Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie
Help Keep Boards Alive. Support us by going ad free today. See here: https://subscriptions.boards.ie/

Something everyone should be aware of...

2456

Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,859 ✭✭✭✭cormie


    Futureman wrote:
    Eh, you showed me a video of somewhere in California, and told me that's where all my milk comes from, when it clearly doesn't - that does in fact make you an idiot.

    Listen boss, don't take things so literally, I'm sure when you were sitting in front of The Simpsons watching Mr Fuzzy Bunny go at it with Fluffy bunny, you didn't start to question if you and you siblings were all bunnies. It's the same process. I'm not saying the milk in your coco pops this morning was imported from California, I'm saying, because it's a business, and people want to profit as much as possible, it's probable the same process is taken to fill up all those milk trucks morning after morning.

    The first video was just an intro really.

    Anyway, as I've said, I'm just posting these to let people be aware of what goes on. I don't have all the facts, I don't know the extent it goes on over here but when people are in business in such an area, I'm sure they don't tend to care in the first place.

    There is a reason a Tesco Value chicken is €4 and the same size chicken that is organically fed and let wander on open pasture is about 4 times the price at about €16. Where do you think that price cut comes from? Mass production I reckon.

    This thread isn't about me or my choices and it's not about any of the people who have replied either, I just thought I'd show what does go on.

    I think in a society where all the killing, skinning, plucking, gutting and preparation is done for us, out of sight, it's a positive thing to see what actually does go on.

    Wibbs, that's interesting about the vitamins, I'm only going on what I've been told so will not dispute any information as I'm not fully aware of the situation.

    I also wasn't aware of the soy production industry so thanks for pointing that out.

    Most people would probably buy the cheaper, supermarket type meat and I think they should be aware of some of the methods that have been undertaken to get the meat in that shrink wrap presentation and what harm could be present in such meat.

    I'm a meat eater don't forget, I love meat too. And yes, it's more the preparation than anything.

    As I've said before. I'm sure in the stone age, vegetarians and vegans were unheard of. Animals were loved and nurtured and had to be eaten for our survival. That's nature. Injecting and incubating meat is not natural.

    I could go on and on about this topic, but as I said, I only posted for people to see the process of which some of their food goes through before it makes it onto their plate.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,886 ✭✭✭beans


    On the soy front, perhaps not the best idea to eat a lot of unfermented soy (milk, tofu-esque matter etc).

    Some evidence for

    - Inhibition of enzymes that aid protein digestion
    - Blocking uptake of calcium, magnesium, copper, iron and especially zinc
    - Inhibiting effect on thyroid

    Probably lots of other stuff too. Soy sauce is ok as it's fermented allegedly.

    Personally meat = happiness. Would try to source Halal meat in an ideal world as i'm under the impression that it's butchered more humanely and with a bit of craft, rather than just sloppily killed by unskilled workers in factories. This is of course just a perception based on a documentary, but I wouldnt be surprised if there was some truth to it.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 178 ✭✭Futureman


    cormie wrote:
    Listen boss, don't take things so literally, I'm sure when you were sitting in front of The Simpsons watching Mr Fuzzy Bunny go at it with Fluffy bunny, you didn't start to question if you and you siblings were all bunnies. It's the same process.

    Your analogy is irrelevant. The Simpsons is a cartoon - wasn't your clip of reality? Do you know the difference? Because I do.....so don't suggest I can't tell the difference between a cartoon fluffy bunny, and real clips that you posted of animals getting battered! Bottom line, is you told me THIS is where MY milk comes from....and it was a clip of a ghey farm in California. That was my point - you lied to shock!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,016 ✭✭✭Blush_01


    OP: while your heart may have been in the right place, you're a bit far off the mark with relation to dairy production (and meat production, although I know very little about the Irish poultry industry) as the industries exist in Ireland.

