Media Trying to Stir the sh1t with Regard to England playing in Croke Park?

Mrs_Doyle · 13-02-2007 10:27AM #1

Did anyone see the 1 hour long, prime time, documentary on RTE 1 last night, about the England supporters causing chaos in Lansdowne road in 1995?

Did anyone see the two page spread in one of the Sunday World, headlined 'Brits to Say Sorry for Croker Massacre"?

The above are just two examples of the Media, IMO, stirring the sh1t.

Over the last couple of weeks, and the last few days in particular, I have noticed a hell of a lot of 'sensational' headlines and programming, hammering home the fact that England will indeed be playing in croke park.

We all know that England are due to play here, most of us have an opinion on it, one way or another, but the media, again, IMO, seem to be calling out to the scum element with their programming and headlines, taunting them, in a bid to ensure that the day does not pass without incident.

It is as if they are grooming the louts, telling them what they should be thinking and feeling, telling them how outraged they should be, and almost daring them to cause mayhem on the day, just so the media can be sure to milk the carnage for all its worth.

I realise that England playing in Croke Park is indeed a News worthy event, whatever my stance regarding the whole affair, it warrants coverage.
However, so far the majority of the coverage has been biased, has shown a very obvious agenda and seems to be created with the intent of generating a very real reaction from the public.

I believe that if there is trouble on the day, that the media will be responsible a fairly large percentage of it, but I am very curious to know what the rest of you think.

As my Dad pointed out, the rugby supporters themselves are a fairly decent crowd, not generally in the habit of causing trouble... but I don't believe for one moment that they will be the source of any chaos. If there is trouble, it will come from that same scum element (any excuse to run riot) that caused chaos at the 'Love Ulster' parade.

Mr. CooL ICE · 13-02-2007 10:35AM

I haven't been reading any tabloids lately, but quite frankly, I'm not surprised. And yes, if there is trouble, it won't be the visitors causing it

arybvtcw0eolkf · 13-02-2007 10:41AM

Mrs_Doyle wrote:

Did anyone see the 1 hour long, prime time, documentary on RTE 1 last night, about the England supporters causing chaos in Lansdowne road in 1995?

Did anyone see the two page spread in one of the Sunday World, headlined 'Brits to Say Sorry for Croker Massacre"?

The above are just two examples of the Media, IMO, stirring the sh1t.

How is presenting history "stirring sh1t"?.

Was it inaccurate?.

To be honest, the British have a terrible history in this country and alot of people can't forget/forgive it too easily.

As I said in a previous thread. I'll stand while the British athem is played (I've got tickets), I won't booooo. But I will remember.

Heyes · 13-02-2007 10:42AM

Good post Mrs Doyle, got to totally agree with you, I have heard a fair bit of banter going on about the Match and the history behind it, however i think most if not all are looking forward to a good match with a historic element, i dont believe anyone except the media is looking to have any agro or hassle at the match or on the day. I agree IF there is any incidents it wont be down to the players or the attendants at the match, it will only be from knackers who wana stir things up as they know the media is watching for a sniff of any story.

Here s to a good match, filled with good sport and respect for both teams.

county · 13-02-2007 10:43AM

the media and more so the newspapers would love it all to kick of at croke park,think of all the extra papers they would sell,personally i feel there might be a bit of booing to god save the queen but apart from that i cant see any(or much) trouble,definitely no riots,if it was a soccer match it would be a different ball game

Mrs_Doyle · 13-02-2007 10:46AM

Mairt wrote:

How is presenting history "stirring sh1t"?.

Was it inaccurate?.

To be honest, the British have a terrible history in this country and alot of people can't forget/forgive it too easily.

As I said in a previous thread. I'll stand while the British athem is played (I've got tickets), I won't booooo. But I will remember.

But you, I assume, are a gentleman.
The coverage, to you, perhaps was interpreted as no more then a factual, informative, entertaining piece of programming.

