Why are we constantly told from various groups that Ireland is racist?

justsomebloke · 22-12-2006 01:27PM

mickoneill30 wrote:

It never happened to her in Australia (we did live in Sydney though).

I have to say I found sydney quite rasict especially against the aboriginies, but this is the thing nearly every country in the world is rasict it is just what they discriminate against is different

mickoneill30 · 22-12-2006 01:37PM

jsb wrote:

I have to say I found sydney quite rasict especially against the aboriginies, but this is the thing nearly every country in the world is rasict it is just what they discriminate against is different

I thought that too. I presumed my gf didn't have any problems there because there's a higher percentage of Asians there. When I was there it seemed to be Lebanise and Muslims that were receiving the brunt of it.

simu · 22-12-2006 01:42PM

There is some racism in Ireland, alright but I wouldn't say we're much worse than any other country tbh. I'm very sick of all these items in the media of late though, with their breathless "exposés" of racism, hypocrisy etc. It's easy to stand on a moral high ground and denounce this sort of behaviour by parodying it but what does that actually do to solve the problem? Nothing! It just annoys people who are not racist and I don't think it does anything to reform those who are because they probably ignore such pieces anyway.

It's better to tell people to cop on and stop being muppets when they act in a racist manner and so on imho.

ismynametoolong · 22-12-2006 02:01PM

If having a dislike of rather large rude black women, Travellers who seem to be accountable to nobody for their actions Eastern Eurpoeans who drive their uninsured foreign cars while pissed ! Then yes I must be a Racist !

netwhizkid · 22-12-2006 02:02PM

We are told every day we are racist so as to slowly brainwash the society we live in, into becoming a multicultural society. Take for instance the Coca Cola "Designated Driver Campaign" The PC brigade put in the Black guy holding the coke, ah bless, we won't see him DUI I guess, Having Him hold the beer would make Coke Racists. (oh my god I said black, I must be a huge bigot racist)

I have very strong views on Immigration and Multiculturalism, but the way the liberal left behaves on this issue is appalling. It is always the same strategically positioned foreigners in TV shows and that one black person who happens to be in the stand at the 5 a side over 75's all priests indoor charity match will be shown on TV just simply because he happens to be black. Happens everywhere.

The true racists in my opinion are the people who constantly tell us we are racist, these people are racist against Irish people. They would even tell us we owe all nationalities a debt over the Slave trade. The Only slavery I know in Ireland was a village of people in South Cork was kidnapped by Moroccan traders in the middle ages. It is total crap to be honest and racism is to generalised a term anyway. In America for instance black people sing and call each other the word "nigga" but when a White person says it he is a huge racist. It is rather stupid. One thing for certain is that I can see Immigration coming close to the pinnacle of the Agenda next May and this will be the true test of whether or not we are a Racist Nation or not.

I was once asked was I racist, Jeez I never ran a race in my life. However what I have discussed above is great for comedy, damn greeks they invented gayism, Fr. Ted was great. Fascists wear black and tell everybody what to do while priests..... More Drink!!!

Andrew 83 · 22-12-2006 02:10PM

darkman2 wrote:

RE the earlier pont made about old people. Of course they are going to be more sceptical. They grew up in Catholic Ireland when crime was limited and people had more respect and time and teenagers didnt run wild. They hold that ideal dear and I thnk its unfair to label the older generation racist. In many ways I would say they are scared for the future of the country for plenty of reasons.

In fairness crime etc was bad back then, people just didn't talk about it and there was no public debate on it.

I think there is a clear racist streak in a large number of people in this country and that it is unhealthy the way a lot of people deny this to be the case (I used to as well as I'm not etc). The fact is though that you hear a lot of racist jokes, you hear a lot of comments being made towards those who look different, and the fact is that life is not always easy for those who do look different. Many immigrants, and Irish people who look different too, constantly experience negative comments, assaults, and so on purely for the way they look. This is fact and just because it is an uncomfortable fact, or that it happens to a greater extent in other countries, doesn't make it ok.

