Something everyone should be aware of...

cormie

To start off, here is an intro video: [MAY CAUSE OFFENSE TO SOME VIEWERS]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0lfNFCAOytI

Before you make your next shopping list please look at this and stop to think:
<SNIP> Mod edit: Didn't think this one in particular should be have been posted..
cormie says: This was the most informative video I posted, I don't think it should be snipped and censored but it's not up to me so fair enough. If anyone still wants to watch it, it's a very good 9 minute documentary called "The Price of Meat" first result on youtube when searched for. I advise everyone to watch it.

I'm not a vegetarian, the main reason being because I thought there were essential nutrients that could only be found in meat. I've recently learned that we can get everything we need and be even healthier, without eating meat. Therefore killing for survival is no longer necessary. I love meat but I'm willing to try giving up!

My friend has been talking about becoming one and I've been arguing against it saying it's in our nature and everything to eat meat as well as many other points but after learning more and opening up to the idea of change, I now know it's for the best.

It's not just meat either. I've already made the move to Soya milk which I'm glad with from watching previous videos on dairy farming etc and it was extremely easy to do.

This is where the milk we drink every day comes from:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b7cGLywGSag

And chicken and eggs:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3KXZu65HpUA

I'm by no means preaching vegan vegetarianism, I'm neither (yet) but I know it's the best choice for us all to take and hopefully this will open up some more eyes to what really goes on to animals and what really goes into our bodies.

Fast_Mover

Could you please edit in some warning signs/tags, as the videos (esp the 2nd one) may be very disturbing for some viewers!

Dont be at yourself

Here's something for you to thing of, next time you're chomping down on your quorn and tofu burger:

jimmycrackcorm

Why have I a sudden yearning for a Big Mac?

sceptre

They're clearing rainforest in Brazil to grow more soybeans. Damned if you do, screwed if you don't.

Dave!

What about the vegetables, why do they deserve to be eaten?!

Someone pleeeease think of the vegetables

Futureman

cormie wrote:

This is where the milk we drink every day comes from:

I'm pretty sure my milk comes from Ireland, not California - idiot.

And I don't eat battery farmed meat - I get it all fresh from Superquinn, who even have a picture of the farmer and his location above the counter. And my eggs are free range.

I think you're mixing up Ireland with extreme cases of animal abuse in the US, as per your clips - I know it goes on a lot more than we realise, but stop trying to shock people to make your point.

DonkeyStyle \o/

You mean the animals I eat didn't die peacefully of old age?! :eek:
This is truly shocking news.
We must get the word out.

Mossy Monk

god damned hippies

cormie

Fast_Mover wrote:

Could you please edit in some warning signs/tags, as the videos (esp the 2nd one) may be very disturbing for some viewers!

I thought of that alright but this is not to shock anyone, it's just to show what's happening every day.

Futureman, don't call me an idiot. I was referring to the process.

Anyway, I didn't post this to get into a debate on an internet forum. Just to show what's going on. Simple as that, not going to get into any nitpicking here.

Pighead

When Pighead was a pre teen he took a class trip to a slaughter house and saw the nasty people process cattle from live animal to hamburger.

On the bus home I had a really difficult time dealing with the memory of watching those terrified cattle looking out at us as they were killed and then immediatly disected. At that point I swore off all meat.

Unfortunately when I got home Mam had Beefburgers and Bovril on the table, I knew from past experience that if I hadn't eaten my dinner there and then she would have fcuking hammered me.

Chucky the tree

Good videos, still not as entertaining as seeing that pig get his head taken off with a chainsaw though.

ODS

Pighead wrote:

When Pighead was a pre teen he took a class trip to a slaughter house and saw the nasty people process cattle from live animal to hamburger.

On the bus home I had a really difficult time dealing with the memory of watching those terrified cattle looking out at us as they were killed and then immediatly disected. At that point I swore off all meat.

Unfortunately when I got home Mam had Beefburgers and Bovril on the table, I knew from past experience that if I hadn't eaten my dinner there and then she would have fcuking hammered me.

Pighead, either this is de ja vu or youve spoken about such topics in a similar manner before... Is there something your shrink isnt telling us?

jimmycrackcorm

cormie wrote:

I'm by no means preaching vegan vegetarianism, I'm neither (yet) but I know it's the best choice for us all to take

YouTube manages, in a single post, to obliterate the effect of natures development, over thousands of years, of meat tearing incisors. Now we know why it's worth $1.6 billion.

PiE

cormie wrote:

I thought of that alright but this is not to shock anyone, it's just to show what's happening every day.

Whether you set out to shock or not, and since you have given time and effort into educating yourself, do you not think you could put your point across more successfully by listing off the main advantages of becoming vegetarian? While I know we can all go googling and find out for ourselves, very few people will.

If you had done that, rather than using age old PETA shock-video tactics of extreme and probably very isolated animal abuse, I reckon people might be more willing to listen.

BlitzKrieg

hmm


question number 1: What is the first video meant to explain?

that humans can be d*cks?

what relevence does it have to the rest of the post?

Its an attack of the fur industry, something which you will find alot of people will nod in agreement with you.