No one has asked you to forget, I wouldn't expect the people of this country to forget their history.

But it all boils down to interpretation, and the timing of that programming, which was undoubtedly sensational in parts, was, IMO, aired to fan flames.

arybvtcw0eolkf · 13-02-2007 10:54AM

Mrs_Doyle wrote:

But you, I assume, are a gentleman.
The coverage, to you, perhaps was interpreted as no more then a factual, informative, entertaining piece of programming.

No one has asked you to forget, I wouldn't expect the people of this country to forget their history.

But it all boils down to interpretation, and the timing of that programming, which was undoubtedly sensational in parts, was, IMO, aired to fan flames.

Yes, I like to think of myself as being a gentleman.

As regards the timing of the programme. If its accurately presented there's no better time and maybe it will educate the ignorant who just want to rant and rave about the British athem being played.

But, I won't stand on the Hogan stand, listen to the British Athem and not remember Micheal Hogan and the twelve supporter's murdered by British auxhillaries in November 1920. I might even feel alittle angry, but I won't boo and I won't let myself, the GAA, rugby or my country down.

Because I'm better than that.

MikeHoncho · 13-02-2007 10:56AM

There wont be any trouble from the rugby crowd at all. Despite the level of intensity and aggresion on the pitch rugby supporters are some of the most sporting and good natured fans around. They are more concerned with having a bit of craic with the opposition supporters than causing any trouble and their has never been any real need for segregation of supporters in rugby.

But I have heard rumblings that their will be pockets of scumbags in the surrounding area of Croke Park looking for any excuse to cause a bit of trouble. I really hope there isnt any trouble as all it will do is shed a bad light on this country. If we cant let go of the past how is this world ever expected to be a peacefull one? We can always remember but I think its about time we let go.

Mrs_Doyle · 13-02-2007 10:58AM

Mairt wrote:

As regards the timing of the programme. If its accurately presented there's no better time.....

Had they shown that documentary six months ago, or in six months time, they would not have been guaranteed half the ratings.
It WAS the right time to show it, for THEM, and no one else.

arybvtcw0eolkf · 13-02-2007 11:07AM

Mrs_Doyle wrote:

Had they shown that documentary six months ago, or in six months time, they would not have been guaranteed half the ratings.
It WAS the right time to show it, for THEM, and no one else.

So for doing their job, their wrong?.

You know what, I truely don't believe the present generation of British should be held responsible for the sin's of their father's. But I do think we and the British establishment should recognise Englands terrible history in Ireland, and maybe an apology at this time for Bloody Sunday (Nov. 20th 1920) would take the winds out of the sail's of those wishing to cause trouble.

But I don't expect trouble in the grounds. Maybe we'll have a few nutter's outside.

What I do expect is an Ireland win, and a great day for sport.

b3t4 · 13-02-2007 11:08AM

My only hope is that security and gardai are stepped up so as to prevent any trouble on the day. I'd prefer if the garda forces planned for trouble rather than a hope that nothing happens.

If they don't I feel there could be a repeat of what happened when the orange march came to Dublin.

A.

arybvtcw0eolkf · 13-02-2007 11:11AM

People keep comparing this with the 'Love Ulster' day riots, BULLSH1T!.

What else could we have expected on that day?.

'Love Ulster' and parading Orangemen in my country my arse.

Nalz · 13-02-2007 11:17AM

Mairt wrote:

People keep comparing this with the 'Love Ulster' day riots, BULLSH1T!.

What else could we have expected on that day?.

'Love Ulster' and parading Orangemen in my country my arse.

A part of me hates to say this but I agree with you

FlutterinBantam · 13-02-2007 11:20AM

Mairt wrote:

People keep comparing this with the 'Love Ulster' day riots, BULLSH1T!.

What else could we have expected on that day?.

'Love Ulster' and parading Orangemen in my country my arse.

They might have expected that Irish people would be sophisticated enough to ignore them and the whole thing would have gone off like a damp squib.

