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Smart going belly up?

1…89101214

Comments

  • #552
    Sponge Bob
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 25,234 ✭✭✭✭Sponge Bob


    Foxwood wrote:
    Eircom didn't cut Smart off so that they could collect on a debt. If eircom had been successful, Smart would have gone out of business, and eircom would happily have written off the 4 million that they allege was owed.

    Correct.

    Eircom have bid over €100m (but under €114m) on a 3g licence and lost .

    If they had managed to crash Smart they would have added another €4m to that bid, in effect, and may then get that licence handed to them by the supine Comreg.

    But it seems their attempt to crash Smart into liquidation may have misfired on them despite their having 500 temporary people in place on Monday last to do winback and telephone call handling to dismantle Smarts customer base by the end of the week.

    Oh and BTW Eircom will be firing 200 winback people by the end of next week and sacking some 100 temporary clerical staff as well.


  • #553
    Sir Oxman
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,492 ✭✭✭Sir Oxman


    Foxwood wrote:
    Eircom didn't cut Smart off so that they could collect on a debt. If eircom had been successful, Smart would have gone out of business, and eircom would happily have written off the 4 million that they allege was owed.

    100% agree. Schysters, schysters, schysters.
    And I am also writing to Dempsey and Goggins and 'Russell Crowe' (eircoms new MD) to express my disgust and utter contempt at what happened this week.


  • #554
    JJDoherty
    Registered Users Posts: 114 ✭✭JJDoherty


    MOH wrote:
    Nice letter JJDoherty :) That thread doesn't work though?

    Thanks, had a look and the thread I started has mysteriously disappeared! Any administrators have any idea what may have happened?

    Anyway started the thread "SmartTelecom, Eircom & ComReg Debacle - My Letter of Complaint" again and it can be found here http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=52162709#post52162709


  • #555
    digitaldr
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,516 ✭✭✭digitaldr


    Heard an ad during the right hook on newstalk. At first it seemed like it was a customer service announcment from Smart - it went something along the lines off:

    Attention all Smart customers, Eircom has agreed to provide you with a temporary service for the next two weeks. You should therefore sign up with Eircom or another provider. Our dedicated freephone lines are open until 9pm

    It certainly didn't make any distinction between bb and voice only services


  • #556
    Sponge Bob
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 25,234 ✭✭✭✭Sponge Bob


    I just heard that eircom have refused to reconnect the disconnected LLU BB customers unless either Comreg or Smart pay them €120 each for the work , cash upfront . Comreg said, thats OK , we don't mind. They have gone home for the weekend now.

    4,000 of the 17,000 LLU customers had been disconnected before eircom stopped doing so on thursday . 13,000 are still OK


  • #557
    rockal
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 757 ✭✭✭rockal


    Latest update from Smart here http://support.smarttelecom.ie/forums/announcement.php?f=3&a=6


  • #558
    DonkeyStyle \o/
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,145 ✭✭✭DonkeyStyle \o/


    Sponge Bob wrote:
    4,000 of the 17,000 LLU customers had been disconnected before eircom stopped doing so on thursday . 13,000 are still OK
    Ouch, I hadn't realised they'd unhooked so many LLU people... that could have been me :eek:
    Thankfully I'm one of the lucky 13k.


  • #559
    Blackdragon
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 652 ✭✭✭Blackdragon


    DonkeyStyle \o/ wrote:
    Ouch, I hadn't realised they'd unhooked so many LLU people... that could have been me :eek:
    Thankfully I'm one of the lucky 13k.

    Amen to both of us for that result.
    Anyone finding there Eirscum copper cannot support the 3mb upgrade. Im operating at 4.75mb.
    Still pretty good though


  • #560
    rockal
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 757 ✭✭✭rockal


    Blackdragon wrote:
    Amen to both of us for that result.
    Anyone finding there Eirscum copper cannot support the 3mb upgrade. Im operating at 4.75mb.
    Still pretty good though

    OK, You win, I'm on 4.2Mbs


  • #561
    the corpo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,799 ✭✭✭the corpo


    if they are going bust, at least they're going out in style!


