Would You Have A Child If...

User45701 · 11-01-2007 06:56PM #1

Ok i was trying to think where this topic should go but looking at the politics forum probably not the best place for it...
If MOD's want to move or whatever go ahead

Anyway my question is if you growing up had a terrible life, always hungry, dirty living in horrible conditions (i am referring to the way people have to live in 3rd world countries)

If you grew up like that would you have a child? would you bring a child into the world knowing that it will not have a good life and will always be hungry?

I don't think i would but then again its easy enough to say that.

Even so the urge to reproduce is not impossible to resist.

Ok i better be clear here.
I am not saying we should steralise everyone in the 3rd world countries but a large part of the problem is the excessive child births is a drain on what little recorces they have (food/water) and they have many babys because the baby's survival is not certain, but having so many babys beause of fears that they will not suruive is why the population is so high. If they reporuduced less then it would be much easyier for us to help them and fix allot of what is wrong in the world. I dont ever expect that we will convince them to have less babys or anything this is just a poll on Would you bring a child into that world?

11-01-2007 07:03PM

No

I think a lot of the problems those in the poorest areas of the world are facing can be traced back to the developed world.

Tak3n · 11-01-2007 07:05PM

Probs alot of them dont know anything about contraception and i imagine alot of rape goes on.

InFront · 11-01-2007 07:06PM

No

Of course I would (or, she would). It isn't the couples' fault their country is poor. 9How poor are we talking by the way?) Those people have little enough as it is, denying their right to children would feel very wrong.

cujimmy · 11-01-2007 07:07PM

As a parent you like to think that your kids will have a better life then you had , so the answer has to be yes

biko · 11-01-2007 07:08PM

As I see it most of these countries are poor because of exploitation from the "first" world. If we were to stop sucking them dry they'd have a chance to build up their own wealth.
Btw, I'm reluctant to rear a child in this country and so would prob not have one if I lived anywhere else.

Killaqueen!!! · 11-01-2007 07:11PM

No

As has been said before, they know little about contraception and even if they knew about it, they probably wouldn't have access to it let alone simple food and water. And again, as has been said those problems could be easily traced back to us here in the First World.

But, if I were in those situations I would have a child. Knowing that I'd be bringing it into a horrible world would kill me but is also in the hope of survival for my family - that maybe at least one of my children will survive and somehow have a happy life.

spurious · 11-01-2007 07:11PM

I Honestly Dont Know

No. If I were to have a child, it would have to be for the child's benefit, not mine. To deliberately have a child knowing I could not take care of it properly would not be something I would do - presuming I had the education and ability to prevent pregnancy.

You don't have to go to the 'Third World' to find people with children that should not be let look after a rock let alone a child.

Pythia · 11-01-2007 07:12PM

Of course the corrupt governments and continual wars have nothing to do with it.
Africa could do a lot more to help itself, but it doesn't try. A lot of people there seem more interested in fighting wars and the arms trade.

Poor people often have kids to make sure they're looked after in old age.
They should embrace contraception and more modern views on sex. That would help. (ie in some cultures they believe raping a virgin will cure them of Aids).

Exit · 11-01-2007 07:15PM

I think it comes down to not knowing about, not having access to, or just not willing to use contraception.

Look at Ireland in its poorest days when families were living in rundown cottages or slums. They still went ahead and had 8 or 9 kids even though it was obviously a huge strain on that family's resources.

It's hard for me to say whether I would or wouldn't, because I've never been in a situation like that.

Nightwish · 11-01-2007 07:26PM

I Honestly Dont Know

Kevin Myers had an article in the Indo last week, about this particular issue. But he said it was irresponsible for those like Bill Gates who give 100's of millions of dollars to fight malaria in Africa, yet have nothing in place for the lives he saves. Each child who either survives malaria, is another hungry mouth to feed. And before people go nuts, these are his opinions, not mine.

InFront · 11-01-2007 07:31PM

No

Nightwish wrote:

Kevin Myers had an article in the Indo last week, about this particular issue. But he said it was irresponsible for those like Bill Gates who give 100's of millions of dollars to fight malaria in Africa, yet have nothing in place for the lives he saves. Each child who either survives malaria, is another hungry mouth to feed. And before people go nuts, these are his opinions, not mine.

He actually makes a valid point, kind of like the way mortality in Iraq is lower than it would have been thirty years ago, but nobody counts the number of the terribly wounded, amputees, etc. Lower mortality carries with it further serious implications.

Ruu_Old · 11-01-2007 07:32PM

This is probably better suited to Humanities but I'll leave it here, if you want it moved let me know OP.

Red Hand · 11-01-2007 07:34PM

People may place greater emphasis on family in the absense of material wealth.

But that is aside the point. If you lived, say, 200 years ago in Ireland as a poor labourer, and you saw how the other half lived (the "quality"), would that stop you from wanting to have children?