However the Neantherdahls, and those with no interest or stake in the country, were allowed to take over and throw common sense out the window.
The result is that we are still talking about it.

arybvtcw0eolkf · 13-02-2007 11:28AM

FlutterinBantam wrote:

They might have expected that Irish people would be sophisticated enough to ignore them and the whole thing would have gone off like a damp squib.

However the Neantherdahls, and those with no interest or stake in the country, were allowed to take over and throw common sense out the window.
The result is that we are still talking about it.

"common sense" was thrown out the window the moment the Orangemen were granted permission to march down here.

'Love Ulster' my arse (again).

I was dead set against the riots, but not for one moment was I surprised.

Anyway, thats another discussion. I'm saying its BS comparing the 'love ulster' riots with a rugby match.

Mrs_Doyle · 13-02-2007 11:36AM

Mairt wrote:

Anyway, thats another discussion. I'm saying its BS comparing the 'love ulster' riots with a rugby match.

There is a comparison because with the Love Ulster parade, it was not 'political' people protesting, it was a gang of scum bags who had nothing better to do that day and took the hype as an excuse to cause mayhem.

Those scum bags had no allegiance to anyone, or anything. They know very little about their country and its history, and short of picking up a few cliche comments they might have heard their auld lad saying down the pub, they have no political opinion or belief, one way or another.

The media promised trouble on the day, the media threw out sensational headline after sensational headline and little Deco thought to himself, "well if that's where the action is then that's where I'll be!"

If there is trouble when England play in Croke Park, and I sincerely hope that there isn't, it will be the very same scum bags who cause it for the very same reasons.

Nalz · 13-02-2007 12:01PM

Mrs_Doyle wrote:

If there is trouble when England play in Croke Park, and I sincerely hope that there isn't, it will be the very same scum bags who cause it for the very same reasons.

and you know this for a fact do you? I not saying that there is a group of scumbags who would jump at the chance to cause havok in Croker purely for no reason other than the love of thugary.... but takes two to tango, and if something is gonna blow off then I wouldnt be so sure as you as to who'll start it.

I agree that it was bad timing to show the 1995 incident last night, RTEs bad. But lets not point fingers yet eh?

Judt · 13-02-2007 12:03PM

Mairt wrote:

People keep comparing this with the 'Love Ulster' day riots, BULLSH1T!.

What else could we have expected on that day?.

'Love Ulster' and parading Orangemen in my country my arse.

I think the point is that if there is trouble, we might be moved to say the same thing. "Bloody English, coming to play in Dublin, what did you expect?" Orangemen I think we might just be able to get away with. But do it twice in the space of a year and we do look like a right bunch of surly... people.

As to the press coverage, of course they're talking it up. All about ratings at the end of the day. It's like media coverage of a celebrity scandal; they'll report on how the reporting is ruining somebody's life as if they're not a part of it.

seamus · 13-02-2007 12:10PM

Mairt wrote:

But, I won't stand on the Hogan stand, listen to the British Athem and not remember Micheal Hogan and the twelve supporter's murdered by British auxhillaries in November 1920. I might even feel alittle angry

Can I ask why? You weren't there. In fact, nobody who will be in Croke Park on the day of the match was there in 1920. Nobody involved will have taken part in, or otherwise done anything which in anyway had anything to do with the shootings in Croke Park in 1920.

So what will you be angry about? I don't see anyone laughing about it, making a joke of it, or otherwise saying that it was anything other than a horrific murder by some scumbags in uniforms nearly 100 years ago. It's a bit like getting angry about Cromwell, or about Wolfe Tone. It's part of our history, but it's just that. History. There's no-one alive to answer for those crimes, so why get angry or worked up about them?

FlutterinBantam · 13-02-2007 12:17PM

Surely the time has come,when we have enough confidence in ourselves to behave in a pragmatic and common sense matter when events like the English game occur.

The ordinary man and woman in the street has to cop on and sophistication to understand that the people who come to compete with us on equal footing today are way removed from from what happened almost a century ago.

