What time should the library open at?

Tricity Bendix · 27-07-2006 07:05PM

Serving twenty people in two hours would be seen as quite productive in Aungier St.!

xeduCat · 27-07-2006 08:42PM

Oi, don't do yourself out of a job!

Time Magazine · 27-07-2006 11:34PM

When do the library hire shelvers? Is there much competition for the jobs? How many shifts a week is the average, and how long are the shifts? I'd love to work there.

I've even been working on my CV for the last two days

.

Nothingcompares · 27-07-2006 11:35PM

i hear xtra-vision is hiring.

Time Magazine · 28-07-2006 12:00AM

In case you're suggesting I was fired, I wasn't!

I'm just going to leave come October.

Nothingcompares · 28-07-2006 12:01AM

Good good.

xeduCat · 28-07-2006 12:23AM

Angry Banana wrote:

When do the library hire shelvers? Is there much competition for the jobs? How many shifts a week is the average, and how long are the shifts? I'd love to work there.

I've even been working on my CV for the last two days .

There's someone else posting on this thread who knows more about this, so hopefully they'll read this and respond (or you could take a guess and PM them).

When I shelved it was twelve hours a week (or so), and I worked 8-10 (ish) mornings in the Lecky. In the Hamilton, I think they have a bit more of a split between morning and evening. And again in "the BLU" it can vary from area to area - I think some people mix mornings and afternoons or come in for an hour in the morning and then go off to lectures and come back to finish off later.

Unsure on hiring schedule, but usually before Freshers' Week. Sometimes people are needed during the year too if people drop out.

John · 28-07-2006 12:42AM

Angry Banana wrote:

In case you're suggesting I was fired, I wasn't!

I'm just going to leave come October.

Liar, I know you were teabagging the Ben and Jerry's!

Time Magazine · 28-07-2006 01:02AM

xeduCat wrote:

There's someone else posting on this thread who knows more about this, so hopefully they'll read this and respond (or you could take a guess and PM them).

Unfortunately they don't have their PM facility turned on.

Thanks for your post

.

Crash · 28-07-2006 04:12AM

*me looks for a better job than cineworld...unshelved? :P*

thegloriousend · 02-08-2006 08:08AM

The TCD library is so ****. I had high expectations but found I was only able to take out mashed up scraps of paper with little yellow stickers on them. Terrible library.

In relation to closing times - they def should be extended, but only during exam times. Atm closing hours on the weekend are unbelievable..

Unshelved · 02-08-2006 03:29PM

The TCD library is so ****. I had high expectations but found I was only able to take out mashed up scraps of paper with little yellow stickers on them. Terrible library.

Perhaps if you spelled out what your expectations are to the relevant subject librarian, the library would be in a position to meet some of them. There's not much anyone can do with complaints such as the above when they don't even know what exactly your gripe is.

Regarding "closing hours on the weekend" - the 5th will be the last Saturday that the Library will be closed. Why don't you drop by on the following Saturday to see just how many hundreds of people will be bashing the door down to use the building during summer weekends:rolleyes:

Tricity Bendix · 02-08-2006 06:30PM

Unshelved wrote:

Perhaps if you spelled out what your expectations are to the relevant subject librarian, the library would be in a position to meet some of them. There's not much anyone can do with complaints such as the above when they don't even know what exactly your gripe is.

Regarding "closing hours on the weekend" - the 5th will be the last Saturday that the Library will be closed. Why don't you drop by on the following Saturday to see just how many hundreds of people will be bashing the door down to use the building during summer weekends:rolleyes:

Well, twice in the last week I have been thwarted in my attempts to make a start on Econometrics for next year. Granted, one of those times was my fault because I forgot what day of the week it was. But still, its impossible to determine the demand for library services when ye're closed.

In the end, I got the books I need from my another library. Other students don't have such resources to fall back on.

Unshelved · 03-08-2006 09:27AM

Well, twice in the last week I have been thwarted in my attempts to make a start on Econometrics for next year. Granted, one of those times was my fault because I forgot what day of the week it was. But still, its impossible to determine the demand for library services when ye're closed.

The Library is not closed. It opens daily from 9.30am until 5.00pm on weekdays. From next week it will open until 9.00pm on Thursdays and from 9.30am until 1.00pm on Saturdays.

If you're an undergraduate, all books that you need should be on the open shelf. If they are not, bring it to the attention of a member of staff. If you're a postgraduate and need to use Bookstacks or Santry books - these will be available on Tuesday, after the Bank Holiday weekend. In the meantime, you can avail of the National Library, or use any other university library with your ALCID card.

