Rossport Situation and Shell. Where is it at?

hmmm · 10-10-2006 05:35PM

proselytiser wrote:

the fact that the governmnent gave away this gas for free (and continues to give exploratory licenses under the same conditions off the donegal and erris coast)

Typical SF sensationalist nonsense, they "gave away the gas for free" my arse. If we didn't put incentives in places for companies to search for oil and gas, who would you propose would drag out a rig to do the prospecting for us - Sinn Fein, Dublin Bus, the Franciscan Sisters of Mary? You'd rather it sits under the sea undisturbed, but at least then it's "our" gas.

proselytiser · 10-10-2006 07:27PM

i assure you i'm not in sinn fein or a supporter of sinn fein. if i was, why would i point out the pathetic support the party has in mayo?

anyway, back to the substantive issue: there was a system in place for many years, and was used in the exploitation of the Kinsale Gas field that allowed companies to make a profit from gas without leaving the irish people with nothing. in this system, the state kept a 50% stake in the field, received royalties of 6% and the company paid corporation tax on their profits. now, there is no state stake, no royalties and the cost of building the infrastructure of extracting and refining the gas can be offset against the tax liability. i think in fairness we can say that companies such as shell are getting a fairly nice deal.

all i'm suggesting is that it is the irish people, by paying 34% more for their gas, are the ones paying for this sweet deal.

constitutionus · 10-10-2006 09:04PM

hmmm wrote:

Typical SF sensationalist nonsense, they "gave away the gas for free" my arse. If we didn't put incentives in places for companies to search for oil and gas, who would you propose would drag out a rig to do the prospecting for us - Sinn Fein, Dublin Bus, the Franciscan Sisters of Mary? You'd rather it sits under the sea undisturbed, but at least then it's "our" gas.

"incentives" are one thing. handing the place lock stock and barrell without even retaining royalties is something else and youve bertie and rambo to thank for that one. we get nothing out of this, we even have to buy our own resoucres back at market rates with no guarenttee they wont flog it to a buyer who'll "shell" out more:mad: for gods sake they can write off all their costs against tax!!

oh and i love how SF have been draged out to smear the protesters by the shell lobby, god forbid theyre actually in the right and the profiteers know it . a better question is where the **** are our local representives in that area? FF you can understand, they sold em out. but enda? pat? theyre both mayo men yet not a ****ing word out of em, kenny even went into hiding when the rossport 5's wives came to him

oh and another question for the self righteous, why havent shell slapped and injunction on the protesters? thats standard practice in these circumstances.

Sully · 11-10-2006 12:21AM

Shell were clearly given permission to continue on with their work. Protestors were refusing to allow them. Gardai were called in to allow the protestors, who had a right to go to work safely, get to work AOK. Protestors refused to budge, lied out in front of the cars, got violent and as a result of one or two cops not being able to handle it and due to the sheer danger invovled extra resources were called in.

I wouldnt call that a very peaceful protest in fairness. Sure they have issues, and sure they are trying to make a point. But is kicking the cops about gonna help? Shouting abuse? Blocking the cars? And as for saying prayers, thats just abuse of religion and a stupid tacketic (sp?).

Im all for a peacefull protest. I dont know the full story about this, and im not taking sides. Im just saying that the Gardai cant just ignore such a protest which would clearly be a lot worse without their presence.

astrofool · 11-10-2006 11:58AM

The deal with Shell over how the Gas money is split up has nothing to do with the health and safety aspect, which is apparantly what the protest is about, and should be a seperate issue.

The Irish government is historically imbecilic when it comes to giving money away (witness the M50 toll bridge).

proselytiser · 11-10-2006 04:44PM

naturally, the main concern is health and safety. however, given you feel the government often act like imbeciles, how do you feel about them spending an estimated half million euro a week drafting in hundreds of gardai from all over the country, paying their overtime and housing and feeding them in the broadhaven bay hotel? all of this expenditure by the government is for shell's benefit. there is no benefit to the government or the irish people.

of course you may counter that the gardai are only there because of the protests. however, the protests/blockades have already been going on for 14 months (without garda presence), and are peaceful, consisting mainly of sit-down protests. of course, there are those who don't consider sitting down on the road as being peaceful. all i'll say to that is that gandhi considered it peaceful, and has been used regularly as a peaceful tactic across the world, so it's good enough for me. if the protests have indeed been in any way violent, why have there been no arrests?

the reason the protests continue is that shell have continued to refuse to address the genuine fears of the affected locals - a vague promise to transport odourless gas through a rerouted pipeline, which will ultimately end up at the same terminal site, and cannot therefore be rerouted in any extensive way, through the same bogland, at unprecedently high pressures is hardly something to allow one to sleep easy at night.

shell is using the spin of vague compromises, backed up by the government in ordering huge numbers of gardai to erris, in order to force this project through 'by hook or by crook'.

