Why are we constantly told from various groups that Ireland is racist?

darkman2

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ieno-ictmOQ

Just saw this trash today. Firstly I dont believe for a second that Irish people in general are racist. However the amount of ppl on the liberal side telling us we are has increased hugely in recent years. Why do they say things like this? (and its not just silly cartoons I mean) Is it really for the good for immigrants that we are constantly told as a society we are racist? Or is there something actually sinister about making us believe we are racist. I cant understand it really. They dont want Irish people to be racist yet they drill it into us that we are racist - when obviously the vast majority of us are not. This actually annoys me when people get on TV or whatever and tell Irish people (essentially me and you) that we are racist - but we just dont know it yet.

How this helps their cause I dont know. I think these sort of condescending rants just make Irish people annoyed. We are NOT a racist society. We except many more immgrants per capita then practically any other European country and they are looked after very well in comparison. I thnk we deal with immigrants very fairly. OK there are a few bad apples but stop labelling us a racist country. Its getting tiresome:mad:

Black Swan

Just an example of another broad sweeping generalisation that has no merit. Chill out and have a Guinness. Cheers!

haunted-room

darkman2 wrote:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ieno-ictmOQ

Just saw this trash today. Firstly I dont believe for a second that Irish ppl in general are racist. However the amount of ppl on the liberal side telling us we are has increased hugely in recent years. Why do they say things like this? (and its not just silly cartoons I mean) Is it really for the good for immigrants that we are constantly told as a society we are racist? Or is there something actually sinister about making us believe we are racist. I cant understand it really. They dont want Irish ppl to be racist yet they drill it into us that we are racist - when obviously the vast majority of us are not. This actually annoys me when ppl get on TV or whatever and tell Irish ppl (essentially me and you) that we are racist - but we just dont know it yet.

How this helps their cause I dont know. I think these sort of condescending rants just make Irish ppl annoyed. We are NOT a racist society. We except many more immgrants per capita then practically any other European country and they are looked after very well in comparison. I thnk we deal with immigrants very fairly. OK there are a few bad apples but stop labelling us a racist country. Its getting tiresome:mad:

Well Ireland is filled with racists. I always hear the older generation complaining about foreign people in Ireland. I havnt gone around doing a survey, but, from what I hear and see everyday, racism is alive and weill in this country

danniemcq

haha this title reminded me of stormfront

Karmafaerie

Well I'm not racist....but.......!

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar

most Irish people I've met are pretty racist, but then most people are pretty racist so I suppose it all evens out in the end

The_Minister

The reason that we ar often described as racist is because groups like RAR and the SWP, use different standards to judge racism. They say that since only people of other nationalities are deported, then deportations are inhrently racist, as they involve discrimination. Thus, anyone who spports any deportation whatsoever, is a racist.
I just ignore them, laugh at them, and hope other people do too.

Terry

darkman2 wrote:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ieno-ictmOQ

Just saw this trash today. Firstly I dont believe for a second that Irish ppl in general are racist. However the amount of ppl on the liberal side telling us we are has increased hugely in recent years. Why do they say things like this? (and its not just silly cartoons I mean) Is it really for the good for immigrants that we are constantly told as a society we are racist? Or is there something actually sinister about making us believe we are racist. I cant understand it really. They dont want Irish ppl to be racist yet they drill it into us that we are racist - when obviously the vast majority of us are not. This actually annoys me when ppl get on TV or whatever and tell Irish ppl (essentially me and you) that we are racist - but we just dont know it yet.

How this helps their cause I dont know. I think these sort of condescending rants just make Irish ppl annoyed. We are NOT a racist society. We except many more immgrants per capita then practically any other European country and they are looked after very well in comparison. I thnk we deal with immigrants very fairly. OK there are a few bad apples but stop labelling us a racist country. Its getting tiresome:mad:

be you black, white, yellow, red, green, chinese, japanese, french, belgian, dunboynish etc, i don't care.
what really pisses me off is PEOPLE using text speak when they have a full qwerty keyboard in front of them.
I don't care if you text your friends and use that crap. I just don't want to read it here. seriously, how hard is it to put the extra three letters in?

i suppose that makes me textist.

biko

Effing culchies coming over here and... blah... blah... blah...

darkman2

julep wrote:

how hard is it to put the extra three letters in?

Not very hard at all. How hard is it to put 'letter' in the plural? That really pisses me off;)

I suppose that makes me pluralist!

Terry

darkman2 wrote:

Not very hard at all. How hard is it to put 'letter' in the plural? That really pisses me off;)

I suppose that makes me pluralist!

what are you talking about? it's already pluralised.

