Do you believe......

Sangre · 06-01-2007 07:07PM

Killaqueen!!! wrote:

I'm too young to be questioning my faith..

Eh?

Andrew - faith of atheism equivlent to belief?

Most atheists usually respond that their belief there is no God is the same as the belief there isn't an invisible pink unicorn in the room or the belief the universe rests on a Turtle, they can't prove and they probably won't ever know for certain but they'd still claim they are certain about based on all the available evidence to them. Tbh in this world it is almost impossible to be 100% correct in anything, anywhere except theoretical applications like Maths. Gravity is still only a theory but most people 'believe' in it.

Of course this point is more to do with semantics than substance.

Killaqueen!!! · 06-01-2007 07:10PM

Sangre wrote:

Eh?

oh never mind just me rambling on.

do i believe in heaven and that? yes.

chamlis · 06-01-2007 07:12PM

Sofaspud wrote:

Who started god?

We did. 35 years from now we reprogrammed him to be our protector here, i this time.

faceman · 06-01-2007 07:15PM

Sofaspud wrote:

Who started god?

God didnt start, He just was

Sangre · 06-01-2007 07:20PM

faceman wrote:

God didnt start, He just was

Then why can't the 'big bang' just be as well? Why does someone have to start it?

CerebralCortex · 06-01-2007 07:23PM

Plug wrote:

.....in God, jesus, heaven, religion in general?
I don't believe in any of that stuff anymore and the way science is going it kinda proves the world was started by the "big bang" not by God:rolleyes:
So what are your views?

I'm not a believer in Christian doctrine but how does the big bang prove beyond a reasonable doubt that some didn't create it(the big bang). You sound like a 14 year old how decided it was cool to be atheist.

faceman · 06-01-2007 07:23PM

Sangre wrote:

Then why can't the 'big bang' just be as well? Why does someone have to start it?

Something or someone had to trigger the big bang!

The real question is how many big bangs has the universe been through?

This is earth v10.4

CerebralCortex · 06-01-2007 07:27PM

the Shades wrote:

Religion is a psychological security blanket for those who have trouble dealing with their own mortality. So no I don't believe in it, or science for that matter

Not necessarily.

Sangre · 06-01-2007 07:30PM

faceman wrote:

Something or someone had to trigger the big bang!

The real question is how many big bangs has the universe been through?

This is earth v10.4

There is a difference between someone starting it and something starting it.

InFront · 06-01-2007 07:30PM

Sangre wrote:

it is almost impossible to be 100% correct in anything, anywhere except theoretical applications like Maths.

It is impossible to be certain even in mathematical addition. If you add the same two numbers together one hundred thousand times, and you get the same answer, you are still skating on the possibility that you were wrong one hundred thousand times. In mathematics, just as it is in science, the threat of error gnarls at everybody.

Isn't a non-belief in god (or a god) just as much an act of faith as a belief in god is?

Absolutely, all we atheists or Christians or Muslims or Scientologists or Philosophers or Physicists have is faith.

As much as scientists and mathematicians and theoretical physicists (who are neither really scientists nor mathmaticians:) ) sometimes demand that there is no God, such as in Richard Dawkin's case, they are ultimately basing their trust in their own faith.
As Sangre has said, it is impossible to be certain of anything. To paraphrase Shakespeare, life is just a poor player thats struts and frets his hour upon the stage. Richard Dawkin's demand that religions are incorrect, and he is right, is simply his opinion.

I found it quite funny seeing him on the Late Late Show a few months ago, debating with a Philosophy academic from UCD, attempting to explain why the notion of God is impossible, yet it is "very probable" (verbatum) that there is supernatural life elsewhere in the universe! And that without any proof! Shame on you, Mr Dawkins:p

Anti · 06-01-2007 07:32PM

Stephen wrote:

I'm an atheist, so no.

Same here.

Its just a security blanket to people to be honet. Well thats what i think.

But i have no problem with other people having a religion. Each to their own. But just dont push yours in my face :mad:

CathyMoran · 06-01-2007 07:32PM

I believe in God but I also believe that God was involved in the big bang and evolution and I do believe in the afterlife. I do not believe in imposing my views on anyone. I do not think of the afterlife as a security blanket as I believe that it is probably very hard to get to heaven!

Tar.Aldarion · 06-01-2007 07:33PM

No, I'm not stupid.
Kk.

Dave! · 06-01-2007 07:34PM

faceman wrote:

Something or someone had to trigger the big bang!

So god can just "start" out of nothing, but the universe had to be created by someone? How exactly do you reconcile that contradiction?

InFront wrote:

I found it quite funny seeing him on the Late Late Show a few months ago, debating with a Philosophy academic from UCD, attempting to explain why the notion of God is impossible, yet it is "very probable" (verbatum) that there is supernatural life elsewhere in the universe! And that without any proof! Shame on you, Mr Dawkins:p

When you consider that there are billions upon billions of planets flying around stars, and we only know about a teeny tiny portion of them, it does not seem unreasonable to consider life on other planets as a probable thing. There's no reason to assume that earth is special.

Crucifix · 06-01-2007 07:34PM

No religion for me thanks.

Smellyirishman · 06-01-2007 07:36PM

Well? Why won't he?

Sangre · 06-01-2007 07:36PM

InFront wrote:

It is impossible to be certain even in mathematical addition. If you add the same two numbers together one hundred thousand times, and you get the same answer, you are still skating on the possibility that you were wrong one hundred thousand times. In mathematics, just as it is in science, the threat of error gnarls at everybody.

