Decentralisation

Schuhart · 23-07-2006 11:14PM

Higher executive officer Benny Molloy, originally from Birr, doubled the price of his end-of-terrace, two-bedroom house in Drimnagh in four years, and has just bought a four-bedroom detached house on a quarter of an acre outside Tullamore.

So, just in case we thought the National Spatial Strategy had any residual meaning, this example should confirm that the State is now committed to a policy of encouraging people out of high density housing and into one-off housing in the countryside. They'll even spend whatever it costs to send their job down after them.

Diaspora · 02-08-2006 08:27PM

Anecdotal evidence suggests that local micro markets in decentralisation host towns and villages priced this in by mid 2004 and that the CC's are getting fleeced.

On a positive note what would the forum think about the Department of the Marine moving to Haulbowline to be beside the National Marine College and Naval Base given its links to public transport and proximity to Cork Airport.

With caveats that a core office would be retained in D2 for the mandarins whilst at inter-departmental meetings or for specialists who choose to remain and travel as and when to Cork for internal meetings.

The posibility of setting up a cluster of excellence exists there in a way that it does not in Virginia.

utopian · 03-08-2006 12:07AM

Diaspora wrote:

On a positive note what would the forum think about the Department of the Marine moving to Haulbowline to be beside the National Marine College and Naval Base given its links to public transport and proximity to Cork Airport.

Department of the Marine? :rolleyes:

Perhaps the Department of Communications, Marine and Natural Resources should move to Navan so as to be near Tara Mines? Or to Crown Alley so as to be near the exchange?

Maybe we could play seagull noises, or set up a resalination plant, so that the staff can adapt to life away from the sea-breezes of Leeson Street?

One could almost feel sorry for the politicians. They get criticised for trying to drop Marine from the name of the Department, and then mocked for moving the "Department of the Marine" inland.

Dinarius · 03-08-2006 09:23AM

Diaspora wrote:

The posibility of setting up a cluster of excellence exists there in a way that it does not in Virginia.

One could almost feel sorry for the politicians. They get criticised for trying to drop Marine from the name of the Department, and then mocked for moving the "Department of the Marine" inland.

Ahem...........!

Not sure where you two have been, but Marine is not moving to Virginia and it is staying on the coast.

It's moving to Clonakilty.

D.

Diaspora · 03-08-2006 09:29AM

Read my post and the caveats contained within that limit the move to the relevant parts.

It would make a lot of sense to locate a department beside a dedicated educational institute which comprises a large proportion of the department or in case you had forgotten we are an Island and the potential for the marine industry is massive but only if there is innovation which is not currently happening.

To take one example all of the marine tech and marine equipment for the Corrib gas exploration was supplied from Scotland because the skills were simply not available here because of a lack of training.

Moving the department to a town with no expertise in any of the areas such as forrestry telecoms or marine is the current plan and no amount of smart quips about sea gulls will change the decsion unless a sound rationale is built.

Dinarius · 03-08-2006 09:37AM

Diaspora wrote:

Read my post and the caveats contained within that limit

I read your post and you do have a point.

Simply, for those coming to the thread for the first time, Virginia has zip to do with Marine now, and I didn't want to leave the impression that it does.

D. ;-)

utopian · 03-08-2006 09:51PM

Dinarius wrote:

Ahem...........!

Not sure where you two have been, but Marine is not moving to Virginia and it is staying on the coast.

It's moving to Clonakilty.

D.

You are so right. Another of my Scuds lands in the desert...

NewDubliner · 18-08-2006 09:27PM

Impact Press Release: Parlon is MIA.

IMPACT may withdraw co-operation with decentralisation after Minister reneges on commitments to OPW staff
Date: Friday 18 August, 2006

News Summary:
IMPACT trade union has called a special meeting of its Decentralisation Sub-Committee to discuss a possible withdrawal of co-operation from the Government’s decentralisation programme. It says this is because Minister Tom Parlon has reneged on commitments about job and career security given to Office of Public Works (OPW) staff at a meeting in May. The special meeting, involving IMPACT branches affected by decentralisation, takes place on Thursday 7th September.

