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Should boy racers kill themselves?

13

Comments

  • #62
    Duff
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,600 ✭✭✭Duff


    padi89 wrote:
    Can you tell me the difference because IMO its a cop out to say there is a difference.Car modifiers go to cruises ,which results in ****e hawking around in cars and causing a general nuisance , now dont talk ****e.


    Talking ****e?? as far as i can tell your the only one talkin through your arse, there is a huge difference, car modifiers, real car modifiers not wee knackers who stick cheap bits of plastic to their car are people who often spend thousands on their car to make it stand out from the norm, Its a hobby for these people and if they want to spend money to make their car look differnt let them.
    These arent the people rallying around the roads, what would be the point in them spending thousands on a car just to wrap it around a pole? so get a clue and stop having the naive opinion that they are all the same..


  • #63
    Stark
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 21,377 ✭✭✭✭Stark


    Boy racers are just idiots. Their horrible cars offend my eyes and my ears but I sometimes wonder if they're any more dangerous that many other drivers on the road. At least boy racers seem somewhat aware of themselves compared to your average **** driver who wouldn't know if they caused an accident because they wouldn't have been looking. They also tend to calm down when they hit 25 and the buzz wears off as opposed to men racers who think they'll always have a god given right to drive fast and aggressively as they drive an expensive car.

    Joyriders on the other hand: Why oh why are more of them not writing themselves off? The little ****s are made of rubber.


  • #64
    Calina
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,219 ✭✭✭Calina


    I know this is AH but still....

    If we collectively did a better job on a) training drivers and b) enforcing existing legislation, it really wouldn't matter so much right? Am I mistaken in thinking that there are limits to the amount of noise a car is allowed to make? And how fast you're allowed drive?

    I really couldn't care less if some kid wants to paint his granny's ex Nissan Micra (1991) purple metallic, paint a white stripe down the middle to make it look like even more kewl and stick a spoiler that's eight times the height of a double decker bus, and play a load of dnb with the bass maxed up on his ICE if he's driving responsibly.

    If they are not driving responsibly, do what other civilised countries do. Take their licences off them and make them retake their driving test at the end of their ban. And don't let them drive in the meantime.

    I take issue with the idea that they are the only thoughtless idiots driving, though. Has no one seriously seen a BMW or an SUV overtaking on a double white line on the main road from Dublin to Limerick? I mean I can't really estimate people's speed as a general rule, but if I'm doing 100kph, then I assume that a car that looks like it's travelling twice as fast as I am has to be doing a bit more than 100kph.


  • #65
    gyppo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,649 ✭✭✭gyppo


    Whats a Boy Racer??

    Is it something like this??
    Lorax wrote:
    Whats gonna happen?

    Tonight I pulled in to the hard shoulder on the n3 where the limit is 100km/h to try something ( my friend was recording my speedometer with my camera phone ) anyway, was just testing the 0-60mph on my car.. so pulled out and started revving, got to 60mph in 2nd gear and only went slightly over the limit maybe, 102km/h or smething..


    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055049144


  • #66
    ExoduS 18.11
    Closed Accounts Posts: 450 ✭✭ExoduS 18.11


    Being honest this thread has got to be one of the worst i've come across here in a long time. This generalisation is just to suit your bitching, "Oh well whats the point in doing up an old car and blah blah blah" basically the point been put across is , if you like to do have a hobby involving cars, you're a speeding, "no fear" knacker who wears a cap.. The wearing of the cap really makes laugh. My family have been left an old VW van, which i plan to restore and have road worthy farely soon. I plan to mod it slightly to what I, the owner of the vehicle, wants it to look like. Not to suit anyone elses taste. Now if that includes a nice pair of alloys or a nice paint job, i'll put them on it. I agree that some people , a small percentage of car modders, do up pieces of crap by throwin on stickers etc. But alot of people like to modify cars and bring them to track days, which is completely legal. This whole "boy-racer" race is getting kind of old. I see there is alot of people here who mod cars professionally and have alot of pride in their hard work. Maybe people should respect peoples choice to modify cars, instead of blasting them for having a hobby.


