What time should the library open at?

fluppet

What time do you think the library should open at during lecture and exam time? Of course it would be lovely if it was open 24hours, but that would cost a lot of money which would have to be taken from other student services, and I can't imagine many people being in the library at 3am anyway. Please vote seriously.
I would personally like to see it open at 8.30am - often I'm in a bit early for 9am lectures, and I want to do some study.

Nietzschean

should closing hours not be considered as part of this? one really doesn't matter alto without the other, i.e. if opening at 8 means it closes at 8:45 in the evening instead of 9:45 like?

personally 24hours as i'm up at odd hours of the night and i'd like to be able to goto the library...

Andrew 83

Well 8.30 might be slightly better but personally I think weekend hours are more of an issue than weekdays, I think the weekday hours are quite good.

wheresthebeef

7.30 or 8 is a good time. cos they are practical enough to get into town at that time, if you needed to go in to study something, but still had to be in a lecture by 9.
opening at 8.30 would be too late for starting at 9.
opening hours should be increased, but thats never going to happen. unless they get volunteer librarians.

Crash

I'd much prefer closing times to be extended than opening hours - I hate having to leave the library and head to the reading room to finish stuff :P

punka

&#231 wrote: »

I'd much prefer closing times to be extended than opening hours - I hate having to leave the library and head to the reading room to finish stuff :P

I agree. Very few people surface in the Ussher before 10.30am unless it's exam or essay time, and I'd say about half the people who DO show up before then just leave their stuff and head off again. I don't think enough people go in early to justify it opening before 9. Far better to stay open till 11 or even midnight, and to have proper weekend hours.

Tricity Bendix

Of course it would be lovely if it was open 24hours, but that would cost a lot of money which would have to be taken from other student services,

Perhaps not. In UCD the library stays open after the issue desk shuts down. People can stay and study longer, but can't use issue or information desks. The only extra staffing costs was one security guard. They had to do a bit of outsourcing to get him because of union issues. In the end he turned out to be far more capable and 'customer-friendly' than the day staff. I think it would be entirely possible for Trinity to follow in this direction.

glucosamine

it's interetsing that the gym is open longer hours then the hamilton library at the moment. actually, that's not particularly interesting, but it even opens before it.

Right_Side

b.ie curious wrote:

Perhaps not. In UCD the library stays open after the issue desk shuts down. People can stay and study longer, but can't use issue or information desks. The only extra staffing costs was one security guard. They had to do a bit of outsourcing to get him because of union issues. In the end he turned out to be far more capable and 'customer-friendly' than the day staff. I think it would be entirely possible for Trinity to follow in this direction.

This is the exact solution.

glucosamine

the library should be also largely self service. you take your book to a counter. you swipe ur student card. you scan your book. the scanned book is then permited to be deactivated on the swipey thing so it doesn't set off alarms.

gilroyb

glucosamine wrote:

the library should be also largely self service. ...you take your book to a counter. you swipe ur student card. you scan your book. the scanned book is then permited to be deactivated on the swipey thing so it doesn't set off alarms...

...you take home an extremely rare book by switching it when it comes to the swipe....

John

A lot of UK universities have a self service system and they work (in general). A friend of mine works in a library in Bristol and they've more trouble with people breaking in for flat screen monitors than books.

Nietzschean

gilroyb wrote:

...you take home an extremely rare book by switching it when it comes to the swipe....

if that was a big problem there are ways around it, have the book secured for the entire transaction so they can't swap it

glucosamine

minor issue. i'm sure solved already many times in many places. even if you take the ultra rare book you'd have be on the record for having a different book out and wouldn't be able to return it. also the book swipper that deacatives the yoke could be smart enough to distinguish different books.

Crash

in fairness now, the organisational skills in trinity would NOT be up to this sort of thing. Hell, the only reason there's an online and searchable list of the old library books is thanks to two concurrent comp sci years being used for it. and the best part? the library dont put it where people can use it :rolleyes:

Nietzschean

well it would require an investment in technology to do it so dunno how well that'd go.... if you have security there you could just have the swipe yokes at his desk be doing well to make the swap beside him..

