should prisoners be allowed vote

wyndham · 15-01-2007 06:10PM

r3nu4l wrote:

I think prisoners should have the right to vote but to be honest I wonder how many of them would exercise that right?

I would say a higher percentage than in "mainstream" society, given that there is fck all else to do in there and it may provide a distraction for a few minutes.

Was Liam Lawlor still a TD at the time of his incarceration? I can't remember. Should/are prisoners be allowed to hold political office? Wasn't Bobby Sands elected as an MP? Can they run for office?

NotMe · 15-01-2007 08:35PM

No in general. You'd lock someone up for breaking the law and then let them have a say in how the country is run?

Collie D · 15-01-2007 08:43PM

It's a bit of a grey area. Can understand why people would want to deny murderers, rapists, child abusers, etc. the right to vote but there are also people in prison for petty crimes eg non-payment of fines and debts (very Dickensian but true). These people at the lower end surely shoudln't be denied a say in a society they are temporairly removed from.

randylonghorn · 15-01-2007 09:06PM

r3nu4l wrote:

I still think prisoners should have the right to vote. If they don't then you get what happened in the USA with Gerorge Bush effectively rigging the vote to suit himself.

OK, maybe my brain is on strike, but could you explain the link there, please?

Blisterman wrote:

I think they should be allowed vote, so could help change the laws that caused them to be imprisoned.
Imagine Nelson Mandela was able to vote.

And admittedly, here is where we come into a grey area. Should people who are imprisoned for civil disobedience / protesting against what they see as an injustice be deprived of the vote? ... e.g. what about the Greenham Common women / CND protestors / etc. ... would we agree that they should be disenfranchised? I wouldn't, actually, despite being a "no" overall on this, which is why I thought Blue_Lagoon had a good point earlier:

Blue_Lagoon wrote:

If the loss of voting rights are to be a form of punishment, shouldn't that be included in their specific sentencing, rather than just making a blanket rule?

tolosenc · 15-01-2007 11:12PM

They absolutely should not ever be allowed to vote again once they are convicted of a crime. Commiting a crime is breaking the rules of a society. If you break the rules, you shouldn't get any of the benefits. Simple as that.

Collie D · 15-01-2007 11:18PM

obl wrote:

They absolutely should not ever be allowed to vote again once they are convicted of a crime. Commiting a crime is breaking the rules of a society. If you break the rules, you shouldn't get any of the benefits. Simple as that.

So you've never smoked a joint, watched a pirate DVD, broke the speed limit? Sounds like you're a fine, upstanding member of society

Flukey · 15-01-2007 11:38PM

They should be allowed to vote. There was an interesting discussion on this today on Liveline. Fr. Peter McVerry was on and was saying that very few of them would vote, just a handful out of thousands. He also went on to say that the poor don't vote as they only have about 20% of the vote, which makes no difference against the other 80%. Of course this is not the case, under our electoral system. Because of proportional representation and multi-seat constituencies, 20% can easily be enough to elect some candidates.

One vote may not make a difference, but all together, those votes can and do make a difference. Each of us has only one vote, but people do get elected. So votes do count. The "They're all the same and my vote doesn't make a difference" line is ridiculous. It is ironic that many people that constantly give out about politicians never use their vote to change things.

The other ones you hear are "I have no interest in politics" and "It doesn't affect me." Ok, you may not be a member of a party or watch the news or current affairs programmes, but politics most certainly does affect you and like it or not, you do have an interest. Nearly everything around you is affected by politics. Unless you live in a hole in the ground, it affects you, so it is in your interest one way or another.

Mortmain · 15-01-2007 11:43PM

Who ever said that the idea of prison wasto take away someones rights? Whilst it may have that effect, many proponents of the prison system would say that the real aim was rehabilitation. I don't see how completely removing every last hope of one's participation in society will advance this achievement. If the aim of the penal system was purely punishment why aren't all convicts locked up for the whole of thier lives (and fed gruel for that matter).

Given the amount of crooks involved in running the country does it not seem a little ironic to exclude persons from suffrage on the grounds that they have transgressed the law?

P.S. I wonder how many of the "string 'em up" brigrade actually vote themselves??

Kojak · 15-01-2007 11:47PM

Personally I don't believe that prisoners should be allowed to vote.

If they break the law they don't want to comply with the laws of the state -so I don't think they should have any say on who makes the laws for the state.

Our man in Havana · 16-01-2007 01:01AM

Next you will have prisoners running for election.

