Newbie to Nitro - TS4N and having some problem

merclad · 26-09-2006 08:25PM #1

Hi everyone. Asking for some tips/ advice

Just bought a Thunder Tiger TS4N Pro. Thought it would be a decent introduction to nitro RC.

I double checked all the connections and fired her up. Ran it at mostly at half throttle for approx 2 tanks. My pal was running an ER-1 alongside at the time and all was going well. No problems at all.

After another refill, I was running around the car park when all of a sudden I noticed the steering react much slower. Then the throttle opened and off she went, smacking into two cars damaging the left side suspension!

I've had this repaired and now fitted a failsafe. However, when I accelerate, the car seems to dash off before the failsafe kicks in and stops it. I've tested the radio with the engine off from a good distance, and all is well. However, when the engine goes, the wheels can twitch when I put the igniter in, and the throttle has a mind of its own. The receiver is tagged down onto the chassis. Could this cause interference?

The TS4N wires all seem to be bundled near the battery pack and between the servos. Could this also be a problem?

On a separate note, I've noticed that a fair bit of fuel is ejected from the exhaust pipe. Because it has a mind of its own, I'm leaving it to idle most of the time.

Any help would be much appreciated!

Thanks - Merclad

zt-OctaviaN · 27-09-2006 03:34PM

Hi there,

Sorry to hee about that nasty introduction.
Anyway Im only in the hobby 3 or 4 months so Ill ask a few questions. You say the throttle has a mind of its own?

Does this mean when you start it, it screams off into the distance? or tires.
Possibly the throttle on your radio is reversed?

The fail safe have you tested it?
To test have the car running at idle and your radio on your car should be idling away, now switch off the radio the throttle servo should kick on the brakes. BTW seeing as you say the throttle has a mind of its own dont have the car pointing up the street when you switch off the radio!! hold it or put it against something just in case.

A little off point but you mentioned about running at half throttle for 2 tanks and running another tank. heres some advice:

After a run of maybe 4 mins or so knock off the engine and let it cool at BDC this is where the piston is at its lower most position to do this when the engine is now off rotate your flywheel until you feel a pinch count roughly how many rotations with yer finger it takes then half this and the piston should be at the bottom.

On a new engine it wouldnt be the best to keep just pouring tanks of fuel in without it cooling try just to do 4 min runs and every 2 or 3 of these 4min run lean it the 1/8th turn or whatever your manual states to lean it.

Just an extra tip. but read up on heat cycling for run in method I used that method and it was great.

Have fun anyway itll be more relaxing once you get to grips with how exactly they run and how to tune and maintain the cars.

Anyone else got more tips for this fella

Good luck
Nick

tallus · 27-09-2006 04:41PM

I wouldn't rule out radio interferance either OP. Is the radio gear 27mhz or 40mhz? Taxi's can interfere with 27mhz as far as I know. I had similar trouble with one of my cars a while back and it turned out to be a loose wire.

coolwings · 27-09-2006 06:44PM

If the steering reacted slower just before the runaway ... that is a sign that the receiver batteries inside your car were getting depleted.
When electrical power to the servos fails, the throttle will be sucked to the full end by the engine. This causes the runaway.
Your receiver batteries ran down because

the car was left switched on while not in use

the servo movements are mismatched to the available "throw", ie your servo is pushing too far, further than the brake or throttle is able to movew, thus consuming battery power

your brakes use more power than you think and the car batteries are empty faster than the radios empty. Cure: change the car batteries twice as often as the radio handset batteries

You have a dirty radio antenna, reducing range - fuel oil residue can reduce range by 30% easily. Wipe it with a cloth impregnated with alcohol,white spirit, unleaded, methylates spirit

you had interference in the vicinity. Did you range check before starting? Possible a combination of a couple together conspired to cause it to runaway.

merclad · 27-09-2006 10:06PM

Thanks to Cool, Tallus and Nick. To answer your questions!!......

Frequency is 27 mhz (am). RE: Batteries, I put 4 Duracell M3s in and checked the power meters. All had over 2/3 left.

Failsafe works and kicks in when it should (as per Octavians test)

When I start it up, it idles fine. Doesn't scream or want to runaway. With the engine idling and off, I've walked a few few hundred metres away and checked the steering and throttle working as they should.

The problems start when I actually move. If I take it slow, all is fine (but this defeats the object) Give it some more welly and instead of moving off slowly, it'll burst off (sometimes turning) before the failsafe kicks in and saves it from hitting parked cars. It does occasionally (rarely) do whats its told.

I know half the fun is doing your own tuning and repairs but being a newbie, it'd be nice to know the problem. A loose wire, fuel affecting antenna is a possibility. With the car idling/ off, throttle and steering are fine. Would it be an idea to put foam pads under the receiver as I read that excess vibration can also cause problems. Its currently tagged tightly onto the chassis.

My pal was running 27mhz in the same area and he had no problems at all so I figure its something with the car. The taxi's here are all on FM too.

Thanks for your help guys.

