Access To Pornography Linked To Rise In Rape?

Gautama wrote:

I'm not surprised by this. Banging a prostitute is essentially rape. If the girl/guy had a choice between having sex for €50, or no sex for €50, she/he would chose the latter.

I think you need to look up the definition of rape:rolleyes: . Banging a prostitute high class or lower class is not rape

I get paid every week from work, if I had the choice to get paid without working Id take it. Dosnt mean im being forced to work against my will

Gautama wrote:

You've got a very naive view on this topic. It may not be rape per se, but prostitution is essentially rape. You don't really think the guy/girl wants the intercourse?

No, I know they dont want it, but its still worlds apart from rape
Also, having seen and read interviews with some high class escorts, although for them its not about the sex obviously, but they have said they are happy doing the job they do. Most people wont believe that becuase of the view society has on the sex trade

But really, it depends on how you measure civilised. In terms of science and technology, we are still advancing in leaps and bounds, the future looks terrific. But without wishing to put on any rose tinted glasses, and not personally having lived through a time where I can recall a different Ireland, it is wrong, in my opinion, to say that society has become more civilised. We have simply become civilised in different ways - we are moving laterally instead of forwards.

Sangre wrote:

I think it quite easy to measure, if it wasn't how are we able to condemn actions as good or bad? Anyway, I'll start; equality to genders, races, religion, creeds and sexuality. Removal of any discrimination of these and the promotion of women outside the workplace. Freedom of religion and religious practice. The right to life ( removal of death penalty).

If I throw in something random or out of place here I may be getting mixed up between the 2 threads, and it is late...

I wouldn't measure a civilised society exactly as you would, it varies. At the very least you need to have in place a social structure that respects dignity. The dignity of the community, and of the family, and of the individual. While this extends from the utopian ideal of eliminating murder, paedophilia, street violence and various other 'bad stuff', it basically pivots around the central point of self control and self-discipline: the assumption of responsibility.

The society that we have in Ireland today is not one that exercises self control nor self dicipline, and as such, I would say is uncivilised. Responsibility is some diffuse thing - gangland crime, road deaths, child abuse - the belligerents are a law unto themselves.
Dignity of the individual, his family, and his community are out the window.

Pornography is just one example of this sheer abandon. We see semi naked women all around us, we are smothered with the sale of sex as a marketing tool, in this way sex becomes a thing that can be acquired. You can control it with money and material. I find attitudes towards sex in Ireland very depressing to be honest. To me, it represents one of the ultimate forms of loss of independence, discipline and conscionable actions. There is no desire to rectify this in Irish society, absolutely zero.

These changes in Ireland are only a few decades old, almost non-existent in the 1950s repressed Ireland you have referred to. Do you disagree these are the makings of a civilised society? Or are they unmeasurable?

I would take issue with your suggestion that these things are the mark of a civilised society. Maybe they are, I don't know what route Irish people would like to see be taken on the definition of the family, for example, I think those particular isues are all very fuzzy, I can't say I have personally made up my mind on some of them. The point is simply that there is a much more basic shortcoming in our society that right now runs deeper than women's maternity rights or something. It is a deep absence of respect and self control.
We should work our way up from the bottom.

Why not go further back in time where the possession of pornography was highly illegal and immoral e.g. 19th century. A time of slavery, corruption, huge murder rates (much higher than now), blatant inequality and repression.

I'm not claiming that the 19th century is what we should aim for, of course not. All of the things you mention are the results of self serving, unapologetically selfish attitudes towards one's own self and to his society. This is the stuff of pornography as it is corruption and slavery.

Obviously pornography didn't change these but it certainly does not make a society less civilised. Its growing popularity hasn't seemed to affect Ireland's advancement.

There has never been a perfect society, nor is there one in existence today. However, there are steps that can be taken to limit the promotion of the uncivilised society. Discouraging pornography and various other social misbehaviours, as well as promotion of strength of character, and promotion of family and community values is something that should be improved upon imo.

The 'institution of family' invariably means woman subservient to men, tied to the kitchen place.

I would suggest you re-examine that assertion. I find it a bit bewildering that you see the promotion of a healthy family life, with active parenting, as leading to the inevitable servitude of women. Many people who come from good families with wonderful parents have mothers who work outside the home. I don't know why you would think otherwise, or why you believe mothers cannot balance active parenting with employment.

It also holds no place for the non-heterosexual. I'd would much prefer a nation of individuals rather than groups of 'communities' forcing their morals and standards onto everyone else who resides with them

Surely by its very nature a civilised society does not impose its non-legislative moral values on anybody.