News Content:

A withdrawal of co-operation would be a further serious blow to the discredited programme because IMPACT is the sole representative of specialist civil servants, on whom many civil service departments depend.

The union says that, during the 30th May meeting, Minister Parlon agreed that specialist staff in the OPW who chose not to relocate to Trim would continue to do their existing work or be given other suitable work within the OPW. He also said there would be no “parallel recruitment” – or duplicate recruitment of new staff to do the work of those who chose to stay in Dublin. But in a follow-up letter Mr Parlon made no reference to these commitments, instead saying that posts outside the OPW would be provided for staff that chose not to move. After persistent attempts to clarify the position over the summer, IMPACT says it is now clear that the Minister doesn’t intend to meet the commitment he gave.

IMPACT national secretary Louise O’Donnell said this was an important indication of how the Government intended to deal with specialist civil servants in the decentralisation programme. “This is the first test of the Government’s claim that decentralisation is voluntary and won’t disadvantage staff. Mr Parlon’s commitment was recognition that OPW specialists like architects and engineers can’t simply be moved to other departments where similar jobs don’t exist without fundamental harm to their careers. He has now reneged on that commitment.”

IMPACT has always said that decentralisation is especially difficult in organisations that depend heavily on specialist staff because, if they chose to stay in Dublin, they cannot simply interchange with other civil servants. Only about 15% of specialist staff have opted to relocate under the programme.

Ms O’Donnell says the Government’s unwillingness to address specialist staff concerns is fuelling frustration among IMPACT members. “Specialists see their colleagues in administrative grades making progress on lots of issues with the Department of Finance actively working to iron out problems. Yet real threats to their jobs and careers have yet to be dealt with and, when progress is made, it is quickly withdrawn. With some organisations due to move within months, this has put the union and its members in an impossible position. It’s becoming increasingly unrealistic to expect staff to co-operate with a programme that could leave them without careers or even useful work,” she said.

The union also says its concerns for non-Dublin staff, who are earmarked to relocate under the programme, have yet to be dealt with, and that there is huge uncertainty over the building programme linked to decentralisation.

IMPACT represents over 1,200 civil servants and state agency staff earmarked for relocation. All of them are specialist staff including engineers, architects, marine geologists, petroleum specialists, valuers, accountants, health and safety inspectors, cartographers, airworthiness professionals, legal specialists, policy experts, heritage experts, and a wide range of other professionals and technical grades.

In May, IMPACT published proposals, in a policy document called Why Decentralisation Isn’t Working, which it said could sort out the Government’s decentralisation debacle.

pete · 20-08-2006 12:39PM

NewDubliner wrote:

Parlon is MIA.

he's baaaack

Sunday Indo wrote:

THE "overdevelopment" of greater Dublin is not good for Ireland according to the 'Minister for Decentralisation' Tom Parlon. Despite problems with the time scale of the plan, he is pressing ahead with a huge land and building purchase programme.

Mr Parlon told the Sunday Independent that he is being approached "every day" by civil servants who are anxious to move out of Dublin. "For many of them it offers a life changing opportunity - I am committed to giving them that opportunity" he said.

Mr Parlon said that the there have been huge changes in Ireland in the last 20 years, but they have not benefited all of the people.

The expansion of the capital "denies people from the regions the opportunity to live and work in their own localities and detracts from the quality of life of people who live in Dublin" he said.

Although decentralisation plans are still bogged down in difficulties with civil service unions, the Office of Public Works (OPW) has confirmed that up to last week "negotiations have been completed or significantly advanced" to acquire property in 34 different locations around the country.

Five sites owned by the OPW have been acquired for new departments, six have been purchased from localauthorities, another six have been purchased from private landowners and a variety of others are under negotiation.

