If there was an united Ireland, would we in the North be better off?

dj9928 · 27-01-2007 09:17PM #1

Just curious, at the min we are the poorest region in the UK, the vast majority of people are on min wage or below £250 a week, First time housing buyers have no hope, would we in the north be better of financially with a united Ireland

Dave! · 27-01-2007 09:45PM

yeeshk, this is never a pleasant thing to discuss............. -_-

ScumLord · 27-01-2007 09:57PM

I think their better off as they are. N.I has never had the chance to develop properly because of all the trouble if there was peace I have no doubt N.I would excell in europe they have strong politions that could get just about anything off Europe.

They have much better infastructure thanks to British taxes. Just look at their roads I remember leaving N.I and the first thing you notice are the potholes.

they could have the best of both worlds, They are Irish and should get all the international tourisim that goes along with that title but at the same time they have all the benifits off British money.

Zonko · 27-01-2007 10:07PM

I disagree scumhole, outside of Belfast the north has terrible roads, the only big disadvantage is the lack of self-sustaining economy due to the largely government subsided companies like H&W and shorts. At the moment the north is costing the UK £2B a year for both reasons like this, and scams still going on all over the show mostly buy republicans trying to rip off the percieved enemy.

antSionnach · 27-01-2007 10:11PM

I think his name is scumlord...!

I think right now, objectively speaking, Ulster would be better served as part of an Irish state. However, they would probably be even better served by looking after their own affairs. Clean up your own mess lads!

Zonko · 27-01-2007 10:35PM

Ah yeah, sorry about that scumlord. Clean up our mess though? In all fairness there are very few people alive that instigated the secterian partitioning of Ireland, the current working generations for the most part didn't kill anyone, didn't bomb anywhere, didn't try to keep half the population down through inhumane governing policies. It's not our fault we've been shat on and forgotten about by the south, had a blind eye turned to us by the UK and been kicked about and unlooked after by our own people in power.

antSionnach · 27-01-2007 10:40PM

Yeah, so Ulster should put itself into power. get Ulster working for Ulster.

Financially, the place is a mess. I'm not sure the southern economy can afford that kind of patriotism, and the vast majority of people in the north want unity so it's completely hypothetical anyway.

Why would Ulster be better off as part of a united Ireland?

Zonko · 27-01-2007 10:47PM

1/3 of Ulster already is. :P

ScumLord · 27-01-2007 10:56PM

I know **** all about the ins and out's of the whole N.I situation but I do see all the folks in the north as being as Irish as the rest of us in the south probably even more so. In my hearts of hearts I'd love to see a united Ireland but at the end of the day treatys and constitutions are just words and paper the people matter and if you take away the emotion of the subject N.I is in the position to reap huge benifits if peace lasts.

N.I has allot coming to it from the Republic, Europe and the UK, they should at the very least get as much funding as they can from those bodys before rushing headlong into the idealisim of joining the republic. Which I think is enevitable.

At the end of the day N.I's future belongs to the people of N.I. At the end of the day you should do whats best for whats good for the people of your country.

admiralofthefleet · 27-01-2007 11:51PM

northern ireland would be better off existing in an all ireland economy, but things are more or less a united ireland at the moment, the cross-border bodies, different sporting organisations existing as an all-ireland entity, the new national developement plan, etc... . so i would say that ni only exists as part of the uk in a political sense, didnt john major say about 15 years ago the the uk 'has no economic or strategic interest in ni'

Mossy Monk · 28-01-2007 12:03AM

antSionnach wrote:

Yeah, so Ulster should put itself into power. get Ulster working for Ulster.

Northern Ireland is but 6 counties
Ulster is 9

jimmycrackcorm · 28-01-2007 01:30PM

dj9928 wrote:

Just curious, at the min we are the poorest region in the UK, the vast majority of people are on min wage or below £250 a week, First time housing buyers have no hope, would we in the north be better of financially with a united Ireland

You'll find out in a few years time.

purple'n'gold · 28-01-2007 01:38PM

dj9928 wrote:

Just curious, at the min we are the poorest region in the UK, the vast majority of people are on min wage or below £250 a week, First time housing buyers have no hope, would we in the north be better of financially with a united Ireland

You might be better off, but I for one (I live in the south) would feel far worse off if I had to live in the same state as the so called “Rev” William McCrea. A classic example of a bigot living in the 15th century.

Terry · 28-01-2007 01:43PM

Zonko wrote:

Ah yeah, sorry about that scumlord. Clean up our mess though? In all fairness there are very few people alive that instigated the secterian partitioning of Ireland, the current working generations for the most part didn't kill anyone, didn't bomb anywhere, didn't try to keep half the population down through inhumane governing policies. It's not our fault we've been shat on and forgotten about by the south, had a blind eye turned to us by the UK and been kicked about and unlooked after by our own people in power.

Abandoned by both the republic and the U.K.?
Stop feeling sorry for yourself and sort out your own problems. You would probably be better off on your own anyway.
The republic of northern Ireland has a nice ring to it.

Those people in the south that "shat" on you are no longer alive, so stop churning out that old nugget. It's time to grow up and stop blaming everyone else for your problems. Only then will you be able to move forward and decide your own future.

Rb · 28-01-2007 01:54PM

I agre Julep.

Also, United Ireland?No thanks.

Terry · 28-01-2007 01:58PM

don't get me wrong. I would love to see a united Ireland, but not one with a bunch of whining bitches who are still bitter about being abandoned by either Ireland or britain.
Then again, romantic Ireland is dead and gone...

gandalf · 28-01-2007 02:12PM

Once both communities learn to live together then they can consider joining us. Until they are able to do that we don't want them.