Kingsize · 16-01-2007 01:18AM

so called Democractic systems are based on "one man one vote" so they should,
(Prisoners that is) personally I don't vote, dont get me started on that one but if someone decided
to take away my right to vote (or not) then i'd be up in arms!
The simplest thing a dictator can do is lock up the "criminals" & deny them the right to vote- never mind what the crime is.

Prisoners going for election?
Not too unrealistic when you think of some of the crooks in power.
the only difference between some of the People
in mountjoy & some of the People in Leinster house is that they got caught.

What would convicted criminal & former minister for Justice Ray Burke do?

hottstuff · 18-01-2007 01:02PM

The only thing they should be allowed to vote on is who gets to drop the next soap in the showers.

arybvtcw0eolkf · 21-01-2007 02:35AM

IMO prisoners should have the right to;

Pi$$, $hit, eat (2000kCals daily), drink (water only) & a bed at night.

And if old people and their dependants can be made pay nursing home fee's then so too should prisoners be charged a daily rate.

I also believe prisoners should be paraded in the mornings and afternoon's to be inspected for cleanliness and soberity & again last thing at night.

I also believe there should be an entertainments hall with a TV, to be viewed at 18:00 & again at 21:00 for the news on RTE and absolutely no TV or Radio allowed in the cells.

All inmates should be made a uniform too.

Only on christmas day should they get a fry up in the mornings & be allowed one hour extra TV.

Sierra Oscar · 21-01-2007 02:40AM

Yeah, but its not as if any of them actually will:rolleyes:

hottstuff wrote:

The only thing they should be allowed to vote on is who gets to drop the next soap in the showers.

Rofl...

randylonghorn · 21-01-2007 02:58AM

Mairt wrote:

IMO prisoners ...etc. ...be allowed one hour extra TV.

If you ever forget to pay your TV license, mate, I hope you don't get a judge whose ulcer is playing him up! :rolleyes:

junkyard · 21-01-2007 02:59AM

As far as I'm concerned, prisoners shouldn't have any rights if they want to live like scum they should be treated like scum. Bread and water, a concrete cell with bars on the windows and straw on the floor is too good for them tbh. If the prisons were like the monkey houses in Thailand they'd be thinking twice before they turned to crime again. Irish prisons are like 4 star hotels compared to prisons in other countries.

arybvtcw0eolkf · 21-01-2007 03:02AM

randylonghorn wrote:

If you ever forget to pay your TV license, mate, I hope you don't get a judge whose ulcer is playing him up! :rolleyes:

I'm a law abidding citizen. I wouldn't even know what the inside of a court room looks like. And FYI, I'll never forget.

lucernarian · 21-01-2007 12:13PM

Criminals are in prison for the common good, not for their own benefit. Why then should prisoners be able to determine how society is governed if they are not allowed to take part in society on any other level?

A definite No from me.

Ickle Magoo · 21-01-2007 01:23PM

If someone is found guilty of any crime that warrants their removal from society, then I think that person should automatically loose the right to vote for the duration they are incarcerated. It seems crazy to me that someone who cannot adhere to the laws that govern Irish society is allowed to elect those that make the laws or vote on a referendum regarding law changes.

I think the argument that prisoners deserve to be able to vote "for their families" is laughable - try not being a criminal & avoid prison if you want to be a good spouse or parent! :rolleyes:

Bottle_of_Smoke · 21-01-2007 02:40PM

Bond-007 wrote:

Next you will have prisoners running for election.

hehe - Bobby

They should be allowed, but part me is afraid Sinn Fein will get more votes.

Not a good reason to deny their right - so a one hundred per cent yes from me.

themole · 23-01-2007 05:55PM

Bottle_of_Smoke wrote:

hehe - Bobby

They should be allowed, but part me is afraid Sinn Fein will get more votes.

Not a good reason to deny their right - so a one hundred per cent yes from me.

Agreed!

What some people seem to be forgetting is how a republic like your works.

Let me come up with an purely hypothetical example. The government comes up with a law against drinking tea. Then the next day arrests half the population for breaching the law. If those "prisoners" are not allowed to vote they are not able to affect the regime that caused them to be arrested in the first place.

The law is driven by the people. When you start to exclude people form that process for whatever reason, being in prison, poor, black, whatever you are in a dictatorship. Saddam Husein was reelected several times, that doesn't mean that most of the people wanted him in power, or that those in prison deserved to be there.

Tar.Aldarion · 23-01-2007 06:33PM

Oh my, the analogies on after hours get better every day.

should prisoners be allowed vote

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