Pot Odds - After The Flop

dvdfan · 01-10-2006 09:15PM #1

Hello,

I was wondering if anyone has a table of what odds a certain hand is:

For example. Im dealt a flush draw on the flop

What are my odds of making the flush before the turn and the river. It would be handy to have a table that i can learn off because when playing online i dont have time to count all the outs, compare them to the pot odds and make a decision along with trying to see if theres other hands that could beat me and all the other info you have to process in them few seconds.

Now i know its easy to remember the above but there are alot of scenarios of hands you get dealt such as:

Flush draw
Open straight draw
Gutshot Straight draw
Open straight draw and flush
low pair, trying to make a set
flush draw & two high cards
two high cards
Ace rag

and a few more harder to work out with outs:
3 flush cards
3 straight hands

So im sure you know my meaning, im good with maths on paper but not great in my head with the clock ticking down so id much rather learn the common ones above off

Cheers

Scotty # · 01-10-2006 09:27PM

http://www.homepokergames.com/odds.php

dvdfan · 01-10-2006 11:31PM

OK,

ive done a bit of research and put together my own table. Would appreciate if someone could have a look at the word doc attached and tell me if my figures are accurate as i dont want to fcuk this up.

Also i have a few questions,

a) how do i calculate odds when i flop 3 of a flush and i need 2 more of the same suit by the river. Even if someone dosent know how to calculate this if they know what the odds are of both these scenarios it would be helpful.

1) I flop 3 hearts and need 2 more hearts by the river to improve my hand
2) I flop A,Q,J and i need to catch K,T by the river

b)Also if you notice on my document when you get to 15 outs+ the odds get very marginal eg 15-20 outs the odds are only 1.5/1 - 1.75/1
is this nit picking and should i just move them into group categories like 9-12 outs 12-15 outs 15-20 outs and give each category an average price considering ill only have 30 seconds to compute everything due to online timelimits.

c) Lastly just to double check and not spend a couple of weeks using this info only to find im doing it wrong, please confirm if this is correct:

I calculate the odds using my table of say a flush draw for example which is 9/2 by the turn card.

Someone raised 500 and the pot is currently 2400, thats giving me odds 2400/500= approx 5/1 (im not going to be calculating exacts in my head)

So my pot odds are 5/1 which are better than my chances of improving to a winning hand which is 9/2 so its a value bet.

d) Assuming the same position as above only this time i want to see it out until the river with better odds of 15/8 instead of 9/2, i dont know what my opponent might raise on the next turn so how can i properly calculate the odds. do i just calculate say 2400/500 = 5/1 pot odds and 15/8 for me to make the flush from the flush draw after the flop. How does this work???

e) Lastly (Again) how close pot odds should you be calling 9/2 -5/1 is that ok 0.5 difference, is 6/4 - 7/4 thats 0.1 difference to small and does pot size and wheter the call puts you all in or other factors make a difference??

If i didnt explain these questions properly let me know and ill try to explain a little clearer!!

gerry87 · 02-10-2006 12:44AM

Before you go to too much work there are already charts http://www.texasholdem-poker.com/odds_chart.php

But it's good to work it all out yourself so you remember it and understand it better. I'll try and answer some of the questions.

dvdfan wrote:

OK,

Also i have a few questions,

a) how do i calculate odds when i flop 3 of a flush and i need 2 more of the same suit by the river. Even if someone dosent know how to calculate this if they know what the odds are of both these scenarios it would be helpful.

1) I flop 3 hearts and need 2 more hearts by the river to improve my hand

Odds of a heart on the turn (10/47)
With the heart on the turn, odds of one on the river (9/46)

(10/47)*(9/46) = 4.2% so about 1 in 24, or 23/1

dvdfan wrote:

2) I flop A,Q,J and i need to catch K,T by the river

4 K's and 4 T's
odds of a K or a T on the turn (8/47)
odds of the other one on the river (4/46)

(8/47)*(4/46) = 1.5%, or 66/1

dvdfan wrote:

b)Also if you notice on my document when you get to 15 outs+ the odds get very marginal eg 15-20 outs the odds are only 1.5/1 - 1.75/1
is this nit picking and should i just move them into group categories like 9-12 outs 12-15 outs 15-20 outs and give each category an average price considering ill only have 30 seconds to compute everything due to online timelimits.

You could list them all seperately but make a note on the side grouping them together as similar.

dvdfan wrote:

c) Lastly just to double check and not spend a couple of weeks using this info only to find im doing it wrong, please confirm if this is correct:

I calculate the odds using my table of say a flush draw for example which is 9/2 by the turn card.

Someone raised 500 and the pot is currently 2400, thats giving me odds 2400/500= approx 5/1 (im not going to be calculating exacts in my head)

So my pot odds are 5/1 which are better than my chances of improving to a winning hand which is 9/2 so its a value bet.