ApeXaviour

&#231 wrote: »

I'd much prefer closing times to be extended than opening hours - I hate having to leave the library and head to the reading room to finish stuff :P

Agreed. Morning is morning, you can start when you want. If it stayed open til 2am now that would be handy. I hate just being booted out of there when I'm in the midst of understanding something or working something out.

Unshelved

in fairness now, the organisational skills in trinity would NOT be up to this sort of thing. Hell, the only reason there's an online and searchable list of the old library books is thanks to two concurrent comp sci years being used for it. and the best part? the library dont put it where people can use it

All old and rare books acquired since 1960 have a record in the Library's online catalogue.

The catalogue that you refer to is the old Printed Catalogue which covers book received into the Library from its foundation until 1870. This along with the Accessions catalogue (big brown books in the Iveagh Hall) is being assimilated into the Library's main catalogue thanks to a grant from the Mellon Foundation.

The scanned in version of the Printed Catalogue that you talk about is available to all Library users in the Department of Early Printed books.

Hitchhiker's Guide to...

Have that electronic checkout thing here in Cardiff uni. Quite handy. Makes you feel like you are in that self-service Tesco in Rathmines.

The library has advanced so much in the last few years. They offer a brilliant electronic service now. Loving the fact that they give you free Endnote, and have a connection file to connect to the TCD library through Endnote. They have become way ahead of the game in providing electronic services.

Crash

Unshelved wrote:

The scanned in version of the Printed Catalogue that you talk about is available to all Library users in the Department of Early Printed books.

Just as an aside, if anyone wants a copy of this, inquire to the CS department or the library (they should at least know something about it, they're the ones who asked for it) for the current searchable program. with word correction. written quite well by the erasmus students in my year, one must say.

Unshelved

While we're on the subject of the Library, next week and the week after that is the "Closed Fortnight" which means that from the 24th July until 8th August there will be -

- no service from Bookstacks or from Santry
- Early Printed Books and Manuscripts Departments will be closed
- no Saturday opening and no late opening on Thursdays

For everything else it's business as usual.

Tricity Bendix

Unshelved wrote:

While we're on the subject of the Library, next week and the week after that is the "Closed Fortnight" which means that from the 24th July until 8th August there will be -

- no service from Bookstacks or from Santry
- Early Printed Books and Manuscripts Departments will be closed
- no Saturday opening and no late opening on Thursdays

For everything else it's business as usual.

Having no service from stacks and santry is just taking the p!ss, really. I can understand shorter opening hours and the closure of the EPB, though.

xeduCat

Oh come off it. Until a couple of years ago, the library closed for two weeks in the middle of the summer. This made it easier to provide full service for the rest of the summer (concentration of holidays), and also to do a lot of admin and/or disruptive tasks (such as a full shelfcheck of all books). However in order to provide a better service, it was decided (2003 or 2004, can't remember) to stay open (with limited service).

How many stacks/santry books did you plan on ordering during that period anyway, Mr Curious? Or is it just another chance to have a bash at the library for sh1ts and giggles?

Kids today. Don't know they're born ;-)

John

xeduCat wrote:

Kids today. Don't know they're born ;-)

Back in my day, we were murdered everytime we took out a book and don't ask what happened whenever we got a book from stacks!

xeduCat

We had to walk across hot coals just to get a book, and could only get a seat if we fed bits of our friends to the tiger that guarded the stairs. You little boys and girls swanning around the Ussher never had that, eh?

Tricity Bendix

xeduCat wrote:

Oh come off it. Until a couple of years ago, the library closed for two weeks in the middle of the summer. This made it easier to provide full service for the rest of the summer (concentration of holidays), and also to do a lot of admin and/or disruptive tasks (such as a full shelfcheck of all books). However in order to provide a better service, it was decided (2003 or 2004, can't remember) to stay open (with limited service).