Judt

These liberals ought to be careful, lest somebody decides to get their monies worth and this becomes a self-fulfilling prophesy. People aren't racist, they're afraid of change - it's the "Who moved my cheese?" workplace problem, except we don't call a fear of, say, a new procedure at work racism. Racism is the belief that your race is superior to another one - That is, for example, that white people are better than black people in some way, and so forth. This is different from a fear of a changing face of Ireland - Irish people don't want to wipe out or enslave other people because they consider themselves inferior specimens. They're simply worried about the impact of new people on a traditional society. There's a difference there to racism.

It's a multi-faceted debate. Foreign people taking up residence in Ireland need to give a little towards the locals, and the locals have to give a little towards the new arrivals, and we meet somewhere in the middle that's different and - surely in the beginning - strange towards us both. It's the nature of the new society, but fear of change is different to an inherent self-belief in the superiority of the Irish race (err, about half the conquering races of Northern Europe mixed together, so) over others.

thebman

I don't know why they say Irish people are racist because I don't think we are. We have some stupid old sayings that need to go like "worked like a black" etc... but I don't think younger people say that kind of crap.

I saw a show on RTE one day a while ago that made me laugh saying not sitting beside a black person on Dublin bus was racist. I won't sit beside a lot of people on Dublin bus and it has nothing to do with their skin colour. I always sit on my own, one too many bad experiences sitting beside weirdo's, most were Irish if anyone cares.

darkman2

julep wrote:

what are you talking about? it's already pluralised.

Nce edit - btw I never used 'ppl' for 'people';)

darkman2

Judt wrote:

These liberals ought to be careful, lest somebody decides to get their monies worth and this becomes a self-fulfilling prophesy. People aren't racist, they're afraid of change - it's the "Who moved my cheese?" workplace problem, except we don't call a fear of, say, a new procedure at work racism. Racism is the belief that your race is superior to another one - That is, for example, that white people are better than black people in some way, and so forth. This is different from a fear of a changing face of Ireland - Irish people don't want to wipe out or enslave other people because they consider themselves inferior specimens. They're simply worried about the impact of new people on a traditional society. There's a difference there to racism.

It's a multi-faceted debate. Foreign people taking up residence in Ireland need to give a little towards the locals, and the locals have to give a little towards the new arrivals, and we meet somewhere in the middle that's different and - surely in the beginning - strange towards us both. It's the nature of the new society, but fear of change is different to an inherent self-belief in the superiority of the Irish race (err, about half the conquering races of Northern Europe mixed together, so) over others.

I agree.

RE the earlier pont made about old people. Of course they are going to be more sceptical. They grew up in Catholic Ireland when crime was limited and people had more respect and time and teenagers didnt run wild. They hold that ideal dear and I thnk its unfair to label the older generation racist. In many ways I would say they are scared for the future of the country for plenty of reasons.

Terry

Judt wrote:

These liberals ought to be careful, lest somebody decides to get their monies worth and this becomes a self-fulfilling prophesy. People aren't racist, they're afraid of change - it's the "Who moved my cheese?" workplace problem, except we don't call a fear of, say, a new procedure at work racism. Racism is the belief that your race is superior to another one - That is, for example, that white people are better than black people in some way, and so forth. This is different from a fear of a changing face of Ireland - Irish people don't want to wipe out or enslave other people because they consider themselves inferior specimens. They're simply worried about the impact of new people on a traditional society. There's a difference there to racism.

It's a multi-faceted debate. Foreign people taking up residence in Ireland need to give a little towards the locals, and the locals have to give a little towards the new arrivals, and we meet somewhere in the middle that's different and - surely in the beginning - strange towards us both. It's the nature of the new society, but fear of change is different to an inherent self-belief in the superiority of the Irish race (err, about half the conquering races of Northern Europe mixed together, so) over others.

what the hell are you doing posting this in AAH?
It's far too sensible.
on a serious note, great post.

thelordofcheese

darkman2 wrote:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ieno-ictmOQ

Just saw this trash today. Firstly I dont believe for a second that Irish people in general are racist. However the amount of ppl on the liberal side telling us we are has increased hugely in recent years. Why do they say things like this? (and its not just silly cartoons I mean) Is it really for the good for immigrants that we are constantly told as a society we are racist? Or is there something actually sinister about making us believe we are racist. I cant understand it really. They dont want Irish people to be racist yet they drill it into us that we are racist - when obviously the vast majority of us are not. This actually annoys me when people get on TV or whatever and tell Irish people (essentially me and you) that we are racist - but we just dont know it yet.

