should prisoners be allowed vote

thebaz · 14-01-2007 11:06PM #1

Prisoners can now vote in the next election !
Yes they are still citizens, but i would think it a consequence of losing your freedom , that you also loose the right to vote!

Rb · 14-01-2007 11:10PM

Yes. I believe they should. Despite them having committed crimes and being in prison for good reason, they're still citizens of this country and should have a say in how its Governed and by whom.

Oh and seeing as they've so much time on their hands in their, from reading the papers/watching the tv/etc they're probably more politically informed than some of the voters out there.

InFront · 14-01-2007 11:11PM

Depends on the nature of the crime. there are some people who I wouldn't like to have much say in the running of the country.
I would verge on saying 'no' in general.

Pigman II · 14-01-2007 11:12PM

No. But then I believe most people shouldn't be allowed to vote (myself included).

Alternatively they should let people go in and vote but they also have to answer ten (from an array of 200) randomly generated multiple-choice political questions. If they don't get 8/10 or better then their vote is nullified.

maxi-twist · 14-01-2007 11:37PM

New election campaign:Less jail time for certain offenders.

Dont say it wouldnt happen.

walrusgumble · 14-01-2007 11:43PM

i agree that many would have time on there hands and many use their time in jail usefully. but why should they have the right to vote if they have taken some one else's right to life or to live without fear. however, i would agree with in front that it would depend on the offence, say some one like a druggie.

ok he has done wrong but we should see why he is there in the first place (ok he's choice) but it be better to threat him in a safe place than to expose him to a place where drugs are esy to get.

i might be generalising, but considering some, and i mean some in case the pc brigade come marching in, of the types of people who are in prison, a group like say, oh i dont know sinn fein, might do pretty well.

faceman · 14-01-2007 11:55PM

Yes they should be allowed to vote. On what grounds shouldnt they?

is_that_so · 15-01-2007 12:00AM

Pigman II wrote:

Alternatively they should let people go in and vote but they also have to answer ten (from an array of 200) randomly generated multiple-choice political questions. If they don't get 8/10 or better then their vote is nullified.

I say yes but I do like this suggestion.

Irjudge1 · 15-01-2007 12:01AM

faceman wrote:

Yes they should be allowed to vote. On what grounds shouldnt they?

On the grounds that they have contravened the laws of society as it has seen fit to legislate for and therefore their rights as citizens of that society should be restricted for the period of their incarceration.

Mossy Monk · 15-01-2007 12:03AM

of course they should be allowed

connundrum · 15-01-2007 12:13AM

I cannot say yes (all) or no (all) because there are too many variables. Some prisoners shouldn't be allowed food let alone a vote. Some should be let due to the nature of their crime ie. failed fine payments etc.

60% of me says no though.

randylonghorn · 15-01-2007 12:13AM

No, prisoners shouldn't have the vote. The whole point of incarceration is that they have failed to be responsible members of society and are therefore segregated from it, at least temporarily. It is totally illogical then to give them the right to participate in determining who governs the country.

Pigman II wrote:

Alternatively they should let people go in and vote but they also have to answer ten (from an array of 200) randomly generated multiple-choice political questions. If they don't get 8/10 or better then their vote is nullified.

I do see your point. Only problem is, with voter turnout as low as it is at present, how low would it get if we introduced something like this?

/imagines news item ...

The 20,000 members of the Golden Years party to-day achieved a landslide victory, electing 86 TDs to the Dail. Party policies include (a) closure of all night-clubs (b) curfew of 9 p.m. for under-25s (c) all radio stations to provide at least 10 hours of "Golden Oldie" music programming each day.

Party leaders attributed their phenomenal success to the amount of time which retired people spend listening to current affairs on radio / tv, and reading the newspapers.

Remember the Simpson's episode?

And it could get a lot scarier than that ...

15-01-2007 02:27AM

Citizens should be allowed to vote. If by imprisoning someone you strip them of their citizenship by court judgement and order, then that would be a different matter. To say that some should be allowed to vote and others not, can lead to arbitrary, discriminatory (race, colour, creed, sex, national origin, social status/income, etc.), politically motivated decisons, or those used for personal, occupational gain, and besides, who decides? Big Brother? Some committee with potential religious or other types of bias? These offenders have already been tried, sentenced, and imprisoned. If the loss of voting rights are to be a form of punishment, shouldn't that be included in their specific sentencing, rather than just making a blanket rule?

Since coming to the States over a year ago, I (unlike most US citizens) have read their Constitution and Bill of Rights, just out of curiousity. Did you know that slavery is still allowed in the USA? Prisoners can be treated as slaves! I thought civilized nations had banned slavery over 100 year ago! And as slaves, most of their rights as citizens are stripped away, including voting.

Now, most of these people you imprison will be returning to your community someday. Do you want to isolate them completely from civilized processes, then all of a sudden release them out the door, completely foreign to what constitutes civilized, democratic behavior like they do in America? No wonder in the States they have a nationally reported 67 percent average recidivism rate? People joke over here that prisons are schools of crime. Do we want Irish prisons to be the same? Or should we try to transform these offending prisoners into responsible citizens someday. Provide good citizenship instruction and encourage them to become contributing members of the community, rather than social misfits or dysfunctional preditors?

Sure, some of you will say, why should we use our tax money to transform these offenders? Well, pay now or pay later (after they are released).

