Why are we constantly told from various groups that Ireland is racist?

Tha Gopher · 03-01-2007 08:34PM

InFront wrote:

Racism is really just criticism based on a prejudice.
It's one thing for you to say "irish people are more violent when they are drunk" because presumably you understand the dynamics of Irish society and are basing your criticism on valid judgement, rather than a prejudice against Irish people.
If an American, say with Irish heritage, were to make such a remark, well that's racist, because it's criticism based on a preconceived notion that has not been validated: prejudice.
That is exacerbated by the subject of the prejudice being the economic, social or political underdog. We can sympathise greatly with the anti-American sentiments of an Iraqi, but American anti-Iraqi sentiments would probably anger most of us quite a lot. It's about vulnerability.

You as (I am presuming:) ) an Irishman, are neither vulnerable nor ignorant in expressing a disapproving opinion of a bunch of Irish people. I don't know how many Italians you know, but if you were sermonize equally on them, basing your claims only on having visited Italy a few times and met a few Italians in a pub, then I would say yes, the same remark had probably assumed a racist tone.

Well, I work with litreally scores, probably hundreds of people from Med countries. Is that enough experience to make a judgement on behaviour? re an Irish American saying we like a drink, I wouldnt find it racist if a Mexican American said it, never mind some guy who is called O`Reilly because some " no good fcukin mick fcuk" 120 years ago impregnated what is an otherwise 100% Italian lineage

Sometimes it seems to me the people who shout racist on boards are the people who have had the very least experience, either good or bad, with non Irish people. For example, in my old job I served enough customers of all nationalities to learn certain things. tbh the only groups I had 100% negative experience with were the travellers and the roma, everyone else, be they customers or staff, were generally grand. But you cant call someone a racist for saying, for example, Spaniards tended to be less likely to say please and thank you, or hold doors open for fellow customers, less than Irish, Poles or Indian/Pakistani Asians (who I would rate as more polite than Irish- is that an anti Irish statement?). Thats life, deal with it.

Fratton Fred- as I said earlier, just because other countries fcuked themselves over by taking in every Irishman who wanted to come, be he a hard worker, a violent alcoholic, a junkie, a vagrant, a criminal, a waster with a load of welfare dependent kids, it doesnt mean we are historically obliged to follow suit. The Brits have let (and continue to let, judging by their attitude to the notorious Essex campsites) Irish in who are not conductive to the good of the country. Now, we benefited by getting rid of some of the scum, but it doesnt mean we owe anyone a favour for Britains stupidity.

InFront · 03-01-2007 08:53PM

Tha Gopher wrote:

Well, I work with litreally scores, probably hundreds of people from Med countries. Is that enough experience to make a judgement on behaviour?

I would say definitely not. You are working with what 100 - 300 immigrants? From different countries, how many different countries? How does that compare to their home country populations? And you spend how much time with them in their daily lives?

The point I'm getting at is that while that may seem like a significant number to you, their are millions of "mediterraneans" whom you have never encountered, or whose country you have not developed and lived in for any significant period (again, I'm presuming). Until you can identify yourself as a mediterranean, or whatever, you don't really have any place exercising mass judgement of such a society.

Sometimes it seems to me the people who shout racist on boards are the people who have had the very least experience, either good or bad, with non Irish people.

Why does it "seem that way", I wouldn't agree or disagree because Ive never read comments from people who suggest that a certain poster is racist, and thought "they've never met a Polish guy" or "he doesn't know any Romanians". It would be a bit like suggesting someone who didn't like Guinness had probably never been to Dublin, not only is it highly irrelevant, it's also an invalid line of reason. I don't know what would give you the impression you suggest that you have.

For example, in my old job I served enough customers of all nationalities to learn certain things. tbh the only groups I had 100% negative experience with were the travellers and the roma, everyone else, be they customers or staff, were generally grand.

Serving what is, at the end of the day, only a handful of foreign customers, isn't in any way a valid means of gathering data with respect to their social nuances or national behaviour:rolleyes:

But you cant call someone a racist for saying, for example, Spaniards tended to be less likely to say please and thank you, or hold doors open for fellow customers

For saying that in general that was your experience in one store: no
For saying that this is the case with spaniards (often employing the definite article... "the spaniards") is indeed, by its own definition, racist

brianthebard · 03-01-2007 08:54PM

Lil Kitten wrote:

And when talking about taking jobs, it doesn't mean down the local mc Donalds. So naive. The Asians work hard and I have no prob with them. Do you really think that once they're settled they won't try to give their children the best education possible and to get into college and get a decent job?? THAT'S where the competetion lies, 20 years down the line. You can see that in America with the Irish and Jewish in particular.