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  • #562
    constitutionus
    Registered Users Posts: 7,988 ✭✭✭constitutionus


    Blackdragon wrote:
    Amen to both of us for that result.
    Anyone finding there Eirscum copper cannot support the 3mb upgrade. Im operating at 4.75mb.
    Still pretty good though

    still on 3mb, though glad to have it. those poor 4000. ****ers in eircom can move quick when they want
    :mad:


  • #563
    Jor
    Closed Accounts Posts: 156 ✭✭Jor


    Eircon are not the only ones putting the squeeze on Smart.
    I often use Google to check for updates.
    If you type in "Smart Telecom" in Google, the top sponsored link is for a company called Clarity Telecom, trying to take Smart customers as well.


  • #564
    kaizersoze
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,042 ✭✭✭kaizersoze


    From RTE: http://www.rte.ie/business/2006/1006/smart.html
    End for Smart as Murtagh takes over

    October 06, 2006 19:54
    The board of troubled telecoms group Smart is to sell off all of its businesses and assets for €1 to a private company controlled by its largest shareholders Brendan Murtagh.

    A statement said the deal would allow Smart to provide a full service to its 160 corporate and 17,000 residential broadband customers 'effective immediately'.

    Eircom began cutting off these customers earlier this week, having disconnected 40,000 of Smart's fixed-line customers, saying it was owed €4m by the company.


    Mr Murtagh's company, BidCo, will also take on all of Smart's debts, estimated to amount to nearly €40m. Smart will be given a 10% stake in BidCo as part of the deal.

    The deal is subject to approval of shareholders at an EGM. BidCo has received undertaking from shareholders representing 42% of Smart to back the agreement. BidCo will also provide funds to keep Smart going until the shareholder meeting.

    Smart's acting chief executive Ciaran Casey said this was 'a very disappointing outcome' for shareholders, but was the only option.

    Last month, Smart cut 250 jobs after a strategic review. Mr Murtagh, who holds 20% of the company, also agreed to lend the company €2.4m to keep it going.

    Services to Smart's 40,000 fixed-line customers were restored after ComReg and Eircom hammered out an interim agreement. For two weeks, Smart's fixed-line customers will not be able to ring mobile phones or make international calls but they will be able to make national and local calls. They will then have to make alternative arrangements. It's understood Friday's deal does not cover these customers.


  • #565
    Sponge Bob
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 25,234 ✭✭✭✭Sponge Bob


    kaizersoze wrote:
    From RTE: http://www.rte.ie/business/2006/1006/smart.html
    A statement said the deal would allow Smart to provide a full service to its 160 corporate and 17,000 residential broadband customers 'effective immediately'.

    Its not 17,000, its 13,000 according to Comreg who have decided not to bother reconnecting the 4,000 LLU customers that eircom disconnected and set th eir winback scum upon during the week .


  • #566
    Gadgetman496
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,415 ✭✭✭Gadgetman496


    ::INTERNET & TELECOMS
    Murtagh to take control of Smart Telecom
    Friday, October 06 2006
    by Maxim Kelly

    Millionaire entrepreneur Brendan Murtagh has offered to buy Smart Telecom for the grand sum of EUR1, as well as a 10 percent stake in one of his companies, BidCo.

    Construction and property industry magnate Murtagh already owns just under 20 percent of the seriously struggling telco, which had thousands of residential voice customers disconnected by Eircom during the week over a EUR1.7 million debt owed to the infrastructure owner.

    The proposed deal as it currently stands is structured so that Smart will be de-listed from the London AIM market and the firm's shareholders will be offered a 10 percent stake in Murtagh's private company BidCo, which will become the new owner of Smart.

    In a statement released on Friday evening, Smart said 42 percent of its shareholders had committed to the deal. Around 80 percent of shareholders will be needed to approve the transaction, which will be discussed at a Smart Telecom EGM expected soon.

    The disposal recommended by Smart's directors means BidCo will assume Smart's estimated liabilities of EUR40 million.

    The company's interim financial results for the first six months of 2006 showed fixed assets of EUR63 million, liabilities of EUR60 million, and shareholder funds of EUR3.4 million. Smart Telecom said its financial position had "deteriorated further" since June.

    Smart Telecom's acting chief executive Ciaran Casey, who replaced Smart's co-founder Oisin Fanning who stepped down for health reasons recently, issued a statement saying the proposed transaction would allow the company to continue to provide a full service to its corporate and residential broadband customers.