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  • #67
    Rb
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,277 ✭✭✭✭Rb


    gyppo wrote:
    Whats a Boy Racer??

    Is it something like this??




    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055049144
    Lol! Good find. Lets all forget every point Lorax has made, and all that they will from here on in. F*cking boy racers.


  • #68
    Rb
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,277 ✭✭✭✭Rb


    ExoduS 18.11 wrote:
    a small percentage of car modders, do up pieces of crap by throwin on stickers etc.

    Small %?! In this country its like 98%, its very, very rare that you'd come across a well modified (and decent) car here. 2% are well done, 98% are absolute crap, bangers that the owners wish were proper cars so have stuck random crap onto it and now drive around thinking their 1.2 Punto is the shít 'cause it has a big exhast and a modified spoiler and they've put in a dump valve (LOL) to give it the whole "rally car" sound.
    Tossers.


  • #69
    arybvtcw0eolkf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 24,608 ✭✭✭✭arybvtcw0eolkf


    gyppo wrote:
    Whats a Boy Racer??

    Is it something like this??




    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055049144


    Excellent!.


  • #70
    arybvtcw0eolkf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 24,608 ✭✭✭✭arybvtcw0eolkf


    ando wrote:
    yea boy racers ARE tossers I know that but "illegal to modify car's"... there we go again. Do you have any first hand experience with communicating with proper modifiers? Did you ever see a 1970's Porsche being restored and modified back to running order? Did you ever see an old style VW Beatle being modified so that a powerful engine could be installed and the car converted to rear wheel drive....

    What your saying is like saying all blacks are robbing bastards, the generalization is really annoying

    Sounds like your talking about RESTORING old 'CLASSIC' car's.

    We're talking about dressing up banger's by headbangers!.


  • #71
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 3,620 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    rb_ie wrote:
    Small %?! In this country its like 98%, its very, very rare that you'd come across a well modified (and decent) car here. 2% are well done, 98% are absolute crap, bangers that the owners wish were proper cars so have stuck random crap onto it and now drive around thinking their 1.2 Punto is the shít 'cause it has a big exhast and a modified spoiler and they've put in a dump valve (LOL) to give it the whole "rally car" sound.
    Tossers.

    You really don't have a clue what you are talking about.
    You can't put a "dump valve" on a punto.
    Stop it, you are embarassing yourself.


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  • #72
    User45701
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,905 ✭✭✭User45701


    Ye there should be more options but i don't care if they die or not i just don't like them distracting me there cars make allot of noise and i hear music from them even with the windows closed :eek:


  • #73
    thebaz
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,227 ✭✭✭✭thebaz


    They should be just banned from the road for 10 years, or forced to accept 5 grand for car insurance .Cause of there stupid and pathetic lifestyle, the rest of the road users are forced to accept draconian car insurance costs, and laws , that prohibit driving at reasonable speeds , and a system that punishes the majority , when it is only a small minority causing the carnage on our roads . Typical Irish solution, lets punish everyone , instead of coming down hard on the small group that are really responsible for the majority of major accidents on our roads .


  • #74
    Stark
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 21,377 ✭✭✭✭Stark


    thebaz wrote:
    Typical Irish solution, lets punish everyone , instead of coming down hard on the small group that are really responsible for the majority of major accidents on our roads .

    Do you have anything to back up the claim that boy racers are the ones responsible for the majority of major accidents? Because from what I can tell by reading the regular death announcements on rtenews.ie and the like, it's people of all ages and genders who are wrapping themselves round trees etc.


  • #75
    Raiser
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,930 ✭✭✭Raiser


    Seems to me that these Boy Racer cretins are, like smoking causing unecessary deaths while being barely disguised as a common leisure activity..........