Wtf? there is competition for jobs no matter what, thats the nature of the workplace. If you can't handle that then thats your tough. I've read over this several times and I really don't have a clue what your point is?

Tha Gopher · 03-01-2007 08:59PM

So how many people do you need to meet before you can make an assumption? 50? 100? 5000? If a Portugese family take a trip to the Algarve and run into hundreds of pissed up Irish and English, they may only be witnessing 0.001% of the Brits and Irish who travel to the med every year, but their behaviour is pretty representative of most between there and Ayia Napa. The term "small minority" is used quite a bit. Before the war we were told only a "small minority" supported Saddam. That those big marches we saw in his hionour were forced, staged. The aftermath of his funeral seems to show that he had significant Sunni support for being a strongman, a leader. Likewise, violent English fans at the world cup are a "small minority". Most who were in Germany will tell you that a significantly large minority were threatening.

Laslo · 03-01-2007 09:04PM

InFront wrote:

Racism is really just criticism based on a prejudice.

No it's not:
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/racism

InFront · 03-01-2007 09:12PM

Tha Gopher wrote:

So how many people do you need to meet before you can make an assumption? 50? 100? 5000?

I don't know, but it certainly is more than what comes down to having served, what is undeniably only a few of them in a shop/ pub etc.

If a Portugese family take a trip to the Algarve and run into hundreds of pissed up Irish and English, they may only be witnessing 0.001% of the Brits and Irish who travel to the med every year, but their behaviour is pretty representative of most between there and Ayia Napa.

No it's not, it's arguably (we can suggest as Irishmen) representative of the kind of person who goes on holiday to Ayia Napa.

However, that same Portugese family probably only didn't meet the Irish tourists who were asleep in their hotel rooms, eating out in restaurants, and basically keeping to themselves and enjoying their holiday. All they would have seen were the loud, outrageous ones, and hopefully, not drawn invalid conclusions from that rather limited experience.

Everyone notices a loud Nigerian woman on a bus, nobody notices the one listening to her headphones down the back.

The term "small minority" is used quite a bit. Before the war we were told only a "small minority" supported Saddam. That those big marches we saw in his hionour were forced, staged. The aftermath of his funeral seems to show that he had significant Sunni support for being a strongman, a leader.

Firstly, this has nothing to do with racism.
The level of support for Saddam amongst the Sunni population in Iraq is actually quite understandable given their current (and proibably future) situation in a Shi'ite nation. I believe that what we are seeing on tv screens is jmore along the lines of Sunnis grieving the end of their rightful position as normal, happy Iraqis, and trepidation for what is coming next for them under a Shi'ite leadership, and not support for barbarism.

And never underestimate the CS Parnell phenomenon either.

Likewise, violent English fans at the world cup are a "small minority". Most who were in Germany will tell you that a significantly large minority were threatening.

Back to racism...
This is where your argument actually discredits itself. We know that most British football fans are not hooligans, right? Correct. So... what the Germans experienced (or allegedly experienced, based on what you're telling us) was a higher proportion of English hooligans relative to the general English football appreciation fanbase who chose to buy tickets for the world cup. Simple as that.

So if a German attested that "British football fans are violent and threatening" based on what he experienced during the world cup, he would be worng. The British football fans who he saw/ noticed, were violent and threatening

Laslo · 03-01-2007 09:14PM

InFront wrote:

For saying that in general that was your experience in one store: no
For saying that this is the case with spaniards (often employing the definite article... "the spaniards") is indeed, by its own definition, racist

No. It's not. Could you please stop using that word if you don't know what it means.

InFront · 03-01-2007 09:20PM

no

Catari Jaguar · 03-01-2007 11:18PM

brianthebard wrote:

Wtf? there is competition for jobs no matter what, thats the nature of the workplace. If you can't handle that then thats your tough. I've read over this several times and I really don't have a clue what your point is?

Someone, I dunno who, wrote about stealing our jobs, which I think is stupid cos there are fcukloads of Irish lazy scammers i would ship outta here. I'd have a country full of Asians and be happy. They are lovely, polite people imo. (Triad thing is scary but thats just what I've read and that's between themselves)

Someone retaliated by saying they only work sh1t jobs our teens would be filling.

