files so either should be fine. Personally I find Gmaps easier to use but I don't have a preference. We could probably transform between the two of them if we wanted to anyway.


  • #34
    irlrobins
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,541 ✭✭✭irlrobins


    Well let's formulate/document the exact process of how and what each person needs to do. (You can tell I'm Management Consultant ;))

    No point in charging down a path and find problems further along.


  • #35
    markpb
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,371 ✭✭✭markpb


    irlrobins wrote:
    Well let's formulate/document the exact process of how and what each person needs to do. (You can tell I'm Management Consultant ;))

    If we can agree on a file format, I can adapt the existing site to read that file so we can test it. It shouldn't take long to do that when I get back to a proper net connection ;) I can also try to convert my existing routes (or at least the ones I'm sure are right). Any objections?

    After that I guess if each person maps out the routes of their local buses, we can put them on a site somewhere and have other people check them to make sure they're okay?

    I'd suggest leaving the locations of bus stops for the moment, they should be easy enough to add in later. At least I think they should.


  • #36
    irlrobins
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,541 ✭✭✭irlrobins


    Yes, I think the bus stops can be added at a later stage.

    Format of data file is not important as long as a) it can be read by your site and b) everyone and anyone is able to produce such a data file easily.

    So what's the best way of doing that? My Maps exported as KML or Gmap Pedometer?

    Just counted the number of routes in total: 200+ :eek:


  • Advertisement
  • #37
    markpb
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,371 ✭✭✭markpb


    irlrobins wrote:
    So what's the best way of doing that? My Maps exported as KML or Gmap Pedometer?

    I think this one comes down to personal preference. Shout now or forever hold your peace ;)
    Just counted the number of routes in total: 200+ :eek:

    That's without worrying about crazy routes like the 27B or 18 which run different routes and different start/end points at different times of the day *rolls eyes*


  • #38
    irlrobins
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,541 ✭✭✭irlrobins


    My Maps looks slightly easier in terms of exporting. Anyone else got a preference?


  • #39
    markpb
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,371 ✭✭✭markpb


    There is a third alternative, encoded polylines which are much smaller to store and transmit than a series of lat/lng co-ordinates. For example, instead of a 4.5k KML file or 8.6k GPX file, the entire 27B route can be stored in polylines as:
    gf`eIbfie@`EsjAmLw_@jFcrApA{w@nJjDzXwB|XkDje@p]dZcWmDknA\mLhOtH}@pNh@pNjFzD_@lE}GeBzAkKSqN\oMbDr@`M}SSxQnKa@
    {I`@KgQsFuArGci@`U{@rGr@NeEYsHfAcLtUo_@rDrKrLbSdMn\xKvTrTzV??`VjWnNxNjInBvArVpEvQvLlP~Wz]hK`OhOhRdCtAjF|q@

    There is a simple Google utility (http://www.google.com/apis/maps/documentation/polylineutility.html) to let you mark points on a map. It's not quite as flashy as My Maps but it's easy enough to use. Single clink on a point, click the 'Add Point' button, rinse, repeat, etc and then copy and paste the text from the two text boxes below the map.


  • #40
    lostexpectation
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,082 ✭✭✭lostexpectation


    I think main reason this would be possible to do now is because of mymaps, it was possible before but too much work for one person to do. now you don't have to pay to draw paths etc. (and not everyone has gps ped thingy or programming know how).

    I think markpb is suggesting that the only way to get all the routes together would be for each person who's done a route or two to export the kml and then (somebody with the pro license) in goolgeearth program can put them all together in one map that could be shared, for a complete googleearth and googlemap version and be available for search in mymaps search.

    or are you suggesting if people are searching for routes it would be easier to do them and find them all separately?


    it is annoying that you can't import into mymaps, I asked about on the help forum, no reply yet. (there seems to be alot of things mymaps can't do),http://groups.google.com/group/Google-Maps-How-Do-I/browse_thread/thread/fa4867acf1218405


    I think snappieT et al should only offer to do one route at a time, and finish it/post it here before starting on the next.

    you could try to break things up again as I said by just doing one (main ) version of each route how many would that make it irlrobins?