    "While this represents a very disappointing outcome for all shareholders who have supported the company over many years, it is the only option to ensure that shareholders have an opportunity to get some value for their shareholding. The proposal put forward by BidCo will allow Smart to deal responsibly with all its creditors in due course and ensure that a newly capitalised Smart will continue to deliver to its many customers the most competitive corporate and broadband offering in the market," he said.

    A Smart Telecoms spokesman was unable to confirm if a cash alternative would be offered to shareholders if the 10 percent stake in BidCo was not accepted.

    As a condition of the sale to BidCo, five of Smart's current directors will resign from the company's board. These are Ken Barry, Ray King, Paul Sullivan, Maria Pearl Roche and Tormod Hermansen. Kyran O'Dwyer has been appointed acting Chairman until the transaction is voted on by the shareholders.

    Smart has already reduced its headcount from 348 to 100, and last month announced its intention to concentrate solely on broadband rather than on its low margin voice, call card and payphone business units.

    "Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid."



  • #567
    watty
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,417 ✭✭✭✭watty


    I wonder are the Fixed assets valued at real market disposal price, insured value or original cost, or original cost - "industry standard depreciation"?

    The price for their BB package will have to go up, it would be better for everyone if this deal works and Smart Telecom run as a business in itself that has to be viable rather than as a something to be hypothetically bought out. They could probabily halve the workforce again too.


  • #568
    kaizersoze
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,042 ✭✭✭kaizersoze


    No mention of whether they will continue the roll-out or just service existing customers.


  • #569
    Dellas
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 796 ✭✭✭Dellas


    So Smart no longer offer phone call services anymore ?? Is it right that the customers will have 2 weeks to find another phone company for their calls?? If this is true then theres really no point just having BB and not be able to make calls. I presume the costs will go up to for BB. The next best option for a all in package would probebly be BT or UTV.


  • #570
    Prisoner6409
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 666 ✭✭✭Prisoner6409


    dub45 wrote:
    How about a doctor who had moved to Smart and his patients not being able to contact him? and it goes on and on.

    N

    For God's sake. Why not blame the doctor that took out a subscription with a telecoms company not fully established with a firm foothold in the marketplace just to save a few bob. I have no love for Eircom but did you really expect Eircom to subsidise a competitor so they could continue reducing Eircom's customer base. Grow up. As soon as Eircom was privatised the only responsibility it had was to its own customers and shareholders, not its competitors. Plus any doctor I know has a mobile phone number.


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  • #571
    Kensington
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,683 ✭✭✭Kensington


    Dellas wrote:
    Is it right that the customers will have 2 weeks to find another phone company for their calls?? If this is true then theres really no point just having BB and not be able to make calls. I presume the costs will go up to for BB. The next best option for a all in package would probebly be BT or UTV.
    Voice only (Carrier Pre Select) customers only have 2 weeks to find an alternative supplier for their calls. If you have broadband through Smart LLU, you don't have to do anything - the broadband and phone services will stay the same so you'll still be able to make and take phonecalls as before. For anyone who wants to join smart in future though, they won't be able to take just voice service anymore, they will have to take the broadband service aswell. Also, smart do a broadband package with unlimited local and national phone calls included for another €10.99 on top of the BB subscription cost.


  • #572
    simp
    Closed Accounts Posts: 44 ✭simp


    Sponge Bob wrote:
    the 4,000 LLU customers that eircom disconnected

    Can someone please explain to me how eircom had the right to disconnect the LLU lines? I thought that they were Smart property?


  • #573
    PixelTrawler
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,299 ✭✭✭PixelTrawler


    Right, comregs askcomreg site is as clear as mud...
    A mate of mine is on smart ( he has voice call and BB from smart currently - just one bill ) and is wondering...

    If theres 2 weeks to find a new voice call provider ( hes away with work ) ... what if you dont in time. Do you automatically lose voice and BB since the service/line would be cut.

    Or is it a case you would have BB and just no voice call facility until you found a new voice provider? And how long could this situation go on for or would you eventually be forced to choose a voice carrier.

    Strange situation - and comreg could do a lot more to provide some proper consumer advice - part of their remit isnt it. Their so called advice to Smart Telecom customers doesnt answer these questions at all...


  • #574
    kaizersoze
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,042 ✭✭✭kaizersoze


    Joebloggs4817 wrote:
    Right, comregs askcomreg site is as clear as mud...
    A mate of mine is on smart ( he has voice call and BB from smart currently - just one bill ) and is wondering...

