Road signs & Gaelic - time for a change?

_blank_ · 25-01-2007 11:48AM

Get the LUAS much then?

kevmy · 25-01-2007 11:48AM

First off the language is offically Gaeilge or Irish in the English language according to the constitution. Gaelic languages refers to Irish, Scottish and Breton Gaelic as a whole.
Secondly the original post refers to us moving further away from independence. I reckon we moving further into independence. So we can do what we like with our road signs. And judging by this poll and the general mood in the country we want our road signs bilingual. Keeps our culture yet doesn't alienate anybody.
Thirdly as for the majority of people disliking Irish, I don't think this is true. Perhaps the majority of people didn't like it in school but then the majority didn't like maths either but I don't see a clamour to get rid of that 'dead language'.
Fourtly the language isn't dead. There are a good number of people living in the Gaeltacht areas maybe a small percentage of the population but still thousands of people. We have a TV station and a Radio station transmitted in Irish. Some people became fluent through the school system (in regular schols and Gaelscoils) eg. Sharon Ni Bheolain. And lots of people have other varying degrees of fluency usually not that good but still some.
Lastly looking at the program No Bearla on TG4 it seems the Dubs are much more obnoxious to people trying to speak Gaelige than the cluchies. So maybe we just lop of the capital and it can float away to join up with Big Brother across the pond;)

humanji · 25-01-2007 12:36PM

In fairness, I don't really care. The only Irish I know was the rubbish that I was taught in school which didn't really want to teach anything other than the phrases that'll get you through the leaving cert.

I don't think the signs should be changed, not because of heritage or anything like that, but simply because it'll cost too much and the government are run ragged trying to bleed us dry as it is, so we should give them a break!

But, although I don't know much Irish, and have absolutely no interest in learning any more, there should be more options for people to learn it and more effort put in by the government to try and boost the language. Things like TG4 are a start, (and I was quite impressed when they started showing more modern films dubbed in Irish), but as it stands, it's like it's just on the periphery and they did it because they had to, rather than because they should.

Dutchology · 25-01-2007 12:55PM

Gurgle wrote:

Actually, Baile Atha means 'Town Place' Cliath means hurdle or darn according to this dictionary. I think darn is an old word for a valley or something?

The original name was Dubh Linn, meaning Blackpool.

Well there you go, you learn something new every day. I stand corrected. If that is the original name, then that is what it should be.

layke · 25-01-2007 01:26PM

I am an English speaker, born and bred in Ireland and I don't speak one word of Irish. I personally hate Academic nationalism the big lanaguage in the world is English, i'd rather speak that then some useless language that eats up your valuable leaving cert study time so I can go to the wesht every 6 years and have a 5 min banter with other enthusiasts. The Irish share more in common with the British culture then they will ever admit.

cornbb · 25-01-2007 01:42PM

You're entitled to your opinon layke, but don't you think its a good thing to have little things like the Irish language to differentiate our culture from that of Britain and the rest of the western world? I mean I'm all for the EU and everything but if small cultural things like the Irish language are lost then we risk becoming homogenised and losing any sort of identity.

biko · 25-01-2007 01:50PM

Tir gan teanga, tir gan anam

Siogfinsceal · 25-01-2007 01:51PM

good god have you an pride in your country at all?? former british colony me arse

oRlyYaRly · 25-01-2007 02:11PM

This is from Wikipedia, so you know... but still, I don't see any reason to doubt it:

As a noun, it [Gaelic] may refer to the group of languages spoken by the Gaels, or to any one of the individual languages.

So there.

kevmy · 25-01-2007 02:17PM

layke wrote:

I am an English speaker, born and bred in Ireland and I don't speak one word of Irish. I personally hate Academic nationalism the big lanaguage in the world is English, i'd rather speak that then some useless language that eats up your valuable leaving cert study time so I can go to the wesht every 6 years and have a 5 min banter with other enthusiasts. The Irish share more in common with the British culture then they will ever admit.