    In the USA dairy farms exist as huge factory farms. They're so big it's almost beyond comprehension. Quite a lot of farms are in areas where the summer is too hot and the winter is too cold for the animals to graze outside, so they're indoors 24/7. Also, the looser regulations mean that the ordinary milk on the shelf in USA supermarkets - by ordinary I mean non-organic - is full of blood, puss, antibiotics, hormones (which are highly illegal here, by the way) etc. There have been cases in the states where milk was recalled because it was found to have penicillin in it - they were alerted to the fact when penicillin allergy sufferers had adverse reactions to the milk. You will NEVER hear of that happening here. NEVER. The regulations surrounding milk production here are prohibitively strict - and rightly so, the product is easily contaminated, easily spoiled and for human consumption. The milk is tested regularly, reports on the values of certain elements in the milk - fat, protein etc. levels are given on a very regular basis. Our milk at home generally goes into milk replacer, cheese and butter production at the local co-op. The quality of the milk dictates the price you're paid for it (within the pay-frame of the company) so it's in the best interests of the farmer to produce the best quality milk which will, understandably, come from the most content animals. Yes, these animals are bred to supply milk. It's their job, so to speak. Yes, they do produce more milk than they would do in the wild - but how many bovines exist in the wild in Ireland? Farming is a vocation, not everyone is suited to it. There are very few dairy farmers who don't care deeply that their herd is satisfied, who don't make sure they get the best fodder and grazing available to them and who will stand by while their (or other) animals are mistreated. In addition, it's illegal to treat an animal in the manner depicted in the videos you posted. If you do so, you can be fined and imprisoned (also rightly so, we should be thankful for what we're getting and not abuse the source of it, don't you think? :)) .

    With regard to meat and poultry production - if you buy Irish products, the product traceability regulations that Irish producers are subject to will not only tell you which farmer produced your fresh meat, but where (s)he lives - the address is provided on the packet if you get it on a pre-packed tray at the meat section in the supermarket, or if you ask they can tell you at the butcher's counter. Obviously a local butcher will tell you where the meat came from too. I'd be surprised if the farms depicted in your YouTube clips can do that. If you're not happy, you can trace the meat back to the person who raised the animal. That's impressive, don't you think? It also leads to a high level of culpability, which may be missing in other countries.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,976 ✭✭✭✭humanji


    Isn't the point that's being ignored that meat is damn tasty?


  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,859 ✭✭✭✭cormie


    Futureman wrote:
    Your analogy is irrelevant. The Simpsons is a cartoon - wasn't your clip of reality? Do you know the difference?

    No, whether it's a cartoon or not is what is irrelevant. I was comparing the act of reproduction explained in the simpsons to that which you were born by, different characters, same process, same end product. Same with the above videos, different location, same process, same end product.

    I said I'm not going to get into nitpicking here, I don't have time to entertain somebody who just wants to kill some boredom by getting into a stupid tiff on an internet message forum.

    As you said yourself, the videos are reality so why can't you accept that it's very likely to go on here too? Or are you making all this fuss because I said "This is where the milk we drink every day comes from" instead of saying "This is probably the same process the milk we drink every day comes from"?


  • Moderators, Politics Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 43,564 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    beans wrote:
    Personally meat = happiness. Would try to source Halal meat in an ideal world as i'm under the impression that it's butchered more humanely and with a bit of craft, rather than just sloppily killed by unskilled workers in factories.
    I have visited a number of meat foctories (Clonee, Rathdowney...). The animals were stunned and then I believe a bayonet type device pierces their skull killing them instantly whereupn they fall out into the conveyor belt process.
    Halal meat (IIRC) in its most brutal form involves the killing of an unstunned animal by cutting their throat (cutting the arteries, oesophagus, trachea, etc) with a swift sharp cut. The dying animal is then left (hanging?) for the blood to drain!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 102 ✭✭mickith


    im gona have nitghtmares of little skinless racoones runnin around the place

    that was a hurendous video to watch :(

    definitely put me off buying fur and the likes but dont think i could be a vegatarian


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,859 ✭✭✭✭cormie


    Blush_01 wrote:
    informative post

    Well that sounds a bit better anyway, thanks for the info. I'd still be sceptical about them producing more than they naturally should be though.

    I'd also still be concerned about where the likes of tesco value chickens and milk come from, which are on the shelves in our supermarkets and eaten by Irish people every day.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,061 ✭✭✭✭Terry


    supermarkets can sell at a lower price because of high turnover. simple economics.