    If theres 2 weeks to find a new voice call provider ( hes away with work ) ... what if you dont in time. Do you automatically lose voice and BB since the service/line would be cut.

    Or is it a case you would have BB and just no voice call facility until you found a new voice provider? And how long could this situation go on for or would you eventually be forced to choose a voice carrier.

    Strange situation - and comreg could do a lot more to provide some proper consumer advice - part of their remit isnt it. Their so called advice to Smart Telecom customers doesnt answer these questions at all...
    Read 2 posts up. BB customers will not be affected by the 2 week thing. It only affects customers who use Smart for calls only and do not have Smart BB. Smart LLU BB customers will continue to have voice services.


  • #575
    dub45
    Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 12,450 Mod ✭✭✭✭dub45


    Prisoner6409 wrote:
    For God's sake. Why not blame the doctor that took out a subscription with a telecoms company not fully established with a firm foothold in the marketplace just to save a few bob. I have no love for Eircom but did you really expect Eircom to subsidise a competitor so they could continue reducing Eircom's customer base. Grow up. As soon as Eircom was privatised the only responsibility it had was to its own customers and shareholders, not its competitors. Plus any doctor I know has a mobile phone number.

    Do you ever stop to think about the control over the network that Eircom has?

    There should be a plan in place that in the event of a dispute such as this communications are not disrupted. There are plenty of remedies open to Eircom to pursue debt without the type of disruptions they inflicted this week including on their own customers.

    If you did stop to think you would realise that the logical outcome of your outburst is that everyone stays with Eircom and there is no competition at all:rolleyes.

    And there are plenty of not so well off people out there who will not ring a mobile number.


  • #576
    PixelTrawler
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,299 ✭✭✭PixelTrawler


    kaizersoze wrote:
    Read 2 posts up. BB customers will not be affected by the 2 week thing. It only affects customers who use Smart for calls only and do not have Smart BB. Smart LLU BB customers will continue to have voice services.

    Cheers - never spotted that post as I was writing...


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  • #577
    Kensington
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,683 ✭✭✭Kensington


    simp wrote:
    Can someone please explain to me how eircom had the right to disconnect the LLU lines? I thought that they were Smart property?
    Because Smart wasn't paying the LLU rental for the lines. Smart don't own the physical copper from the exchange to your house, only the equipment in the exchange that the line connects to. They have to pay Eircom so much per month to "rent" the copper to connect customers with. Eircom therefore had the right to disconnect lines of smart due to the non-payment - what they do not have the right to do though, is to automatically re-connect all disconnected Smart broadband customers to eircom which is what they seem to have done to the 4000 disconnected customers.


  • #578
    Sponge Bob
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 25,234 ✭✭✭✭Sponge Bob


    Eircom cut the 4000 off anyway and then they ADVISED Comreg that they were doing it .

    Comreg have repeated that advice from eircom at the bottom of this page here....without telling anybody that they are repeating Eircoms advice to them rather than advising the 4000 affected customers themselves.

    Comreg also lied to the Irish Times yesterday when they said (Commissioner Doherty) that all affected customer would be restored to some degree by midday yesterday, the 4000 LLU customers wheo were diconnected are still disconnected and will remain disconnected because Comreg refuse to make eircom connect them. Its not the job of Comreg to ensure that people have telecommunications services, this is Ireland after all.

    Hope thats clear.

    email consumerline@comreg.ie for more 'advice


  • #579
    shayser
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,650 ✭✭✭shayser


    What's the story with these "Public Service Announcement" advertisements from eircom. There no public service about it. They are yet another underhand attempt to hoodwink people back to eircom.

    I complained to the ASAI as follows.


    The broadcast opens by describing itself as a public service announcement. As it progresses, it becomes clear that it is not merely this, but is actually an advertisement for Eircom. Although not explicit, I belive that the broadcast attempts to give the impression that Smart Telecom customers must/should buy an Eircom product in order to have any telephone/broadband internet service. The "helpline" published in the advertisement is, in all reality, a "salesline".


  • #580
    JNive
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 994 ✭✭✭JNive


    ive heard this add about an hour ago on red fm. It says its a public service announcement on behalf of smart telecom customers LOL.

    then it goes on that customers have been given a 2 week temporary service by eircom,and that they should "choose eircom or another alternative provider" within this time.