We should all do everything we can to try and tackle the racism that is present in this country whenever we can. This could even be in small measures like not laughing at racist jokes and making clear that this kind of thing is unacceptable.

It's not just a problem with 'older people' either, I work with children and I find secondary school age children can be particularly bad in this regard.

Hobbes · 22-12-2006 02:29PM

netwhizkid wrote:

We are told every day we are racist so as to slowly brainwash the society we live in, into becoming a multicultural society.

I'd say its nothing to do with that at all and more to do with the fact that a lot of Irish people have no concept of different cultures outside of Ireland/England (and a weekend in spain once a year doesn't count). Until you have actually lived in different countries you wouldn't experience it either.

That would be the majority of it. No malice, just lack of experience.

There is some level of racism in Ireland but I wouldn't say it is on the grand scale and you also have to factor in if it is a hate crime or not.

Lets see, one English guy I worked with (black) routinely got aggro from people in Dublin. He had bricks thrown at his car, he had one group of guys tell him to go back to where he came from :rolleyes: he got aggro in shops and one time got aggro off a gardai who was quite an asshole to him saying he would have him deported until he realised where he worked and then got all apologetic. So it certainly goes on.

So it certainly exists, but lets face it most forigeners have jobs here or study here, so if it was a predominatly racist society that wouldn't be happening.

The PC brigade put in the Black guy holding the coke

NWK I don't know what medication you are on but you need get off it. The picture is called a "Stock photo". Basically advertising company goes to another company like say Shutter Stock, type in a search term then buy the picture and photoshop the rest of it.

If it was all PC ask yourself why isn't there any Chinese in that picture?

Sam Vimes · 22-12-2006 02:38PM

netwhizkid wrote:

We are told every day we are racist so as to slowly brainwash the society we live in, into becoming a multicultural society.

your problem with that being....

netwhizkid wrote:

(oh my god I said black, I must be a huge bigot racist)

no, calling a black person black does not make you a racist, however calling him a n*gger as you suggest below most certainly does

netwhizkid wrote:

I have very strong views on Immigration and Multiculturalism, but the way the liberal left behaves on this issue is appalling. It is always the same strategically positioned foreigners in TV shows and that one black person who happens to be in the stand at the 5 a side over 75's all priests indoor charity match will be shown on TV just simply because he happens to be black. Happens everywhere.

so what? what's your problem with that? they don't want to be seen as racist so they put black people in their ads. would you prefer if black people were portrayed as the bad people in all the ads, lest they offend you?

netwhizkid wrote:

The true racists in my opinion are the people who constantly tell us we are racist, these people are racist against Irish people. They would even tell us we owe all nationalities a debt over the Slave trade.

nobody in their right mind has ever blamed the irish for slavery

netwhizkid wrote:

racism is to generalised a term anyway. In America for instance black people sing and call each other the word "nigga" but when a White person says it he is a huge racist. It is rather stupid.

n*gger is a term that was used to belittle black people for hundreds of years, then they started to use it themselves as a way of defending against it. can you honestly not see the difference between using the word as a term of endearment and as a racist insult?

think about it this way.imagine you and your mates were down the pub and having a laugh about what alcos the irish are and some english guy overheard and started agreeing that the irish are all alcoholic wife beaters. can you see the difference there?

Thirdfox · 22-12-2006 02:43PM

I don't think Ireland had a huge problem with racism (nor does it currently have)... I'm of Asian descent - immigrated here 11 years ago (just before the Celtic tiger sprang

) People were really welcoming then - my little sister used to get cooed at by all the people walking down the street (much like a "western" baby would in China).