Steyr · 15-01-2007 02:34AM

I think its the same in the USA you automatically lose it even when your freed.

admiralofthefleet · 15-01-2007 02:54AM

it depends on the prisoner, if someone is in jail for murder then i think they definitely should not be allowed the privalages a normal citizen has, but its a different story if someone is in jail for not paying their tv license or bin charges

randylonghorn · 15-01-2007 03:10AM

Blue_Lagoon wrote:

If the loss of voting rights are to be a form of punishment, shouldn't that be included in their specific sentencing, rather than just making a blanket rule?

I could easily live with doing it that way; I just don't think that people who have shown contempt for the laws of a state should be allowed to participate in choosing who will make those laws.

Also, I admit that I'm not that familiar with the States, but hypothetically I could imagine that a large state prison located in a small town or rural district could actually mean that the prisoners would be the dominant voting block in that area, and that the prisoners could, in theory at least, choose the local officials?

However, when it comes to the issue of rehabilitation, I completely agree with you ... penal systems in most parts of the world are horrendous from this point of view.

Blue_Lagoon wrote:

Did you know that slavery is still allowed in the USA?

Now THAT comes as a bit of a shock, tbh.

biko · 15-01-2007 03:31AM

They should be able to vote, of course!

A murderer, thief or rapist are free at the end of their sentence and have the same privileges and obligations as any other citizen.

It's a basic human right to be able to influence your leaders (unless you're a woman before 1928 in Ireland or black in Florida in 2000).

randylonghorn · 15-01-2007 03:40AM

biko wrote:

A murderer, thief or rapist are free at the end of their sentence and have the same privileges and obligations as any other citizen.

Yes ... and at that point, their right to vote should obviously be restored.

embee · 15-01-2007 03:42AM

Yes, they should be allowed to vote. They are still citizens of this country and are entitled to vote.

Okay so, their vote for whichever TD in their constituency won't necessarily affect them directly, but prisoners have families who are law-abiding citizens. Surely a prisoner has a right to cast a vote for a TD who, in their own opinion, will do the best job for their constituents/families/children? A man/woman in prison who has children shouldn't be denied a right to vote for whoever would do the right thing by their children.

phantom_lord · 15-01-2007 03:51AM

yep, citizens and all that jazz.

Time Magazine · 15-01-2007 03:55AM

biko wrote:

A murderer, thief or rapist are free at the end of their sentence and have the same privileges and obligations as any other citizen.

Eh.. the whole point of incarceration is to remove their rights due to abuse of their obligations. The first right the State provides for you (before education, health-care, etc.) is freedom. This is taken from them. Incarceration takes away your fundamental right to freedom, and so it should.

If they're not allowed that basic right, who says they have the right to vote? Aside from the European Court of Justice.

I'm going to start a thread in Politics about removing serious criminals' (I'm talking about John Gilligans here) right to citizenship.

KamiKazi · 15-01-2007 05:25AM

Yes they are still citizens, but i would think it a consequence of losing your freedom , that you also loose the right to vote!

absolutely, 100%

hence my "NO" vote

Blisterman · 15-01-2007 10:27AM

I think they should be allowed vote, so could help change the laws that caused them to be imprisoned.
Imagine Nelson Mandela was able to vote.

Tar.Aldarion · 15-01-2007 02:26PM

Their punishment is being excluded from society, their right to vote should be forfeit until their sentence is complete.

No.

StupidLikeAFox · 15-01-2007 03:38PM

Im sure most of them wouldnt really care.

thebaz · 15-01-2007 04:17PM

ColHol wrote:

Im sure most of them wouldnt really care.

I thought it odd to see big expensive half page adds in the main broadsheets outling the new prisoners voters rights -- can't see the Irish Times being top of the reading list in Mountjoy!

Ruu_Old · 15-01-2007 04:43PM

No vote for prisoners, goes with the rest of the punishment. Do the crime, do the time (and whatever else along with it)

r3nu4l · 15-01-2007 05:34PM

I think prisoners should have the right to vote but to be honest I wonder how many of them would exercise that right?

On another note, I believe that people who consistently fail to vote in elections/referenda should be regarded as having opted out of the right to vote and therefore barred from voting for a period of five years. Failure to vote once permission has been re-established should result in permanent exclusion.

thebaz · 15-01-2007 05:53PM

r3nu4l wrote:

On another note, I believe that people who consistently fail to vote in elections/referenda should be regarded as having opted out of the right to vote and therefore barred from voting for a period of five years. Failure to vote once permission has been re-established should result in permanent exclusion.

That seams very harsh - surely if you have the right to vote , you should also have the right not to vote !
What happens also, if you believe your choices to vote for, are rubbish , I don't see a problem with people not voting , if they don't want to .

r3nu4l · 15-01-2007 06:01PM

thebaz wrote:

That seams very harsh - surely if you have the right to vote , you should also have the right not to vote !

Hee hee, it's amazing how upset people get when you take something away from them, even if they have always refused to use it

thebaz wrote:

What happens also, if you believe your choices to vote for, are rubbish , I don't see a problem with people not voting , if they don't want to .

I believe that if you think all the choices are cr*p then you should at least bother your backside to show up and spoil your vote in protest.

If enough people did that and did so intelligently then politicians would see that there are people out there who want to have a say but feel they don't have enough choice.

I still think prisoners should have the right to vote. If they don't then you get what happened in the USA with Gerorge Bush effectively rigging the vote to suit himself.

purple'n'gold · 15-01-2007 06:09PM

The vast majority of the riff raff that make up the prison population would have no interest in voting anyway.

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