    .........Therefore it follows that they should be forced by law to carry a clear text warning on the outside to inform the public at large of the associated dangers

    I suggest:

    WARNING ! THE DRIVER OF THIS MAMMYS RUNABOUT SPRAYED DAY-GLO GREEN WITH BITS FROM REAL CARS SUPER-GLUED ON AND THE WINDOWS PAINTED BLACK WITH HAMMERITE SUFFERS FROM SMALL-PENIS MID PUBESCENT ANGST. FOR YOUR OWN SAFETY PLEASE AVOID UNTIL HE INEVITABLY CRASHES INTO THE ONLY WALL IN THE NEIGHBOURHOOD AND HOPEFULLY SELF-PRUNES HIS MISERABLE BRANCH OF THE FAMILY TREE.


  • #76
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 3,620 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Stark wrote:
    Do you have anything to back up the claim that boy racers are the ones responsible for the majority of major accidents? Because from what I can tell by reading the regular death announcements on rtenews.ie and the like, it's people of all ages and genders who are wrapping themselves round trees etc.

    Young males unfortunatly do make up a high percentage of road deaths.

    But I don't know where people are getting these "boy racers are causing all the crashes" statements from. There are no statistics to support this other than labeling all young males who die on the road as boy racers.

    Which is bollocks to be honest.


  • #77
    Archeron
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 6,821 ✭✭✭Archeron


    Of course, if all boy racers went and killed themselves, that would leave the roads free and safe for all those other fantastic drivers out there who drive so safely and never pose risks to life and limb. Speeding muck trucks on backroads, high spec touring cars and such like who think they own the road, 4x4 mummies on mobile phones, ditzy young men and women in their NON suped up cars who havent a clue how to drive, white van men tailgating everyone in sight and so on and so on.

    Yes, without boy racers the roads in Ireland would be so much safer.........


  • #78
    thebaz
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,227 ✭✭✭✭thebaz


    ronoc wrote:
    Young males unfortunatly do make up a high percentage of road deaths.

    But I don't know where people are getting these "boy racers are causing all the crashes" statements from. There are no statistics to support this other than labeling all young males who die on the road as boy racers.

    Which is bollocks to be honest.

    No its not just boy racers , those not holding a full Irish driving licenses also make up high a proportion of road fatalities. The majority , guestimate -- 80% of road users, are decent drivers who may do a little over the speed limit at times, when it is safe, but are forced to accept nanny state laws , cause of a wreckless minority.
    And yes, there is a big difference to a boy racer doing 80 plus in a built up residential area , than someone doing 10 or 20 k over the speed limit on a deserted motorway. Hardly needs explaining !


  • #79
    Stark
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 21,377 ✭✭✭✭Stark


    They should give full licences to everyone, we could wipe out road deaths due to provisional licence holders overnight. Then everyone could have a tipple down the local and drive home at 160km/hr on the motorways without seatbelts while having a chat to their friends on their handheld mobiles.


  • #80
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 3,620 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Stark wrote:
    They should give full licences to everyone, we could wipe out road deaths due to provisional licence holders overnight. Then everyone could have a tipple down the local and drive home at 160km/hr on the motorways without seatbelts while having a chat to their friends on their handheld mobiles.

    All while ghost riding the whip:cool:


  • #81
    ScumLord
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 28,787 ✭✭✭✭ScumLord


    As far as I'm concerned this is just another case of Irish people being told what to do. The media tell you to hate anyone with an interest in cars so you do. Sure most the "modified cars" out there are laughable and about as modified as a completed sticker book but sure they have to start somewhere.

    It's a hobby and if insurance wasn't so high I'm sure there would be places where they could go (like in most other countrys) where they could do all their boy racer antics without disturbing the general public but as with most things in this country instead of providing for it's citizens the government preffer to villanise them so they don't have have to do anything.

    There's nothing worng with modifing cars or wanting to drive fast as long as it's not done in public places.


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  • #82
    arybvtcw0eolkf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 24,608 ✭✭✭✭arybvtcw0eolkf


    ronoc wrote:
    You really don't have a clue what you are talking about.
    You can't put a "dump valve" on a punto.
    Stop it, you are embarassing yourself.


    But you can put a Punto in a dump!.


  • #83
    User45701
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,905 ✭✭✭User45701


    ScumLord wrote:
    As far as I'm concerned this is just another case of Irish people being told what to do. The media tell you to hate anyone with an interest in cars so you do. Sure most the "modified cars" out there are laughable and about as modified as a completed sticker book but sure they have to start somewhere.