I'm sorry that your attempt to make a start on Econometrics have been thwarted. If you make your complaints clearer, maybe the Library would be in a position to be of some more assistance to you - as they stand, we can't do anything because we don't know what exactly they are.

punka · 03-08-2006 10:48AM

Unshelved wrote:

If you're an undergraduate, all books that you need should be on the open shelf. If they are not, bring it to the attention of a member of staff. If you're a postgraduate and need to use Bookstacks or Santry books - these will be available on Tuesday, after the Bank Holiday weekend. In the meantime, you can avail of the National Library, or use any other university library with your ALCID card.

Out of interest, is there a policy that all books on undergraduate reading lists are supposed to be on the open shelves/in counter reserve?

Unshelved · 03-08-2006 11:57AM

That's the theory. In practice, Library staff are dependent on Lecturers to keep them up to date with course needs, and that can vary from lecturer to lecturer. If a book is on your undergraduate reading list and is not on the open shelf, then bring it to the attention of a member of Staff and they'll do their best to get a copy onto the shelf as soon as possible.

Tricity Bendix · 03-08-2006 12:06PM

Unshelved wrote:

The Library is not closed. It opens daily from 9.30am until 5.00pm on weekdays. From next week it will open until 9.00pm on Thursdays and from 9.30am until 1.00pm on Saturdays.

If you're an undergraduate, all books that you need should be on the open shelf. If they are not, bring it to the attention of a member of staff. If you're a postgraduate and need to use Bookstacks or Santry books - these will be available on Tuesday, after the Bank Holiday weekend. In the meantime, you can avail of the National Library, or use any other university library with your ALCID card.

I'm sorry that your attempt to make a start on Econometrics have been thwarted. If you make your complaints clearer, maybe the Library would be in a position to be of some more assistance to you - as they stand, we can't do anything because we don't know what exactly they are.

Well, if the library is not closed, what would you call its condition after 5.00pm? Its can be very difficult for students in summer employment to make it in before the library closes. I'm delighted that the library opening times are returning to normal, and I do think that the extended opening hours on thursday are an excellent idea, so I don't want to come accross as entirely negative. But still, I was thwarted by the opening hours, not by unavailability. For clarification, I went on Tuesday after work and on Saturday morning. And I don't have an ALCID card, but I do have access to DIT and UCD libraries. But, like I said, not all students have such access to other institutions.

thegloriousend · 03-08-2006 12:09PM

The system is terrible. The one time I actually needed to use the library I found I was unable to take out any of the 4 books of interest to me. These were all in russian for a project, but I needed to work in conjunction with my dad as he speaks fluent russian. Without the yellow sticker I was unable to take them out.
What made it even worse was the fact that these books had never even seen the light of day. Just wasting space and money but somehow inflating Tcd's reputation.

Unshelved · 03-08-2006 12:26PM

b.ie curious, as I said before, I do sympathise. The reality of the situation is that the Library has a budget to adhere to - and it just does not make financial sense to light it, staff it - even just with security guards - and insure it so that it can remain open for the handful of students who might use it in the summertime after 5.00pm. (For the record, there's hardly anyone here at the moment, 12.15pm, Thursday afternoon).

thegloriousend, I'm sorry you weren't able to borrow the books you needed. Did you speak to your subject librarian? If you were able to make a good enough case he/she may have allowed you to borrow them. With over 4 million books in the collection it's not surprising that some haven't been looked at in a long time. However, that does not lessen the Library's duty of care towards them, which may include restricting borrowing. The borrowing regulations are in place for good reasons - reasons which the Duty Librarian or Subject Librarian would be happy to explain to you should you need it.

Tricity Bendix · 03-08-2006 12:56PM

Unshelved wrote:

b.ie curious, as I said before, I do sympathise. The reality of the situation is that the Library has a budget to adhere to - and it just does not make financial sense to light it, staff it - even just with security guards - and insure it so that it can remain open for the handful of students who might use it in the summertime after 5.00pm. (For the record, there's hardly anyone here at the moment, 12.15pm, Thursday afternoon).

If the money is available in UCD, I see no good reason why it can't be made available in Trinity. I have seen what happens when the case for library services is made in a determined, reform-orientated and customer-based way. And, while no library is perfect, it can radically change how department and university heads view library services (we're not just there for free newspapers!) and lead to increased resources.