  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,985 ✭✭✭ambro25


    [broad brush]It's part and parcel of the ongoing decountrification of very late 20th/early 21st century Europe[/broad brush]

    A lot of (most?) people have forgotten that to eat meat, you have to kill the meat first. Whilst there are excesses within the meat production industry, thankfully rare and -in the EU at least- extremely quickly investigated and culled, you should not be quick to dismiss a certain amount of automation of the production chain in the name of efficiency, as it contributes to keeping meat prices affordable.

    As for turning rabbit because some cow eyelashes have been batted, I believe a lot of kids (not forgetting 20-something kidults) should be made to kill and eat at least one animal early in their early lives to understand once and for all cause and consequences, i.e. not only that you can't eat meat without killing an animal, but also that every action has consequences (and I really believe this second aspect is increasingly relevant, not only to all things food-related).

    IMHO, this 'debate' should be linked to the for/against hunting debate, because the basis and the arguments are entirely similar.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,388 ✭✭✭✭r3nu4l


    Well I've always been anti-fur and I must say cormie, that first video was absolutely horrifying and disugsting! :eek: I've never been a fan of PETA though so would never applaud them.

    Still, I'm going home tonight and cooking a steak dinner, which is thawing right now, and I'll be having a glass of milk with it so no change there. I was vegetarian for a few years as a kid (8-11) but things change...


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,216 ✭✭✭✭monkeyfudge


    beans wrote:
    Would try to source Halal meat in an ideal world as i'm under the impression that it's butchered more humanely and with a bit of craft, rather than just sloppily killed by unskilled workers in factories. This is of course just a perception based on a documentary, but I wouldnt be surprised if there was some truth to it.
    I think it's debatable. With Halal the animal isn't stunned before it is slaughtered. So I guess it's up to you to decide if stunning the animal before slitting it's throat is more humane or not.

    Any halal places I've tried in Dublin have been super tasty though.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,886 ✭✭✭beans


    Everything's relative I suppose. I'm sure the cow would rather be left to his cud regardless of being stunned or not.

    As it goes, I don't have a problem with fur farming in principle, in the same way as I don't have a problem with using hides for shoes or meat for steaks. I do believe that such a farming industry should be regulated blah blah humane blah etc. Is it? I'm not sure.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,296 ✭✭✭✭event


    PETA eh!

    pure scum they are, would believe a word that comes from them or their sites

    have you ever seen their delightful kids website?

    http://www.petakids.com/


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 143 ✭✭Zonko


    That's not where the milk I drink comes from. You apparently have some misconceptions.

    Edit: Okay, I watched the whole thing (well, maybe half) of the cow one, and saw lots of innaccuracies and half truths. I'm not sure if the people that wrote the script don't entirely understand what they're talking about, or if they're trying to mislead. Although I obviously object to mass farming like that.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 799 ✭✭✭Schlemm


    About the fur issue, I think it's disgraceful that fur, and even fake fur, is still fashionable. Fur farming is still legal in the republic, even though that the way that some of the animals are reared and slaughtered is questionable. I wouldn't even wear fake fur - it's not a look I would like to advertise.

    About the farming.....farming in the USA is very different from farming in Ireland, as many posters have mentioned. Most farmers in Ireland will try to turn the cows out to pasture because it's cheaper to feed them grass. Same goes for beef cattle. Most sheep are turned out to pasture too. Although we have selected our dairy cattle for higher milk yields (and all too often at the expense of fertility and the risk of metabolic problems), the average yield of the average Irish dairy cow (about 4500 L per yr) is nothing near that of the dairy cow in the USA, where they can produce about 10,000 L per year. Their herds have dreadful fertility problems and metabolic problems and the animals have to work extremely hard, to produce milk and calves, and to function normally in metabolic terms. Farmers there use growth hormone to increase milk yield, as well as a cocktail of other hormones to control reproduction. While the ethics of breeding animals which are so unnatural and have so much stress placed on them is definitely questionable, the standards of dairy production in Ireland are not quite as intensive as that in the USA, and less cattle suffer the problems associated with intensive milk production here. The EU has also banned the use of certain hormones, such as estrogen and growth hormone. However, Ireland exports calves for veal production, the standards of which are questionable.

    The real issues in farming lie in intensive broiler, egg and pig production. Chickens are reared in cramped conditions and the breeding programmes have led to many physical disorders. The EU has proposed to implement new regulations for the cages of intensively farmed chickens, but some may argue that they are not that different from the current types of cages used.

