Where is respect for elders gone

ferdi · 19-09-2006 11:16AM

in the middle of my degree now and i think i may have a vocation for teaching (secondary) but i'm seriously doubting if i could handle modern teenagers. i'm an 'adventure sports' instructor at the moment and i love imparting knowledge and seeing kids improve and grow in confidence in the discipline but if i was trying to teach a load of 5th years about Home Rule i can see it being a nightmare cause of the total lack of respect kids have for teachers and all the stories you read about teachers being bullied and abused by students....its really putting me off teaching

Nevyn · 19-09-2006 11:26AM

Ph3n0m wrote:

Seriously does no one discipline their kids anymore - anything from verbally giving out to even a smack on the arse?

Most of them don't the kids are are let run roit out side of the house are there so not to be in thier parents way.
A lot of parents don't know how to disapline a child or don't have the intrest or the attension span to over see a punishment or carry it out to the end be it a grounding, a toy taken away extra chores or what ever.

Ph3n0m wrote:

There I said it - these little ****s running wild - most of them need that kick up the arse to bring them back to earth.

Tbh they need supervision and some one to care enough about them to teach them how to behave.
Kids should have chores and responsibilites and be made help out in the house and garden and work with thier parents to get things done.

jdivision · 19-09-2006 11:34AM

I was walking into my estate last night and there was a parent there watching his three kids throw rocks at the spouts in the fountain. They've been broken so much they are probably going to fill it in and plant on it. The parents are as bad - it's been broken because of people throwing beer bottles into it. Then I went around the corner and there was a kid walking his rottweiler without a muzzle through the playground. WTF? I said it to him and he just put back on his earphones and kept walking

Ph3n0m · 19-09-2006 11:36AM

Thaedydal wrote:

Tbh they need supervision and some one to care enough about them to teach them how to behave.

Agreed but normally by that stage, no amount of supervision is going to do any good as they are usually too far gone

Princess Consuela Bananahammock · 19-09-2006 11:41AM

ferdi wrote:

in the middle of my degree now and i think i may have a vocation for teaching (secondary) but i'm seriously doubting if i could handle modern teenagers. i'm an 'adventure sports' instructor at the moment and i love imparting knowledge and seeing kids improve and grow in confidence in the discipline but if i was trying to teach a load of 5th years about Home Rule i can see it being a nightmare cause of the total lack of respect kids have for teachers and all the stories you read about teachers being bullied and abused by students....its really putting me off teaching

The trick is to get them interested. Don't talk down to them, try to dsicipline, force them or they'll simply get up and walk out. The challenge you face is to make Home Rule interesting enough so that they WANT to stay.

I used to teach English and art to troubled kids in Denmark. Just to put this in perspective, we're talking about ex-drug addicts, abused kids and kids who'd been convicted of thieving and joyriding, in a boarding school on an island acorss seven miles of bridge from the nearest village.

Respect is a two way thing. If you don't respect the teenagers in your class, they won't respect you. And if you've got a background in adventure sports, you've got a decent enough hook already, if you can work an angle with it.

Most people in this country seem to think discipline and respect means beating the hell out of someone until they conform. But teenagers don't naturally conform, which menas you either hit your head off a brick wall harder, or try a new approach.

There are of course the kids who just don't want to respect anything and I'd agree wiht most of what is said above - this kids shouldn't be allowed see the light of day until they can at least live in society. And there are plenty of offshore islands in this country where we can put them.

Good luck with the teaching - there's no need to feel disillusioned. See it as a new challenge and know the minds of the kids you're working with and you'll do great.

Dragan · 19-09-2006 11:41AM

What I find hilarious is the "it's the little knackers" line. To be honest, it's everyone. If I can use an example, when I lived in some of the dodgiest estates in Limerick no one ever said boo to me. Not the kids, not the parents, not the drunken jobless scumbags. Everyone was nice, everyone would chat and say hello and I was well known and apparently well liked.

The reason for this is because I was a big guy, and to most people big equals respect on a certain primordial level deep down in the back of your head. I was well known to be a nice guy, but under no circumstances to think you could mess around with any degree of seriousness and think you could get away with.

Right now I live in a very posh area of Sandyford ( oh how lives change eh? ) and when I walk up to my local shop I will consistently get some kind of smart comment off the group of 16-18 year old who hang around outside it because all the boys are trying to be really hard to impress the girls. The funny thing is all these kids live close by, Daddy drives a Merc, Mammy drives a BMW Jeep to collect them from school and they are, to a degree in our "money first" New Eire, priviledge. And yet, they talk like scumbags and act like idiots.

I just find it hilarious that in one of the worst estates in the country I go no trouble, in one of the "best" I get given grief from kids because they don't realise that someday, someone will call them on it. The "under priviledged" kids I used to know had all learned the harsh lesson…."if you mess with someone, you need to be prepared for them to mess back."

The kids where I live now don't seem to get that. Personally I just find the whole thing hilarious. How would Mummy and Daddy feel if they knew that little Rick was hanging around outside extravision giving **** to random passerby's? They most likely wouldn't care, or might give him a bit of a slap on the wrist, but once he doesn't get in trouble with the law, or have the neighbours talking about him then what is the problem?

A broad statement, I know, and no doubt some parents will be very concerned about there kids behaviour. I guess my point is that it is not a money thing, or a location thing, or a society thing. It's all about the lessons you learn earlier and the barriers that your parents place on you and how willing they are to back them up.

I know it might sound cliché to blame the parents, but it's also pretty accurate. If you want to ****, and have a baby, then accept your responsibilty for that new person that you have created. Don't stay working 90 hours a week and chasing the Porsche.

gazzer · 19-09-2006 11:58AM

Last Saturday there were some kids (about 6 of them .. around ten years of age) writing graffitti on the bedroom window of one of the apartments that faces my house( nobody is in the apartment at the moment)... This was during the day and people were walking by and not saying anything to them.

