My festive problems (Hand analysis - omaha and holdem)

Imposter · 02-01-2007 03:22PM #1

Hand 1:
In Mullingar during the christmas period. I was in a 5/5 NL game that was playing at a similar level to 0.10/0.20 NL online.

There's an optional 10€ straddle so i'm effectively utg. I have AKo. The straddler is very very loose. He has just bought in for 100 and likes getting it all-in preflop with absolute rubbish. He has threatened it this hand. I decide to call to see what the rest will do but moreso i'm hoping to see this guy push his monster stack in the middle

One caller in mid position and the blinds fold. The straddler checks.
Flop K95 rainbow and 40 in pot.

The straddler checks and I go to bet 30 but mistakenly bet 105 (the top chip on my 25 stack was a 100... oops)

The mid position guy starts to think. He's one of the few decent enough players so I have to think i'm well ahead of his range here. He asks me why I bet so much here and I tell him what I did. I then innocently ask the dealer if I can change my bet to 30 as that's what I meant to do

Surprisingly that wasn't allowed

He thinks some more and then goes all-in. He covers me and i've about 320 more. The straddler folds. Can I call this? Can i fold this? argghh...
I know it's very much a read thing but any thoughts here?

Hand 2:
Back in Austria and we've got a 5€ PL Omaha game going (one 5€ blind).
I'm in mid pos and I limp with AThK2s.
7 see a flop of A94 all spades (so I have the nuts at the moment for anyone who's not concentrating). One check, next guy bets pot (35), one fold and I raise to 100. (Should I have bet pot here or is 100 enough?)

Late position guy thinks and calls. Original raiser folds and it's obvious he's folded a flush.

Turn comes a 4!
Now what?
I've about 420 left and he has me covered.
This guy plays position well and is well capable of using it here! What can/should I do here?

Lafortezza · 02-01-2007 03:42PM

Hand 1, if he's decent enough then I'd lean towards folding. He might be hoping you'll think he's bluffing/try to push you off and that you will get stubborn with TPTK.

Hand 2, you'll rarely make much of a mistake if you bet the full pot in this situation. If you get action then (unless he's a retard) he's probably drawing live and charging him the most is the right thing to do.

How much is in the middle on the turn? about 270? Ugly situation since you've invested too much to bet+fold to a raise. Check and if he bets try to get some kind of a read on him. Obvious hand for him would be a set that filled on the turn, but top 2 or a lesser flush is still possible. How tricky is he? Is he capable of calling with not much and then betting the scare card on the turn?

ianmc38 · 02-01-2007 03:45PM

Hand 1

I probably call.

Hand 2

The flop raise is fine. No need to raise the pot everytime. Edit: Just saw stack sizes. Not sure what to do on the turn. If you bet anymore than half then pot you cant really fold. He could easily be in with the second nut flush here. Meh really need a read on his turn play, but check is probably best.

cardshark202 · 02-01-2007 04:35PM

Hand 1: You have to raise preflop here. As played, I think its a fold if he's decent.

Hand 2: Check/fold is prob the best option.

Imposter · 02-01-2007 05:17PM

Hand 1:
This is my first time playing here and when I say he is decent enough I mean that he is doing things like raising/betting/folding when he should and his bet sizes are normal, silly little things like that. In comparison to most of the others that puts him in the decent category. I was nowhere near long enough on the table to know much more.

I think as soon as he took some time over it I was calling an all-in. That's why I mentioned that I only wanted to bet 30, i wanted him to push. I called he had KJ and his J hit on the river. At the time folding never entered my head but telling others they all said I should have folded, that's why I posted here to see what others thought.

Hand 2:
I bet 150, he pushed I folded.
I think he was capable of the push with top 2 as well as possibly a lesser flush.
I feel I had to bet here. Check folding is way too weak here i think. If I just check then how much of a bet can I call given that I'll probably have to consider calling one on the river too?

I also had no idea how much to bet. A pot bet (or say 200+) means I have to call any raise. A 50 or 100 bet is too little imo and just invites a push. 150 is also too much if I'm going to just fold to a raise!

This is one of those situations in Omaha where i am completely stumped as to what to do. I very rarely have such problems with holdem. Do those of you that play highish stakes omaha have similar problems with your games?

RoundTower · 02-01-2007 06:03PM

Hand 1 I think is a definite call.

Hand 2 I think the bet is terrible against a thinking player, I would check, then if he bets you have a tough spot but it is better than losing 150 like this.

Imposter · 03-01-2007 01:31AM

Hand 2 I think the bet is terrible against a thinking player, I would check, then if he bets you have a tough spot but it is better than losing 150 like this.

OK so where's the limit for calling/raising/folding to a bet with this line? 20? 50? 100?150? 200? pot(270ish)?
What do you do on the river then if you just call and have money left?

By checking you're as good as saying you are finished in the hand. That seems like a very weak line to me!

5starpool · 03-01-2007 01:47AM

Imposter wrote:

OK so where's the limit for calling/raising/folding to a bet with this line? 20? 50? 100?150? 200? pot(270ish)?
What do you do on the river then if you just call and have money left?

By checking you're as good as saying you are finished in the hand. That seems like a very weak line to me!

At a table with 7 to the flop you are never raising 2/3 pot on the flop without the spades, and unless you had a hell of a backhand the turn killed you, so whatever you do you have a tough decision. The best line though is check and depending on the type of player, usually fold. Of course you may still have the best hand, but I think it is unlikely often enough to warrant putting in your money. If you bet hoping that he has a worse flush only then you are usually leaking money in these spots. If he calls the reraise on the flop with only top 2 then he is leaking money most of the time as he cannot call a turn bet with that hand and shouldn't be calling the flop bet either with only 4 improvers.

Hitman Actual · 03-01-2007 12:04PM

Imposter wrote:

Hand 1:
In Mullingar during the christmas period. I was in a 5/5 NL game that was playing at a similar level to 0.10/0.20 NL online.

LOL, so true!

Knowing the game, I think it's a call, but I'd like to know the player (did you catch a name?). TPTK is a big hand in this game, and a lot of the better players do try to push people of pots on the flop. The fact that you didn't raise pre means that they definately don't put you on AK. A hand like K9s is my biggest worry here, but bottom set is also a possiblilty. And the game plays out mostly pre-flop and on the flop; that's when the money goes in, so you cant rule out either 2-pair or 555. But KQ, KJ, or a move with a 9x hand comes up enough here to make it a call, I think.

DeadParrot · 03-01-2007 01:05PM

Imposter wrote:

He thinks some more and then goes all-in. He covers me and i've about 320 more. The straddler folds. Can I call this? Can i fold this? argghh...
I know it's very much a read thing but any thoughts here?

Hand 2:

Hand 1. You play beforehand was looking for a push.

Hand 2: Check/Fold. Any kind of decent bet is committing you to the hand. Or pot/push if you like your flush. Evil turn.

My festive problems (Hand analysis - omaha and holdem)

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