Of course we must not forget,but for goodness sake let's be grown up enough not to spoil the occasion with stupidity and hooliganism.

Remember it is usually those with no allegiance or stake in the country who perpretrate these outbreaks of civil unrest.

Let those of us who have,tell these scumbags to f**k off!!

The_B_Man · 13-02-2007 01:14PM

surely ur not suggesting we forget it ever happened? i'd be a betrayal to the people who gave us this country we live in now, to forget it happened and not awknowledge it in some way. Seamus was saying that nobody will be there sunday week that was there in 1920. that doesnt really come into it. firstly because its POSSIBLE (note: POSSIBLE) for that situation to have arisen as it was 86 years ago. not above our life span. also, none of us were there for bloody sunday, sure lets forget that happened too! WW2! etc etc...

This is a collection of milestones in Irish history. We can awknowledge that, but should we ignore the actual reason WHY this match is historic?

some sort of gesture needs to be made. We, as a people, need to show we remember, and respect, our ancestors. The bottom of the list is boing the english anthem, but other gestures to deflate any "hatred" would be laying the wreath, or an apology. Its 100% impossible this match can go ahead without some sort of action being taken. either booing or wreath/apology/other.

im not the type to be advocating booing, as its the current population of england that may take it as being against them, but thats not how it will be. Its a way of expressing the respect we have for our predecessors in the Croke Park stands, and, in unison, booing the events of what happened in 1920, ie that we think bloody sunday 1920 was wrong.

people are worried that others may get offended, but we shouldnt be worried about that, if it means we disrespect our own past.

scojones · 13-02-2007 01:34PM

The_B_Man wrote:

surely ur not suggesting we forget it ever happened? i'd be a betrayal to the people who gave us this country we live in now, to forget it happened and not awknowledge it in some way. Seamus was saying that nobody will be there sunday week that was there in 1920. that doesnt really come into it. firstly because its POSSIBLE (note: POSSIBLE) for that situation to have arisen as it was 86 years ago. not above our life span. also, none of us were there for bloody sunday, sure lets forget that happened too! WW2! etc etc...

This is a collection of milestones in Irish history. We can awknowledge that, but should we ignore the actual reason WHY this match is historic?

some sort of gesture needs to be made. We, as a people, need to show we remember, and respect, our ancestors. The bottom of the list is boing the english anthem, but other gestures to deflate any "hatred" would be laying the wreath, or an apology. Its 100% impossible this match can go ahead without some sort of action being taken. either booing or wreath/apology/other.

im not the type to be advocating booing, as its the current population of england that may take it as being against them, but thats not how it will be. Its a way of expressing the respect we have for our predecessors in the Croke Park stands, and, in unison, booing the events of what happened in 1920, ie that we think bloody sunday 1920 was wrong.

people are worried that others may get offended, but we shouldnt be worried about that, if it means we disrespect our own past.

Oh come on, it's obvious he didn't literally mean FORGET IT. Acknowledge it yes, but get over it. Christ, it was so long ago, it doesn't matter. In fairness, we speak their language, some of us work along side them every day, we watch their TV shows, visit their country, watch and play their sports. We are now living in 2007, what they did to us is in the past. Don't be an ignortant racist. You people need to learn to move on. Holding a grudge will do nothing. What do you want from the people of England now? An apology? Why should they apologise, when they have absolutely nothing to apologise for? Get over it, life is too short for this kind of crap. <insert smiley throwing eyes up to heaven> x 100.

Judt · 13-02-2007 01:35PM

I've said it elsewhere, and I'll say it here: It's about why we want the apology, and in all honesty I think it's simply because we like to beat the English around with our big green stick at every available opportunity. That's no good reason to ask for an apology, especially considering that England and the UK as a whole tends to bend over backwards for the Republic of Ireland these days. That same British military that did in 14 people 80 years ago will today happily defend the island of Ireland. You don't think we owned those aircraft patrolling our skies on September 12th 2001?