I went out and asked them what they thought they were doing.. that that was somebodys house etc etc.. i got a torrent of abuse ranging from.. f**k off and mind your own business you queer... to f**k off ya rat...

Went back in and took photos of it (im going to send them into the council).. anway that night two of my car windows were smashed in.. could be just a coincidence but i dont know..

Kids nowadays have no fear whatsoever.. there have been times during the year when i see kids spitting on the ground, throwing glass bottles at each other. .. throwing stones at bus... all of these incidents where when these kids where with adults.

Im just afraid that one of these days one of those little sods will annoy me so much that i will give one of them a box.. and god only knows what sort of hassle that will cause.

Mrs_Doyle · 19-09-2006 12:18PM

I posted here a little while ago mentioning that I was looking at a new apartment development in Shangan Ballymun.

Decided to take a drive around the area, just to see what I would be letting myself in for if I decided to buy.

It was about 7.30pm, we were driving pretty slowing because we wanted to take in as much as possible.
We got the entrance of a new estate, just to the back of the apartments, and there was about 15 kids playing, from toddler age to around 10 or 11 years old.

Now, I know you will think I am making this up, but I swear on my life, a child, of no more then 3 years old, was sitting on a little trike, dummy in his mouth, and a broken brick in his hand, aiming it at our car as the older kids fell about the place laughing.

I was genuinely afraid that a 3 YEAR OLD could cause damage to one of us, or cause damage to the car.

We just reversed and pulled off, and that was the end of any idea that I might have entertained regarding purchasing in the area,

Nevyn · 19-09-2006 12:24PM

Ph3n0m wrote:

Agreed but normally by that stage, no amount of supervision is going to do any good as they are usually too far gone

I disagree up to 14 I reckon it can be rectified but it will take a lot time , work and effort.
Would not be needed if people showed thier kids respect and expected themt to respect others.

Ph3n0m · 19-09-2006 12:39PM

Thaedydal wrote:

I disagree up to 14 I reckon it can be rectified but it will take a lot time , work and effort.
Would not be needed if people showed thier kids respect and expected themt to respect others.

Unfortunately that would not happen. I mean if the parents dont give a damn about what their children are doing - the idea of them suddenly giving a toss, IMO, is very unlikely.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock · 19-09-2006 12:45PM

Ph3n0m wrote:

Unfortunately that would not happen. I mean if the parents dont give a damn about what their children are doing - the idea of them suddenly giving a toss, IMO, is very unlikely.

Wrong. Unless you're a child or social psychologst and have data to back it up.

It can be done. I've SEEN it done.

But, as Thaedydal points out, it requires a lot of time and word and effort. Trouble is, we're not prepared to put in the time, work and effort.

Ph3n0m · 19-09-2006 12:53PM

Ikky Poo2 wrote:

Wrong. Unless you're a child or social psychologst and have data to back it up.

It can be done. I've SEEN it done.

But, as Thaedydal points out, it requires a lot of time and word and effort. Trouble is, we're not prepared to put in the time, work and effort.

How exactly am I wrong? I never said it couldnt be done. I merely pointed out and asked why would a parent, who has basically given a child free reign to do whatever they want, without disciplining them, all of a sudden turn around and start to care about the child. I did say in my opinion, it would be highly unlikely.

Yes it can be done - but normally the nature of the beast cannot be changed (note I said normally) - and the change only can happen if both parties want to rectify the situation.

Next time read what I said before accusing me of being "wrong"

Nevyn · 19-09-2006 01:42PM

Mrs_Doyle wrote:

Now, I know you will think I am making this up, but I swear on my life, a child, of no more then 3 years old, was sitting on a little trike, dummy in his mouth, and a broken brick in his hand, aiming it at our car as the older kids fell about the place laughing.

I was genuinely afraid that a 3 YEAR OLD could cause damage to one of us, or cause damage to the car.

Do you let a 3 year old intimidate you ?
This is also part of what is wrong.

We have a posse of kids like that near where I live and I give out yards to them when needed.
Adults need to stand to to these types of children esp the under 10s and let them know that such behaviour is not allowed.

There is one child on my road who is in foster care and not yet 4 and the poor child must have learned to say **** right along side learning to say Mammy,
but he does not curse at me.
I won't stand for it and give out him when he does, I also make a point of saying hello politly to him when see him and when he says hello back and smiles I will re enforce that good behaviour by telling him he is a good boy.

If kids grown up being told they are little shits and never anything else how can they aspire to anything ?

Princess Consuela Bananahammock · 19-09-2006 02:18PM

Ph3n0m wrote:

How exactly am I wrong? I never said it couldnt be done. I merely pointed out and asked why would a parent, who has basically given a child free reign to do whatever they want, without disciplining them, all of a sudden turn around and start to care about the child. I did say in my opinion, it would be highly unlikely.

Yes it can be done - but normally the nature of the beast cannot be changed (note I said normally) - and the change only can happen if both parties want to rectify the situation.

Next time read what I said before accusing me of being "wrong"

The first part of what you said was wrong. Fair enough, it's unlikley to happen WITH PARENTS, but your post gave the impession than such changes were impossible, full stop.

il gatto · 19-09-2006 03:49PM

Ikky Poo2 wrote:

You're contradicting yourself.
Parents are society... parents are to blame... so society IS to blame..?

I am most certainly not contradicting myself. My point is that we shouldn't resort to blaming "society" as a whole, when there are identifiable members of it to blame. Society is made up of individuals, and we can't blame a faceless mass for things.

Where is respect for elders gone

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