Back Compatiblity...........Ouch!

McDermotX · 13-03-2007 03:31PM #1

First report on BC with PAL PS3.......not good,
but as the article states, its unconfirmed and with an older firmware revision....Jap and US systems are already on 1.54..

http://www.theinquirer.net/default.aspx?article=38191

koneko · 13-03-2007 03:49PM

They'd better change that soon (I suspect they will), because that's pitiful, it really is.

Zapp Brannigan · 13-03-2007 04:01PM

Yeah thats awful, but isnt there the newest firmware release scheduled for launch day. Hopefully that will sort it out, but then again what about people without Broadband? Will they constantly be crippled or will Sony supply firmware updates on game discs, a la PSP?

projectmayhem · 13-03-2007 04:01PM

McDermotX wrote:

First report on BC with PAL PS3.......not good,
but as the article states, its unconfirmed and with an older firmware revision....Jap and US systems are already on 1.54..

i would imagine, since the system wont be ready for BC until the new patch (on march 23rd) the one game working is a complete fluke.

also, why do people still bother with the inquirer? possibly the most uninformed site i've ever had the displeasure of gazing at...

McDermotX · 13-03-2007 04:35PM

projectmayhem wrote:

i would imagine, since the system wont be ready for BC until the new patch (on march 23rd) the one game working is a complete fluke.

also, why do people still bother with the inquirer? possibly the most uninformed site i've ever had the displeasure of gazing at...

Wouldn't trust them as far as I could throw them........just happened to link from another site. But the story is on various sites now..

The fact that is was tried on 1.50 firmware ties in with the timing of delivery of PAL units from China back in Jan/Feb. But it at least shows there was preliminary support for software emulation. PS3 revision has gone through 2 further updates since (1.51 and 1.54).....the 1.6 update will be the key one in March for all systems (US,Jap,Euro)..
Last rumour was that the 1.6 update will be released prior to the Euro launch and that the Euro machine would in turn ship with said update (cutting it close though,as the machines will have already gone through final QC....worst case scenario, update has to be applied when connecting to the net first time........you cannot access the PS Store if you're not on the latest firmware revision)

whitetrash · 13-03-2007 05:09PM

Having to apply the patch before getting online would suck. A few people had problems getting the wii online at firsst cause of the same thing. Too many people trying to get it at once.

mayto · 13-03-2007 06:17PM

has it being confirmed anywhere what firmware is on the euro launch ps3's yet? Seeing as 1.54 only came out on the 28th of February, its probably 1.51 or some fw in between developed for the euro ps3's

unreggd · 13-03-2007 11:35PM

Why cant they just make a firmware that will make everything compatible?

Like, the PS2 was just the PS2, it didnt hafta be updated all the time

I really dont understand this at all

Vegeta · 13-03-2007 11:46PM

what if you don't have broadband and it ships with an old patch, will they supply it on discs?

projectmayhem · 14-03-2007 12:49AM

unreggd wrote:

Why cant they just make a firmware that will make everything compatible?

Like, the PS2 was just the PS2, it didnt hafta be updated all the time

I really dont understand this at all

the reason is just that the ps2 had to be coded different to the ps3, so the processor has to "pretend" it's a ps2. the issue there is developers, in order to extract the maximum power from a weak machine in its latter days, had to do various tricks and tweaks to make their games run the way they wanted on a ps2. these tricks and tweaks aren't recognised by the ps3 largely, so what happens is that sony have to find the tricks and make some code that will let the ps3 recognise these tricks and put them to use... this code comes in the form of a patch!

AceCard Jones · 14-03-2007 01:06AM

Vegeta wrote:

what if you don't have broadband and it ships with an old patch, will they supply it on discs?

Yes, Sony will be releasing the most recent firmware updates with all their games apparently.

Patricide · 14-03-2007 01:09AM

if thats the case shadow of the collosus might take a while, i mean they apparently did a ****e load of trickery to get stuff working, the dynamic lighting and all that jazz.