We're economically dependent on the UK, and they on us. There's more Irish living, working, marrying and raising families in the UK than anywhere else in the world. And meanwhile back in the motherland we can't seem to get over every chance to work ourselves up into a fuming fury.

I'll keep saying it: What have the Romans ever done for us?

arybvtcw0eolkf · 13-02-2007 01:55PM

sjones wrote:

Don't be an ignortant racist.

When all else fails, use the R word!.

:rolleyes:

slipss · 13-02-2007 02:09PM

Mrs_Doyle wrote:

Did anyone see the 1 hour long, prime time, documentary on RTE 1 last night, about the England supporters causing chaos in Lansdowne road in 1995?

Did anyone see the two page spread in one of the Sunday World, headlined 'Brits to Say Sorry for Croker Massacre"?

The above are just two examples of the Media, IMO, stirring the sh1t.

Over the last couple of weeks, and the last few days in particular, I have noticed a hell of a lot of 'sensational' headlines and programming, hammering home the fact that England will indeed be playing in croke park.

We all know that England are due to play here, most of us have an opinion on it, one way or another, but the media, again, IMO, seem to be calling out to the scum element with their programming and headlines, taunting them, in a bid to ensure that the day does not pass without incident.

It is as if they are grooming the louts, telling them what they should be thinking and feeling, telling them how outraged they should be, and almost daring them to cause mayhem on the day, just so the media can be sure to milk the carnage for all its worth.

I realise that England playing in Croke Park is indeed a News worthy event, whatever my stance regarding the whole affair, it warrants coverage.
However, so far the majority of the coverage has been biased, has shown a very obvious agenda and seems to be created with the intent of generating a very real reaction from the public.

I believe that if there is trouble on the day, that the media will be responsible a fairly large percentage of it, but I am very curious to know what the rest of you think.

As my Dad pointed out, the rugby supporters themselves are a fairly decent crowd, not generally in the habit of causing trouble... but I don't believe for one moment that they will be the source of any chaos. If there is trouble, it will come from that same scum element (any excuse to run riot) that caused chaos at the 'Love Ulster' parade.

I kind of see what you are saying but I mean what did you expect the media to do? How on earth could they talk about England playing Ireland in Croke Park with out mentioning bloody sunday. Are they suposed to just pretend it didn't happen. "Don't mention bloody sunday, I kind of mentioned it once but I think I got away with it". Do you think the English wouldn't mention the war if they were playing Germany in a stadium for the first time that the lufftewaffe bombed? Of course they would because it relates to the history of both countries, aswell as the history of the stadium.

The same with the match in Lansdown in '95. Its a recent example of England playing an international against Ireland in Ireland. Fair enough it was football not rugby and there have been rugby matches without major incident since, but of course the media are going to mention it. Frankly it would be a bit odd if they didn't mention it. Your whole post reads a bit like a bad Faulty Towers episode.

You say "I believe that if there is trouble on the day, that the media will be responsible a fairly large percentage of it, but I am very curious to know what the rest of you think." Well no of course I don't think the media will be responsible for someone punching someone else in the face or throwing a rock at an opposing fan. I think the person that throws the punch or the rock will be wholey responsible for their actions.

ROCKMAN · 13-02-2007 02:20PM

Its 2099 Ireland are playing in England (london,guilford etc) and the english people want an apology from the Irish (sein fein) government/Irish people because of historical atrocities committed by a handful of people (uniformed or not )

Hmmmmmm

How do my great grand kids feel........................

scojones · 13-02-2007 02:37PM

Mairt wrote:

When all else fails, use the R word!.

:rolleyes:

Mairt, this is the last time I will warn you on After Hours. Attempt to troll or bait me and I will send your ass packing. If you don't have anything to add to this debate, don't bother posting in here.

seamus · 13-02-2007 03:00PM

The_B_Man wrote:

surely ur not suggesting we forget it ever happened? i'd be a betrayal to the people who gave us this country we live in now, to forget it happened and not awknowledge it in some way.