\m/_(>_<)_\m/ · 12-10-2006 07:36AM

proselytiser wrote:

how do you feel about them spending an estimated half million euro a week drafting in hundreds of gardai from all over the country, paying their overtime and housing and feeding them in the broadhaven bay hotel?

so true, a complete waste of money... what should happen. if any body breaks the law ( that's blocking local workers for doing a days work ) they should be arrested and thrown in jail, or deported back to their hippie communes in the UK and there dogs with them...

a load of crusties who don't even know what they are protesting against.
all they see is Shell (multinational) and that's good enough for a protest.

\m/_(>_<)_\m/ · 12-10-2006 12:15PM

3 crusties....sorry protesters have been arrested today for breaking the law.

12-10-2006 12:37PM

I wish they would hurry up and build this thing I can't stand the thought of the rest of europe having to pay slightly more for gas
\:)/

12-10-2006 12:54PM

They should make the protestors pay for the Gardai costs.

lostexpectation · 12-10-2006 12:59PM

Roundtower2 wrote:

some of the papers have been noting an atmosphere of intimidation coming from the Sinn Fein lads who are running this towards the locals. Quite a few of the locals appear to be scared to voice their opinion on the matter.

There was a story of some man who went up to see the site with his very young daughter in the car with him, and this crowd of thugs thought they were going to work on the site (because most people bring their two year old daughters to work with them!) and were very scary.

Apparently it is backfiring on Sinn Fein though, as their support in the area is dropping according to that sunday newspaper article.

so you believe eveytthing paul williams writes what , go ahead join his little fantasy playworld.

lostexpectation · 12-10-2006 01:00PM

Deleted User wrote:

They should make the protestors pay for the Gardai costs.

will shell pay for the time they were in jail for no good reason, seeing as shell eventually had to reverse its position.

12-10-2006 01:02PM

lostexpectation wrote:

will shell pay for the time they were in jail for no good reason

But they were jailed because of their contempt for and utter disregard of a Court Order.

themole · 12-10-2006 01:22PM

lostexpectation wrote:

will shell pay for the time they were in jail for no good reason, seeing as shell eventually had to reverse its position.

Afaik shell reversed it position for PR reasons. Legally they did not have to.

If a person fails to agree to obey a court order what are we supposed to do? Have complete anarchy?
Let people disobey court orders because they don't agree with them?
Let people break the law?

\m/_(>_<)_\m/ · 12-10-2006 01:24PM

lostexpectation wrote:

they were in jail for no good reason,

the constitution and laws of the land are no good reason...

great idea...sure let everybody do what they like. in fact why have a police force and justice system at all.

logonapr · 12-10-2006 10:30PM

Real NIMBY situation. The same crew would no doubt be freaking out if they were near the Kinsale field pipeline, Whitegate etc.
Happy to use the electricity that comes from Kinsale or drive around in cars with petrol from Whitegate.
A fewoddballs objected when most had no problem and as usual they attracted a lot of loonies to their cause.
Hope they have a pleasant winter as sure as hell the decision has been taken to not allow them go against the laws of this country,

constitutionus · 13-10-2006 08:45AM

Deleted User wrote:

They should make the protestors pay for the Gardai costs.

actually according to six one news the government admits in the dail its standard practice for the company or concern involved to pay the bill but theyve waived it "in the public interest". and the protesters are paying for the costs, cause unlike shell theyre paying tax:D

oh and by the way latest news is another protesters been taken to hospital. the local ind TD Dr crowleys been treating her, the reports a little conflicting. on the surface it sounds like a heart attack cause she just collapsed at a march from the crossroads and theyre administering oxygen but apparently she's to be x rayed for concussion.

just out of interest anyone know the actuall cost of all this including wages? the 3/4 of a million doesnt include that

Ag marbh · 13-10-2006 09:36AM

Deleted User wrote:

They should make the protestors pay for the Gardai costs.

bahahahaha.

no.

Ag marbh · 13-10-2006 09:36AM

Keep the scum out.

\m/_(>_<)_\m/ · 13-10-2006 10:51AM

logonapr wrote:

Real NIMBY situation. The same crew would no doubt be freaking out if they were near the Kinsale field pipeline, Whitegate etc.
Happy to use the electricity that comes from Kinsale or drive around in cars with petrol from Whitegate.
A fewoddballs objected when most had no problem and as usual they attracted a lot of loonies to their cause.
Hope they have a pleasant winter as sure as hell the decision has been taken to not allow them go against the laws of this country,

so true, those loonies seem to show up at every development that will benefit the public.

nobodythere · 13-10-2006 11:31AM

\m/_(>_<)_\m/ wrote:

gas is going up, oil is going up, ESB is going up,

is seems to me that the couple of local residents (who are looking for more money to comfort their safety concerns) are holding the rest of the country to ransom.