AceCard Jones · 14-03-2007 01:15AM

I have some similar worries about the likes of Final Fantasy XII and Canis Canem Edit etc, all relatively new and beautiful games that surely were tweaked in some ways.But still, if Sony have any sense left after all their tom foolery, they'll work long and hard on getting the biggest of the franchise games sorted.
BC is very important to me, so my first impression on the console will be based on how many of my PS1 and PS2 library work.:)

Retr0gamer · 14-03-2007 01:29AM

Anyone interested in just how far Shadow of the colossus pushed the PS2 should give this article a read:

http://edusworld.org/ew/ficheros/2006/paginasWeb/making_of_sotc.html

Very interesting reading. A lot of next gen effects are used or emulated on a very old piece of hardware including some unique features that haven't been seen in any other next gen games like the collisional deformation.

I really don't see why the PS2 chipset (I refuse to call it 'emotion engine') was removed by Sony since it is so cheap to manufacture. Sony are including it in many of their electronic products such as TV's, Hifi's etc. to power the user interfaces. I suppose 10 dollars saved per PS3 adds up in the end.

AceCard Jones · 14-03-2007 12:24PM

I heard they save $75 per CPU not installed?
Could be wrong, I'll check it out again later.

Lord Nikon · 14-03-2007 12:36PM

I heard that the PS3 does not contain the Emotion Engine, and basically there is a chip that tries to emulate it instead.

Ciaran500 · 14-03-2007 12:56PM

Kinda, they removed the EE to make it cheaper to produce so all the emulation has to be done by software on the cell. Which can be hit and miss.

Retr0gamer · 14-03-2007 02:16PM

AceCard Jones wrote:

I heard they save $75 per CPU not installed?
Could be wrong, I'll check it out again later.

I doubt it very much that it's that much. The PS2 chip is manufactured in such quantities and the amount of chips reduced for the PS2lite that I'd say it's very cheap to manufacture.

Ciaran500 · 14-03-2007 03:13PM

Figures around $20 were being banded around by third parties at the PStwo launch for a whole PStwo, can't see EE+GS costing that much.

McDermotX · 15-03-2007 11:45AM

From Threespeech..

As of yesterday, there were 1200 PlayStation 2 titles which are compatible with the new software emulation on the European PlayStation 3. We weren’t given any specific titles, but the key titles have absolutely had the most work put into them. Expect God of War 2 to be compatible come launch day. Phil also expects that number to grow over the next week, so when you plug in your PS3 on launch day (if you are lucky/rich enough to get one) the console will automatically download a firmware update (Version 1.6) which will enable you to play your PS2 titles. Not that anyone is going to want to play anything other than Resistance or Motorstorm on launch day, right

Some other info here..... http://www.petecullen.net/?p=176

Still a bit disconcerting that there is no list of compatible games, although chances are work is ongoing right upto the release of the expected firmware ..

Vegeta · 15-03-2007 11:55AM

Retr0gamer wrote:

I doubt it very much that it's that much. The PS2 chip is manufactured in such quantities and the amount of chips reduced for the PS2lite that I'd say it's very cheap to manufacture.

well he could be correct, maybe the units cost $10 but you'd save money in not having to assemble them in the PS3, so manufacturing time would be slightly lower.

It would not have to be tested which would also save money. They would not have to be shipped to the factory in the first place.

So while the unit might cost 10 bucks the manufacturing cost and test costs may decrease giving more savings. I don't know would you save $75 per PS3 but I am just pointing out there are more savings to be made than just the cost of the chips alone.

notahappycamper · 15-03-2007 01:17PM

McDermotX wrote:

From Threespeech..

Some other info here..... http://www.petecullen.net/?p=176

Still a bit disconcerting that there is no list of compatible games, although chances are work is ongoing right upto the release of the expected firmware ..

A link to a list is available (don't have it to hand at the mo) which will list compatible games from 23rd March.

AceCard Jones · 15-03-2007 02:34PM

An official list isn't available yet.Anything I read before the 23rd regarding compatible games I'm treating purely as rumour.The Firmware for BC isn't being released until the 23rd and the work is in progress right now so an official list can't be up.