There are two issues here. First, there are people in third world countries who want families or large families, and second, there are those that do not want children, yet through culture or whatever "have" to have children. I'm not sure that people would take to contraceptives as easily because of religion ( and yet, religion is often a thing people turn to when they are poor, so its a vicious cycle).

The question is a bit difficult to answer as most of us have not been raised in such an environment, for most of us here are are almost at the level of 19th centuary Irish "quality".

NextSteps · 11-01-2007 07:39PM

Oh stop being so paternalistic.

Dave! · 11-01-2007 07:41PM

No, cos then I'd have to feed the child, thus I would have less for myself (and I presumably would be f*cking starving most of the time anyway).

Unless I had planned to eat the child, then no, I would not start a family in those conditions. Not intentionally anyway. I'd have to pull out.

Red Hand · 11-01-2007 07:42PM

Pythia wrote:

Of course the corrupt governments and continual wars have nothing to do with it.
Africa could do a lot more to help itself, but it doesn't try. A lot of people there seem more interested in fighting wars and the arms trade.

Europe for many centuries could have done the same, but didn't.

Poor people often have kids to make sure they're looked after in old age.
They should embrace contraception and more modern views on sex. That would help. (ie in some cultures they believe raping a virgin will cure them of Aids).

It goes for us First worlders too. Germany, for instance, is trying to encourage people to have more children by giving generous tax breaks to parents, mainly to produce future workers that will subsidise this generation in old age.

Lust4Life · 11-01-2007 07:52PM

Yes, but the life they live is the only life they know.
So this is actually an unfair question. If we lived there knowing all that we know, then, no, none of us would likely consider such a thing.

The same thing with Mexico. They are considered to be very rich if they have a house filled to the rafters with children - regardless of if they can actually afford to feed and clothe them all.

Different priorities in life. Different beliefs. And hey, maybe it's actually us who ought to simplify our standards and beliefs and they're the ones who are right?

I suppose we'll never know for sure since this is a debate without those who live it available to comment.

Fanny Cradock · 11-01-2007 08:27PM

Look at population trends and note how births decline with wealth and, obviously enough, rise with poverty. In a poor society (whatever poor means) offspring are seen as a way of providing some sort of security for you in later life.

Capt'n Midnight · 11-01-2007 08:53PM

Most third world countries have no social security worth talking about and high infant / child mortality. This means you need a few kids to be almost certain one will survive and thrive enough to be able to support you in your old age.

User45701 · 11-01-2007 08:59PM

I Honestly Dont Know

Ruu wrote:

This is probably better suited to Humanities but I'll leave it here, if you want it moved let me know OP.

Id like to leave it here for a few days anyway just to get the votes in when it comes down to just discussion then you might as well movie

Pythia wrote:

(ie in some cultures they believe raping a virgin will cure them of Aids).

I did not know that and that is one of the most wrong things ive ever heard i mean ye people being bombed and killed and murdered and all that ye but raping a virgin if you have aids is pretty bad

11-01-2007 09:08PM

I Honestly Dont Know

How many of the women have a choice about it? Particularly if they're married? I hear saying no to a husband is not an option in some places

11-01-2007 09:30PM

User45701 wrote:

I am not saying we should steralise everyone in the 3rd world countries but a large part of the problem is the excessive child births is a drain on what little recorces they have (food/water) and they have many babys because the baby's survival is not certain, but having so many babys beause of fears that they will not suruive is why the population is so high. If they reporuduced less then it would be much easyier for us to help them and fix allot of what is wrong in the world. I dont ever expect that we will convince them to have less babys or anything this is just a poll on Would you bring a child into that world?

Is this a troll? If not, is this a view that is simplistic, in that it does not fully appreciate the demographic, political, cultural, economic, social, and psychological complexities of living in the 3rd world?

Exit · 11-01-2007 10:38PM

Ruu wrote:

This is probably better suited to Humanities but I'll leave it here, if you want it moved let me know OP.

I have to say that I'm liking the recent trend on After Hours of more intelligent discussion. It's certainly better than the usual fare on here like "What does your poo smell like?"

Endurance Man · 11-01-2007 10:49PM

I Honestly Dont Know

I wouldn't have a child in a first world country tbh, the world is already over-populated and there are thousands of young baby's in need of a home and some loving. The way the teens are producing in this country you're gonna have the same problem as some 3rd world country's in a few years.

AngryBadger · 11-01-2007 11:02PM

I Honestly Dont Know

I think this question is fairly moot. We're applying "western" principles to a non-western situation. I doubt many people in third world countries give much consideration to the logistical wisdom of bringing another hungry mouth into the world.

In order for someone to consider the merit of any action, they have to be aware of the alternatives to, and consequences of that action. With education we become more aware of our own situation and alternatives to it. For a lot of families in third world countries having children is an integral part of their lives. Aside from the "touchy-feely" value of having a child it's a major logistical imperative since kids look after their parents a lot.

