between two rocks and a hard place, action?

El Stuntman · 23-02-2007 10:32AM #1

Setting: Live 1/2 PLHE in the Sporting Aquarium. Table has been generally loose and gambly.

Personae dramatis as follows:

UTG: SLAG-ish player, ~300 of a stack. Loves to limp along, has only raised PF with premium hands.

CO: frequently abused by rest of table for his rock-like tendencies. Has shown down AA and KK in winning two big pots recently. ~700 in front

SB: dashingly handsome Boardsie and our Hero. Smells good. In no way intoxicated. Has played about 10 pots in 4 hours. Only hands he has shown down are AA (to bust Borat in a silly pot where he pushed PF for 300 with 55, lol) and AK. Stack ~700
It's safe to say he has a tight image.

Action as follows:

UTG posts the compulsory blind raise to 7.

Couple of limpers around to the CO.
He pots it to 25 or so.

SB looks down at AKo.
He has read Mr Pillow Talk's post about changing the way you play AK out of the blinds.
He is highly impressionable.
He calls.

UTG now looks at his hand.
He re-pots to 90.

Limpers exit stage right.

Folded around to original raiser. He clearly hates the situation and glances several times at SB's stack. Lines up chips to raise. Ponders for ages and then calls for 90.
Pot now ~230.

Action on hero and he..........

pok3rplaya · 23-02-2007 10:49AM

If you think UTG plays like this with JJ then jam the pot

pok3rplaya · 23-02-2007 10:50AM

Also you are flipping with/dominating the CO

ianmc38 · 23-02-2007 10:53AM

Nit raised, other guy who'd only raied premium hands reraises. Surely this is an easy fold?

El Stuntman · 23-02-2007 10:58AM

I forgot to mention that, earlier in the evening's entertainment, our dashingly handsome hero has pushed AIPF for ~200 with AK and been called by (a slightly slow-rolled) AA

he has recovered from that setback but it may be interfering with his psyche somewhat as he contemplates his move here....

pok3rplaya · 23-02-2007 11:15AM

lol I love your story style

As I said it hinges on what the UTG will RR here. Obv he RR AA/KK and we should fold. If we think he RR AK/QQ then we are like 50/50 call/fold. If we think he RR JJ then it swings us into calling.

robinlacey · 23-02-2007 11:42AM

these kind of preflop figuring out equity against various ranges situations aren't exactly my forte,and i've been up all night so i can't claim to be completely focused,but surely figuring out his range for reraising is only half the battle,(unless we are just calling) since if we raise his calling range has us crushed?

robinlacey · 23-02-2007 11:44AM

oh i missed that in pok3rplaya's second post he was advocating calling,i was responding to the "If you think UTG plays like this with JJ then jam the pot" post

BigCityBanker · 23-02-2007 11:54AM

IF UTG is Murat I think id push. His range for RR from an UTG blind raise he is quite large and by that I mean 55+, A10+, and any two broadway cards.

CO Can only call with AA/KK/AK and if he is the rock he is made out to be he folds everything else. Id be pretty sure he only contemplated RR UTG'sRR (assuming its MURAT) as he knew he was most likely ahead of his range and bottled it cos he was afraid of your presence in the pot.

In short - the table dynamics are foooooked up if UTG is MURAT - If its him JAMM the whole fookin lot into the middle....

El Stuntman · 23-02-2007 11:57AM

BigCityBanker wrote:

IF UTG is Murat I think id push. His range for RR from an UTG blind raise he is quite large and by that I mean 55+, A10+, and any two broadway cards

BCB, I would hardly describe Borat as Slightly Loose Aggressive!

It's not him, he has donated and left the building

phantom_lord · 23-02-2007 12:03PM

I think I'd like a shove here.

Isn't this likely to be one of those times when someone tries to steal the blind raise and blind raiser defends with thrash?

If the co is guninuinely uncomfortable calling the 90 then surely he wont like calling a shove, I don't really care about utg cause I think he's folding alot here, and we're gonna be good against him a lot.

although on the other hand....

Nit raised, other guy who'd only raied premium hands reraises. Surely this is an easy fold?

El Stuntman · 23-02-2007 12:07PM

phantom_lord wrote:

I think I'd like a shove here.

Isn't this likely to be one of those times when someone tries to steal the blind raise and blind raiser defends with thrash?

definitely not, there is tension in the air. sh!t is about to go down

man

phantom_lord wrote:

If the co is guninuinely uncomfortable calling the 90 then surely he wont like calling a shove, I don't really care about utg cause I think he's folding alot here, and we're gonna be good against him a lot.

he's not worried about the UTG raiser, he's worried about me

StraddleFor6 · 23-02-2007 12:09PM

I don't like it.
A King high flop, I still don't like it. Fold.

phantom_lord · 23-02-2007 12:13PM

El Stuntman wrote:

definitely not, there is tension in the air. sh!t is about to go down

man

he's not worried about the UTG raiser, he's worried about me

ok, then it's an easy fold, no?