And Vegeta, You were along the lines of my thinking, the Chip removal itself isn't the only money they're saving, I'm assuming if the chip isn't been put on the motherboard, that the motherboard has no socket for the CPU, which in turn could reduce the cost of the motherboard.And as you mentioned shipping etc.

notahappycamper · 15-03-2007 04:19PM

AceCard Jones wrote:

An official list isn't available yet.Anything I read before the 23rd regarding compatible games I'm treating purely as rumour.The Firmware for BC isn't being released until the 23rd and the work is in progress right now so an official list can't be up.

And Vegeta, You were along the lines of my thinking, the Chip removal itself isn't the only money they're saving, I'm assuming if the chip isn't been put on the motherboard, that the motherboard has no socket for the CPU, which in turn could reduce the cost of the motherboard.And as you mentioned shipping etc.

Just in case you took me up the wrong way - yes no official list is available yet but there will be from 23rd March. I'll post the link up later.

Retr0gamer · 15-03-2007 05:12PM

AceCard Jones wrote:

An official list isn't available yet.Anything I read before the 23rd regarding compatible games I'm treating purely as rumour.The Firmware for BC isn't being released until the 23rd and the work is in progress right now so an official list can't be up.

And Vegeta, You were along the lines of my thinking, the Chip removal itself isn't the only money they're saving, I'm assuming if the chip isn't been put on the motherboard, that the motherboard has no socket for the CPU, which in turn could reduce the cost of the motherboard.And as you mentioned shipping etc.

Changing the motherboard would cost them a lot of money even a minor change like that. Expect an empty socket where the PS2 chipset goes.

steviec · 15-03-2007 06:07PM

I have no idea why Sony haven't published the list yet. That article is rubbish, but articles like that wouldn't be coming out if Sony announced what is and isn't gonna be compatible at launch, expecting us to buy it and then come home and find out is a bit much.

AceCard Jones · 15-03-2007 06:43PM

True, but if Sony are indeed keeping the list private for negative reasons, and the BC list is in-fact for whatever reason terrible, you can just get a refund on the product anyway surely?Since people think their motive behind not releasing the list yet is to stop people canceling pre-orders, since Sony have now announced and promised over 1200 BC titles, if it turns out that isn't the case and there is far less, people are buying a product that isn't capable of what Sony actually promised us as a response to our disgust about the EE being removed.So surely we are entitled to return it?

I just don't think Sony are in any position to push the EU consumers any further.

McDermotX · 15-03-2007 06:51PM

Of course,
you could be looking at 1200 titles of which 50% are fully compatible..
Like the 360 BC, more than likely not all of the titles they list will be 100% perfectly playable or stable frame-rates (ala Ninja Gaiden on launch), or some could have save-game issues..
We just don't know, and if Sony are burning the midnight-oil on coding emulation stacks, they may not be in a position to publish the list right now..
Of course, the 1.6 update will get to a stage when its "set in stone" prior to release (probably a week before), so Sony should really have a final list available by now (unless they are banking on individual updates for titles over the next few weeks or so)..

notahappycamper · 15-03-2007 08:19PM

notahappycamper wrote:

A link to a list is available (don't have it to hand at the mo) which will list compatible games from 23rd March.

This was the link but they seem to have pulled it down for some reason! Anyway it basically just said to check back on Friday 23rd March. They might re-instate it then.

http://faq.eu.playstation.com/bc/

Kevin2006 · 15-03-2007 09:36PM

The ps2 has thousands of games in their catelogue. I only want a handful to play on the ps3 - God of War 2, pro evo etc.. I would say the majority of people want these games to work aswell. Hopefully they will

Patricide · 15-03-2007 10:30PM

Kevin2006 wrote:

The ps2 has thousands of games in their catelogue. I only want a handful to play on the ps3 - God of War 2, pro evo etc.. I would say the majority of people want these games to work aswell. Hopefully they will

i know where your coming from but still itd be nice to be able to still check out lost classics. I mean i remember when i got my ps2, i saw little big adventure in chart busters once and had to rent it. To my remembering it was never really big but it didnt mean it wasnt good.

Games like red faction could suffer a similar fate.

Back Compatiblity...........Ouch!

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