11 years on I'm now in college in Ireland - society has changed (it would be ridiculous to expect it not to); I have only experienced the slightest of racism (I can count these experiences on one hand) However I find it sad that sometimes the children in primary school don't realise what the things they say can be quite hurtful "White skin people are better than brown people" as my tearful sister once told me

My impression of Ireland is very good, compared to England - Ching Chong Chinaman remarks were all too common there (I was too small to realise those remarks were meant to hurt me

) But maybe I'm not comparing like with like - I lived in what would be the equivalent of Swords (no offence meant to the good residents of Swords) back in England... nowadays it's all tea, crumpets and golf courses in my area (I wish!).

Something that is present is stereotyping (but I wouldn't call this racism):
Taxi Driver: "Oh so your parents work in Ireland...own a restaurant?"
Me: "Professors in a university actually."
TD: "Oh..."
but hey every ethnic group has its stereotypes (when I introduce myself as Irish abroad the first reaction is that "you couldn't be!" (that's a bit hurtful sometimes) and secondly "why aren't you drunk yet?"

)

I agree with a point that has been made earlier that it's not necessarily racism that's present in Ireland... more like a fear that since the bubble's burst someone, anyone could come and take away your bread and butter. It helps to tell "pure" Irish people (since apparently I'm not "really" Irish in the eyes of some people) that you plan to contribute to the society. And hey maybe they have a point... I'm <only> a naturalised Irish - but that should say something about how much I love this country and want to be part of it that I would actively choose to become a citizen of it!

I find that Asians are normally not picked on by society as stereotypically they are seen as harmless restaurant owners/workers who are hardworking... People from Romania etc. do not get such a favourable stereotype though.

It'll be quite a few years before Ireland becomes the bastion of Stormfront organisers yet!

Fratton Fred · 22-12-2006 02:54PM

Thirdfox wrote:

My impression of Ireland is very good, compared to England - Ching Chong Chinaman remarks were all too common there (I was too small to realise those remarks were meant to hurt me ) But maybe I'm not comparing like with like - I lived in what would be the equivalent of Swords (no offence meant to the good residents of Swords) back in England... nowadays it's all tea, crumpets and golf courses in my area (I wish!).

I'm surprised about that. My friend is married to a Thai girl and apart from th few wisecracks he gets such how much did she cost you etc, she is surprised at how readily she has been accepted, but the area I am from (Between Slough and Reading) was very multicultural.

Thirdfox wrote:

but hey every ethnic group has its stereotypes (when I introduce myself as Irish abroad the first reaction is that "you couldn't be!" (that's a bit hurtful sometimes) and secondly "why aren't you drunk yet?" )

I've had a few wisecracks about being English. I usually ask the person if they can give me some advice on tarmacing my drive.;)

Sam Vimes · 22-12-2006 02:56PM

Hobbes wrote:

If it was all PC ask yourself why isn't there any Chinese in that picture?

his point was that it was "PC" because the black guy had the coke and not the beer, rather than just being in the ad. he's still wrong though

imeatingchips · 22-12-2006 03:00PM

Commander Vimes wrote:

"Why are we constantly told from various groups that Ireland is racist?"

saying irish people are racist is a racist comment

haha funny cos it's true ...

and what's more, most people don't see the irony in the statement. it's prejudice, just like:

"all the nigerians are scam artists"
<add more here>

Thirdfox · 22-12-2006 03:10PM

Fratton Fred wrote:

I'm surprised about that. My friend is married to a Thai girl and apart from th few wisecracks he gets such how much did she cost you etc, she is surprised at how readily she has been accepted, but the area I am from (Between Slough and Reading) was very multicultural.

I'll just put it down to living in the rough part of the council estates then... the English are very nice on the whole!

Never heard of the tarmacing stereotype though... how much do you charge by the way?