Dont brush everyone into one big pile...its like calling of vegetarians hippies.

Question number 2

Do you know that the videos you are showing are from PETA and relate (the second and third one) primarily to the American poultry and dairy industries...

Europe in comparison as part of the EU has much stricter policies and laws...it doesnt mean everything is all dixy and rainbow smiles...the animal still dies but its nowhere near the standard of torture (if you will call it that.) shown in the videos.


And finally a very simple question.

Are you trying to get the message across to care about these animals and give up meat for their sake...or because of the practice of the industry?

To be honest if the whole world went vegetarian tomarrow...I will personnally go out and shoot 90% of these animals.

why?

The biggest damage caused by these industries is not the killing of and mistreatment of cows and chickens...but the overbreading of them. So much of the world is used for cattle grazing...a large part of the rainforest has been cut down. So much of the worlds grain produce is used in feeding livestock. The problem here is mankind has interfered already to increase the populations of livestock which if it was to stop right now the world would be even more f*cked.


These industries need to have a right kick in the b*lls...but it shouldnt be from idiots like PETA who think its about saving the cows...its a load of crap. Dont feel guilty eating a burger, feel guilty for what the burger ate before you.

monkeyfudge

When I grow up I want to go to bovine university!

Rb

cormie wrote:

I thought of that alright but this is not to shock anyone, it's just to show what's happening every day.

I know Cormie, but some people don't like to face reality

PiE wrote:

do you not think you could put your point across more successfully by listing off the main advantages of becoming vegetarian?

Because so many people will take in the facts that way, sure Just look at the sheer amount of lard arse Americans, who've been told over and over not to eat certain foods, and certainly not in excess as it will have detrimental effects on their health...yet millions of them still do, every day. Not just Americans, all over the world people shrug off the health warnings attached to the products they consume...so I really don't think listing off facts is the best way of making people aware, and it certainly won't get many to change their habits.

Sure enough, the videos may shock some people, but they should also show people the reality of a lot of situations throughout the world and maybe get people to alter their consumption habits.

The first video was nothing new really, I've been anti-fur for a long, long time now. However, I'm not exactly an active protester, the most I'd probably do would be shake my head disapprovingly at those wearing it. I think the buying of fur is dying down though, a lot of people are becoming more aware of the shít they put the animals through to make it and are realising there is actually no need whatsoever for it to be happening, so hopefully these fur farms will be eradicated some time in the near future.

I'm neither vegan nor vegetarian, I've certainly thought about making the change though. However I love dairy products though I'm reasonably sure that the conditions the cows are farmed in and slaughtered here are a lot better than in the states. The health benefits of not eating dairy may well convince me to make the change sometime in the next few years though, they really speak for themselves.

I eat quite a lot of chicken too, admittedly even KFC the odd time though I'm fully aware of the conditions their chickens are farmed in. I could see myself quitting dairy before I quit chicken though. I suppose one of the reasons would be that I've always considered the products to be highly nutritional (aswell as being lovely tasting), and I've usually quite a high protein based diet and its an extremely easy way of getting in the protein levels that I need. Surely enough I get protein supplements too, but there really is only so many of those shakes I can consume per day.

Going vegetarian may be something I'll do in the next few years, I do a lot of other things which have bad effects on my health that I've to get myself off first though.

Anyway, to those moaning that the videos are designed to "shock" people...of course they are! How else is one supposed to get people to listen?Display the facts?Lol, how often does that work? Look around you, look at all the people smoking cigarettes dispite there being health warnings on each and every packet, look at all the people polluting their livers with alcohol frequently, despite knowing the damage that the alcohol does to their body (and mind), look at all the extremely overweight Americans piling into McDonalds and other fast food places every day, despite being fully aware of the damage that it can do to them...and then filling their fat kids up with the stuff too...very, very few listen to facts, "shocking" footage or a display of reality may well be the only way to hammer home the message, so ease up on Cormie

Nice meeting you the other day btw!

Terry

Let's try and keep the debate here reasoned (yeah, I know. It's AH.).

My take:
I eat meat and i don't feel guilty about it and never will. There is a slaughterhouse 5 minuts walk from my house. It's been there all my life and I've seen the animals kiled there. Still doesn't bother me though.
I like beef and chicken and pork (but not lamb. tastes like crap). Horse is nice too.
Bottom line is, those ****ers would attack you if they had the chance. It's kill or be killed. I've been chased by a herd of cattle on more than one occasion and it taught me two things. Firstly, They might not eat me, but they would have no problem knocking me around a bit and secondly, don't take a short cut home through fields with cattle in them.

Last, but certainly not least, we are omnivores. simple as that.
I don't want to hear the meat supplement arguement because if it were up to a tiger, the tiger would take the meat over the meat supplement. same applies to any other carnivore.

PiE

rb_ie wrote:

words

Ok you missed the point of my post.

PETA style videos do not work. The only people who watch them are people who are already vegan/vegetarian or those who just y'know... like a bit of gore. The vast majority of people will simply turn them off/turn away, because they don't want to see/hear it. Guilt-tripping people isn't gonna work in the long term; guilt fades.