    It's a hobby and if insurance wasn't so high I'm sure there would be places where they could go (like in most other countrys) where they could do all their boy racer antics without disturbing the general public but as with most things in this country instead of providing for it's citizens the government preffer to villanise them so they don't have have to do anything.

    There's nothing worng with modifing cars or wanting to drive fast as long as it's not done in public places.

    I dont have a problem with someone who has a interest in cars i just think its laughable and also embarrassing to be in a car with a boy racer,They (boi racers) just seem so immature.
    It was like when i was in the FCA/RDF, some people where there for fun others like me where to learn combat and others where there to "play soldier" it was so funny they all tried to act like there fav char from whatever movie and they devoted themselves fully to the most pointless things that made so sense and did not increase combat skills or any skills for that matter. They also went madd on the whole Yes sir no sir thing, from what i could gather in conversation most of them had some "hero" who they loved from whatever movie and they where playing into that role.

    The point of that is i think the boy racers see things like fast a furious and maybe they think if they drive fast and well they will get women and win races and live the "savage" life.

    As i said i also dont like the music level but thats not as bad as those lowed mopeds that allot of people drive.

    Actually what i hate is all those pointless things like a "wheel spin" or em well i dont know what the other stuff is, oh i thought of one a "hand breaker" you know anything that is not stop/start/fast/slow i dont see what other use a car can have in a country like this unless you are involved in either law enforcement or illegal dealings.


  • #84
    ScumLord
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 28,787 ✭✭✭✭ScumLord


    There are two examples of modified cars in my town. One is an old Opel Astra (early nineties) all done up with new bumpers and spoilers, in fairness it's looking allot better than it used to but it's still not the kind of car that deserves to be made up. The other is a fiat something or other that actually has an engine to be proud of and allot of money has gone into it although it's very suttle and you'd probably have to know cars to know that it's that much different from a regular version. It looks good though.
    The point of that is i think the boy racers see things like fast a furious and maybe they think if they drive fast and well they will get women and win races and live the "savage" life.
    That's kids for ya, they grow out of it eventually.

    Ah don't say there's no point in a cool car, some are works of engineering genius verging on art.

    I'm guilty of wheelspining a bit, I don't mean to but it's kinda hard to find the right amount of gas, it just loves to spin it's wheels.


  • #85
    layke
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,956 ✭✭✭layke


    I'm 25 and drive a 1.6 Civic modded to bitsies.

    My next car will be an Integra Type R which I plan to mod to bits as well.
    Just a few things i'd like to say :

    rb_ie wrote:
    Lol! Not in this country, 90% of the modified cars you see going around are ****ty granny mobiles with things stuck onto them and absolute knackers driving them.

    That's because the skanery knacker cars are the most done up with loud loud loud exhausts strapped to the car for all the wrong reasons. These are the most noticable you'll see on the streets.
    rb_ie wrote:
    Yeah, the skanky knackers that go to their little meetings in car parks are really worth the money they invest in the cars ;)

    You wouldn't catch a girl with a bit of class about her sitting in one of these modified bangers or attending the meets.
    [/quone]

    I used to go to meets in car parks and the like, it was always kept quiet for fear of the wrong sort showing up.
    rb_ie wrote:
    Chances are he'll be an absolute knacker so he might feel the need to start throwing digs (since they're knackers afterall).

    I'm a knacker? BUT I WENT TO A POSH PRIVATE SCHOOL! :eek:

    Puh'lease accept me into your esteemed community so I don't have to rub noses with the commoners.
    rb_ie wrote:
    Modified cars in this country are an absolute joke, 90% of them look like complete shít driven by attention starved shams. I've seen PLENTY of these guys racing on public roads, driving dangerously etc. Saying that the majority of them are safe, careful drivers is an absolute lie.

    Seen a few myself, but that said i've seen a lot that are not modded.
    rb_ie wrote:
    It doesn't really matter anyway, as I said, the majority of them are chavs so our paths very rarely cross but it has to be said, if I happened to come across a crashed modified car, wrapped around a poll perhaps, I'd point and laugh.