*edit: whoops mis-read the bit about the tarmac... so which ethnic grouping should I ask to tarmac my drive then?

lostexpectation · 22-12-2006 03:40PM

the 1,00,000 that march last year re the irish ferries,

racist, protectionist, xenophobic,(international solidarity? larf) pick your choice

tba · 22-12-2006 03:45PM

Judt · 22-12-2006 05:46PM

I wouldn't mind kids (up to secondary school age and into college) making wisecrack comments - if they're not bullying the black kid then they're bullying the kid with glasses, it's a phase that wears off. It's the adults who take it into later life with a bit of a problem - but again, it's fear of change rather than a self-belief of racial superiority we're talking about. There's a distinct difference, in that one is easier to combat than the other, and the former doesn't involve us gassing the population of a named racial minority in this country.

TBH, you're always going to have bigotry at some level - before we had foreigners we had different elements of Irish society all pissing all over one another. Replace Kerryman with black man in a number of Irish jokes and suddenly its racism, if you get my meaning.

The majority of Irish people are not racists. I would guesstimate that the majority are wary of foreigners, but that doesn't equate to "Let's pass the Nurenburg laws double time." There's a distinct difference, as I've said.

Killaqueen!!! · 22-12-2006 06:04PM

I thought Ireland was supposed to be the most racist country in the world. Can't remember where I read it and what sort of statistics there were, but it was probably a stupid arguement.

Though I do think we are very racist. Not in an extreme way, just that we're not 'politically correct' (I hate that anyway...I'm never politically correct apparently).

A lot of my friends are 'racist' but I don't see the racism in Ireland as a huge problem because it's more or less just racist jokes and a lot of people are way too sensitive about that. Just as there are racist comments, there are sexist and ignornat comments - if they're funny I'll laugh at them.

What I (obviously) wouldn't tolerate is racist bullying or abuse. And I haven't seen/heard much of this, although there obviously are such racial crimes in this country as is there everywhere you go.

The problem is people are too sensitive these days. For example, my friend (who is white) is friends with this black dude. My friend said 'Whassup nigga?' to his black friend, mocking him, one day (I've been told he does this sort of thing all the time with him) and the black guy just laughed. He can take racist jokes. Wheras, one day when we were out and I brought a long one of my friends from school, he did the same sort of thing and MY friend got offended but the black guy didn't. She got in a piss and later on went on about how racist the guy was, when the black guy didn't care.

I've been told I've been racist by over-sensitive goodie two shoes who can't take a fricken joke.

Plug · 22-12-2006 06:59PM

When you work with forners there not so bad, just as lazy as us tbh!

Captain Trips · 22-12-2006 07:53PM

Mordeth wrote:

most Irish people I've met are pretty racist, but then most people are pretty racist so I suppose it all evens out in the end

That's the whole truth of it. People like things that are familiar to them, that look like them, act like them and that is the same as much in Ireland as in China or Africa.

As long as you live in a wealthy nation and are white, you are racist until proven otherwise. As we can see in South Africa, Zimbabwe and in Canada now, the reverse is just as true with anti-white racism being common; likewise, Oprah Winfrey's Leadership Academy for Girls in Meyerton, SA is a modern example of this.

When asked am I racist, I can only answer that I am no more racist than you!

Hobbes · 22-12-2006 09:22PM

Commander Vimes wrote:

his point was that it was "PC" because the black guy had the coke and not the beer, rather than just being in the ad. he's still wrong though

Looking at the stock photo it was more likely he was the easiest to photoshop in the bottle.

scop · 22-12-2006 09:45PM

Living in Tallaght I am getting used to most of the new immigrant community. I honestly do not think we are as racist as RAR make us out to be. Overall I would say we are quite a welcoming people, but with a generally cynical nature. The faults of different people are always up for abuse in Ireland, whether they be 'sumbags', 'D4 heads' or 'Nigerians' it is the Irish way to single out bad points rather than good ones. Once we don't allow RAR to dominate the debate we should do OK.

nikolaitr · 22-12-2006 10:17PM

Personally I would take comments from RAR,ANTIFA or ARA Ireland with a huge lump of salt. These gourps make wild accusations like the one mentioned above all the time.