I answered to that by saying there WILL be competetion for jobs in future as they try to climb the ladder for decent jobs.

Fcuk it, I'm moving to London anyways. Nicest, most mannerly people I've ever come across, ALL the races there (apart from the homeboys

)

Fratton Fred · 03-01-2007 11:21PM

Tha Gopher wrote:

Fratton Fred- as I said earlier, just because other countries fcuked themselves over by taking in every Irishman who wanted to come, be he a hard worker, a violent alcoholic, a junkie, a vagrant, a criminal, a waster with a load of welfare dependent kids, it doesnt mean we are historically obliged to follow suit. The Brits have let (and continue to let, judging by their attitude to the notorious Essex campsites) Irish in who are not conductive to the good of the country. Now, we benefited by getting rid of some of the scum, but it doesnt mean we owe anyone a favour for Britains stupidity.

migration is part of the 21st century, that was my point.

to quote you again

Tha Gopher wrote:

Thats life, deal with it.

Catari Jaguar · 03-01-2007 11:37PM

InFront wrote:

So you're worried that people from your children's generation would be having to "compete" against those whose parents came from other countries but who are, themselves Irish. So you're worried about competition based on... their skin colour? Their language? This has nothing to do with nationality, but ethnicity.

You know, there's a certain amount of scientific debate about whether intelligence is mainly genetically determined or not. If it is, perhaps you have grounds for concern as I would suggest that your children, if you have them, have got rather a bad deal. Marry a PhD.

I know of lots of Irish people, whose parents have paid precious little taxes, who do just that. It's not an Irish thing. It's not even a Nigerian thing. You claim it's not about that, yet your post is a battering of various races and ethnicities. You don't rant against the scumbags, you rant against the foreign scumbags.

That's maybe why it is called Xenophobia.

I'm aware of Irish scummers. We have enough, we don't need to invite more over. We had low enough crime til Celtic Tiger came and suddenly the world had problems that only our money could heal... We don't need coke addicts, and human trafficking and lebanese loops etc. Jail cells just containing foreigners too now instead.

Also, wtf are you on?? have you read your post?? Competition based on skin colour?? Seriously what are you like?? :Can't find rolls eyes big enough to insert: I don't care about jobs. I was responding to someone elses comment. As long as we get decent, intelligent, hard workers over here who want education and to contribute then please COME IN, take our scumbags in exchange.

WHEN DID I MENTION BEING WORRIED ABOUT JOBS? quote me please???

Course, if you're coming in here to be a criminal, then leave thanks. You won't be missed.

InFront · 03-01-2007 11:47PM

It's just so hard to know what you are actually saying.

The Asians work hard and I have no prob with them. Do you really think that once they're settled they won't try to give their children the best education possible and to get into college and get a decent job?? THAT'S where the competetion lies, 20 years down the line.

Personally I would have thought that the fact you see (even first generation) Irish people who are of a different racial derivation as "competition" suggests that you would view them as not only non-irish because of their ancestry, but also see them as taking traditionally Irish jobs. That to me appears odd.

InFront · 03-01-2007 11:50PM

Lil Kitten wrote:

I'm aware of Irish scummers. We have enough, we don't need to invite more over. We had low enough crime til Celtic Tiger came and suddenly the world had problems that only our money could heal... We don't need coke addicts, and human trafficking and lebanese loops etc. Jail cells just containing foreigners too now instead.

Also, statistically most scumbags are (a) Irish and (b) white in this country, right? So do you often rant specifically about white Irish scumbags?

Catari Jaguar · 04-01-2007 01:01AM

InFront wrote:

Also, statistically most scumbags are (a) Irish and (b) white in this country, right? So do you often rant specifically about white Irish scumbags?

All the time if people will listen, but ranting is pointless unless you're proactive. It's also "prejudice", you know against background etc. You like throwing that word around. But I believe this is a "Why is Ireland viewed as racist?" forum not a "Irish scumbags... Discuss" forum.

Did you read that or did you just wander aimlessly in and start posting the word "racist" after everyone's post?

Statistically most people IN this country are irish and white. What's your point??

Your posts are starting to annoy me as you are obviously so clouded by your own judgement that you are twisting posts. Accusing me of things and know nothing about me.

You sir, are an idiot. Toddle along on your way, there's a good lad.