"Financial success hasnot benefited the country equally," Mr Parlon toldthe Sunday Independent last week.

"I have reiterated time and again that decentralisation, in addition to improving the quality of life for those public servants that choose to decentralise, will also encourage investment and improve infrastructure in the locationsthat are earmarked for decentralisation.

NewDubliner · 23-08-2006 09:46PM

From the 'Meath Chronicle':

Fianna Fail’s Colr Jimmy Fegan said this week that he did not think that the problems with Impact would hold up the decentralisation move to Trim.

“I think what we are looking at is the union seeking compensation for the relocation to Trim,” he said.

The Cllr is following the Parlon line that the unions are blocking their wonderful plan.

You'd wonder if Cllr Fegan could comprehend the notion that sometimes, 'no' simply means 'no'.

holly_johnson · 24-08-2006 10:05AM

NewDubliner wrote:

From the 'Meath Chronicle':

The Cllr is following the Parlon line that the unions are blocking their wonderful plan.

You'd wonder if Cllr Fegan could comprehend the notion that sometimes, 'no' simply means 'no'.

It's amazing how blinkered these people can be... like you said no means no.
How can he think otherwise?

The_Conductor · 24-08-2006 10:44AM

holly_johnson wrote:

It's amazing how blinkered these people can be... like you said no means no.
How can he think otherwise?

Simple- he is trotting out the party line.
The election is coming up- they made a number of promises to the electorate that they are unable to deliver on, and they need a scapegoat. Lets blame the unions.

holly_johnson · 24-08-2006 11:10AM

Yes, but are people really that naive? Would they be so mis-informed as to believe that line?
I hope not.

TempestSabre · 24-08-2006 11:14AM

Unions have a terrible public image for the majoiry of people. I would be easy to blame then. They are trying to pin the blame for the driving test back log on them too.

The_Conductor · 24-08-2006 11:26AM

holly_johnson wrote:

Yes, but are people really that naive? Would they be so mis-informed as to believe that line?
I hope not.

In short- yes. They are naive as hell, very open to misinformation and quite a few are more than willing to accept statements from their local TDs or Councillors as gospel truth. I'm highly cynical- and very distrusting of both politicians and the electorate at large. Why do you think parochial politics works so well in this country (to the utter and total detriment of the country as a whole.....)

holly_johnson · 24-08-2006 11:29AM

Shocking stuff.
I must say, coming from a politically aware family that I would never accept statements as 'gospel truth'. If anything I am inclined to be like you, and instantly look to see what the real story is behind the statement.
Politicians don't like knocking on my door due to the grilling they get. Needless to say since this farcical 'plan' was announced, the grilling temperature has risen a few degrees

NewDubliner · 24-08-2006 04:59PM

holly_johnson wrote:

Shocking stuff.
I must say, coming from a politically aware family that I would never accept statements as 'gospel truth'.

I think one good thing that has been produced by this scam is that it's woken up a lot of people to the way politicians mislead & lie to the public & how 'smoke and mirrors' arguments are used to bilk the taxpayer out of billions of euro under the pretense of doing something worthy.

pete · 07-09-2006 09:42PM

RTE News wrote:

The IMPACT trade union is to ballot its members for industrial action over decentralisation because it says the Government has failed to deliver on assurances that their jobs, working conditions and careers would be protected.

The ballot is expected to lead to a phased withdrawal of cooperation with the decentralisation programme.

http://www.rte.ie/news/2006/0907/decentralisation.html

Not really surprising.... I just can't believe it took this long.

Anyone seen the PSEU?

Hotblack Desiato · 07-09-2006 10:08PM

The PSEU will not strike on this issue no matter what.

In fact it's impossible to imagine them striking on any issue, no matter what. They are easily the most useless public sector union, but they're the only one I'm legally allowed join

TempestSabre · 07-09-2006 10:51PM

A few PSEU members in our office left it for that reason.

The_Conductor · 07-09-2006 10:53PM

ninja900 wrote:

The PSEU will not strike on this issue no matter what.