I think it's great we speak English it gives us an advantage over people who don't because it is the global language. That doesn't mean we shouldn't be able to speak Irish as well. The Swiss speak at least 2 and often 3 languages, a lot of Belgians speak Flemish as well as French. And in my eyes it's not nationalism. I hate Sinn Fein and the IRA, don't want a united Ireland, don't hate the English. I view it as part of something we are. Like GAA or Irish music or dancing. A lot of countries have their own music and dance and games we also happen to have an alive language as well.
As for sharing British culture well of course we do the ruled us for 800 years, their our next door neighbour, we have loads of dealing with them. But we'vw also got stuff of our own. And if you say we are the same I have one word for you. Cricket

The Gnome · 25-01-2007 02:22PM

kevmy wrote:

I think it's great we speak English it gives us an advantage over people who don't because it is the global language. That doesn't mean we shouldn't be able to speak Irish as well. The Swiss speak at least 2 and often 3 languages, a lot of Belgians speak Flemish as well as French. And in my eyes it's not nationalism. I hate Sinn Fein and the IRA, don't want a united Ireland, don't hate the English. I view it as part of something we are. Like GAA or Irish music or dancing. A lot of countries have their own music and dance and games we also happen to have an alive language as well.
As for sharing British culture well of course we do the ruled us for 800 years, their our next door neighbour, we have loads of dealing with them. But we'vw also got stuff of our own. And if you say we are the same I have one word for you. Cricket

QFT.

User45701 · 25-01-2007 02:40PM

i dont relay get the whole thing people having all this patrotasim stuff is 1/2 the problem in the world me and my country instead of me and my race.

robinph · 25-01-2007 02:41PM

kevmy wrote:

And if you say we are the same I have one word for you. Cricket

Ireland did manage to qualify for that World Cup.

robinph · 25-01-2007 02:48PM

Gurgle wrote:

Actually, Baile Atha means 'Town Place' Cliath means hurdle or darn according to this dictionary. I think darn is an old word for a valley or something?

The original name was Dubh Linn, meaning Blackpool.

I thought that Baile Atha Cliath and Dubh Linn were actually the names of two different ancient settlements. One somewhere near where the Pheonix Park is and the other being around a bridge over the Liffey nearer town.

Marksie · 25-01-2007 03:12PM

Gurgle wrote:

Actually, Baile Atha means 'Town Place' Cliath means hurdle or darn according to this dictionary. I think darn is an old word for a valley or something?

The original name was Dubh Linn, meaning Blackpool.

Well, i was reading a history of dublin's foundation, so it goes something like this as far as place names go:
The original small settlement was atha cliath, meaning ford of hurdles and was located near the mouth of the poddle on piles of stones. At the point where the Poddle met the Liffey a "black pool".. dubh Linn emerged. Which later gave us the name Dublin.

But what do I know i am one of those english, some of you love to hate so much.

Correct me if i am wrong, but isn't Irish being recognised as an official EU language and isn't it being taught on the curriculum of some uk schools?
So it should be preserved. But of course I would like signs being bilingual.

What really makes me wonder, is that there have already been two bannings over this, and it does seem that some Pro Irish language don't use reasoned argument at all but insults, judging by some of the posts.How would they "persuade" people to their viewpoint if they were in a pub for example?.

But to be honest I am getting less and less understanding about such attitudes. My very much quiet approach to this is being rapidly replaced by contempt.

I think that is the first time i have ever posted critiscing this attitude, but i am getting heartily sick of it all.
Oh and if you want to attack, attck my post, and attack it ion a reasoned fashion, otherwise it is just more ranting.

Hagar · 25-01-2007 03:27PM

Nice post Mark. I was waiting for someone to correct the mistaken translation. It took a while.

Although I agree with it one thing always puzzled me, why "dubh linn" and not "linn dubh" as would be the correct syntax. I have always wondered was dubh linn a true explanation of Dublin. Any takers on that one?

spurious · 25-01-2007 03:28PM

Baile Átha Cliath (town of the ford of the hurdles) and Dubh Linn/Dyfflin (black pool) were two different places - not far apart but two seperate settlements. It's not like one is a different version of the other.

Whatever they do with road signs, I wish they would hang whoever came up with Dola Dhroichead (Lord God.....shakes head...).

Better still is Dublin Bus' version of Plás Dúinsméara - Beresford Place - nothing like doing unto them as they did to us.

spurious · 25-01-2007 03:34PM

Hagar wrote:

Nice post Mark. I was waiting for someone to correct the mistaken translation. It took a while.

Although I agree with it one thing always puzzled me, why "dubh linn" and not "linn dubh" as would be the correct syntax. I have always wondered was dubh linn a true explanation of Dublin. Any takers on that one?

In old Irish they sometimes put the adjective before the noun.
Fionn ghall.
Fionn uisce.

aidan_walsh · 25-01-2007 03:42PM

User45701 wrote:

i dont relay get the whole thing people having all this patrotasim stuff is 1/2 the problem in the world me and my country instead of me and my race.

