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New Station Names (was part of Docklands Station opening)

  • 20-03-2007 5:44pm
    #1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,972 ✭✭✭✭


    MarkoP11 wrote:
    River Rd is actually the correct name of Phoenix Park

    Is there not a better name to identify the station with its locality? I wouldn't know the area, but River Road certainly doesn't spring anywhere to mind.

    Anyway the station seemed to be progresing fairly well when I went through it today.

    Is there a general election on the way? ;)


Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,677 ✭✭✭Pineapple stu


    Its ment to be called the phoenix park racecourse station due to its location but i dont think they will put all that on the signs.It might be the developer of the apartments across the road that might give it its final name, considering he's paying for it.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 78,537 ✭✭✭✭Victor


    MarkoP11 wrote:
    River Rd is actually the correct name of Phoenix Park and the much talked about Grange Rd is either Baldoyle (already on the computer PA) or Clongriffen
    The problem with "Grange Road" is that people would actually go to Grange Road looking for it. It would be logical and there is possibly enough demand potential to have one there anyway.
    Zebra3 wrote:
    Is there not a better name to identify the station with its locality? I wouldn't know the area, but River Road certainly doesn't spring anywhere to mind.
    Well I imagine locals will know where River Road is.

    Dunsink or Elmgreen are just as vague as River Road. Calling it Navan Road would be a misnomer. Calling it Phoenix Park Racecourse would be indicating a racecourse that no longer exists.

    This is the section we are talking about http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&q=dublin&layer=&ie=UTF8&z=14&ll=53.377159,-6.347008&spn=0.023911,0.086002&om=1 Ashtown Station is at Ashtown Road and Castleknock (formerly Blanchardstown Castleknock) is at Castleknock Road


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,677 ✭✭✭Pineapple stu


    The name of the apartments that the station will serve is The phoenix park racecourse, there will be a footbridge linking them to the station, hence the name.
    Its not accesible from river road, only the navan road or said houses.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,972 ✭✭✭✭Zebra3


    Victor wrote:
    Well I imagine locals will know where River Road is.

    Yeah, but what about people who want to go the area and the "River Road" means nothing to them.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,281 ✭✭✭mackerski


    Zebra3 wrote:
    Yeah, but what about people who want to go the area and the "River Road" means nothing to them.

    "Phoenix Park" isn't all that useful as a station name, though. Most people know what it is but will they guess where it is?


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,677 ✭✭✭Pineapple stu


    So what do people think it should be called? You can call it what you want cos the people its being built for knows where it is.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 78,537 ✭✭✭✭Victor


    And what of the unfortunates who think it will take them to the zoo?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,133 ✭✭✭Slice


    cymro: So what do people think it should be called? You can call it what you want cos the people its being built for knows where it is.

    As Cowper and many other stops on the Luas demonstrate; station names aren't really that important in the grand scheme of things - especially when the area they serve is ambiguous by name. I wouldn't say naming affects patronage that much. Even though Stillorgan Luas stop is probably one of the most questionably named stops how many people get the Luas to Stillorgan instead of the 46A thinking they go to the same place?

    Regarding Heuston's platform 10; do IE operate a shuttle service from the main station to this platform? It seems very far away.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,761 ✭✭✭✭Winters


    The is a very interesting discussion. Station naming is very important to relate to the area and community that a transport stop would serve.

    Grange Road was originally going to be the location of the 'Grange Road' stop until the actual station location was moved further north to be integrated into the north/south fringe development. Baldoyle is now the name on the hoardings there.

    Phoenix Park seems very ambiguous seeing as it is not the nearest station to the park but like a poster noted, it couldn't really be called Phoenix Park Racecourse could it? The original River Road station from PFC was located at River Road so that would seem to be defunct now as a station name.

    My major gripe would still be with the station name of High Street. Christchurch would be a lot more distinctive and less 'British' dare I say it. More people know where Christchurch is than High Street.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,457 ✭✭✭dmeehan


    Winters wrote:
    My major gripe would still be with the station name of High Street. Christchurch would be a lot more distinctive and less 'British' dare I say it. More people know where Christchurch is than High Street.
    yes, Christchurch is a much better name


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 629 ✭✭✭enterprise


    Slice wrote:
    Regarding Heuston's platform 10; do IE operate a shuttle service from the main station to this platform? It seems very far away.

    Platform 10's main purpose was to maintain the full timetabled service during the rebuilding of Heuston. Since the 3 extra platforms opened (6, 7 & 8) no services are scheduled to use this platform.