Unshelved · 03-08-2006 01:15PM

UCD Library does not have the overheads that TCD Library does - the buildings are smaller, the staffing levels are lower, and the collections are dwarfed by those in TCD. UCD does not have to cope with the copyright allocation that TCD Library has to. UCD is a copyright library for the RoI only, TCD is the only Irish Library that received books from Great Britain and Ireland under copyright - at present over 100,000 of books yearly. All these books have to be processed, catalogued and stored - and this is all apart from the responsibility towards the staff and student body, and all that has to be paid for out of the budget.

It is a privilege for the Library to receive this allocation, but also a responsibility and in some ways, a burden. You can argue whether or not copyright should be maintained by the Library - but that's an argument for another day.

No institution is perfect, and I'm not making the claim that the Library is. UCD and DIT don't open on Saturdays in the summer, for example, and TCD does. UCD and the DIT have more extended opening hours during the week than TCD does. It's swings and roundabouts. If you're absolutely determined to find fault with the Library, then you will. I'm just making the point that there are limitations to what the Library can achieve because of the restrictions that they work under.

I'm glad you take such an interest in Library services. If you became a SU Rep next term, you could lobby the Provost and the Board to increase the budget, and therefore the opening hours.

Tricity Bendix · 03-08-2006 02:13PM

Unshelved wrote:

UCD Library does not have the overheads that TCD Library does - the buildings are smaller, the staffing levels are lower, and the collections are dwarfed by those in TCD. UCD does not have to cope with the copyright allocation that TCD Library has to. UCD is a copyright library for the RoI only, TCD is the only Irish Library that received books from Great Britain and Ireland under copyright - at present over 100,000 of books yearly. All these books have to be processed, catalogued and stored - and this is all apart from the responsibility towards the staff and student body, and all that has to be paid for out of the budget.

It is a privilege for the Library to receive this allocation, but also a responsibility and in some ways, a burden. You can argue whether or not copyright should be maintained by the Library - but that's an argument for another day.

No institution is perfect, and I'm not making the claim that the Library is. UCD and DIT don't open on Saturdays in the summer, for example, and TCD does. UCD and the DIT have more extended opening hours during the week than TCD does. It's swings and roundabouts. If you're absolutely determined to find fault with the Library, then you will. I'm just making the point that there are limitations to what the Library can achieve because of the restrictions that they work under.

I'm glad you take such an interest in Library services. If you became a SU Rep next term, you could lobby the Provost and the Board to increase the budget, and therefore the opening hours.

I realise that Trinity is in a unique position, but sometimes I think the library focuses too much on its position as a copyright library. Simply being a copyright library does not mean you are supplying the consumer with the highest possible standard of service. The library must always approach any situation from the perspective of how it can best serve students with the resources its given. I don't want to come accross as someone who bashes the library for sh*ts and giggles, as xeduCat put it. But I do honestly believe that a better deal for students can be struck, both in terms of opening hours and availability of books.

I wonder if the difference in staffing levels is entirely down to the increased workload associated with extra processing reponsibilities, or if it has something to do with a different work culture.

Comparing Trinity library to libraries in Britain, I don't think you'll find such a difference as British libraries tend to be rather staff-heavy.

Oh, and as much as I'd love to run for the SU, I don't think my politics are highly electable.:)

Hitchhiker's Guide to... · 03-08-2006 02:30PM

Unshelved wrote:

Perhaps if you spelled out what your expectations are to the relevant subject librarian, the library would be in a position to meet some of them. There's not much anyone can do with complaints such as the above when they don't even know what exactly your gripe is.

b.ie curious - you should do this. The business/economics subject librarian is brilliant. Once emailed her a list of circa 30-40 books that would help my research, but were missing from the library. She emailed back about two weeks later saying she had got all the books. sweet!

am sure she would be more than accomodating sorting out anything within her power to sort out (but, obviously not opening hours!)

Hitchhiker's Guide to... · 03-08-2006 02:33PM

b.ie curious wrote:

Comparing Trinity library to libraries in Britain, I don't think you'll find such a difference as British libraries tend to be rather staff-heavy.

British uni libraries are woeful compared to TCD for business/economics resources, based on my experience of three of them (and two of those unis are meant to be top-of-the-line for business/economics).

thegloriousend · 03-08-2006 03:04PM

Would it be fair to say that there are borrowing restrictions on more than 75% of Tcd's books? Seriously each book is treated like it was the Book of Kells.

Unshelved · 03-08-2006 03:12PM

I don't want to come accross as someone who bashes the library for sh*ts and giggles, as xeduCat put it. But I do honestly believe that a better deal for students can be struck, both in terms of opening hours and availability of books.