In short, I doubt most third world people ever consider not having children as an option.

And before i get flamed for whatever reason I want to point out two things.

1) Education in my view doesn't simply mean finishing school, going to college and all that. It means broadening yourself through in whatever way possible. For some people that means college, for some it means travel, some people broaden themselves simply by talking to new people as often as they can.

2) Plenty of people in developed countries (read:Ireland) have children when they clearly have no business having children. Seems like a reasonable stretch to say the same thing happens in developing/underdeveloped countries.

DonkeyStyle \o/ · 11-01-2007 11:05PM

I Honestly Dont Know

<lower tone of thread>
Nope, I'd make sure I took her up the batty.
</lower tone of thread>

AngryBadger · 11-01-2007 11:10PM

I Honestly Dont Know

DonkeyStyle \o/ wrote:

<lower tone of thread>
Nope, I'd make sure I took her up the batty.
</lower tone of thread>

That's some good lowerin boy

InFront · 11-01-2007 11:16PM

No

But there's no need to tip-toe around this issue, the amount of children that are being born in areas of dire poverty is not helping the situation. And I'm sure the vast majority of people in the third world have never considered not having children, mostly for cultural reasons as opposed to psychology, or religion or anything like that.

Overpopulation simply intensifies the negative impacts of resource maldistribution, there is a greater issue at hand. Of course no single factor is singlehandedly responsible for the World Poverty and it is unrealistic to define overpopulation and poverty only in terms of population growth.

If you get the population down to half, what's to say economic aid or debt relief won't more than halve? But anyway, I'm all for people having less kids.

riskky · 12-01-2007 12:15AM

No

User45701 wrote:

Ok i was trying to think where this topic should go but looking at the politics forum probably not the best place for it...
If MOD's want to move or whatever go ahead

Anyway my question is if you growing up had a terrible life, always hungry, dirty living in horrible conditions (i am referring to the way people have to live in 3rd world countries)

If you grew up like that would you have a child? would you bring a child into the world knowing that it will not have a good life and will always be hungry?

I don't think i would but then again its easy enough to say that.

Even so the urge to reproduce is not impossible to resist.

Ok i better be clear here.
I am not saying we should steralise everyone in the 3rd world countries but a large part of the problem is the excessive child births is a drain on what little recorces they have (food/water) and they have many babys because the baby's survival is not certain, but having so many babys beause of fears that they will not suruive is why the population is so high. If they reporuduced less then it would be much easyier for us to help them and fix allot of what is wrong in the world. I dont ever expect that we will convince them to have less babys or anything this is just a poll on Would you bring a child into that world?

How the hell are you supposed to know that the baby won't have a good life and would always go hungry? The point is you don't and by the way not every baby born in the 3rd world go hungry and "excessive child births" is not the root of the problem.There are poor countries in Africa with less the population of Ireland

User45701 · 12-01-2007 01:26PM

I Honestly Dont Know

Blue_Lagoon wrote:

Is this a troll? If not, is this a view that is simplistic, in that it does not fully appreciate the demographic, political, cultural, economic, social, and psychological complexities of living in the 3rd world?

riskky wrote:

How the hell are you supposed to know that the baby won't have a good life and would always go hungry? The point is you don't and by the way not every baby born in the 3rd world go hungry and "excessive child births" is not the root of the problem.There are poor countries in Africa with less the population of Ireland

Well as i said

User45701 wrote:

My question is if you growing up had a terrible life, always hungry, dirty living in horrible conditions would you bring a child into the world knowing that it will not have a good life and will always be hungry?

Now if you want i will change it to "My question is if you growing up had a terrible life, always hungry, dirty living in horrible conditions would you bring a child into the world knowing that There is a high probability that it will not have a good life and will always be hungry?

This was not ment to be a discussion on what are the causes of poverty sickness hunger in the 3rd world it was for the discussion of reproduction i the 3rd world. There are several reasons why things are bad

Exploitation from the west
Warlords
Over population
Droughts
Famine
Ect.

Endurance Man wrote:

I wouldn't have a child in a first world country tbh, the world is already over-populated and there are thousands of young baby's in need of a home and some loving. The way the teens are producing in this country you're gonna have the same problem as some 3rd world country's in a few years.

Well its not that bad not all of the teens are reproducing at such a young age its mainly primitives although there are some accidents also i am ware of 2 people who decided to have a kid at 18/19 who is preggers now with intention of going on the housing list and getting what they call a "free house"
bollox where is my free house? as long as its that easy to take advantage of our system they will do it but thats not what this discussion is about

DonkeyStyle \o/ wrote:

<lower tone of thread>
Nope, I'd make sure I took her up the batty.
</lower tone of thread>

Nothing like lowering the tone

Would You Have A Child If...

Would You Bring A Child Into The World If You Lived In A 3rd World Country 63 votes

Comments