You could be certainly right, I haven't done any reading on it. But as a theoretical notion, is not right because we say it is right? Although Maths isn't only theoretical, I was merely thinking of it as an example.

Although we do use 'proofs' in maths. Pythagarus' theorum has proof, can it every differ? Its not Pythagarus' Theory. I don't want to get into word play though!

Sangre · 06-01-2007 07:39PM

CathyMoran wrote:

I believe in God but I also believe that God was involved in the big bang and evolution and I do believe in the afterlife. I do not believe in imposing my views on anyone. I do not think of the afterlife as a security blanket as I believe that it is probably very hard to get to heaven!

To be a security blanket It doesn't matter if the person thinks its hard to get into heaven as long as he thinks he will probably get in. ( I obviously don't suppose your thoughts on your success)

Note my respect for Dawkins is mainly for encouraging threads and debates like this. It takes a lot courage and confidence to put yourself out there for so much flax.

CathyMoran · 06-01-2007 07:44PM

Sangre wrote:

To be a security blanket It doesn't matter if the person thinks its hard to get into heaven as long as he thinks he will probably get in. ( I obviously don't suppose your thoughts on your success)

I do not think that I will get in. I am seriously ill at the moment so I am thinking of trying to at least leave a good legacy. It is my gut instinct, a feeling that makes me believe even though I am a scientist (geneicist, engineer and food scientist).

InFront · 06-01-2007 07:51PM

DaveMcG wrote:

When you consider that there are billions upon billions of planets flying around stars, and we only know about a teeny tiny portion of them, it does not seem unreasonable to consider life on other planets as a probable thing. There's no reason to assume that earth is special.

Absolutely, yes. The universe is, quitecertainly at this moment (event!), larger than out comprehension, and supernatural life has a probability attached. But so equally has the idea that there is a God. Why should there be a little green man called an alien, and not a little green man called God/ Allah/ Yahweh/ Elah/ DaveMcG?

What about the impossible evidence that cannot be used, but cannot be disregarded: life before the big bang? We believe that, in modern physical terms, there was no time and no space before the big bang, that all existence was contained in one infintely small dot . Bit what preceded the dot? Previous cycles of the universe? What preceded all that? Surely there is probability attached to the concept that "something" began everything. What began something? The Universe? What began the universe? How long can we go on for!?

It all boils down to belief and personal faith. I love and respect Mathematics, bbut ultimately I have more faith in religion. Others may be atheists and respect Religion, but have more faith in Mathematics. Being the inverse of one another in that respect, doesn not make us absolutely dissimilar. No matter what we believe or disbelieve, we are all people of simple faith.

Sangre · 06-01-2007 07:57PM

CathyMoran wrote:

I do not think that I will get in. I am seriously ill at the moment so I am thinking of trying to at least leave a good legacy. It is my gut instinct, a feeling that makes me believe even though I am a scientist (geneicist, engineer and food scientist).

So think you will probably be sentenced to an eternity of agony and misery in hell?

Tbh, even if I knew there was a God I wouldn't worship someone who could sentence anyone to such a faith because they have failed to worship him correctly. Nothing more than a common depost with an eternal Gulag.

faceman · 06-01-2007 08:01PM

DaveMcG wrote:

So god can just "start" out of nothing, but the universe had to be created by someone? How exactly do you reconcile that contradiction?

Who said God came from nothing? So are you saying the universe came from nothing? of course not.

Smellyirishman · 06-01-2007 08:04PM

InFront wrote:

But so equally has the idea that there is a God. Why should there be a little green man called an alien, and not a little green man called God/ Allah/ Yahweh/ Elah/ DaveMcG?

There may well be a little green man named God. He does not live in "heaven" though, and he does not determine my fate, etc...

Smellyirishman · 06-01-2007 08:05PM

faceman wrote:

Who said God came from nothing?

Em, I believe it was you.

faceman wrote:

God didnt start, He just was

Sangre · 06-01-2007 08:07PM

faceman wrote:

Who said God came from nothing? So are you saying the universe came from nothing? of course not.

Religion. God by defintion (and according to the Bible) is omnipotent and omnipresent, if something existed before he did he isn't omnipresent and therefore isn't omnipotent.

And if 'someone' created God, then clearly he isn't God.

Edit: lol at above.

I really should be studying.

InFront · 06-01-2007 08:07PM

Smellyirishman wrote:

There may well be a little green man named God. He does not live in "heaven" though, and he does not determine my fate, etc...

I say he does
You say he doesn't
Neither of us can convince the other
So I am right in my opinion and you in yours.

Sangre · 06-01-2007 08:12PM

InFront wrote:

I say he does
You say he doesn't
Neither of us can convince the other
So I am right in my opinion and you in yours.

Actually no. Only one of you is right (or both wrong). Your ability to prove it to the other has no bearing on its validity.

Smellyirishman · 06-01-2007 08:12PM

Sangre wrote:

I really should be studying.

That's why your here too eh?

InFront wrote:

I say he does
You say he doesn't

I was trying to get at something else, but I will settle with this!

InFront · 06-01-2007 08:16PM

Sangre wrote:

Actually no. Only one of you is right (or both wrong). Your ability to prove it to the other has no bearing on its validity.

No, what I said was that I am right in my opinion, and in his opinion, he (or she) is right. That doesn't have any bearing on ultimate correctness, which nobody but God knows (in my opinion)

andrew · 06-01-2007 08:18PM

InFront wrote:

I say he does
You say he doesn't
Neither of us can convince the other
So I am right in my opinion and you in yours.

And thats what it all comes down to.

End.

100th post woo! and it only took me 3.5 years. :rolleyes:

Do you believe......

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