    Having worked on a pig farm, I have seen the conditions that they are reared in. The sows are kept in farrowing crates for 4 weeks until the piglets are weaned. They can only sit and stand and walk a few steps back and forth and they often develop sores and infected legs. There is no bedding and they are housed on slats. Once the piglets are weaned, they are housed on slats until they are slaughtered. The sows are sent back to be serviced, and are housed in stalls that are not unlike farrowing crates. The conditions for farming pigs have been improved somewhat (ie, the sows are no longer tethered), and new EU laws will prevent them from being housed in individual stalls during pregnancy. Again, it is debatable whether the new laws will make much of a difference. But the way pigs are intensively farmed here is tough on the animals. Many develop abcesses from the hard floors and they often have few or no things to dig or play with. Stereotypical behavior in the sows is indicitave of their boredom and frustration.

    There does seem to be double standards with regard to attitudes in farming. I find it incredible that there are so many people who object to puppy farms, but would have no problem having a fry up!

    One thing I would like to see is that farmers would be allowed to use drugs to humanely euthanise animals. Very often, lambs and piglets, etc. are killed if they will not be economically viable (eg, if they have a serious injury or illness). If you are going to kill an animal by stunning it, you should always bleed it out to be sure, although lots of people will stun the animal without bleeding. Currently only vets can put down animals, but if farmers had access to affordable drugs for this purpose, a lot of suffering could be avoided.

    Any slaughterhouse I've been to in this country has been of a very high standard, although any worker I've spoken to about the ritual slaughter of animals has described it as brutal. In cattle, the common carotid arteries are cut, and these arteries are the principal blood supply to the brain. However there is another deeper artery which supplies some blood to the brain which is not cut. The animals are not stunned prior to slaughter. Temple Grandin, an Animal Scientist from the USA, has done some great work in redesigning slaughter houses to make them more humane, and her work is well worth a read for anyone interested in this area.

    Although I am not a vegetarian, I am choosy about my meat. Consumers today want cheaper meat, and this is causing farmers to rear animals in more intensive contitions. I think that people should take more of an interest in their meat and I reckon people would pay more for higher quality if they were aware of production standards, particularly in chicken and pigs.

    Peta use too many shock tactics and although some of their campaigns are in aid of worthy causes (eg, fur farming), they do not present a balanced view.
    www.ciwf.ie or www.ciwf.com (Compassion in World Farming) present a much more balanced view and are worth checking out. They have done some good work here in the republic, such as banning electroimmobilisation of cattle.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 10,910 ✭✭✭✭RoundyMooney


    I've seen these before.

    Anyone that believes these videos and anything like them are a true representation of fact, and something "everyone should be aware of" really needs to grow up and go to Bovine University tbh.

    PETA are about as impartial as the HM Morris company sponsoring research into the link between tobacco and respiratory disorders.

    My milk doesn't come from middle America.

    Butt out and let those of us who wish to use our incisors get on with doing so.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 16,165 ✭✭✭✭brianthebard


    Omfg I cannot believe it another peta/animal rights thread. First off OP, your video about milk is bullshi/t, Irish milk is not from America! Have you ever been on an Irish farm? Have you ever seen cattle slaughtered? How about getting some first hand experience of the farming industry here, rather than America, a place that we don't even import beef products from because they have ****ed up the system there so much. How about instead of mindlessly searching youfuckingtube for militant vegetarian propaganda, you find the real facts? God it pisses me off so much when I see people assuming that this is how milk and beef is produced here.

    I didn't mention chicken yet. Its not great. Its not terrible, they don't wantonly torture animals here (perhaps rare cases) like those videos often show, but battery hens are living in overcrowded unsanitary situations. So buy free range. Buy organic. Its not that much extra money to so some ethical awareness. But don't post videos from youtube!!!!




    edit: ok calmed down a bit now. OP there are serious problems with the methods of production in America, and Ireland isn't completely perfect, but its a damn sight better. There is an awful lot wrong with your post too though. Both need to be addressed if we want to advance on this issue. Firstly, there is absolutely nothing wrong with eating meat imo if you know where its coming from and know that the animal was not mistreated during its life. You don't have that security in modern supermarkets, but you have with local butchers (note McCribbens is not a local butcher, and its meat is deplorable, taste and price wise.) When you trust the means of production, you can trust the product.