    It again makes no distinction about LLU and WLR/CPS and gives people the impression that all services on smart are being discontinued, furthermore, it gives preference to eircom as is clear by the quote above.

    Also, public service announcements should only be coming from goverment and state-owned agencies really lol


  • #581
    miju
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 8,486 ✭✭✭miju


    i really dont get what all the eircom bashing is all about?

    it's really quite simple smart didn't pay their bills they got disconnected , turns our smart has no money and is millions in debt so eircom and a few other telecom companies circle smart to pick off their customers

    sounds like perfectly normal business practice to me?? thats 40,000 potential customers for eircom or for another telecom company whu wouldn't they try to take advantage?


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  • #582
    JNive
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 994 ✭✭✭JNive


    the fact that they CAN take advantage like this, and that eircom were able to assist this event occuring is the problem.


  • #583
    constitutionus
    Registered Users Posts: 7,988 ✭✭✭constitutionus


    its a dirty tricks campaign pure and simple. eircom have done everything since day one to frustrate competition in the market. as was mentioned look who quickly they disconnected people while if you wanted connection it took 2 months. you can take your phone number from any mobile network to another yet you cant take your eircom number to smart, why?

    and finally the day they do this eircom offer a 10 euro discount on their broadband product, bit of a coincidence isnt it.


  • #584
    JNive
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 994 ✭✭✭JNive


    and thei excellent public service announcement which is very halpful by advising people that they need to choose eircom or another alternative provider and kindly provding their sales line as a helpline lol


  • #585
    Gadgetman496
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,415 ✭✭✭Gadgetman496


    miju wrote:
    i really dont get what all the eircom bashing is all about?

    it's really quite simple smart didn't pay their bills they got disconnected , turns our smart has no money and is millions in debt so eircom and a few other telecom companies circle smart to pick off their customers

    sounds like perfectly normal business practice to me?? thats 40,000 potential customers for eircom or for another telecom company whu wouldn't they try to take advantage?

    Do you think it's "perfectly normal" to cripple the communication system for over 40.000 innocent subscribers without any notice?

    The Dept of Defence don't even have that kind of power, if they had & they done what eircom did, the government would have been brought down for sure.

    What planet are you from anyway? It doesn't mention in your public profile..

    "Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid."



  • #586
    mike65
    Closed Accounts Posts: 88,972 ✭✭✭✭mike65


    http://www.rte.ie/business/2006/1006/smart.html
    The board of troubled telecoms group Smart is to sell off all of its businesses and assets for €1 to a private company controlled by its largest shareholders Brendan Murtagh.

    A statement said the deal would allow Smart to provide a full service to its 160 corporate and 17,000 residential broadband customers 'effective immediately'.

    Eircom began cutting off these customers earlier this week, having disconnected 40,000 of Smart's fixed-line customers, saying it was owed €4m by the company.

    Mr Murtagh's company, BidCo, will also take on all of Smart's debts, estimated to amount to nearly €40m. Smart will be given a 10% stake in BidCo as part of the deal.

    The deal is subject to approval of shareholders at an EGM. BidCo has received undertaking from shareholders representing 42% of Smart to back the agreement. BidCo will also provide funds to keep Smart going until the shareholder meeting.

    Smart's acting chief executive Ciaran Casey said this was 'a very disappointing outcome' for shareholders, but was the only option.

    Mike.


  • #587
    dub45
    Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 12,450 Mod ✭✭✭✭dub45


    gadgetman496 wrote:
    Do you think it's "perfectly normal" to cripple the communication system for over 40.000 innocent subscribers without any notice?

    The Dept of Defence don't even have that kind of power, if they had & they done what eircom did, the government would have been brought down for sure.

    What planet are you from anyway? It doesn't mention in your public profile..

    Agee totally and dont forget not only Smart customers were affected but Eircom's own customers were affected in that they could not contact Smart customers so it went way beyond the 40.000.

    In the interests on the whole country there should be a form of 'bonding' (such as in the travel business) put in place by the Govt/Comreg so as to ensure that the communications infrastructure cannot be interrupted as it was this week. It is outrageous (irrespective of the merits of Eircom case against Smart) that the communications system of the country can be used like this.