People will listen if you're telling them something that benefits them directly. Obviously not everyone, but I guarantee you that a helluva lot more people would have read a quick, bullet-point breakdown of the main benefits of not eating meat than those who watched the videos all the way through.

Could even have thrown in a JPEG of a fluffy animal for that cuddly effect.

Seth Brundle

Hilary Briss ftw!

Futureman

cormie wrote:

Futureman, don't call me an idiot. I was referring to the process.

Eh, you showed me a video of somewhere in California, and told me that's where all my milk comes from, when it clearly doesn't - that does in fact make you an idiot.

Black Swan

Do plants scream when harvested?

Wibbs

cormie wrote:

I'm not a vegetarian, the main reason being because I thought there were essential nutrients that could only be found in meat. I've recently learned that we can get everything we need and be even healthier, without eating meat.

I've checked this out myself from various sources and found this to be not quite true. While 90% of people should eat far less and better quality meat there are nutrients that are present in meats that either don't exist in the plant world, or if they exist we can't metabolise them, or are present in too small amounts to be useful. Vitamin B12 in plants is not bioavailable. Numerous studies have shown that. Brewers yeast is one that the veggies advocate but in it's natural form contains no bioavailable B12. It has to be fortified artificially. In fact if you eat too much soy products you increase your need for Vit B12, feeding into the cycle. It also isn't too good for iron and zinc absorption.

Vitamin A is another one. While beta carotene is present in plant foods you have to be careful how you mix foods in order for your body to absorb it.

The idea that we would be all much healthier if we were vegetarians seems fine at first glance, but there are many many examples of peoples around the world who exists on an almost entirely meat based diet (inuits, maasai)who suffer few of the maladies of modern life(until they start on western type diets). We evolved by eating meat. We produce hydrochloric acid in the stomach, we have far shorter digestive system than herbivores, we can't even break down cellulose like planteaters. The first stone tools we made were designed to break open bones to extract the marrow. It's not the meat itself that's the problem.

It's not just meat either. I've already made the move to Soya milk which I'm glad with from watching previous videos on dairy farming etc and it was extremely easy to do.

Do you have any idea the damage to the earth because of large scale monoculturing of grains like soya, rice etc. Meat eating doesn't harm the earth to anything like the degree some types of commercial farming does. Endless fields of wheat or soybean, artificially grown is no picnic either. You can't make a shocking youtube vid about that though.

This is where the milk we drink every day comes from:

If you're American.

And chicken and eggs:

Not mine I can tell you.

I'm by no means preaching vegan vegetarianism, I'm neither (yet) but I know it's the best choice for us all to take and hopefully this will open up some more eyes to what really goes on to animals and what really goes into our bodies.

No it's not the best choice and do more research yourself to find out how exactly you'll get a better diet.

Wibbs

Oh yes, PETA are woolly headed hippy idiots.

Terry

Futureman wrote:

Eh, you showed me a video of somewhere in California, and told me that's where all my milk comes from, when it clearly doesn't - that does in fact make you an idiot.

Please read the charter re: personal abuse.
Calling someone an "idiot" falls into that catergory.
You only get one warning and only because you're new here.
Thanks.
Let's keep it civil, folks. After all, we're not animals.

Blue_Lagoon wrote:

Do plants scream when harvested?

No. Then again, neither do cows.
Those turkies I killed one christmas didn't scream either. They just crapped themselves and ran around for a few seconds due to nerve impulses. (yes, I was once a turkey plucker).

Futureman

julep wrote:

Please read the charter re: personal abuse.
Calling someone an "idiot" falls into that catergory.
You only get one warning and only because you're new here.
Thanks.

Sorry Julep.

TerrorFirmer

The first video is hardly representing a fair image of a case for veganism. Most people actually disagree with the fur trade, and in the meat industry generally speaking, whilst the animal still dies, it's not like guys go around with big sticks beating them to death in a barbaric fashion.

All that video does is really doing is showcasing the potential for human cruelty and/or indifference to suffering, guess what, it's not just limited to animals, it happens to poor children, men and women everyday on the planet too.

That first video makes me feel ill, really feel for the poor animals - but it won't discourage me to eat meat in the slightest, beacuse by and large that's not a stage in production of meat in most places. Again, yes the animal dies, but that's our nature, we've been eating meat for thousands of years and so have many of the other species on this planet.

It's not really the meat in question here, it's how its prepared, and I think you've fallen victim to that Cormie, usual PETA stuff of associating localised and isolated practices to the entire world as a whole.

Terry

Havok wrote:

All that video does is really doing is showcasing the potential for human cruelty and/or indifference to suffering, guess what, it's not just limited to animals, it happens to poor children, men and women everyday on the planet too.

PETA don't care about people.

Futureman wrote:

Sorry Julep.

No need to apologise. Just read the charter.

Seth Brundle

julep wrote:

Blue_Lagoon wrote:

Do plants scream when harvested?

No. Then again, neither do cows.

Is a cow harvester like a combine harvester?

Terry

more like a scythe.