In fact it's impossible to imagine them striking on any issue, no matter what. They are easily the most useless public sector union, but they're the only one I'm legally allowed join

Not entirely true- you are perfectly within your rights to join any union that you like- however the PSEU is the only union recognised as representing your grade (same net effect

) Ditto for me.....

holly_johnson · 07-09-2006 11:26PM

Looks like there's a few of us in the really crap PSEU club...

NewDubliner · 08-09-2006 01:48AM

PSEU sold the IT grades down the river some years ago.

The irony is that, even though they no longer enjoy a separate promotional stream or pay rate, these same IT staff are now tagged by the as 'IT' and are not being allowed to leave the IT areas to escape the government's purge of all Dublin-based IT workers.

Hotblack Desiato · 08-09-2006 05:56PM

smccarrick wrote:

Not entirely true- you are perfectly within your rights to join any union that you like- however the PSEU is the only union recognised as representing your grade (same net effect ) Ditto for me.....

Well, yeah, there's no point joining a union which cannot represent you.

There again, there's not much point in joining a union which represents you poorly...

Aidan1 · 08-09-2006 08:47PM

I'm surprised that anyone joined the PSEU in the first place, to be honest.

I've never met a group of less effectual, more pathetic, unionistas in my short existence.

very miffed dub · 09-09-2006 02:13AM

I only joined the PSEU earlier this year because of the Income Continuance Plan which will hopefully provide me with a percentage of my income when I am out on unpaid sick leave due to stress caused by the Decentralisation debacle.

75% of Dublin staff (about 25 so far) in the section I work in have already been replaced and the stress it's causing is immeasureable. Every Friday someone else is forced to leave a job they loved and were highly skilled at.

C'est la vie !!!!

Hotblack Desiato · 09-09-2006 01:34PM

Hopefully McDowell will sack Parlon and insist that the whole decentralisation mess is scrapped.

How Harney went along with it I'll never figure out.

NewDubliner · 09-09-2006 02:38PM

ninja900 wrote:

Hopefully McDowell will sack Parlon and insist that the whole decentralisation mess is scrapped.

Parlon's just the front-man/fall guy. He's there to take the flak. Probably gambling that as long as it plays well to to the people of Offaly, he'll benefit regardless of the outcome.

There's a whole raft of vested interests backing the scheme. There's billions of euro to be bilked from the taxpayer in the wholly unnecessary funding land acquisition, building fit-outs and training. Even with FG at the helm, it will probably still get pushed.

ninja900 wrote:

How Harney went along with it I'll never figure out.

'Civil Service Reform'.

TempestSabre · 09-09-2006 03:43PM

Decentralisation as is currently being implemented makes no sense unless you look at the vested interests and where the votes are comming from.

Firetrap · 09-09-2006 07:28PM

NewDubliner wrote:

Parlon's just the front-man/fall guy. He's there to take the flak. Probably gambling that as long as it plays well to to the people of Offaly, he'll benefit regardless of the outcome.

There's a whole raft of vested interests backing the scheme. There's billions of euro to be bilked from the taxpayer in the wholly unnecessary funding land acquisition, building fit-outs and training. Even with FG at the helm, it will probably still get pushed.

'Civil Service Reform'.

Don't forget either that there are a lot of civil & public servants commuting from Offaly every day. I think it's safe to say that decentralisation can't come quick enough for them. Having said that, towns like Tullamore would thrive anyway even if government departments never went near the place.

Parlon deserves every bit of flack that comes his way from this debacle. Not every politician would have the neck to name their constituency after themselves (Parlon country). He's basically the Minister for Decentralisation.

You'r right though about it being unlikely that FG would roll back on decentralisation though. Politicians are into damage limitation. Telling the deluded souls in Ballygobackwards that they're not getting an influx of "well paid civil servants" only too ready to spend all their dosh in their town wouldn't be a popular thing to do

Decentralisation

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