    I couldn't give a f*ck if I seem to be generalising here, I know a massive amount of Impreza/other GOOD cars drivers in this country and the overwhelming majority of them stay well clear of these idiots. Some will have engine mods, but they don't tackily decorate their cars with crap accessories and then drive around thinking they're the shít.

    While I think there is a point where you just need to stop, a lot of people do end up with some really nice cars. Mine has 17" alloys, side skirts, slightly larger spoiler and a front lip. The boot has been isoponed in and reg plate moved to the left of the bumper.
    rb_ie wrote:
    In general, Boy racers are idiots, and deserve absolutely anything that happens to them, be it paralysis or death.I don't care if they want to race, as long as its not on public/busy roads.

    Nice guy.
    ciaran76 wrote:
    I can understand people wanting to adust their cars as its a hobby etc etc.

    But why do some people need to put a huge exhaust on a 1L Micra/Starlet/Fiesta/Punto etc etc ?
    That really annoys me for some reason.

    Because these people do it for the wrong reason. The sound. Where as a true modder will go for the best performance exhaust. such an exhaust on a small car like those listed would make little to no difference. Personally I never got that one myself.
    padi89 wrote:
    Ha ha yeah mate the pram pusher type skangers that shop in lifestyle sports.The "girls" (and thats all they are) are as tacky and have as much class as the **** buckets they are sitting in.
    I think its quiet a load of ****e that you said not all boyracers drive recklessly, that may be true but MAJORITY do, even the ones that claim they dont because they spend so much money on their car ,pfffft.:rolleyes:

    Lies, what about groups like Manic Motorz? Who try to work with the guards and TD's when organizing events and track days.
    Spanky-s wrote:
    Boy racer: A person who drives with no consideration for other fellow drivers on the public road with no skill in knowing their distances and braking abilities and will also make sure to know what music tune they are playing.

    Your forgot the boy part, indicating the driver is a young male. Which is the original meaning.

    All in all the modded car scene is not nearly as black and white as some posters paint it. It's quite simple, the joyriders, skanger-me-bangers out there are the ones you hear about. A LOT of people who are far better drivers on the road then you or I are part of these groups. But because they don't go round corners on two wheels.

    As for the comment on 1L cars. Well what's better, a 1.6L with ABS brakes and a wide wheel base or a 1l with ****e brakes and a wheel base you could skate across ice with? Slap 4 or 5 mates in a 1L and go round a corner too fast and see what happens.
    padi89 wrote:
    Can you tell me the difference because IMO its a cop out to say there is a difference.Car modifiers go to cruises ,which results in ****e hawking around in cars and causing a general nuisance , now dont talk ****e.

    This is kind of reworded from a recent post in the motors forum :

    Yes, we organise cruises with people we know who don't act like a knob, but where ever you go some ejit will see your cars and drive in to have a look. Then call their idiot mates and in a half hour your fleeing the area because there's a few d**ks wheel spinning and handbraking and the guards have arrived following complaints. Hence the reason the guards are informed of most meets.


  • #86
    Rb
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,277 ✭✭✭✭Rb


    ronoc wrote:
    You really don't have a clue what you are talking about.
    You can't put a "dump valve" on a punto.
    Stop it, you are embarassing yourself.
    Pffft, do I really give a shít what can and can't be put on a punto? No, I don't. But I've seen those shíte looking starlets with dump valves, same shít car, it just *sounds* like a rally car. As I said, I couldn't really give a flying f*ck about the technicalities.


  • #87
    Rb
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,277 ✭✭✭✭Rb


    layke wrote:

    That's because the skanery knacker cars are the most done up with loud loud loud exhausts strapped to the car for all the wrong reasons. These are the most noticable you'll see on the streets.

    This is true, and they certainly are the most noticable, which has probably lead me to believe that these are the majority. I have seen some well modified cars, which happened to be performance cars too (supras, skylines etc). I can appreciate those cars and their modifications, they actually are proper cars like and the modification of its exterior isn't to pretend its something its not. However, its rare you see these cars, but they're generally not involved with the gobshítes doing wheel spins in car parks at these "meets".
    layke wrote:
    I used to go to meets in car parks and the like, it was always kept quiet for fear of the wrong sort showing up.