How this helps their cause I dont know. I think these sort of condescending rants just make Irish people annoyed. We are NOT a racist society. We except many more immgrants per capita then practically any other European country and they are looked after very well in comparison. I thnk we deal with immigrants very fairly. OK there are a few bad apples but stop labelling us a racist country. Its getting tiresome:mad:

ahh come on, it's a joke. A poor joke with a lack of wit or originality, but a joke none the less.
Calm the feck down there.

Manic Moran

I think Judt about hit nail on head when he mentioned the question over just what is racism.

I've always considered Irish people to be generally mildly racist, myself included, if only on a subconscious level. Not out of any claims of racial superiority, but simply because the entire concept of a multi-cultural Ireland is pretty much a recent phenomenon. I didn't grow up that long ago, but it would not have been unusual for me to spend a day shopping in Dublin and not see a single black or Asian person. It's simply a matter of 'different to normal', and being uneasy with such change. There's absolutely no rational basis for it, and I think (with absolutely no scientific basis whatsoever to support this claim) that 90% or more of people realise this and don't let it affect their actions, but human nature is what it is. Of course, as he says, the younger you are, the less likely the changes will affect you. I'll lay bets the sub-30-year-olds have no idea what I'm on about.

NTM

DonkeyStyle \o/

The_Minister wrote:

I just ignore them, laugh at them, and hope other people do too.

Mm-hmm.
I've gotten to the point where I don't even care anymore.
The way in which the word 'racist' has been bandied about at every available opportunity by people looking for attention has really taken the edge off the word for me personally.
It's like The boy who cried wolf.

I think there are effective degrees of racism... and I don't think the woman who wonders if black men really do have large penises should be classified alongside someone who actually believes their own race is superior and all the others need to either leave or die.
It's a serious word with serious implications and the more hyper-sensitive we get about it; the more the word is cheapened.
("Bah bah rainbow sheep" anyone?)

At any rate, I'd describe the Irish more as xenophobic with a dash of begrudging... but I won't because that would make me a racist wouldn't it?

Ickle Magoo

DonkeyStyle \o/ wrote:

At any rate, I'd describe the Irish more as xenophobic with a dash of begrudging...

I'd have to second that - I know very few Irish people that I would clasify as racist in the nasty, "I'm better than you" type of way. I'd go so far as to say most Irish I've had the pleasure of meeting are the opposite & don't hold themselves or their country in as high a regard as they should. Some Irish certainly do seem to have an unhealthy fear of change & those who are not the same as they are.

I think Judt's post has it down to a T...:)

Degsy

We're more xenophobic than racist i think.Peopel will say "f uckin foreigners" as a catch-all term rather than singling out any particular ethnic group.Some WILL specialise however,usually based on a negative experience they've had or claimed to have.What annoys the hell out of me ist the coonsatnt "iniatiatives against racism",which are floated every so often by right-on halfwits who really do beleive that foreigners are pursued down the street by baying gangs of skinheads and klu klux klan members in bedsheets.The gradual assimilation of immigrants will take time and there will be problems but groups like RAR shouuld shut the **** up and let the rest of us get on with our lives.

Sam Vimes

"Why are we constantly told from various groups that Ireland is racist?"


saying irish people are racist is a racist comment

Karl Hungus

That cartoon was nothing short of pathetic. It was incredibly unfunny, and didn't actually address anything.

As for being constantly told about Ireland being racist? It makes headlines it seems.

Anyway, I'd agree with Donkeystyle \o/ and his boy who cried wolf comparison. People like RAR are just making so many baseless accusations of racism that it loses its meaning.

justsomebloke

Degsy wrote:

We're more xenophobic than racist i think.Peopel will say "f uckin foreigners" as a catch-all term rather than singling out any particular ethnic group.

I think you forgot about the culchies aswell, oh and also the knackers and the scumbags and the D4 heads aswell surely you haven't forgotten we hate them too.

seriously though Ireland is not a racist country, as we do not discriminate based on colour or ethnic background or religion or county of birth as we hate everyone equally:D

Mrs_Doyle

Judt wrote:

People aren't racist, they're afraid of change - it's the "Who moved my cheese?" workplace problem, except we don't call a fear of, say, a new procedure at work racism. Racism is the belief that your race is superior to another one - That is, for example, that white people are better than black people in some way, and so forth. This is different from a fear of a changing face of Ireland - Irish people don't want to wipe out or enslave other people because they consider themselves inferior specimens. They're simply worried about the impact of new people on a traditional society. There's a difference there to racism.

