Riot squad to be at Croker on Saturday

InFront · 20-02-2007 03:08AM

Seanies32 wrote:

It is still the GAA's ground. The GAA are the landlords, the IRFU and for that matter the FAI are the tenants. How ironic, Michael Cusack one of the founders of the GAA and hence the Cusack stand, was also a member of the Land League! I suppose that shows you how Ireland and indeed the GAA has changed. Not so narrow minded as people would like to think! The GAA owns the ground that the "foreign and opresive sports" are renting! Anyway I have said that in a tongue in cheek way! but there is some truth there.

O'Toole also said the week before, whether we like it or not Sport and religion, culture etc. are linked. The majority (by far) of GAA followers are very pround of the distinctly Irish identity that the GAA represents.

I agree with your post in its entirety. My only problem is with the guys who think this is a sell-out (in the sense of betrayal), or that it undermines the GAA, or that it undermines Irishness, or undermines the dignity of Irish people. In fact, this game, so long as the more rebellious factions of the crowd, inside or outside, stay quiet, will do the exact opposite.

I hate when sporting occasions attempt to make political comments, but in this case, it has the potential to be an extremely positive statement.

Futureman · 20-02-2007 03:10AM

dregin wrote:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bloody_Sunday_(1920)

The English national anthem being sung in Croker is a sore point dew to the events of Bloody Sunday, 1920.... That's right. 87 years ago. I'm not saying what happened was right, but there's a point where ya have to realize that the past is in the past. Some people will, more than likely, use the horrors of the past to have a go at running amok and causing chaos...

Okay - so there were 2 Bloody Sundays? 1920 and 1972?

InFront · 20-02-2007 03:13AM

Heh, there were about 20! But yeah, two in Ireland.

patrickc · 20-02-2007 03:48AM

From speaking to a Garda inspector today they are expecting TROUBLE big time

SimpleSam06 · 20-02-2007 09:13AM

InFront wrote:

I agree with your post in its entirety. My only problem is with the guys who think this is a sell-out (in the sense of betrayal), or that it undermines the GAA, or that it undermines Irishness, or undermines the dignity of Irish people. In fact, this game, so long as the more rebellious factions of the crowd, inside or outside, stay quiet, will do the exact opposite.

I hate when sporting occasions attempt to make political comments, but in this case, it has the potential to be an extremely positive statement.

Hold on a minute there, maybe I'm missing something but why did they need to use Croke park in the first place? Isn't the use of Croke park an attempt to make a cack-handed political comment in and of itself?

What exactly is a "positive statement" about the GAA accepting large sums of money to let non GAA sports be played in Croke park? Lets face it, at the end of the day there is no other reason for this decision to have gone through than enormous amounts of shiny coinage and the greed attendant with that.

Or is it some sort of "end to racism against English people" thing going on? Correct me if I'm wrong here, but traditionally, the boot was on the other foot, and it wasn't Irish people that were racist against the English. We have nothing to prove in that court, despite the feeling among some (and I'm looking at you Seanies32) that Ireland is somehow "narrow minded" in that respect.

As I see it, the single and only traditional Irish sporting organisation has reversed its rules about the exclusive use of its sporting grounds, so that they can be used by anyone, in exchange for a fat sack of cash, and under pressure from the political head of the country, that gobshite bertie, no less.

I find a great deal to object to in that.

It doesn't undermine Irishness or whatever, but don't you think it makes us a bit of a laughing stock?

DublinWriter · 20-02-2007 09:46AM

dregin wrote:

What was intended as a peaceful protest at the love ulster crap in Dublin last year sadly provided a rally point for mindless scumbags to start rioting/looting/rascist attacks. They'd do well to cancel it of their own accord.

Mark my words - this will be the shower who will cause mayhem on that day.

The English rugger fans won't start anything, but given the vast quantities of drink consumed, I can see trouble happening.

mikemac · 20-02-2007 10:05AM

I live beside Croke Park and this sort of thread has me worried. I park my motorbike outside my house (often unlocked) but I reckon I'll leave it the underground car park at work for the weekend.
I thought I'd be safe though as I within the garda cordon, i.e you need a match ticket to walk down my road. Better play it safe though.

Just a quick point that I don't think anyone else has raised. I was a volunteer during the 2003 Special Olympics and "God Save the Queen was played in Croke Park then. Why all the hype four years later?

The Gardai should be given a free hand to crack down on any violence that occurs. The sort of scumbags who may cause trouble and profess to hate the English are the same people who worship Premiership teams and English players like Gerrrard, Lampard, etc. I wonder do they see the irony.

Jello · 20-02-2007 10:06AM

Futureman wrote:

Okay - so there were 2 Bloody Sundays? 1920 and 1972?

There were more than two - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bloody_sunday

I think if violence and riots do start it could be the end of rugby being played at Croke Park.