Have you complained via the Library webpage? Via the suggestion box? To any members of staff? Or are your complaints just limited to this discussion board? If they're limited to this board then what do you expect to achieve? If you take your complaints to people who can do something about them then maybe you'll get some progress.

I wonder if the difference in staffing levels is entirely down to the increased workload associated with extra processing reponsibilities, or if it has something to do with a different work culture.

Nice. If you're trying to say in some oblique way that Library staff are lazy or workshy, why don't you come out and say so? All I can see is someone who whinges endlessly on a board but doesn't do anything concrete to allieviate his/her situation. Blaming Library staff for something that is out of their control is a lazy argument. Why don't you do what Roundtower and other students do - list your complaints in a clear way and send them to someone in a position to do something about them?

Oh, and as much as I'd love to run for the SU, I don't think my politics are highly electable.

The whinging, complaining and and wringing your hands school of politics? How very productive. As far as I know, many classes had no reps on the SU council because nobody came forward. Was yours one of those? If it was, why didn't you volunteer? If not, why didn't you bring your complaints to your rep? Or the SU education officer? Or your lecturer? Or the Librarian? There's no shortage of places to constructively complain to? Why limit yourself to the least ineffective place? You seem to have plenty of ideas - why not come forward with them to somewhere other than a board with a handful of readers?

Crash · 03-08-2006 05:50PM

now now unshelved, we're Irish. we don't do constructive complaining very well.

Black_Couch · 03-08-2006 07:20PM

Open 24 hours? 10 people voted for this!

So tell me, how many people are going to be in the library at 4 in the morning if the library stays open 24 hours?

mizz.yelof!!! · 03-08-2006 10:15PM

random question, unrelated to library,any one know when timetables for supplementals is going up???

Tricity Bendix · 04-08-2006 12:38AM

Unshelved wrote:

Have you complained via the Library webpage? Via the suggestion box? To any members of staff? Or are your complaints just limited to this discussion board? If they're limited to this board then what do you expect to achieve? If you take your complaints to people who can do something about them then maybe you'll get some progress.

No I haven't made a complaint or a suggestion, but I certainly haven't limited my 'complaints' to an internet discussion forum. I have already told the incoming education officer what I think of the level of service provided by Trinity library. I refuse to accept that the library management could be so warped and out of touch that they don't know the issues that irritate students. But perhaps I should make use of the suggestion box, thanks for the suggestion.

Unshelved wrote:

Nice. If you're trying to say in some oblique way that Library staff are lazy or workshy, why don't you come out and say so? All I can see is someone who whinges endlessly on a board but doesn't do anything concrete to allieviate his/her situation. Blaming Library staff for something that is out of their control is a lazy argument. Why don't you do what Roundtower and other students do - list your complaints in a clear way and send them to someone in a position to do something about them?

A bit touchy today, are we? If you took offence at what I wrote, I am sorry, but I do think you've gotten the wrong end of the stick. I was commenting on staffing levels, not the commitment or dedication of staff. Frankly, how you came to that conclusion baffles me. When did I ever blame the library staff? In fact, what are you accusing me of blaming the staff of? It can hardly be the fault of employees if Trinity is overstaffed (which I never said it was, btw). Staffing levels don't necessarily impact productivity. There could be many reasons why Trinity library has more staff (other than the extra responsibilities of being a copyright library) such as levels of supervision, division of labour, use of computers etc.

Unshelved wrote:

The whinging, complaining and and wringing your hands school of politics? How very productive. As far as I know, many classes had no reps on the SU council because nobody came forward. Was yours one of those? If it was, why didn't you volunteer? If not, why didn't you bring your complaints to your rep? Or the SU education officer? Or your lecturer? Or the Librarian? There's no shortage of places to constructively complain to? Why limit yourself to the least ineffective place? You seem to have plenty of ideas - why not come forward with them to somewhere other than a board with a handful of readers?

I was thinking more along the lines of my party politics. As for whinging, complaining and wringing my hands, I have every right to complain about the library. Now, you counter my arguments, but attacking me for complaining is lazy and not very productive in itself. If this is how library staff react every time a complaint is made I can certainly understand why the effort to reform has been frustrated.

My class did have a rep, but I don't put much store in the abilities of class reps to make an impact on issues of such magnitude. And, as I've already mentioned, I have talked to the incoming education officer. Btw, I don't regard boards.ie as being entirely ineffective. It has allowed me to articulate some of the disquiet about Trinity library that I have been feeling for some time and has helped me to get a handle on the scope of the issue.

What time should the library open at?

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