If I remember correctly they were offered a hell of a lot of money to let this go ahead but didn't take it.

The reason we shouldn't be eating up these reserves is exactly because oil/gas/esb is going up. The world can only support a certain population with regards to food. Fertilisers that make it possible to mass-produce food with such a small number of farmers are products of oil and gas. Therefore when oil and gas goes up, cost of food production goes up.

If we did get that natural gas it only serves to prolong our reserves for a few years. The population will increase, there'll be more mouths to feed and when it all gets scarce we're going to leave the next generation with an awful problem that means best case a return to organic farming and worst case, wars over resources and not having enough food to feed the population. It outweighs ploughing pipes through land over anything.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oil_peak

proselytiser · 13-10-2006 02:18PM

logonapr wrote:

Happy to use the electricity that comes from Kinsale...

Of course the locals are - the Kinsale gas is refined AT SEA!!!

constitutionus · 13-10-2006 08:46PM

proselytiser wrote:

Of course the locals are - the Kinsale gas is refined AT SEA!!!

so true, im constantly amazed that people cant grasp that if this pipeline leaks the first anyone'll know about it is when somesone in mayo sneaks a ciggy and finds themselves in orbit!

by the way latest is its a gard that bowled over the ol' wan and hospitalised her. 5ft nothing and 6 stone in weight, bet he's proud

themole · 15-10-2006 07:43PM

constitutionus wrote:

so true, im constantly amazed that people cant grasp that if this pipeline leaks the first anyone'll know about it is when somesone in mayo sneaks a ciggy and finds themselves in orbit!

Surely a drop in pressure in the pipeline would be noticed?

constitutionus wrote:

by the way latest is its a gard that bowled over the ol' wan and hospitalised her. 5ft nothing and 6 stone in weight, bet he's proud

I saw the footage of that incident on the news. She ran into him holding a big cross and fell backwards. She was fairly small and the cross she was holding was quiet large, no doubt that didn't help her balance any.

constitutionus · 15-10-2006 09:00PM

themole wrote:

Surely a drop in pressure in the pipeline would be noticed?

by whom? the gas has to travel 9km before it gets to the station theyre trying to build in ballinaboy. a hell of a lot of gas can get out before they send someone that far to fix it. if they even notice in the first place.

well its sunday, so does anyone think the 750 thousand euro spent in this issue so far by the state is money well spent? and if so when exactly do they expect this issue to be resolved? the protesters arent going anywhere and theyve been there for a year already so how much money do you think berties gonna flush down the toilet on this before its over?

thebman · 15-10-2006 10:33PM

constitutionus wrote:

by whom? the gas has to travel 9km before it gets to the station theyre trying to build in ballinaboy. a hell of a lot of gas can get out before they send someone that far to fix it. if they even notice in the first place.

well its sunday, so does anyone think the 750 thousand euro spent in this issue so far by the state is money well spent? and if so when exactly do they expect this issue to be resolved? the protesters arent going anywhere and theyve been there for a year already so how much money do you think berties gonna flush down the toilet on this before its over?

Auto-saftely shut off to save the day! Do you think Shell wants to kill people, injure people, have a gas pipeline explode?

It makes no sense that they'd want that. They'd much rather get profit from selling the oil/gas than kill people.

I heard the arguments of the protestors on whatever show it was and thought Shell could maybe meet them half way or something and then I heard it on RTE1 radio, an interview with one or two of the protestors and they are mad! They should be locked up. They insist the majority of people in the town want to stop the pipeline but it isn't, they are only a minority of people. One of them said she'd die before she'd let the pipeline be built.

This is utter nonsense. Anyway it's not like the Guards would be doing anything if they were anywhere else anyway.

I'm being honest here. I feckin hate Shell. I refuse to use their filling stations. I've read quite a bit about the crap things they've done but in this case, I think they should be allowed go ahead with the pipeline.

\m/_(>_<)_\m/ · 16-10-2006 08:25AM

constitutionus wrote:

im constantly amazed that people cant grasp that if this pipeline leaks the first anyone'll know about it is when somesone in mayo sneaks a ciggy and finds themselves in orbit!

its obvious from this post you have no idea how heavy mechanical piping systems work and are operated. Or how their auto safety systems and their back up systems work. Or how their monitoring systems operate. No Idea.

and i would say that most of the protesters have the same level of knowledge about piping systems that you have.... none.

and on this level of knowledge they base their protest.... laughable

Rossport Situation and Shell. Where is it at?

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