MooseJam · 04-01-2007 01:15AM

Whats it called if you don't think any race are inferior but you just don't like blacks ?

InFront · 04-01-2007 01:42AM

Lil Kitten wrote:

All the time if people will listen, but ranting is pointless unless you're proactive.

Oh are you proactive on keeping the Nigerians and the Roma out, how do you manage that, is it something to do with a mob?

Statistically most people IN this country are irish and white. What's your point??

Statistically most Nigerians are Nigerian and black. Most of them are not involved with drugs and crime. Therefore most Nigerians are not criminals, therefore Nigerians immigrating into Ireland, so long as the economy can sustain it, is perfectly reasonable.
In fact it makes good, multiculturalist, sense. And I bet you're all for that, aren't you. Even if the Africans do "appear sullen and genuinely frightening".

Anyway, enjoy London man, hope you enjoy life as an immigrant:)

DonkeyStyle \o/ · 04-01-2007 11:23AM

MooseJam wrote:

Whats it called if you don't think any race are inferior but you just don't like blacks ?

negrophobia?

Terry · 04-01-2007 11:35AM

i've gotta head out for a while. i'll be back later to ban some cracker asses.

please read the charter re: calling people racist.

Terry · 04-01-2007 02:16PM

tj-music.com wrote:

Judging a whole nation without ever having met enough of them to justify your opinion is racism - so YOU ARE A RACIST.

I am a non national and I have been living here for 6 yrs and 4 months now and if the Irish would be big time racists I guess I wouldn´t be here anymore. Having said that, I have met more than just the odd racist and had my fair share of verbal abuse and mobbing.

Shame on you

banned.

I'll be keeping an eye on this thread. several of you are very close to being banned.
I know this is After hours, but try to keep it civil, please.

Laslo · 04-01-2007 08:07PM

InFront wrote:

Therefore most Nigerians are not criminals, therefore Nigerians immigrating into Ireland, so long as the economy can sustain it, is perfectly reasonable.

Provided they're given legal status, yes. Do you think that the Afghans in St. Patricks Cathedral last year should have been immediately deported? Or are you the kind of liberal that believes that illegal immigrants, once they get into the country, should be given protection even when they commit crimes... like hijacking a cathedral? I'd just like to know whether you're a sane minded individual or a woolly headed liberal with no real common sense.

InFront wrote:

In fact it makes good, multiculturalist, sense.

Multiculturalism doesn't work. Integration and assimmilation works better I think. Would you agree that someone granted asylum who commits a serious crime should be deported back to their country of origin? If not, why not?

brianthebard · 04-01-2007 08:15PM

Laslo wrote:

Provided they're given legal status, yes. Do you think that the Afghans in St. Patricks Cathedral last year should have been immediately deported? Or are you the kind of liberal that believes that illegal immigrants, once they get into the country, should be given protection even when they commit crimes... like hijacking a cathedral? I'd just like to know whether you're a sane minded individual or a woolly headed liberal with no real common sense.

Would it have been ok if they had been Irish protestors? Seriously, what sort of point is that. "they are using our facitilies, oh noes!!!"

Multiculturalism doesn't work. Integration and assimmilation works better I think.

You base this on???

Would you agree that someone granted asylum who commits a serious crime should be deported back to their country of origin? If not, why not?

If they have been granted legal status in this country they should be legally interned in a prison. If they are granted asylum because they are likely to meet with death or persecution in their home country they should stay here, albeit in prison if they commited a crime.

Catari Jaguar · 04-01-2007 09:08PM

To In Front. saw your Bebo link. So what nationality are you/ or derived from?

I'l respond by saying you are being racist against me. See, I can make no sense and post silly arguements too..

I'd have a right to be in London, I believe it's part of living in the EU.

Terry · 04-01-2007 09:12PM

Lil Kitten wrote:

To In Front. saw your Bebo link. So what nationality are you/ or derived from?

I'l respond by saying you are being racist against me. See, I can make no sense and post silly arguements too..

lil kitten. close the door on your way out. you're banned.
stupid IE tab.
laslo, calm down.

InFront · 04-01-2007 09:40PM

Laslo wrote:

Provided they're given legal status, yes. Do you think that the Afghans in St. Patricks Cathedral last year should have been immediately deported? Or are you the kind of liberal that believes that illegal immigrants, once they get into the country, should be given protection even when they commit crimes... like hijacking a cathedral?