    To answer the question IE & DB did provide a shuttle service to platform 10. A mixture of dedicated shuttles and the extension of the 91 to Platform 10.

    Enterprise.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,972 ✭✭✭✭Zebra3


    Winters wrote:
    My major gripe would still be with the station name of High Street. Christchurch would be a lot more distinctive and less 'British' dare I say it. More people know where Christchurch is than High Street.

    Also, a lot of visitors to the city might assume that getting off at "High Street" was leaving them in O'Connell Street.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 78,537 ✭✭✭✭Victor


    Zebra3 wrote:
    Also, a lot of visitors to the city might assume that getting off at "High Street" was leaving them in O'Connell Street.
    Yeah, "Airside" Metro is no longer "Airside".
    KC61 wrote:
    Just to prove that the 91 is alive and well and still operating..... http://p201.ezboard.com/fbustravelirelandfrm30.showMessage?topicID=22.topic
    It that one too many buses? ;)


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,281 ✭✭✭mackerski


    Winters wrote:
    My major gripe would still be with the station name of High Street. Christchurch would be a lot more distinctive and less 'British' dare I say it. More people know where Christchurch is than High Street.

    So a combo of two English words that precisely describe the cathedral will be less British than a different two English words that precisely describe the street? Good to know.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,761 ✭✭✭✭Winters


    mackerski wrote:
    So a combo of two English words that precisely describe the cathedral will be less British than a different two English words that precisely describe the street? Good to know.

    Most 'High Streets' in Britain are the main shopping thoroughfares. Our High Street isnt. If fact it is a short street sandwiched between Christchurch Place and Cornmarket. Also the area is more commonly known as Christchurch. The Liberties could also be an option but isnt actually where the station is going. Everyone knows where Christchurch is.


  • Registered Users Posts: 245 ✭✭Enigma365


    My major gripe would still be with the station name of High Street. Christchurch would be a lot more distinctive and less 'British' dare I say it. More people know where Christchurch is than High Street.

    What service are you referring to? Only train/tram service that I can think of that is going through the Christchurch area is the interconnector, and I thought they decided not to have a stop between Heuston and Stephens Green(a poor decision, imo).


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,331 ✭✭✭MarkoP11


    Always been a stop between Stephen's Green and Heuston, was previously refered to as digital hub


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,761 ✭✭✭✭Winters


    In fact, even before that, originally there were two stops, 'St. Patricks' and 'Watling Street'. Now its down to one underneath High Street.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,133 ✭✭✭Slice


    High Street is the name of the street and not the name of the type of street it is (in British terminology) - it would be just as appropriate as Christchurch. Besides; if it were really such a remnant of the Empire then its name would have been changed along with a whole load of other streets and areas such as O'Connell Street or Dun Laoghaire at the turn of independence. I sense an ultra-nationalist in our midst.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,581 ✭✭✭dodgyme


    there is a st called high st up in christchurch


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,677 ✭✭✭Pineapple stu


    Victor wrote:
    And what of the unfortunates who think it will take them to the zoo?

    You check first dont you? if not then they have a nice walk through the park.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,677 ✭✭✭Pineapple stu


    Slice wrote:
    As Cowper and many other stops on the Luas demonstrate; station names aren't really that important in the grand scheme of things - especially when the area they serve is ambiguous by name. I wouldn't say naming affects patronage that much. Even though Stillorgan Luas stop is probably one of the most questionably named stops how many people get the Luas to Stillorgan instead of the 46A thinking they go to the same place?

    Regarding Heuston's platform 10; do IE operate a shuttle service from the main station to this platform? It seems very far away.

    Platform 10 was only built as a temporary one while heuston station was being re-developed. If it needs to be used again then the buses stop there.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,972 ✭✭✭✭Zebra3


    Slice wrote:
    High Street is the name of the street and not the name of the type of street it is (in British terminology) - it would be just as appropriate as Christchurch.

    I know exactly where High St is but it would not be as an appropriate name as Christchurch. I reckon very few people would know where High St actually is compared witht those who'd know where Christchurch is.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,581 ✭✭✭dodgyme


    Zebra3 wrote:
    I know exactly where High St is but it would not be as an appropriate name as Christchurch. I reckon very few people would know where High St actually is compared witht those who'd know where Christchurch is.
    Yes you are right, I only knew that bit of trivia because I used to live in christchurch, bit you are right.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 78,537 ✭✭✭✭Victor


    Um, do the have a site decided yet? Are we being premature?
    dodgyme wrote:
    there is a st called high st up in christchurch
    The one and the same.