Villaricos · 20-02-2007 10:08AM

SimpleSam06 wrote:

Hold on a minute there, maybe I'm missing something but why did they need to use Croke park in the first place? Isn't the use of Croke park an attempt to make a cack-handed political comment in and of itself?

theyre using Croke Park while Lansdowne is being redeveloped so that home internationals wouldnt have to take place abroad. In a perfect world it should be as simple as that. The GAA have voted and decided they would allow it so there should no debate at this stage. They knew this decision would involve an English rugby team singing GSTQ there and they voted yes.

I think the media are hyping this whole issue up to try and cause trouble, yes I know thats what the media does. Sensationalism and all that sells but I think they should step back when it becomes so irresponsible that it could embarass and damage the reputation of the IRFU, the GAA, the Irish rugby team and Ireland as a nation by thugs and rent-a-mob on the day.
But of course then they get to report it....

Lets not forget 1973 when England were the only rugby team to come over and play in Ireland and got a massive welcome from the crowd, surely being much more recent than 1920 it should be remembered.

seamus · 20-02-2007 11:00AM

I'm very much doubting there'll be hassle in the ground. Though as sceptre says, I'd prefer a huge riot squad and no riot, than a huge riot and no riot squad.

I'd say there may be some hassle outside of the ground (scumbags shouting at Rugby fans and that), but some of that went on at the French match anyway.

I'd just avoid the traditional GAA pubs in and around Croker for the day. One particular pub beginning with a H and ending with a 6 comes to mind.

20-02-2007 11:12AM

I'm really disappointed with the papers reporting of this story.

As someone mentioned god save the queen has already been played at least once at croker already.

flanzer · 20-02-2007 11:31AM

A few weeks ago I would have said there'll be no trouble...ABSOLUTLEY NONE. But after reading various articles in papers and talking to a few people in the Gards, I think there will be.

It's sad that we can't move on, but people feel passionate about history, in the same way people feel passionate about sport.

While Irish sport is on a crest of a wave at the moment (forgetting about our soccer team), I've a bad feeling that this could be a dark day in the history of sport. Pray it's just a peaceful protest and doesn't get out of hand

shane86 · 20-02-2007 11:32AM

Ikky Poo2 wrote:

Dear Jesus I can't believe some people are ACTUALLY thick enough to think that people are going to riot based on their sporting preferences!!!

I cant believe you are pretending to know what you are on about. Jesus H Christ, how many riots have you seen at rugby or cricket matches? Im not even a rugby follower, but I know that the vast majority of fans are not exactly the rioting type. This is also true of soccer of course, and bar the very odd incident at League of Ireland matches Irish soccer hooliganism is almost unheard of (in the Republic at least), especially international games. However, on a European level soccer is pretty much the only sport that attracts crowd vioence. And despite our constant assurances from the English FA that its a very tiny minority that cause trouble, from what I read from Irish people in Germany during the WC, while certainly not the majority, there was a large minority of fans behaving in a menacing way (either violence or general chanting)

Im not even a big republican at all but imo it shouldnt be played as a mark of respect.

Mitzy · 20-02-2007 11:37AM

If there is going to be any trouble it will be from scobies outside the stadium. Rugby fans are not the rioting type. Either way I believe the media is hyping this whole God Save the Queen thing up. If there is trouble they will have to take responsibility. At this stage its about time people grew up & left history to the history books. We've all got to move with the times!!!

Hagar · 20-02-2007 11:39AM

A stadium with a capacity for over 83,000 and no car park? Now that's a riot.

Marksie · 20-02-2007 11:48AM

shane86 wrote:

I cant believe you are pretending to know what you are on about. Jesus H Christ, how many riots have you seen at rugby or cricket matches? Im not even a rugby follower, but I know that the vast majority of fans are not exactly the rioting type. This is also true of soccer of course, and bar the very odd incident at League of Ireland matches Irish soccer hooliganism is almost unheard of (in the Republic at least), especially international games. However, on a European level soccer is pretty much the only sport that attracts crowd vioence. And despite our constant assurances from the English FA that its a very tiny minority that cause trouble, from what I read from Irish people in Germany during the WC, while certainly not the majority, there was a large minority of fans behaving in a menacing way (either violence or general chanting)

Im not even a big republican at all but imo it shouldnt be played as a mark of respect.

Well as an ex rugby player i would agree with those saying that in general they are there for the game, and mingling between fans presents no problem. I put it down to the level of physical violence being confined to the pitch

.

Unfortunately the wannabes and hangers on may want to start something...
it is worth remembering though that... as far as rugby league is concerned anyways, when the finals were played at wembley the rules stated that the crowd was 10-15000 less than at soccer matches. Due to the fact that rugby fans are "generally bigger and stronger".

As for english and soccer violence... old issue, look at recent events in italy.