Firstly, if you actually care to find out more about why theese guys were protesting, or what their personal circumstances were, you might actually learn something about compassion. What happened with St Patrick's Cathedral was utterly wrong and it was disrespectful to the Anglican religious leaders and their congregation.
However, Dr John Neill the archbishop, and his deacons, and all of their religious followers were completely gracious and terribly forgiving of that whole affair, far beyond what would be reasonably expected of them or of any community.
They demonstrated at that time as they do still a support (particularly for Muslims in the Dublin 8/ St Patricks catchment area) and a level of human solidarity and brotherhood that I am afraid to say, is beyond the comprehension of too many people on this internet forum.

But anyway, to answer your question, I don't think that people seeking residency as economic migrants (as opposed to asylum seekers) should have their applications furthered should they be found to be criminals. And by the way the priests of St Patricks chose not to press charges against these men, and actually requested that their asylum be granted on its merits

Multiculturalism doesn't work. Integration and assimmilation works better I think.

I would repeat Brianthebards question to you: how do you know? what are you basing your claim on? The concept of "ein volk" has long passed.

And as a minor point, because I don't think it should be made a big deal about apart from at the behest of the poster himself, but I think it is pretty odd that tj-music.com should get banned for what he said given the other stuff that preceded it.

Laslo · 04-01-2007 10:15PM

InFront wrote:

Firstly, if you actually care to find out more about why theese guys were protesting, or what their personal circumstances were, you might actually learn something about compassion. What happened with St Patrick's Cathedral was utterly wrong and it was disrespectful to the Anglican religious leaders and their congregation.
However, Dr John Neill the archbishop, and his deacons, and all of their religious followers were completely gracious and terribly forgiving of that whole affair, far beyond what would be reasonably expected of them or of any community.
They demonstrated at that time as they do still a support (particularly for Muslims in the Dublin 8/ St Patricks catchment area) and a level of human solidarity and brotherhood that I am afraid to say, is beyond the comprehension of too many people on this internet forum.

But anyway, to answer your question, I don't think that people seeking residency as economic migrants (as opposed to asylum seekers) should have their applications furthered should they be found to be criminals. And by the way the priests of St Patricks chose not to press charges against these men, and actually requested that their asylum be granted on its merits

I simply don't understand. Criminals should be treated with compassion. Criminals should be jailed here. Criminals should be deported. You simply aren't taking any stance at all, you're just being emotive and saying what you think humanity wants you to say.

"I don't think that people seeking residency as economic migrants (as opposed to asylum seekers) should have their applications furthered should they be found to be criminals" - However, if they do commit a crime and our hearts start to bleed for them, then we can treat this opinion with as much subjectivity as we like, right?

InFront wrote:

I would repeat Brianthebards question to you: how do you know? what are you basing your claim on?

The fact that multiculturalism hasn't worked in most multicultural societies the world over?

InFront wrote:

And as a minor point, because I don't think it should be made a big deal about apart from at the behest of the poster himself, but I think it is pretty odd that tj-music.com should get banned for what he said given the other stuff that preceded it.

An example or two to substantiate who you think should be banned would be welcomed?

brianthebard · 04-01-2007 10:23PM

Laslo wrote:

The fact that multiculturalism hasn't worked in most multicultural societies the world over?

What fact is that?
Has Britain sunk into revolt since this morning or something? Apart from the riots in Paris last year France was dealing with multiculturalism quite well imo.

Terry · 04-01-2007 10:50PM

InFront wrote:

And as a minor point, because I don't think it should be made a big deal about apart from at the behest of the poster himself, but I think it is pretty odd that tj-music.com should get banned for what he said given the other stuff that preceded it.

The Charter wrote:

Personal Abuse
- Posters who abuse others on here will be banned. Permanent bans will be handed out on a first offence if a moderator feels it is warranted. There is no argument on this one. Abuse someone and you will be banned. Calling someone an idiot is abuse. Don't attack the poster, attack the post.

The Charter wrote:

Arguing with a moderator
- Do not argue with a moderator in a thread after they have given a warning or a ban etc. If you have an issue with a moderator's action then PM the mod in question. They will discuss it with you. You can then, if unsatisfied with the PM route, take things to Feedback.

Giving cheek or attitude to a moderator will get you banned.

Do not under any circumstances complain about a mod on this forum. Do it either on PM or in Feedback.

the previous posts were personal opinions. tj-music.co made a personal attatck.
simple as that.