    When the route for Luas B was announced, the Hilton Hotel went bananas about the line at Charlemont going over their car park access (I imagine it was a planning condition when the hotel was built). Talking to Frank Allen, they changed their tone after and wanted the stop called "Hilton".


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 311 ✭✭Skyhater


    Calm down everybody!!!!

    The Stop will (probably) be located at high street. Nobody has made a decision yet as to what the stop will be called!!!!
    Normally early in the planning stages of metro's etc., working titles are used for proposed stops. Actual operational names are decided at at a later stage, and we'll all get our opportunity to contribute during the public consultation process.

    The danger here is that the working title (High St) will become the operational station name without IE bothering to change it..... Therefore, consultation process is important!!!

    My preferred names (in order of preference) for the High St stop is as follows:

    1) Christchurch
    2) Cathedrals (Christchurch and St. Patricks)
    3) Cornmarket
    4) Liberties
    5) Dublinia (referring to the historical importance of the area)
    6) High Street

    Stop names should be as intuitive as possible for the regular commuter, and visitors!!!!

    The Phoenix Park stop shouldn't be called "Phoenix Park"....Far too confusing for visitors!!! "Old Racecourse" would be my first preference.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,331 ✭✭✭MarkoP11


    Of course let us not forget the geniuses in the RPA called Tallaght Hospital just Hospital and want to call Leopardstown Racecourse just Racecourse

    There is a fairly obvious site for the station if you go up and have a look and Christchurch makes the most sense on grounds of accuracy its also unique


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,281 ✭✭✭mackerski


    Skyhater wrote:
    "Old Racecourse" would be my first preference.

    I can't think of a crappier name. Why would you name a stop after what used to be there? How is that useful to people who can't remember the racecourse (it hasn't been one for at least 10 years, so between blow-ins and people under 25 you're really setting things up for confusion). You might just as sensibly have city-centre metro or interconnector stations called "Hoggen Green" or "Thingmount".

    This is the same logic that leads the AA to refer to as "Scott's Rondabout" the structure actually signed as "Blanchardstown Roundabout" simply because the now cul-de-sac nearby used to be the main road and has a restaurant on it that used to be called Scott's.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 311 ✭✭Skyhater


    mackerski wrote:
    I can't think of a crappier name.

    Well Give me a better one...... Positive Criticism is always welcome!!!

    The new station is serving a development called "Phoenix Park Racecourse"....... and i definitely think "Phoenix Park" is a misleading name!!!
    Other ideas could be,
    "Dunsink Observatory", "Castleknock East", or "Ashtown West"????


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,074 ✭✭✭BendiBus


    MarkoP11 wrote:
    Of course let us not forget the geniuses in the RPA called Tallaght Hospital just Hospital and want to call Leopardstown Racecourse just Racecourse

    Then they'll probaby just call this one Church.

    Cathedral has a nice ring to it. (NOT intentionally a pun on the bells :D )


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,031 ✭✭✭✭murphaph


    all stops/stations should be named after the principal street they exit to. that way, any a-z will allow the foreigner to find the place on a map.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,281 ✭✭✭mackerski


    Skyhater wrote:
    The new station is serving a development called "Phoenix Park Racecourse"....... and i definitely think "Phoenix Park" is a misleading name!!!
    Other ideas could be,
    "Dunsink Observatory", "Castleknock East", or "Ashtown West"????

    Or perhaps "Phoenix Park Racecourse", if that's the name of the only community it serves.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 311 ✭✭Skyhater


    mackerski wrote:
    Or perhaps "Phoenix Park Racecourse", if that's the name of the only community it serves.