Note: To ask another noob question; Is after run oil recommended. The model shop told me not to bother with it!

zt-OctaviaN · 28-09-2006 09:50AM

Hey there this is a sticky problem.

I use after run oil its a couple of quid but if you leave the engine for a week or a couple of days rust and gunk can form on parts.
(e.g. look at a cars brake disk after its been wet and left over night tonnes of rust spots.)

hmm I know you said the car turns, but is there anything gripping the throttle unit when it gets so far? maybe air filter or fuel line? maybe even the body?

Check worth a try?
As for enything else Im stumped
Nick

BFassassin · 28-09-2006 11:59AM

it couls be interference from your mates transmitter. you said he was using 27mhz as well so that could be your problem. try running it when he is not around

merclad · 28-09-2006 06:44PM

BFassassin wrote:

it couls be interference from your mates transmitter. you said he was using 27mhz as well so that could be your problem. try running it when he is not around

They were both working fine together for about 35 mins before it attempted its escape out of the car park! He was on 26 something or other mhz and I was on 27mhz.

Good idea to get the after run oil then. Will get some tomorrow as I'm taking the car into the model shop for them to have a look at the problem. I can't see or feel anything gripping the throttle body. Will let you know if the fault can be traced!

Thanks again for the info.

Merclad

SLIM19198 · 28-09-2006 10:32PM

Sounds like really cheap batteries to me!!!

pgdavy · 28-09-2006 11:12PM

SLIM19198 wrote:

Sounds like really cheap batteries to me!!!

Cheap Duracell M3's?!?

I don't think so!!

merclad · 30-09-2006 12:33PM

Nothing wrong with M3's. Still plenty of life left in them too.

Anyhow, I've fixed the problem with my car. Before I went to the shop, I had one last go at it. Took the wiring out and gave it a thorough overhaul. Gave connections a mild clean with alcohol, routed wires to avoid contact with each other and servos. Still no good.

Turned the receiver around and...............hey presto. All is well. Still a newbie to this but learning very fast! Good fun though. One more tank and she's run in.

Anyone know how to adjust the steering on these? Car drifts to the left on a straight run. Is it just adjusting a screw(s), or do I need to take bits off and adjust there?

Also, the TS4N Evo. Has anyone had one of these/ know anyone with one? I've been told they go like a missile. Any comments?

Thanks again for the advice gang. Very useful forum.

Merclad

PG. You tuned your ER-1 up in Kerry yet? I'll give you a headstart when I come over

mugenextreme · 30-09-2006 06:42PM

I am sorry to hear of your problems with the car, a quick and easy solution to using a fail safe is a rubber band ,just place it over the carb and around where the trottle linkage connects, i wraped my one so it will just about pull the servo shut but still does not interefer with the controlling on the car. This is possible on a slide card not sure about any othe type.

vectra · 30-09-2006 06:47PM

merclad wrote:

Anyone know how to adjust the steering on these? Car drifts to the left on a straight run. Is it just adjusting a screw(s), or do I need to take bits off and adjust there?
Merclad

You should have servo trims on your handset to adjust the pull to the left. if it is by a major amount you should be able to adjust the linkage from your steering servo to your servo saver. ( lenghten or shorten to suit)

Glad you got the other problem sorted. I have been told and have found that if you put your receiver on edge rather than flat with the Crystal to the uppermost part it helps with interferance.

coolwings · 30-09-2006 09:51PM

Amazing,the difference turning the receiver can make.
Another "trick" is to wrap it in tinfoil - hasn't helped me, but I have seen it clean up intereference for a friend.

merclad · 01-10-2006 12:31PM

Cheers for the tips Mugen, Vectra and Cool. The interference was really beginning to bug me. I didn't really think about rotating the receiver as it all seemed to work fine at first, but it seems to be ok now. Like you say vectra, the crystal is now positioned higher and its made a big difference.

If anyone else has similar problems, its a simple thing to try to see if it makes any difference.

The servo trim is already to the right on the handset, and pulls slightly to the left so will look at the linkage.

Merclad

vectra · 01-10-2006 12:41PM

merclad wrote:

The servo trim is already to the right on the handset, and pulls slightly to the left so will look at the linkage.
Merclad

OK.
Just make sure you set the steering trim to the center before you make any adjustments.
Then a slight movement should put you spot on.

pgdavy · 01-10-2006 01:19PM

merclad wrote:

PG. You tuned your ER-1 up in Kerry yet? I'll give you a headstart when I come over

Yeah right mate!!! I'll even give you a rolling start and still kick your butt!!!!!

merclad · 07-10-2006 09:27PM

Just when I thought my interference issues had been solved, the car gave me nothing but grief again last week. After trying all the re-routing, cleaning wires, repositioning the receiver etc - I gave up and took it back to the shop.

Turns out the receiver was dud! Got a new one, and put some foam underlay underneath for good measure. Have run about 6 tanks through it this afternoon and all was well. Phew!

dts · 18-10-2006 11:36AM

I have a tsn4, they are great cars and take alot of stick. The steering adjustment is done by loosening the top of the servo where the linkage sits then rotate it untill the wheels look straight and tighten it back up. Then you can adjust the fine trim with the trim switch on the controller.

merclad · 24-10-2006 07:42PM

Cheers DTS. Steering is all sorted now.