Oh AH mods don't move this to politics.

Terry · 28-01-2007 02:22PM

gandalf wrote:

Oh AH mods don't move this to politics.

LMAO.
Don't worry. It has already been AH'd.

luckat · 28-01-2007 03:43PM

If we got together - North and South - we could be a powerful force. I'd love it. But only if people want it wholeheartedly and are completely committed to the country.

flanger20002003 · 28-01-2007 05:02PM

luckat wrote:

If we got together - North and South - we could be a powerful force. I'd love it. But only if people want it wholeheartedly and are completely committed to the country.

Which is highly unlikely...after all, that's what the past 30 years have been about! IMO, our Fianna Fail/PDs coalition can just about run the country as it is...imagine adding to an already strained welfare system the needs of another million or so people. Doubt either the Republic or the North would benefit economically from it at all.

Terry · 28-01-2007 09:46PM

I can't be entirely sure about this, but i really don't think that there are 1 million people up north in need of welfare support.

baztard · 28-01-2007 10:53PM

In the short term, no the six counties would be worse off, with all the turmoil from the change etc. In the long term though yes they would be better off.

Its not gonna happen anytime soon though unfortunately.

Zonko · 28-01-2007 11:43PM

julep wrote:

I can't be entirely sure about this, but i really don't think that there are 1 million people up north in need of welfare support.

The number might be close to one million if you factor in civil servants and government subsided companies.

Flukey · 29-01-2007 12:48AM

In the longer term Northern Ireland would be better off joining the rest of the country. There are a lot of jealous eyes looking at the way the Irish economy has gone. There are many reasons for the Celtic Tiger, but amongst them is the improving situation in Northern Ireland. If things keep moving positively, Northern Ireland will continue on the current upward curve they are on, and with the rest of us, it would be even better. There are those up there that will never want that, but maybe in time it will happen. On balance they would be far better off in a lot of ways.

Steyr · 29-01-2007 02:31AM

rb_ie wrote:

Also, United Ireland?No thanks.

Thank you, NO United Ireland for me either, i reckon the Nation would have a Civil War, I believe Tony would hand it back at 8am given the Opportunity, but why would we want an Economical and Political nightmare on our hands we have enough to deal with as it is, the UK can keep it as far as im concerned.

29-01-2007 02:40AM

Sounds like a remake of an old series? Northern Exposure?

InFront · 29-01-2007 03:42AM

Steyr wrote:

Thank you, NO United Ireland for me either, i reckon the Nation would have a Civil War, I believe Tony would hand it back at 8am given the Opportunity, but why would we want an Economical and Political nightmare on our hands we have enough to deal with as it is, the UK can keep it as far as im concerned.

Very true. Add the fact that the majority of people, including a significant number of Catholics, want to remain attached to Britian (or the British Exchequer:) ) and you really don't have much argument in favour of Irish Unionism.

All that's left is patriotism, and although there's nothing wrong with patriotism, it doesnt really carry much weight against all of the arguments against a united Ireland.

Sleepy · 29-01-2007 11:50AM

Lets look at facts:

The UK pumps vast quantities of cash into Northern Ireland every year.
A huge proportion of employment in Northern Ireland is public sector.
The former paramilitaries on both sides haven't simply disappeared.

Joining the Republic would put all of those people out of work and the loss of the UK's subsidy. The Republic is on the verge of recession as it stands and would not in any way be able to afford to match the subsidy levels the UK provides the North (nor would there be the political will to do so in a country of such parish pump politics as practiced here).

If Northern Ireland can reduce it's reliance on state jobs, boost it's economy to the point where it's self-sufficient while at the same time preventing the hardliners on both sides of the political divide from killing each other and innocent civilians caught between them, neutralising the former paramilitaries that are now forming organised crime 'families' and basically grow up there might be a case for unification. Until that fantasy becomes a reality however, we plain and simple don't want you.

kevmy · 29-01-2007 12:01PM

IMO if the North joined us tomorrow it would be a disaster for both of us. Our welfare systems are different, our currency is different, our health systems are different etc. There is very little in the North and South that are run in the exact same way so it would not make sense.
The North would be better off using money that the Republic and Britain are giving it and putting it to use setting up their own system where they know their own problems. I can't see a United Ireland for another 50 years at least and even then it probably won't happen.

flanger20002003 · 29-01-2007 03:18PM

julep wrote:

I can't be entirely sure about this, but i really don't think that there are 1 million people up north in need of welfare support.

Well maybe that was a slight exaggeration, but when you consider things like unemployment benefit, pensions, children's allowance, student grants, subsidies for community projects (youth clubs, reconciliation schemes etc.), I'd say you're talking in the region of half a million people at least. Don't forget that the effects of social welfare extend beyond the direct recipient...they might have kids or other dependents too. My point is that our government would struggle severely to cater for the needs of that many extra people, at least in the short term.

flanger20002003 · 29-01-2007 03:18PM

julep wrote:

I can't be entirely sure about this, but i really don't think that there are 1 million people up north in need of welfare support.

Well maybe that was a slight exaggeration, but when you consider things like unemployment benefit, pensions, children's allowance, student grants, subsidies for community projects (youth clubs, reconciliation schemes etc.), I'd say you're talking in the region of half a million people at least. Don't forget that the effects of social welfare extend beyond the direct recipient...they might have kids or other dependents too. My point is that our government would struggle severely to cater for the needs of that many extra people, at least in the short term.

If there was an united Ireland, would we in the North be better off?

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