    As others pointed out, there's a hell of a lot wrong with grain and veg production as well. In my opinion, there's even more wrong with that than meat production. But that's just an opinion. But you don't have to accept those problems. You can choose to source local produce. The farmer's and organic markets are becoming increasingly popular and are selling food produced locally, and with humanity and the environment in mind. Not only are you engaging in Fairtrade (something that should not be confined to third world countries-European food producers get shafted everyday by supermarkets) but along with that, you are taking a stand against excess packaging and carbon/greenhouse emissions that are normally caused by food imported into the country.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,859 ✭✭✭✭cormie


    Ok, I'll state again, the purpose of posting this thread was not to turn people into vegetarians, as I've said, I'm not even one myself. It's simple to make people aware of what goes on. Schlemm has given a very valuable contribution to this thread as somebody who has witnessed first hand the conditions in Ireland. They still sound pretty bad to me.

    If you know for a fact you have never consumed anything that has been as ill treated as the animals in the videos, then good for you. But I think the majority of us, at some stage, have no idea where our food has come from. Be it cheap supermarket products, imported foods (what about Lidl and Aldi?), and what about all the thousands of people who have holidayed in the USA? It's all well and good to say "that's not where my milk comes from", but it's very likely we have all consumed products previously treated like this.

    I don't see anything wrong with increasing awareness of what goes on and I don't understand why people are getting so defensive either.


  • Advertisement
  • Closed Accounts Posts: 16,165 ✭✭✭✭brianthebard


    Fast food nation increased awareness. Not on the Label increased awareness. There are plenty of works of literature and film out there that increase awareness-but in the right way. if you want to show what's wrong with the Irish food industry show us some evidence, preferably not something as obviously biased as the videos you posted.

    I don't feel the need to be defensive, I feel the need to correct your apparent lack of knowledge. You freely admitted a few pages ago that you didn't even know about soy bean production being linked to rainforest destruction. Well look up last months National Geographic (or the one before that, can't remember which month) and you will learn something. Look up PETA or any other group of its ilk,and you'll find horse shit.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,299 ✭✭✭✭MadsL


    More issues in China than the live skinning of animals tbh.

    Shame really, cheap fur from China flooding the market...no class. :rolleyes:


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,794 ✭✭✭JC 2K3


    cormie wrote:
    I'm by no means preaching vegan vegetarianism, I'm neither (yet) but I know it's the best choice for us all to take and hopefully this will open up some more eyes to what really goes on to animals and what really goes into our bodies.
    I don't understand, why should I give a **** about animals?

    I mean, if my dog died I'd be unhappy because I love her and she's like part of my family. But a random cow I have no emotional attachment to? Like I give a damn.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,564 ✭✭✭✭whiskeyman


    Not sure if this has been mentioned yet (too tired to read all thread)..
    I'm sure it's only a matter on time before meat / milk etc.. can be grown and made in lab conditions.
    See for some interesting reading. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/4148164.stm


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,658 ✭✭✭✭The Sweeper


    Schlemm wrote:
    There does seem to be double standards with regard to attitudes in farming. I find it incredible that there are so many people who object to puppy farms, but would have no problem having a fry up!

    I have the same view of people who claim such revulsion at the concept of wearing fur or eating meat that they wash their hands of the whole industry. By taking an individual stand and refusing to purchase fur, or steak, or milk, you're simply denying the industry one person's money.

    Personally, I go for the concept of demanding ethically farmed, free range and organic produce, thereby tempting the producers away from unethical standards and poor animal welfare.

    What do you think is more likely to make a battery farmer cash in his chicken-cages and invest in some straw bales:

    1,000 people saying "I'm not buying chicken any more full stop"

    or

    1,000 people saying "I'll buy free range, organic chicken thanks"


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 16,165 ✭✭✭✭brianthebard


    I have the same view of people who claim such revulsion at the concept of wearing fur or eating meat that they wash their hands of the whole industry. By taking an individual stand and refusing to purchase fur, or steak, or milk, you're simply denying the industry one person's money.