I never said forget about it. Forgetting about such things just leaves the door open to make the same mistakes again. But I don't see the point in getting all worked up about it.

World War 2 happened, but I don't see a need for anyone to get all angry about it. Remember the dead, remember those who fought, and remember the mistakes that were made. But do we need to hate the Germans?

Would you get angry if the German national anthem was played in Croke Park? Why not? More Irish died in World War 2 than during the entire Irish independence stuggle. You don't get angry because it's not the same country that committed all of those atrocities. The UK of today is not the same country that colonised us. The UK of today is not the same country that put the B&T's there in the first place. More importantly, we are not the same country on whom these atrocities were committed.

People need to recognise this and move on, rather than fight for a cause which was won long ago and for which there is no-one left to fight.

5starpool · 13-02-2007 03:10PM

The media should be ashamed of themselves. They are just appealing to the lowest common denominator by trying to sensationalise an event which should be relatively unremarkable. It is a rugby match being played a mere handful of miles from where it would normally be played. The fact that it is in the location where a disgraceful incident happened (only one of a number of disgraceful incidents of the last century committed by many camps) shouldn't provoke much controversy at all.

The idiots who look for any excuse to cause trouble are getting their Celtic jerseys ready as we speak and will be hanging round trying to disgrace this country. If people would just grow up and realise that we are not in a war any more, that England is not our enemy any more, and that while our history is not something to be ashamed of, it is not something that should be used as an excuse for violent assholes to cause trouble whenever they are 'outraged'.

pbsuxok1znja4r · 13-02-2007 04:26PM

county wrote:

if it was a soccer match it would be a different ball game

Lawl

the B man wrote:

im not the type to be advocating booing, as its the current population of england that may take it as being against them, but thats not how it will be. Its a way of expressing the respect we have for our predecessors in the Croke Park stands, and, in unison, booing the events of what happened in 1920, ie that we think bloody sunday 1920 was wrong.

This is ridiculous, how is booing the English national anthem at a rugby match in 2007 going to somehow translate into a booing of the events of 1920? Boo effing hoo, I say. Get over it.

people are worried that others may get offended, but we shouldnt be worried about that, if it means we disrespect our own past.

Nonsense. It's not my past. I'm pretty sure it's not your past either. So the only way we can avoid 'disrespecting' 'our' past is by dredging it up at every irrelevant opportunity and channeling it into negative, anti-english behaviour?

Don't you you think our glorious ancestors (whom we should be sure to honour at every turn :rolleyes:) wanted the kind of country where the population wouldn't have to hate their nearest neighbours?

K-9 · 13-02-2007 08:27PM

On the Love Ulster rights, theres been a march in Rossnowlagh in Donegal every year for years and no bother. Where I come from in Donegal it's a quite mixed community. There's a march here on the 12th July and the 5th August every year. People respect it and get on with there lives.

The reason Croke Park wasn't opened before was because they majority of Northern members of the organisation didn't want it opened. The vote 5 years lost because of this. 2 years ago 75% voted for it because they felt the time was right. This was more a Northern issue than the 1920 issue. The GAA had to go on what the democratic decision of the organisation was.

GSTQ will irk with me. That's because of the minority in soccer use at as a triumphalist, sectarian war song. The National Front element. Then again I'll respect it. U can't blame a a whole country for the mistakes of a minority. Nobody would come to Ireland if that was the case.

Bloody Sunday will always be remembered as long as the Hogan Stand is there and the GAA have a right to remember it. But they have moved on as well. I heard that tickets for Hill 16 where called The Northern End for some of the matches coming up. I hope that isn't the case. We should be able to respect our own traditions the same as other people's.

On the apology, I think Tony Blair did issue an apology for the Bloody Sunday in Derry. So why not 1920?

Media Trying to Stir the sh1t with Regard to England playing in Croke Park?

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