InFront · 04-01-2007 11:16PM

Laslo wrote:

I simply don't understand. Criminals should be treated with compassion. Criminals should be jailed here. Criminals should be deported. You simply aren't taking any stance at all, you're just being emotive and saying what you think humanity wants you to say.

What are you talking about, why would foreign criminals be jailed here? Why should criminals who are economic migrants be granted residency? I made the point quite clearly that I don't think economic migrants with criminal records should be granted residency. If you didn't catch that already, there it is again.

The Afghan men who you were referring to were neither economic migrants nor criminals. There were no charges pursued.

However, if they do commit a crime and our hearts start to bleed for them, then we can treat this opinion with as much subjectivity as we like, right?

See above, no crime was committed in the eyes of the law. In fact at one stage during the protests the Protestant Church of Ireland called the protest in the cathedral "an invitation" so that the protestors would not come to be evicted by the police. Anyway, the point is that the allegation of crime, in this case, is actually unfounded and any suggestion otherwise disregarded.

The fact that multiculturalism hasn't worked in most multicultural societies the world over?

Before you post on a topic where a level of knowledge in these areas is required, maybe you should read up on your politics, history or sociology.

An example or two to substantiate who you think should be banned would be welcomed?

Well apart from the fact that such an opinion is utterly irrelevant in the scheme of things, I would have thought that was obvious, but if you actually read this thread, there are some pretty clear and obvious personal attacks and racism (against the charter) before tj-music's affirmation that your statement "I am a racist" was correct.

Terry · 04-01-2007 11:24PM

InFront wrote:

Well apart from the fact that such an opinion is utterly irrelevant in the scheme of things, I would have thought that was obvious, but if you actually read this thread, there are some pretty clear and obvious personal attacks and racism (against the charter) before tj-music's affirmation that your statement "I am a racist" was correct.

point them out to me and i'll gladly ban the offenders.
otherwise STFU about it.

dodgyme · 05-01-2007 12:14PM

Lads I think the argument here has gone to pot and looks like never ending. Someone like laslo has obviously travelled and worked in alot of countries and has opinions that have become ingrained and I am sure he never set out to had the attitudes he does but the hard reality faced him and he had to accept that he wasn't going to sit down and listen to a load of liberal rubbish as he saw it. I feel the same in relation to laslo's initial points, latter arguments on St patricks and the afgans etc I havent followed. However when you spend enough time (i.e. over 5 years to start with) just working and being in African/Russia/Asia/South America/Middle east/Pakistan etc your opinions change and infact you initailly start (on trips home) to keep shut on arguments because you suspect you are out of touch with the local irish who talk alot about stuff they know little. In truth ,from experience, you end up having alot of time for certain nationalities and being suspicious of others. With the nigerians coming here however you decide to voice your opinion, you decide to argue against the whole irish 'they are seeking out a better life' scenario as been the norm because you know through things you have seen and heard in that country that it is all a scam. Sitting in hotels in Lagos listening to all this stuff being organised (Ireland inc we used to jokingly ref to it as) and then coming home to look at protests to keep kunle (and his leaving cert) make you laugh at irish innocence. And on the latter point we changed our decision .. why.. oh because of 16 yr olds (who lets be honest aren't well versed in the ways of the world) protesting and then after find out he was involved in some fraud incident with his friends at the airport and was also claiming cash and working when he was not supposed to be .. well whatever. Lucky that is all he was doing and atleast he did work but that is not the point and shouldnt be when a fair and transparent system is needed. Some nationalities (e.g. some poorer polish)arrive here with no money and end up on the streets and this really annoys me by contrast.
In summary...Lads if you talk to people who work around the world (the oil boys, Airline people, bankers, Regional sales personel etc) as I do you will find they have very similar attitude to each of the people and place they have been, and this is paramount in forming their opinions (and also sets them apart from the liberal (and ironically) catholic concensus to our immigration policy.). For example most people I know who liked South africa, Ethopia and Malawi and Tansania or even kenya but loath Nigeria. With the majority of africans making it in to ireland being Nigerian what do you expect these well travelled and opinionated people to say. Agree with the parish priest who welcomes them on a sunday without asking how they got here? Agree with the Irish times who printed twice the amount of propaganda supporting the liberal view on the recent referendum (even though we voted differently)? No they will voice their opinions because they have been there and know more then people who simply read the guardian or the irish times.

Why are we constantly told from various groups that Ireland is racist?

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