Cricket: I believe pakistan once rioted.

The national anthem: Why shouldn't it, if you want to extend logic then it then the irish one shouldn't be played due to the killings in the terrorist campaigns. Quid pro quo.
Still i am not going to make a serious issue on that last comment and if someone wants to, then thats your small mind.

Scootay · 20-02-2007 11:50AM

The garda public order unit (i.e. riot squad) is always on duty at Croke Park when there is a something on there. It just makes sense when there are that many people in one place to have them on standby. That it is being mentioned in the media now is another attempt to add to the hype.

There's a lot of guff about GSTQ being disrespectful to the lads who died in 1920 and the GAA lads who fought in Cogar na Saoirse but what about the disrespect paid to them everytime GAA fans shout over AnbhF at every single GAA match in Croke Park?

This is a non-event the media are hoping to turn into something and RSF are only delighted at the opportunity to get some ignorant scobies in Celtic jersies chucking bottles as evidence of some grassroots nationalist sentiment.

cournioni · 20-02-2007 12:15PM

Damn Rugbyheads, causing all sorts of trouble...

Princess Consuela Bananahammock · 20-02-2007 12:22PM

shane86 wrote:

I cant believe you are pretending to know what you are on about. Jesus H Christ, how many riots have you seen at rugby or cricket matches? Im not even a rugby follower, but I know that the vast majority of fans are not exactly the rioting type. This is also true of soccer of course, and bar the very odd incident at League of Ireland matches Irish soccer hooliganism is almost unheard of (in the Republic at least), especially international games. However, on a European level soccer is pretty much the only sport that attracts crowd vioence. And despite our constant assurances from the English FA that its a very tiny minority that cause trouble, from what I read from Irish people in Germany during the WC, while certainly not the majority, there was a large minority of fans behaving in a menacing way (either violence or general chanting)

Im not even a big republican at all but imo it shouldnt be played as a mark of respect.

You misread my post: I was replying to people who thought that soccer/rugby/GAA fans would/would never riot.

There are people who are going to go and cause trouble. They are not interested in ANY sport. They are not there because they like/don't like rugby/GAA/Soccer. Thet are not even there because they are republican. They are there because they are anti-brittish.

What goes on inside Croke is about sport. What goes out outside most certainly is not.
Any clearer?

K-9 · 20-02-2007 01:00PM

clown bag wrote:

built with rugby supporters tax money.

Only Rugby supporters pay tax? What is Lansdowne Road being re-developed with, only rugby supporters tax too?

K-9 · 20-02-2007 01:19PM

SimpleSam06 wrote:

What exactly is a "positive statement" about the GAA accepting large sums of money to let non GAA sports be played in Croke park? Lets face it, at the end of the day there is no other reason for this decision to have gone through than enormous amounts of shiny coinage and the greed attendant with that.

Or is it some sort of "end to racism against English people" thing going on? Correct me if I'm wrong here, but traditionally, the boot was on the other foot, and it wasn't Irish people that were racist against the English. We have nothing to prove in that court, despite the feeling among some (and I'm looking at you Seanies32) that Ireland is somehow "narrow minded" in that respect.

As I see it, the single and only traditional Irish sporting organisation has reversed its rules about the exclusive use of its sporting grounds, so that they can be used by anyone, in exchange for a fat sack of cash, and under pressure from the political head of the country, that gobshite bertie, no less.

I find a great deal to object to in that.

It doesn't undermine Irishness or whatever, but don't you think it makes us a bit of a laughing stock?

Far more people in England will be aware of Bloody Sunday and the GAA after Saturday. Ireland has nothing to prove to England. I would like to think that we are an independent country that stands equal with others. The Americans and Australians where racist against the Irish in the past. Surprising actually how anti-catholic Australia was. The Catholics only really started getting education rights in the 40's and 50's. Quite similar to Northern Ireland in ways. No Compromise Rules in Croker either then?

I take your point on the opening of the ground for money. Amazing how Croke Park was developed without being closed! 75% of delegates didn't though. The delegates would be more conservative than most GAA Supporters. A democratic decision was made by a democratic organisation. 75% is quite a majority. The ground is only open to other sports while Lansdowne is being redeveloped. It would take another vote to open it permanently which I think would be a different matter entirely.

Plissken1 · 20-02-2007 01:25PM

rb_ie wrote:

I really hope nothing happens. Last years riots were unbelievably embarrassing, as was the Gardaí's handling of it (I mean, how many actually got punished for their behaviour in the end?).

Though, given the sheer volume of retarded little shams in this country, it is a frightening possibility. I just hope that, should anything happen, the Gardaí handle it appropriately.

I'd actually go so far as to say I'd be happy to see the Gardaí take off their ID numbers and start kicking lumps out of each and every little sham involved.