  • #588
    Dellas
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 796 ✭✭✭Dellas


    dub45 wrote:
    In the interests on the whole country there should be a form of 'bonding' (such as in the travel business) put in place

    Well the travel business is a different story !!! I only found out a few months ago that if you book through a Travel Agent you are fully covered if they or the airline they have booked goes bust. If you book direct from your laptop at home say an Aer Lingus flight or package holiday with Budget Travel then they go bust you are likely not to get a cent back !!!! Very worrying. Theres always a catch to these things.


  • #589
    miju
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 8,486 ✭✭✭miju


    gadgetman496 wrote:
    Do you think it's "perfectly normal" to cripple the communication system for over 40.000 innocent subscribers without any notice?

    The Dept of Defence don't even have that kind of power, if they had & they done what eircom did, the government would have been brought down for sure.

    What planet are you from anyway? It doesn't mention in your public profile..

    ever hear the phrase "give someone just enough rope to hang themselves"?

    is it eircoms fault that smart didn't pay their bills????
    is it eircoms fault that smart telecom was mismanaged????
    are eircom to let smart telecom use their infrastructure for free and charge their customers without eircom recieving a cent in return????

    and you ask what planet i'm from???? cop the **** on will you it's a free market smart mismanaged their company and this is the result , eircom did things by the book at all stages and are now trying to capitalise on the situation, well eircom and the other three telecom companies who had nice large ads in the indo yesterday offering to "help" smart customers


  • #590
    dub45
    Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 12,450 Mod ✭✭✭✭dub45


    miju wrote:
    ever hear the phrase "give someone just enough rope to hang themselves"?

    is it eircoms fault that smart didn't pay their bills????
    is it eircoms fault that smart telecom was mismanaged????
    are eircom to let smart telecom use their infrastructure for free and charge their customers without eircom recieving a cent in return????

    and you ask what planet i'm from???? cop the **** on will you it's a free market smart mismanaged their company and this is the result , eircom did things by the book at all stages and are now trying to capitalise on the situation, well eircom and the other three telecom companies who had nice large ads in the indo yesterday offering to "help" smart customers

    Indeed! :rolleyes: Try thinking a little bit about Eircom's actions in this case - even a teency little bit please?


  • #591
    dub45
    Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 12,450 Mod ✭✭✭✭dub45


    Dellas wrote:
    Well the travel business is a different story !!! I only found out a few months ago that if you book through a Travel Agent you are fully covered if they or the airline they have booked goes bust. If you book direct from your laptop at home say an Aer Lingus flight or package holiday with Budget Travel then they go bust you are likely not to get a cent back !!!! Very worrying. Theres always a catch to these things.

    I am not of course saying that the travel business and the telecom business are the same - I am just using the example of bonding. My point it that the telecoms system should not be so easily disruptable as it was this week - in fact it should not have been disruptable at all.:mad:


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  • #592
    oscarBravo
    Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 28,825 Mod ✭✭✭✭oscarBravo


    miju wrote:
    eircom did things by the book at all stages...
    The point you're missing is that Eircom wrote the book in the first place.


  • #593
    JNive
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 994 ✭✭✭JNive


    the point being that they issued the suden disconnect BECAUSE it would result in loads of customers without service all of a sudden and in a panic to be rescued by good ole oirish eircom. Thats abuse of their control on the infrastructure. Such large-scale actions as this can ONLY be taken after agreement by comreg / government, as the issue at this stage is much bigger than one company owing another company money, since its the people and a national infrastructure being toyed with

    if NTR had a dispute with say the people looking adfter the nice tool booths on the M50 would they all of a sudden, without consulting / informing government, shut down the entire M50 cause they didnt want the people of Ireland not paying to use it.


  • #594
    miju
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 8,486 ✭✭✭miju


    JNive wrote:
    the point being that they issued the suden disconnect BECAUSE it would result in loads of customers without service all of a sudden and in a panic to be rescued by good ole oirish eircom. Thats abuse of their control on the infrastructure. Such large-scale actions as this can ONLY be taken after agreement by comreg / government, as the issue at this stage is much bigger than one company owing another company money, since its the people and a national infrastructure being toyed with

    heellllooooo , how many times must people be told that comreg where notified on the intended disconnection multiple times , it's not up to eircom to notify the 40,000 people that would be smarts responsibility seeing as how it's they're customers

    i really do fail to see why people are getting worked up, smart didn't pay their bills and got disconnected as a result

    would any of you expect eircom to keep letting you make phone calls if you didnt pay your bill????? course you wouldn't


  • #595
    JNive
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 994 ✭✭✭JNive


    of course not, cause we dont operate a telecoms network, thats the point. each customer does not have thousands of tax paying people using our services.

    as for notifying comreg, it was confirmed before that they were notified shortly before it was done, before they had a chance to do anything. and thats it, they notified them that they were doing it, rather than saying beforehand we will do this next week, cause they cant pay the bill, what can you do about it.

    they said, we are disconnecting them now by the way. basically.
    nobody ever said eircom should notify smarts customers. but they didnt even notify comreg in enough time for them to do anything or bring them to the table.