Racism over Nationalism, eh?

ScumLord · 25-01-2007 03:51PM

Keep the signs Irish.

Being patriotic is not a bad thing we should be proud of of culture not ashamed of it I don't want us to become a watered down version of American globalisim.

When I go to France I want to see French people doing French things in a French way and most other people around the world feel the same about Ireland.

But what do I know i am one of those english, some of you love to hate so much.

Don't mention it.

You've got the wrong end of the stick though we don't hate the tans anymore we're just taking the piss in a freindly way, ye're never going to live the occupation down.

Hagar · 25-01-2007 04:01PM

Thanks for the Spurious answer;) .
I never noticed it before but it is common in the older place names.

Marksie · 25-01-2007 04:03PM

ScumLord wrote:

Don't mention it. You've got the wrong end of the stick though we don't hate the tans anymore we're just taking the piss in a freindly way, ye're never going to live the occupation down.

Some is I know that lol, that really doesn't phase me when it is actually in jest if i swung back and said yeah repressing for 800 years and counting then you would take it in same vein... Some of it isn't though.

Marksie · 25-01-2007 04:12PM

Hagar wrote:

Nice post Mark. I was waiting for someone to correct the mistaken translation. It took a while.

Although I agree with it one thing always puzzled me, why "dubh linn" and not "linn dubh" as would be the correct syntax. I have always wondered was dubh linn a true explanation of Dublin. Any takers on that one?

Thanks Hagar... i couldn't quite remember something else so i didn't put it in.. but will mention it now, perhaps someone could confirm.

There were intiially two viking communities, slightly separated. One was a fishing community... was the other one a religious community?

DonkeyStyle \o/ · 25-01-2007 04:27PM

I like the fonts used in the older sign... reminds me of the writing on our oul pre-euro punts. (anyone else miss the old money?)

seansouth wrote:

Get the LUAS much then?

No, never... what's it like?

Hagar · 25-01-2007 04:35PM

Google for "Clo Gaelach Twomey" the font is free to download for private use.

@Donkeystyle LUAS is Irish for Speed. We sneak it in everywhere

ScumLord · 25-01-2007 05:42PM

marksuttonie wrote:

Some is I know that lol, that really doesn't phase me when it is actually in jest if i swung back and said yeah repressing for 800 years and counting then you would take it in same vein... Some of it isn't though.

True, I work with a cockney that can give as good as he gets, it's hilarious. There usually the best slagging matches.

WhiteWashMan · 25-01-2007 06:23PM

Gurgle wrote:

Yeah, because us Irish are so totally ignorant of the rest of the world. Australia, thats some island off New Zealand, right?

interesting point there.

so i point out that its not just everyone else in teh world that doesnt always know something about a foreign country and you come back with some ignorant tosh.
bravo you.

Gurgle wrote:

The places were named in Irish, long before anyone white even found your pointless little desert island off the coast of New Zealand and slaughtered all the natives. The English names were mostly contrived by spelling the place name in English as it was pronounced in Irish..

whats youre point?

that we all live a couple of hundred years ago?
i dont get it. the official languages of ireland are irish and english.

Gurgle wrote:

tbh, dragging the IRA etc. into a discussion about the Irish language shows exactly the ignorance you accuse us of with your bullsh1t about the australian language.

ah, i must have hit a nerve then.
the discussion is not about the irish language, its about signposts on road. i think my point about people living in the past is fairly relevant, especially considering you brought up your history fact.

Gurgle wrote:

Actually, Baile Atha means 'Town Place' Cliath means hurdle or darn according to this dictionary. I think darn is an old word for a valley or something?

The original name was Dubh Linn, meaning Blackpool.

is this you clammering for dublin to be renamed as blackpool? i mean, that is the historical name for it after all.

wind your neck in before i snap it off.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock · 25-01-2007 07:15PM

We have two offical languages, therefore we put both languages on the signs. ALL signs. Is it that difficult an issue? I don't care if they're in the heart of Dublin or the most isolated part of Connemara.

If the Irish-speaking areas wnat to go Gaelic only, then they should a) Campaingn to change the constitution and b) STOP whinging other parts of the country want to go monolingual as well.

And don't give me that culture ****e. "Culture" is the worst possible reason for doing anything.

aidan_walsh · 25-01-2007 07:19PM

"Culture" is the worst possible reason for doing anything.

Whats the best possible reason, out of curiosity?

InFront · 25-01-2007 07:20PM

Logic?

Road signs & Gaelic - time for a change?

Comments