As with last years trouble, I will know something is going to happen when I get the Arrow, if its packed full of Chav Scum heading into town (as it was last year) then I may not bother going. Unfortunately, there is also no shortage of Trailer Trash, only too happy to answer the call, and defend our culture by causing trouble. SAD !

robinph · 20-02-2007 01:50PM

SimpleSam06 wrote:

It doesn't undermine Irishness or whatever, but don't you think it makes us a bit of a laughing stock?

And having to of played "home" games in Cardiff when a perfectly adequate stadium sits empty back in Dublin wouldn't have given anyone a reason to laugh at at the Irish all now would it?

lostexpectation · 20-02-2007 06:18PM

patrickc2006 wrote:

From speaking to a Garda inspector today they are expecting TROUBLE big time

well are they going to **** it as badly as they did last time, is that there plan( or did they plan that I still wonder), to leave a treaure trove of materials on the route for missiles, ?

its right to point out the riot squad are always on duty? for most large events even the most benign, they seem to get their practice from shels matches though.

if they try to break up the RSF protest outside in north dublin, there will be trouble, yes they just need to be invisible unless there really needed, I don't how a few RSF could start trouble when the anthem is played in the stadium ? I presume the seats are well screwed down...

any english/loyalist coming to the match to make trouble?

best bet is let protests burn out, but if they need to make political point the riot cops are very good starting riots

lostexpectation · 20-02-2007 06:20PM

patrickc2006 wrote:

From speaking to a Garda inspector today they are expecting TROUBLE big time

well are they going to **** it as badly as they did last time, is that there plan( or did they plan that I still wonder), to leave a treaure trove of materials on the route for missiles, ?

its right to point out the riot squad are always on duty? for most large events even the most benign, they seem to get their practice from shels matches though.

if they try to break up the RSF protest outside in north dublin, there will be trouble, yes they just need to be invisible unless there really needed, I don't how a few RSF could start trouble when the anthem is played in the stadium ? I presume the seats are well screwed down...

any english/loyalist coming to the match to make trouble?

best bet is let protests burn out, but if they need to make political point (maybe it doens't suit the gov at the mo? or does it) the riot cops are very good starting riots

when was the anthemn played before?

20-02-2007 06:28PM

Why is it that people only seem to cause trouble at the beginning of the week? I mean there's never been a Bloody Tuesday or Wednesday.

Anyways, I certainly wouldn't want to be anywhere near the center of Dublin on Saturday. Riots or not, that place is going to be insane with drinking, traffic and general mayhem. Much like any other day then I suppose.

crybaby · 20-02-2007 06:32PM

i have a feeling the RSF lads might try and kick something off before the match but I think the Gardai will have learnt their lession from the Love Ulster march and will be able to control it

InFront · 20-02-2007 06:43PM

SimpleSam06 wrote:

Hold on a minute there, maybe I'm missing something but why did they need to use Croke park in the first place? Isn't the use of Croke park an attempt to make a cack-handed political comment in and of itself?

I don't agree that it was the intention, the use of Croke Park is simply because Lansdowne Road is being redeveloped. If it wasn't being redeveloped, there would be no need for it.

Lets face it, at the end of the day there is no other reason for this decision to have gone through than enormous amounts of shiny coinage and the greed attendant with that.

Perhaps, that's a matter for the GAA and GAA supporters though. What was your opinion on holding the special olympics ceremonies there, with all the anthems and flags that were part of the day?

Correct me if I'm wrong here, but traditionally, the boot was on the other foot, and it wasn't Irish people that were racist against the English. We have nothing to prove in that court

You are familiar with the IRA surely, and their bombing campaigns in Britain in recent years. Don't you think that people would find the translated version of the Irish national anthem more offensive than a jingle about a grey old queen? It is not all one-sided, the only difference is that I haven't heard any English rugby fans complaining about such things.

It doesn't undermine Irishness or whatever, but don't you think it makes us a bit of a laughing stock?

I don't like the idea of making any particular group a laughing stock, but it is completely bizarre that this debate is going on after all of Ireland's economic success, and despite what Ireland has proved about itself as a country. It is the anti-British arguments that are often put forward which are, as they should be, the subject of ridicule, and not the use of Croke park.

Cake Fiend · 20-02-2007 07:08PM

Ikky Poo2 wrote:

They are there because they are anti-brittish.

I don't think it's even that - they're there because they're scum looking for trouble, and they'll use any excuse whatsoever (although the anti-british excuse is the handiest and most popular one) to cause it.

lostexpectation · 20-02-2007 07:45PM

InFront wrote:

I don't agree that it was the intention, the use of Croke Park is simply because Lansdowne Road is being redeveloped. If it wasn't being redeveloped, there would be no need for it.

but its not being redeveloped for over a year ....

lansdowne is in perfect working order at the mo

Riot squad to be at Croker on Saturday

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