    Bit long winded....(Station Name Signs would be much bigger, therefore better for the Graffiti Artists :rolleyes: ) ... But better then ""Phoenix Park"


  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 5,186 Mod ✭✭✭✭spacetweek


    Skyhater wrote:
    Other ideas could be,
    "Dunsink Observatory", "Castleknock East", or "Ashtown West"????
    I had also thought of Ashtown West and think it's the best name, simply because Ashtown is the closest named area to the new station location and all other possible names are crap:

    Racecourse - It's not a racecourse
    Phoenix Park - This would result in tourists etc. thinking that the station was the primary access point for the park , which it isn't.
    Dunsink Observatory - OK but the observatory is too far from the station for it to be of any use

    When an area has no specific name but is near another area it's common to give the new area a name which is geographically related to the other area. The final solution is to come up with a totally new name, but that would be a bit ad-hoc.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 311 ✭✭Skyhater


    spacetweek wrote:
    I had also thought of Ashtown West and think it's the best name, simply because Ashtown is the closest named area to the new station location and all other possible names are crap:

    If only we all were in charge of station naming :)
    Unfortunately, the decision has already been made on this one. Phoenix Park is already on the Maps, Timetables, etc.
    But it's not too late for "Christchurch Station"...... Hopefully Public consultation process will save it!!!! The Dublin tourist office might have more influence than this board..... Might be worth a letter!!!!


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 78,537 ✭✭✭✭Victor


    Remind me. Is Christchurch on the North Island or South Island? ;)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,761 ✭✭✭✭Winters


    Its on the South Island AND south of the Liffey!:D


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 721 ✭✭✭Navan Junction


    Skyhater wrote:
    Well Give me a better one......
    Tolka Valley?
    New Broombridge?:rolleyes:
    Maybe something connected to the Strongbow battle with the King of Connaught close by?


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Education Moderators Posts: 27,290 CMod ✭✭✭✭spurious


    Another consideration when naming stations is that both the Irish and English versions have to be able to fit in the illuminated sign on the carriage.

    I think this gives a maximum length of twenty-two characters, but I'm not sure - there is definitely a limit though.

    **edit Point of information - it's Christ Church, not Christchurch - they are quite picky about that.**


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 721 ✭✭✭Navan Junction


    You know, looking at where it is, why not just call it 'Navan Road'? Might cause confusion if Navan does reopen


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 311 ✭✭Skyhater


    You know, looking at where it is, why not just call it 'Navan Road'? Might cause confusion if Navan does reopen

    I was thinking of that, also though it might get confused with the P&R station at Pace..... But still think it's a good Idea!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,331 ✭✭✭MarkoP11


    The station in Pace is referred to as M3 Park And Ride on the plans, this hits a issue if a station is built on the west side of Dunshaughlin which would also be a M3 park and ride. Pace you will have trouble finding on a map. The station for Fairyhouse racecourse was only 300m up the road from the M3 station site

    Up in Navan, Trim Rd is a possible name though it will probably be called Navan South or Navan Junction (former station off the Trim Rd)


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 721 ✭✭✭Navan Junction


    MarkoP11 wrote:
    The station for Fairyhouse racecourse was only 300m up the road from the M3 station site
    Have you seen the rubble from it there Mark? It was uncovered by the clearance work


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,107 ✭✭✭John R


    murphaph wrote:
    all stops/stations should be named after the principal street they exit to. that way, any a-z will allow the foreigner to find the place on a map.

    That sounds good in a coldly logical way but at some point you have to decide where the boundary between a city station with a street name or a suburban station where a town/village name would be more appropriate.

    There is another problem with that when dealing with old railway lines, many of the stations are on roads called "Station Road".

    Besides there can be confusion caused by accurately naming stops after their roads.

    People are regularly found looking confused at Edgware station, a town at the northern edge of Greater London on the london Underground network when they actually should have been going to or through Edgware Road station near Paddington, central London.

    Probably the best one though is the confusion that has caused a fair number of tourists and dopey locals to get deposited a very long way from their intended destination when travelling from Norwich by confusing London Liverpool St. with Liverpool Lime St.

    Yes, if these people conulted a-z or timetables or generally paid attention these mix-ups wouldn't happen but the reality is trhat there are plenty of people who for whatever reason do or cannot manage this and any possible confusion will lead them astray.

    I could also mention the fleet of trains in the UK that had to be modified soon after introduction as the poorly placed (but very well marked in numerous languages) emergency stop lever in the toilets were regularly being tugged on by people trying to flush the toilet. If there is ANY possible way of confusing something there is a % of people out there that will do so.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,761 ✭✭✭✭Winters


    Navan Road is much better than Phoenix Park and from Blanch onwards to navan the road shall be known as the M3 so I think Navan Road could work.

    Id much prefer to see 'Pace' than 'M3 Park and Ride'.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,761 ✭✭✭✭Winters


    In light of the latest route designs for the interconnector perhaps the names 'Thomas Street', 'Cornmarket' and 'Liberties' should also be looked at:

    interconnector3.JPG


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