What really turns me off these types of groups is their hypocracy. They claim to fight against fascism yet want to essentially ban people voicing their beliefs.

Now I don't agree with racists but I agree with Rousseau

'I may disagree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it'

andrew163 · 22-12-2006 10:22PM

"I'm not racist, I hate you all equally."

senordingdong · 22-12-2006 10:23PM

I'm not racist.

23-12-2006 02:14AM

lostexpectation wrote:

the 1,00,000 that march last year re the irish ferries,

racist, protectionist, xenophobic,(international solidarity? larf) pick your choice

How exactly do you think it is racist to feel outraged that staff are made redundant for no other reason than that a big fat company wants exploit people by paying them less than half the legal minimum wage to work in abysmal conditions all day every day.

Manic Moran · 23-12-2006 08:53AM

I can see the 'fire the Irish people and get foreigners to work for less' argument, but how did they attempt to justify paying less than minimum wage?

NTM

nikolaitr · 23-12-2006 09:14PM

Manic Moran wrote:

I can see the 'fire the Irish people and get foreigners to work for less' argument, but how did they attempt to justify paying less than minimum wage?

NTM

Well I would argue that is more a case of Bad Business Practice rather than Racism or more correctly Xenophobia.

Kipperhell · 23-12-2006 10:13PM

imeatingchips wrote:

and what's more, most people don't see the irony in the statement. it's prejudice, just like:

"all the nigerians are scam artists"
<add more here>

What if you say things like.
Due to the high corruption levels in their native country it is harder for them to understand they must follow the same rules as everybody else?
As car insurance is not need in their native country they tend not to get it or worry about the NCT or motor tax either
It is normal to carry a knife in their native country so that is why they carry them here.
Their qualifications can't be trusted so must not be believed.

Insert which ever race you think i they can be a about.

It may actually be true! You can call it racist in a blind PC manner but it would miss the point. It can and is being called racist to state certain known issues. Crack cocaine has strong nigerian links in Dublin but you can get reamed for saying it.

As pointed out it is how you gauge racism and it is important to note who is gauging it and why. Residents Against Racism is a great example. The spokewoman and other people in the orgainisation are believers in no borders first and foremost AFAIK and from what I have heard them say. They actually have the goal to disrupt boarder control all across europe. Using racism as a buss word to achive their goal.

Ireland will awlays have racist people but the media blow it out of proportion as people hate to think we are becoming racist.

Mass imigration and the lowering of wages due to this will cause resentment it is simplistic to assume that is racism and not and understandable reaction. Many union jobs are being erroded. Overly simplistic views and PC gone crazy is a bigger threat to the issue than a true racist culture.

A friend had great difficulty with a particular group of people due to a cultural differenece. It was a definite attempt to circumvent the system and they all came from the same country. She now assumes that people from this country will all try and cheat the system the same way. Not once has she been wrong now is it racist to assume the next person from the same country will do the same? Or just realistic?

Another important thing to note is racism can go both ways.

exiztone · 24-12-2006 12:51AM

In a PC light, would it be racist of foreign labourers to say the Irish are rude? To say that would be a generalisation of a group of people in a (I assume) well meaning nation in a negative manner.

Hah, I'll never forget the day the day my boss said "Oh no no no! Bulgaria and Romania are joining the EU in 2007. We're going to be robbed by gypsies!" My boss is Pakistani and I've seen him get the odd racist remark, usually from tramps though. A person like him will never be caught in the limelight though, he's not an easy target.

Are we considered racist because we have some blue collar guys saying they can't get work because of the eastern Europeans? I'd consider that too passive to be racist, and lord knows, when you're hard on your luck, you point your finger and blame someone else.

ferdi · 24-12-2006 03:21AM

as a man once said, "i'm not a racist, i just hate the blacks"

Why are we constantly told from various groups that Ireland is racist?

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