What fuel are you using in your TS4N? I'm using 10% nitro but was thinking of moving up to 16% (only because I have 1/2 gallon sitting in my garage)

Merclad

dts · 25-10-2006 05:59PM

I have only ever used 10% but thinking of going up to 16% for my new Revo 3.3:D

vectra · 25-10-2006 09:35PM

dts wrote:

I have only ever used 10% but thinking of going up to 16% for my new Revo 3.3:D

Deffo go with at least 16%.. otherwise your not going to get the best out of it..

coolwings · 26-10-2006 01:49PM

Run it in first. Then increase the nitro if you want to.
Don't run it in on the 16% if you want it for the long haul! :-)

dts · 27-10-2006 09:40AM

Hi Coolwings,
the Traxxas book and vidio says that you should run it in on what ever you intend to use and that using a lower % to run a engine in is a mith. They recoment Traxxas 25% but we cannot get that over here.

vectra · 27-10-2006 10:10AM

dts wrote:

Hi Coolwings,
the Traxxas book and vidio says that you should run it in on what ever you intend to use and that using a lower % to run a engine in is a mith. They recoment Traxxas 25% but we cannot get that over here.

What fuel can you get in your locality?

coolwings · 27-10-2006 01:20PM

dts wrote:

...the Traxxas book and vidio says that you should run it in on what ever you intend to use and that using a lower % to run a engine in is a mith. They recoment Traxxas 25% but we cannot get that over here.

It is cynical advice.
High nitro helps a mail-order beginner get it started.
Prevents bad complaints about "it never ran".
The wear (caused by running in on high nitro) causes problems later after the warranty expires. They win - you lose.

Saying running-in is a myth is like saying these are easy to use.
Easy to claim if all Traxxas want is more sales ... beginners love the idea that one is easier than another . They want to believe that sort of advice.
The actual truth is 3 years later many still can't tune it for best performance.
Bet they don't say that on their website!

On the 25% bit - european nitro is put in by volume, US do it by weight.
European 20% has the same nitro in it than US made 25%.

Plug · 27-10-2006 04:08PM

coolwings wrote:

It is cynical advice.
High nitro helps a mail-order beginner get it started.
Prevents bad complaints about "it never ran".
The wear (caused by running in on high nitro) causes problems later after the warranty expires. They win - you lose.

Traxxas have a lifetime warrenty, they must be good then:)

Saying running-in is a myth is like saying these are easy to use.
Easy to claim if all Traxxas want is more sales ... beginners love the idea that one is easier than another . They want to believe that sort of advice.
The actual truth is 3 years later many still can't tune it for best performance.
Bet they don't say that on their website!

Ahh surely you won't have an engine for 3 years, not even a sunday driver
would have an engine that long!

On the 25% bit - european nitro is put in by volume, US do it by weight.
European 20% has the same nitro in it than US made 25%.

Intreasting, never knew that;)

coolwings · 27-10-2006 09:40PM

Plug wrote:

.....Ahh surely you won't have an engine for 3 years, not even a sunday driver would have an engine that long!.....

Model plane fliers expect a good engine to still be working 10 - 15 years later!
That would be an extremely unreasonable expectation for a car, buggy or truck engine, seeing as these are "high revvers".
Racers on-track seem to be good for 9 - 18 months. But they sacrifice long life for extra performance.
But for sport use - 3 - 5 years should be do-able....maybe with a new piston & liner set along the way.

dts · 28-10-2006 09:47AM

coolwings wrote:

Saying running-in is a myth is like saying these are easy to use.
Easy to claim if all Traxxas want is more sales ... beginners love the idea that one is easier than another . They want to believe that sort of advice.
The actual truth is 3 years later many still can't tune it for best performance.
Bet they don't say that on their website!

They dont say running in ia a myth, they say running in should be done on the fuel you intend to run the truck on.

dts · 28-10-2006 09:52AM

vectra wrote:

What fuel can you get in your locality?

You can get the 16 and 25% stuff from Halfords. I was also getting the 10% from Lucan but I think he has gone now? I still have a gallon of the 10% but will run the revo on the 16% from Halfords or there is now a UK ebay seller shipping fuel to Ireland. Shipping is costly but if you are out in the sticks like me in Westmeath then its a good lazy way to get fuel.

vectra · 28-10-2006 10:24AM

dts wrote:

You can get the 16 and 25% stuff from Halfords. I was also getting the 10% from Lucan but I think he has gone now? I still have a gallon of the 10% but will run the revo on the 16% from Halfords or there is now a UK ebay seller shipping fuel to Ireland. Shipping is costly but if you are out in the sticks like me in Westmeath then its a good lazy way to get fuel.

I used the Tornado 25% from halfords and seemed good..
I would suggest 16% though as i think the 25% may be a bit over the top for the slight increase in performance.

Can you give me a link to that ebay seller please?
Cheers

Newbie to Nitro - TS4N and having some problem

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