It's easier if you convert all the odds to x/1 so 9/2 is 4.5/1, it's just easier to see 5>4.5 so it's a call.

dvdfan wrote:

d) Assuming the same position as above only this time i want to see it out until the river with better odds of 15/8 instead of 9/2, i dont know what my opponent might raise on the next turn so how can i properly calculate the odds. do i just calculate say 2400/500 = 5/1 pot odds and 15/8 for me to make the flush from the flush draw after the flop. How does this work???

You calculate each seperately. On the flop, you calculate odds of making it by on the turn, and then on the turn you calculate the odds of making on the river, since as you say you don't know how much he'll bet, and the pot will be bigger when

dvdfan wrote:

e) Lastly (Again) how close pot odds should you be calling 9/2 -5/1 is that ok 0.5 difference, is 6/4 - 7/4 thats 0.1 difference to small and does pot size and wheter the call puts you all in or other factors make a difference??

If i didnt explain these questions properly let me know and ill try to explain a little clearer!!

As long as the pot odds are greater than the odds of making the hand you have a positive expected value. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Expected_value

If the call puts you all in on the flop, then you calculate the odds from the flop to the river instead of each seperately.

If any of my calculations are wrong, pls let me know.

ArmaniJeanss · 02-10-2006 01:51AM

dvdfan wrote:

Lastly (Again) how close pot odds should you be calling 9/2 -5/1 is that ok 0.5 difference, is 6/4 - 7/4 thats 0.1 difference to small and does pot size and wheter the call puts you all in or other factors make a difference??

If i didnt explain these questions properly let me know and ill try to explain a little clearer!!

DVD, I havnt read your whole post, cause I'm pished as a newt. However a couple of points you seem to have missed.

Implied odds - you call a bet on the flop or turn, and on that bet you don't quite have the correct odds to call, however you're knowledge of the players leads you to believe that if you make your hand, you can make an amount of chips/money that will compensate for your incorrect call.

Value of chips(tourneys mainly) - you fold a bet on the flop or turn because even though you marginally have the correct odds to call you believe that
hanging on to your chips will give you a better return longterm.

mewso · 02-10-2006 09:02AM

I suspect the whole point is to make the calculation of the basic pot odds v outs easier so that the other factors can be considered more easily. I got a nice background for my desktop with all the odds. Can't remember where though. It was linked in a thread here a while back.

Mellor · 02-10-2006 10:59AM

Seen that too and never saved it. I believe it was in athread called poker desktop/screensaver

mewso · 02-10-2006 11:47AM

Found it. I use this one -

http://www.tightpoker.com/images/poker_bg/teamfu_poker_1280_1024_bg1.jpg

and the complete list is at the bottom of this page:-

http://www.tightpoker.com/software/

nicnicnic · 03-10-2006 03:52AM

A simple way to calculate odds is 2% per out per card to come +1%

for example a open ended straight draw with turn and river to come is 8 outs * 2% * 2 cards +1 = 33 %

with just the river to come its 8*2% * 1 card +1= 17%

this is not an precise method but is always within 1% either way of the exact odds

connie147 · 03-10-2006 02:42PM

nicnicnic wrote:

A simple way to calculate odds is 2% per out per card to come +1%

for example a open ended straight draw with turn and river to come is 8 outs * 2% * 2 cards +1 = 33 %

with just the river to come its 8*2% * 1 card +1= 17%

this is not an precise method but is always within 1% either way of the exact odds

Being from Kerry we had to figure out a pretty simple way thats almost identical to nicnic's. After the flop we muntiply our number of outs by 4 and add 1 ie: we're holding 10c-Jc, flop brings two clubs, we have 9 outs to fill the flush which is 9x4=36% +1%=37% to hit. Now if the flop had brought 3c-9c-Kh, we would now be counting the 3 Q's(ignore the Qc) for three extra outs so post flop its 12x4=48% +1%=49%.

Wombatman · 03-10-2006 04:12PM

Priceless formula lads. Thanks.
Is the extra 1% for runner runner stuff like trips or two pair or is this counted (worth counting)?

connie147 · 03-10-2006 04:24PM

Wombatman wrote:

Priceless formula lads. Thanks.
Is the extra 1% for runner runner stuff like trips or two pair or is this counted (worth counting)?

No, its just the formula used. Dont ever consider allowing for runner-runner, its only your opponnents get that

dvdfan · 03-10-2006 05:39PM

Thanks for all the replies. Just wondering if you know of any similar formula that converts them into odds i.e 4/1 etc instead of percentages. Would be alot more helpful considering your pot odds are calculated as odds of 4/1 etc

or

Do you know a formula for converting the pot odds to percentage instead of odds.

ArmaniJeanss · 03-10-2006 05:53PM

To convert a % to odds, divide 100 by it (and then Subtract 1).
e.g. 40% = ((100/40)-1) = 1.5/1 (or 6/4 in bookies parlance).

Start off by knowing the basic ones.
1/1 = 50%
2/1 = 33%
3/1 = 25%
4/1 = 20%.
5/1 = 16.666%

If you know these ones off by heart, then you approximate all the calculations within them.

Pot Odds - After The Flop

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