It's a multi-faceted debate. Foreign people taking up residence in Ireland need to give a little towards the locals, and the locals have to give a little towards the new arrivals, and we meet somewhere in the middle that's different and - surely in the beginning - strange towards us both. It's the nature of the new society, but fear of change is different to an inherent self-belief in the superiority of the Irish race (err, about half the conquering races of Northern Europe mixed together, so) over others.

You summed up exactly what it was that I wanted to say, and you worded it better then I could have hoped to.

When I was a kid, when I saw a black man, I starred. I starred because he was probably the only black man I had seen, and the only one I would see for a while.
When my little sister was a kid, she was scared of black people, and Chinese people, because she had never interacted with anything but white, Irish, Dublin people.
When 2 black girls came to join my school, when I was in second year, people talked about it.
Rumours spread that the girls were Nigerian, Asylum seekers. (They weren't by the way. They were actually from England and had Nigerian parents, and they certainly weren't asylum seekers.)

Now all of this didn't happen 20, 30 or 40 years ago.
This was 10 years ago, 15 at most.

Our Country has changed so much in the past 15 years. Even the very appearance of our country has changed. Our shops cater for our foreign residents, as do our papers, nightclubs, pubs, etc.
Anyone under 30 will have a fairly liberal attitude to this change, as they grew up within a changing Ireland.

Those over 30, 40 or 50, may not be as liberal, as to them, this might all be a case of too much, too fast.

From having starred at the black man in the street, out of nothing but sheer curiosity, to living amongst thousands of foreign people every day, it is a big change, and as you said, people do not like change.

scojones

"Irish people are racist". What exactly does this mean? Every Irish person is racist? And what's an Irish person? Someone born in Ireland right. There are currently a metric fuckton of different races born in Ireland every day. How could Irish people possibly be racist? You cannot generalise an entire country like this. Sure, certain individuals in Ireland, who are Irish, are racist. The nation as a whole is not. I know some racist people, but I'm not racist so this ideaology sucks.

DonkeyStyle \o/

Karl Hungus wrote:

and didn't actually address anything.

I found that was one of the things that annoyed me aswell... it really didn't seem to have a message, a unique take on things or even a point that I could make out.
And it made Ireland seem like it has a bigger problem with racism than it actually does. (at least from my point of view, but then I don't live every day as a minority race in this country, so maybe they know something I don't... which begs the question- why didn't they share this information with the rest of us?)
I think any country could be branded racist if you loosen your criteria enough.

darkman2

I agree with most of the comments: Racism is down to the scale you choose.

Fratton Fred

I wouldn’t consider Ireland to be racist, just not very politically correct. I'd also say that "Older People" here use terms that could be construed to be racist, but they don't know they are (if you know what I mean).

Also, people are very aware of where someone is from, someone is referred to as a culchie, or a Jackean, or a Northerner. If talking about some it will be “He’s a nice man, he’s from Kerry don’t you know”. When I hear Dubs talk about someone from Belfast, they always put on a Belfast accent, when I hear someone from South Dublin talk about someone from North Dublin, they are a “Northsider” and vice versa.

I’m not sure what it means, but it is an observation I’ve made since living here.

Oh, I would also say that Snobbery here is amazing, but that is a different thread entirely.

mickoneill30

Ireland generally is not racist. But we do have some scumbags.

I've lived in Australia for 5 years and came back last April. My girlfriend is Aussie but is of Asian decent.

So far .....
she's had a scumbag follow her for half a mile through an estate shouting at her to f off back where she came from (using language worse than that). That guy chased her and grabbed her bag. He got a knee in the nuts and a box in the face for his trouble. (She's small but not helpless).
she's had somebody push her when a counter was free (enough to knock her over) in a post office and when she gave out to him the guy said that if she couldn't understand that the teller was calling her she should go back to her own country. (Australia?????). The woman behind the guy who pushed her thought it was very funny. The guy behind her though came forward to help her
she's had kids (I say kids but they were about 18/19) follow her in the street making ching chong noises. Hilarious stuff.

Before this I would have defended Ireland totally. I can't do it so much now. It looks terrible when she's telling these experiences to her family. Doesn't make Ireland look too nice.

Edit: These all happened in Swords. Not the nicest place in the world but I thought the people here were better than that. It never happened to her in Australia (we did live in Sydney though).

tba

I enjoy making fun of everybody, but usually behind their back... Im essentially a coward.