    Personally, I go for the concept of demanding ethically farmed, free range and organic produce, thereby tempting the producers away from unethical standards and poor animal welfare.

    What do you think is more likely to make a battery farmer cash in his chicken-cages and invest in some straw bales:

    1,000 people saying "I'm not buying chicken any more full stop"

    or

    1,000 people saying "I'll buy free range, organic chicken thanks"

    Here here. In fast food nation the author pointed out that if Macdonalds consumers demanded only 100% organic grass fed beef the company would change the next day. Why? because they have to provide what the consumer desires. As long as we allow our opinions and voices on the subject to be subdued then there will be no change.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 799 ✭✭✭Schlemm


    I have the same view of people who claim such revulsion at the concept of wearing fur or eating meat that they wash their hands of the whole industry. By taking an individual stand and refusing to purchase fur, or steak, or milk, you're simply denying the industry one person's money.

    Personally, I go for the concept of demanding ethically farmed, free range and organic produce, thereby tempting the producers away from unethical standards and poor animal welfare.

    What do you think is more likely to make a battery farmer cash in his chicken-cages and invest in some straw bales:

    1,000 people saying "I'm not buying chicken any more full stop"

    or

    1,000 people saying "I'll buy free range, organic chicken thanks"
    Absolutely. I was talking to a beef farmer there and he was saying how it's so hard to make money these days with people demanding cheaper meat and all. People are also unaware of the labelling laws on meat here in Ireland: simply put, if meat is imported from and processed here (eg into burgers or whatever) the company selling the finished product can say it is Irish meat. Not 100% sure, but I think that this goes for meat in takeaways and restaraunts too. Standards of meat production in other countries such as Thailand and South America are generally lower than standards here, and people are not aware of where their meat is coming from.

    People do not seem to want to face the fact that animals must die in order to become meat, as indicated by the uproar in response to Gordon Ramsay and Jamie Oliver having animals slaughtered on their shows (Jamie should've stunned the lamb first tho!). As well as demanding a high standard at the slaughter house, consumers should demand a high standard of production from the minute a food producing animal is born. Consumers will always find money for things that they consider to be important, as shown by the popularity of organic veg in recent times.

    No wonder nobody is going into farming these days with prices so low. If consumers were more demanding the farmers would get more money and production standards would be a lot higher! Farming standards are pretty good here by and large; however the way chickens and pigs are reared needs to be addressed, as well as the consumer's awareness and demands for chicken and pork in today's markets, and the money that farmers would get in return.


  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,119 Mod ✭✭✭✭Tar.Aldarion


    Good luck with it cormie, if you decide to go vegetarian.
    A lot of people hold the mistaken view that it is not healthy as you did, I'm glad you found out about it.
    Killing animals is not necessary to live healthy lives anymore.
    Like you I loved meat, it was my favourite food. I chose my morals over the pleasure of eating it though, gradually realising that I knew it was wrong.

    Any questions, feel free to ask here.
    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/forumdisplay.php?f=572
    Or some people prefer to PM me, either is fine.

    Here is some info for you about nutrition questions if you have any too.
    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=290778


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 38,227 ✭✭✭✭Guy:Incognito


    Here here. In fast food nation the author pointed out that if Macdonalds consumers demanded only 100% organic grass fed beef the company would change the next day. Why? because they have to provide what the consumer desires. As long as we allow our opinions and voices on the subject to be subdued then there will be no change.


    Would the people be happy to pay a lot more for the food? Or would there be a HUGE thread in "rip off Ireland"?


    Oh, and, eat meat, it's grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrreat.

    I'm off to buy M&S burgers and their lovely fluffy buns. mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm


  • Advertisement
  • Closed Accounts Posts: 40 Goldfinger


    As an unapologetic carnivore, am I "allowed" to be utterly disgusted, not only at the unnecessary cruelty to the animals shown in the fur video, but also at the "humourous" reactions of so many of the posters here (Chuckie, I'm looking at you - if you think an animal being skinned alive is cause for laughter then you need to see a doctor) ?

    How does eating meat and wearing leather make me a hypocrite for saying the unnecessary torture of a helpless creature turns my stomach?
    (In case you haven't got it yet..the key word here is unnecessary to the process, kids)


Advertisement