    Disconnecting an entire Operator, should never be done under any circumstances, and if it was neccesary the governemnt should pay off the debt and subsequently sort out alternative measures with such a troubled telco


  • #596
    dub45
    Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 12,450 Mod ✭✭✭✭dub45


    miju wrote:
    heellllooooo , how many times must people be told that comreg where notified on the intended disconnection multiple times , it's not up to eircom to notify the 40,000 people that would be smarts responsibility seeing as how it's they're customers

    i really do fail to see why people are getting worked up, smart didn't pay their bills and got disconnected as a result

    would any of you expect eircom to keep letting you make phone calls if you didnt pay your bill????? course you wouldn't

    You seem either unwilling or incapable of taking on board that Eircom played havoc with the telecommunications structure of the country. This included stopping their own customers and the customers of other companies communicating with Smart's customers. No matter how badly managed Smart may have been it does not justify this action which affected the entire nation and could have lead to deaths (inablility to make 999 calls etc)

    The Government and Comreg deserve a lot of the blame for not seeing that this sort of thing could happen and have an appropriate plan in place to ensure the continuity of communications.


  • #597
    spurious
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Education Moderators Posts: 27,297 CMod ✭✭✭✭spurious


    Smart will be relaunching soon as a BB only company (no CPS).

    I have re-signed up to them (had to because Eircom illegally interfered with my subscription). Eircom are currently re-connecting (as ordered to) the customers they illegally disconnected (non-phone).

    I will have 10 meg speed til the end of the yr, still for less than half the price of Eircom.

    The real muppets here are the Eircom apologists - enjoy your increased line rental girls and boys.


  • #598
    Jonnie_Onion
    Registered Users Posts: 245 ✭✭Jonnie_Onion


    miju wrote:
    it's a free market


    You're having a laugh aren't you?


  • #599
    lardboy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 184 ✭✭lardboy


    miju wrote:
    ...it's a free market...

    Not according to any definition of free market that I've ever seen. When competition is restricted every step of the way by the dominant player in the market, by obstructive law cases and deliberate inaction and now by bordeline illegal actions, then it's not even close to free. Comreg's complicity in enabling eircom to screw over even more customers is disgraceful.


  • #600
    steve-o
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 911 ✭✭✭steve-o


    miju wrote:
    heellllooooo
    Sorry, can't hear you because I've been disconnected by Eircom :rolleyes:
    Eircom have a monopoly on phone lines. They disconnected consumers because of a financial dispute they had with a telecoms provider. If there was a real regulator, Eircom would not be allowed to do what they did without permission from the regulator, and consumers would have some protection.


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  • #601
    Foxwood
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,491 ✭✭✭Foxwood


    miju wrote:
    is it eircoms fault that smart didn't pay their bills????
    Is it Joe Bloggs (a customer of Smart) fault that Smart didn't pay their
    bill (according to eircom - Smart say that they did pay their bills).

    Why should Joe Bloggs and 40,000 other taxpayers be cut off without notice
    because of a dispute between eircom and Smart? (Actually, we know why -
    eircom was trying to scuttle it's only significant competitor. It was quite
    happy to wave goodbye to 4 million to do that).
    are eircom to let smart telecom use their infrastructure for free and charge
    their customers without eircom recieving a cent in
    return????
    Actually, yes. If eircom can't figure out how to resolve
    it's problems with Smart without cutting off 40,000 innocent bystanders,
    then the charge of mismanagement should be laid at eircoms door, as they
    drew up a contract with Smart that didn't include provisions for this sort
    of thing.

    In any other Western country, eircom would be facing massive fines for
    accidentally causing disruption on this level. To do it deliberately would
    be considered national sabotage.

    But not in Ireland, where "accountability" doesn't exist for politicians,
    Commissioners or well connected commercial interests.


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