    I tried this http://intl.local.live.com/results.aspx?what=hotel&where=Dublin%2C+Dublin%2C+Ireland

    I read that you could already do this on mircrosoft, but I look here and there^ http://mappoint.msn.com/

    ??

    ah you have to sign up,Ill have to figure it out, well like you have to do with google (althought you don' t need an invite).

    does anybody use this microsoft mapping to create maps?

    anyway mymaps as google said a monkey could use it thats the point.


  • #41
    irlrobins
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,541 ✭✭✭irlrobins


    markpb wrote:
    There is a third alternative

    Too fiddly and it's not as easy to use as My Maps. I wouldn't consider it a runner.


  • Advertisement
  • #42
    irlrobins
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,541 ✭✭✭irlrobins


    lostexpectation wrote:
    I think snappieT et al should only offer to do one route at a time, and finish it/post it here before starting on the next.
    Yea, one route at a time is prob the way to go. Plot route X, export the KML file, email to whoever to populate the database and if all ok then move to route Y. Keeps the data files simple.


  • #43
    markpb
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,371 ✭✭✭markpb


    lostexpectation wrote:
    I think markpb is suggesting that the only way to get all the routes together would be for each person who's done a route or two to export the kml and then (somebody with the pro license) in goolgeearth program can put them all together in one map that could be shared, for a complete googleearth and googlemap version and be available for search in mymaps search.

    That's pretty much it. Once everyone has submitted their routes (in whatever format we agree on), we can combine that data in some useable format such as a Google Maps driven website, or humungus KML file for Google Earth users.

    As far as I know, there's no way to import route data into My Maps so I think it's probably not much use after the fact.
    I think snappieT et al should only offer to do one route at a time, and finish it/post it here before starting on the next.

    I wouldn't object to people taking a few routes but probably not more than 5 or 6 each so we don't block each other if there are lots of enthusiastic helpers.


  • #44
    lostexpectation
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,082 ✭✭✭lostexpectation


    http://maps.google.com/help/maps/userguide/index.html#results

    I don't get how to use this I created a couple of things made me public gave em specific names but when search maps for them they don't come up, ony things that have been there for a while do.
    However, when you post a Placemark on the Google Earth Community Forums, it will not automatically appear in everyone's Google Earth 3D Viewer. Your Placemark, along with other new or edited Placemarks, must be added to the Google Earth database in a separate process; this is done approximately every 4 to 8 weeks.

    is this the same for mymaps ?
    irlrobin- One login would have to be shared

    see I still havn't figured out if this is necessary.... actually if it is the case that things won't be searchable for a couple of months then one account would make sense, so people can see eachothers work in mymaps.

    could you post this thread to communting irlrobin, perhaps make a sticky?


  • #45
    irlrobins
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,541 ✭✭✭irlrobins


    46A From Dun Laoghaire


  • #46
    lostexpectation
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,082 ✭✭✭lostexpectation


    irlrobins wrote:
    46A From Dun Laoghaire

    cool and the mymap link ?


  • #47
    irlrobins
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,541 ✭✭✭irlrobins


    There isn't one (yet).

    I think markpb will plot that route on his map.


  • #48
    markpb
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,371 ✭✭✭markpb


    irlrobins wrote:
    I think markpb will plot that route on his map.

    Apologies, I started doing this last night but there's a small bug in it so it doesn't work just yet. Annoyingly I can't get SSH access from my new job but I'll update it tonight.

    Also, it turns out the Google Maps API supports KML files natively so it was a doddle to implement. Good choice there irlrobins ;)


  • #49
    lostexpectation
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,082 ✭✭✭lostexpectation


    irlrobins wrote:
    There isn't one (yet).

    I think markpb will plot that route on his map.


    then how did you make it?


  • #50
    irlrobins
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,541 ✭✭✭irlrobins


    I did it in Google MyMaps, but not as a public map.


  • #51
    lostexpectation
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,082 ✭✭✭lostexpectation


    irlrobins wrote:
    I did it in Google MyMaps, but not as a public map.

    why not and why not put up the link? or do this? so everyone can see it use it...

    http://bbs.keyhole.com/ubb/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/868062/an/0/page/0#868062

    mymaps has turned out to be confusing and google arn't answering request for support at all?
    http://groups.google.com/group/Google-Maps-How-Do-I/topics


  • Advertisement
Advertisement