    Yeah but in all honesty, "meets" like these are going to attract the wrong type, no matter what. Especially seeing as some of the cars engines can be heard a few miles off!
    layke wrote:
    I'm a knacker? BUT I WENT TO A POSH PRIVATE SCHOOL! :eek:

    Come on now, even HSD had its knackers :p

    I'd know, I went there too.

    Nah, not all modifers are knackers, but as I said, the majority you see on the roads are the skangers with the shít mods done "for the wrong reason".
    layke wrote:

    Puh'lease accept me into your esteemed community so I don't have to rub noses with the commoners.

    I'm afraid you'll have to take off all the add-ons to your car to be accepted :D
    layke wrote:
    While I think there is a point where you just need to stop, a lot of people do end up with some really nice cars. Mine has 17" alloys, side skirts, slightly larger spoiler and a front lip. The boot has been isoponed in and reg plate moved to the left of the bumper.

    Oh, no doubt that some of the cars can end up really nice, I'm just under the impression that the majority (in Ireland anyway) are done badly, look crap and are driven with knackers with small dicks (that is the presumption anyway).
    I've seen some really well done cars here, but I don't often see them on our roads, I just see these shít buckets most of the time.
    layke wrote:
    Nice guy.

    Well, if you want to race on our public roads, endangering not only your own life, but everyone else on the roads and perhaps the public who are not in cars, then I certainly do believe that should you wrap yourself around a poll and end up paralysed from the neck down or dead, that you totally deserve it.

    layke wrote:
    This is kind of reworded from a recent post in the motors forum :

    Yes, we organise cruises with people we know who don't act like a knob, but where ever you go some ejit will see your cars and drive in to have a look. Then call their idiot mates and in a half hour your fleeing the area because there's a few d**ks wheel spinning and handbraking and the guards have arrived following complaints. Hence the reason the guards are informed of most meets.

    How come you can't just tell the idiots to f*ck off?


  • #88
    gyppo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,649 ✭✭✭gyppo


    ronoc wrote:
    You really don't have a clue what you are talking about.
    You can't put a "dump valve" on a punto.
    Stop it, you are embarassing yourself.

    Like another poster already stated, I really could'nt give a **** either what you can/can't put on a punto.
    However, before you dismiss other peoples apparent lack of knowledge on these matters, maybe you should try and be a little more correct in your statement.
    You can put a dump valve on most turbo driven petrol cars, which does include the punto GT variant. Plenty to be bought online.


  • #89
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 3,620 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    gyppo wrote:
    Like another poster already stated, I really could'nt give a **** either what you can/can't put on a punto.
    However, before you dismiss other peoples apparent lack of knowledge on these matters, maybe you should try and be a little more correct in your statement.
    You can put a dump valve on most turbo driven petrol cars, which does include the punto GT variant. Plenty to be bought online.

    Could you be any more pedantic.. For someone who "couldn't give a ****" you know an awful lot about it.

    But yes you are correct most turbo charged cars can be given a dump valve.

    There ainnt too many Punto GTs around so my point stands.


  • #90
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 3,620 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    rb_ie wrote:
    Pffft, do I really give a shít what can and can't be put on a punto? No, I don't. But I've seen those shíte looking starlets with dump valves, same shít car, it just *sounds* like a rally car. As I said, I couldn't really give a flying f*ck about the technicalities.

    Technicalities like having no point what so ever?

    Do dump valves annoy you? I'm not sure what you are so annoyed about :confused:


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  • #91
    Rb
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,277 ✭✭✭✭Rb


    ronoc wrote:
    Technicalities like having no point what so ever?

    Do dump valves annoy you? I'm not sure what you are so annoyed about :confused:
    No point?Wtf?Are you drunk or something?

    Its clear what my point was, I may have been wrong on a technicality (which, as I said, I could give less of a f*ck about), but the point remains.


This discussion has been closed.
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