BigCityBanker · 23-02-2007 12:14PM

El Stuntman wrote:

BCB, I would hardly describe Borat as Slightly Loose Aggressive!

I took the S to mean Super

Im not sure what id do now. Let me have a think. Tell you what - when you post the result of the hand I will give my best results based thinking interpretation of the hand.

LuckyLloyd · 23-02-2007 12:26PM

This post has been deleted.

El Stuntman · 23-02-2007 12:40PM

LuckyLloyd wrote:

:eek: Danger!! Danger!!:eek:

Fold very quick please.

bah you hotshot tournament types place too much reliance on tells

LuckyLloyd · 23-02-2007 12:42PM

This post has been deleted.

Bandana boy · 23-02-2007 12:43PM

We got to think we are quite likely dominated here and at best we are racing
as from your posts it sounds like AQ is out of the question

With that in mind and the fact you have 6 other bad loose players at the table and you have only invested 25 bucks in the hand there is no need to play for stacks with the rock

If you call I would concentrate really hard on a QJT flop

El Stuntman · 23-02-2007 01:11PM

OK - results.

(I think pok3rplayer was closest to the money with his analysis).

The UTG player's range was JJ up. Worst case he had AA/KK and the dashing hero was totally dominated.
I discounted substantially the chances of him holding AA/KK, given the fact that I had AK. I firmly put the CO on AK/QQ/JJ - he would have pumped it again with AA/KK and I would have had an easy decision to fold.
He was not the type to smooth call with AA/KK in position, ultra ABC. Hence my comment to Lloyd....

After all that noodle-scratching, I reckoned therefore I had reasonable odds to call (even OOP) and take a flop.

Flop was a dream K97 rainbow. Very noticeable tells from the UTG player that he didn't like it.
Therefore I potted for ~300.

UTG insta-folded and later said JJ and the CO agonsied about folding QQ but eventually made the laydown.

I still have no idea whether I played the hand well or not!

Opinions?

valor · 23-02-2007 01:28PM

why on earth would you lead if they dont like the flop

El Stuntman · 23-02-2007 02:14PM

valor wrote:

why on earth would you lead if they dont like the flop

I only saw UTG's reaction.

phantom_lord · 23-02-2007 03:02PM

check the flop?

Ste05 · 23-02-2007 03:18PM

PF, I think a fold, push or call are all OK to varying degrees, although I like a call least af all. You're unlikely to get paid on an A or K high flop because it's unlikely they have AQ or KQ here and hence can pay you off. You're also going to be OOP in a huge pot with a quite narrow range. If you miss and the UTG player inevitably pushes his last 200 in, you'll just have to fold. A push/re-raise would have been fine too because you should have plenty enough fold equity for it to get through. Especially if you think it's unlikely you're up against AA or KK. (and as you say you hold one of each so the chances are reduced) It's also a great spot for a squeeze because the UTG raiser has to be afraid of the button and the button probably doesn't have AA or KK because of the cold call and hence should fold, and you can lock up a nice little profit here and now.

Fold is also fine due to the fact that you will be OOP as I said in my call comments.

As played, with this flop, I would have checked. With the ranges of the villains it's a case of someone here is either miles behind or miles ahead, (with only you possibly drawing dead (to KK). So betting out lets all the hands that are miles behind fold JJ and QQ are relatively easy folds there. It also makes it very easy for the miles ahead brigade to stack you. Hence check and let one of them take a stab. I'd probably let them take multiple stabs, because although the board is quite draw heavy it's unlikely these sort of tightish players are in this spot with 108 or the likes.

El Stuntman · 23-02-2007 03:26PM

very good analysis Ste

unfortunately several things were clouding my judgement at the time (3 pints of Guinness, a G&T, 2 mojitos, a bottle of Sancerre and some Malbec)

I'd like to think I could have got there with a clear head (ow)

BigCityBanker · 23-02-2007 03:33PM

El Stuntman wrote:

2 mojitos

you know I was in BrasserieSixty6 last Friday night and I drank an abnormal amount of these!! Never had one before then but there fine you know!!

phantom_lord · 23-02-2007 03:33PM

I was going to write a longer post but ste did that for me...basically...I like calling least of all, you're oop and have no implied odds, I think it's a shove or fold pf, leaning towards a fold myself.

check flop, worse hands fold, better call etc, and you'll probably get a bet out of qq/jj or whatever.

El Stuntman · 23-02-2007 03:42PM

mojitos were Ernest Hemmingway's drink of choice

if it's good enough for Papa, it's good enough for me!

(no-one knows how to make 'em properly here though)

robinlacey · 23-02-2007 11:57PM

i really think shoving preflop is out of the question,sure you might be ahead of his range when you make the shove,but you are not ahead of his range at all if he calls...

i think calling or folding are both fine,i would shove if i had 100bbs but we have 350bbs or something here

pok3rplaya · 24-02-2007 07:32PM

Just to say I thought we had 100bb's when I said jam the pot.

between two rocks and a hard place, action?

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