How many stacks/santry books did you plan on ordering during that period anyway, Mr Curious? Or is it just another chance to have a bash at the library for sh1ts and giggles?

Kids today. Don't know they're born ;-)

I work in a library. All are services are available for the entire summer.

Unshelved

It IS a nuisance for those people using the Library - but think of it this way. There are jobs that can only be undertaken in the Summer so that disruption to our students is at a minimum. For reasons of space, we need to move books and periodicals from the bookstacks to Santry; we need to look at the books on the shelves and sort out those that need repairing and those that can be recatalogued to bookstacks so that room is made for new stock; and we need to check the shelves to see what books have gone missing during the year.

These tasks need all available staff so certain services have to be curtailed. In the past we closed the Library altogether - which was a huge inconvenience to postgrads and those studying for repeats. Now the Library stays open but we can't offer a full service while we do all the checking and moving that needs to be done.

On my floor at the moment there is one student - and he's visiting from another university. The situation is repeated on all the other floors - give or take a few bodies. Think of it as something of a damage limitation exercise - some will be inconvenienced, but at this time of the year it's as few as possible. The disruption is regretted, but quite honestly, it's unavoidable.

Nietzschean

b.ie curious wrote:

I work in a library. All are services are available for the entire summer.

i suspect that library is nothing on the scale of tcd's libraries nor has the sheer volume of books go through it every year?

xeduCat

I suspect so, given that TCD is the largest in Ireland...

And of course many libraries are able to provide full-service (albeit a different type of service) all year round. The point here, though, is that because of the size and complexity of the TCD collection, closing for two weeks, for purposes somewhat like a stocktaking, has been a long-standing practice.

In response to student demand, that practice has been modified to at least attempt to faciliate the small number of (mostly research) students and staff to whom this presented a problem. So (well-meaning) suggestions from curious types are seen in that light - what's happening is already a compromise between student requests and the efficient running of the library.

b.ie-c, where you working this summer? you should apply for shelving work in TCD if you enjoy it, at the start of Michaelmas term.

Tricity Bendix

Unshelved wrote:

It IS a nuisance for those people using the Library - but think of it this way. There are jobs that can only be undertaken in the Summer so that disruption to our students is at a minimum. For reasons of space, we need to move books and periodicals from the bookstacks to Santry; we need to look at the books on the shelves and sort out those that need repairing and those that can be recatalogued to bookstacks so that room is made for new stock; and we need to check the shelves to see what books have gone missing during the year.

I understand the kind of work that happens in libraries during the summer, and I can fully recognise that it requires disruption. However, we choose to spread the disruption over the entire summer, doing small sections at a time. I suppose its debatable which way is better for the user.

xeduCat wrote:

And of course many libraries are able to provide full-service (albeit a different type of service) all year round. The point here, though, is that because of the size and complexity of the TCD collection, closing for two weeks, for purposes somewhat like a stocktaking, has been a long-standing practice.

I'm afraid the excuse that its always happened one way doesn't really cut it. I've seen radical changes to running of libraries during my time. Most noticeably DCU during the 90's.

xeduCat wrote:

b.ie-c, where you working this summer? you should apply for shelving work in TCD if you enjoy it, at the start of Michaelmas term.

I've considered doing shelving work in TCD, but I'm not sure about the hours and pay. I'm currently working in DIT Aungier St., and its quite a cushy number in terms of flexibility and the moolah.

Degsy

Well i've been manning the BLU counter since 5pm today and i've served maybe twenty people..there are almost no undergrads this time of year and a very small number or postgrads and research students.The cost in electricity alone to keep the library open for this amount of people is enormous so be gratefull its open at all!;)

Tricity Bendix

Serving twenty people in two hours would be seen as quite productive in Aungier St.!

xeduCat

Oi, don't do yourself out of a job!

Time Magazine

When do the library hire shelvers? Is there much competition for the jobs? How many shifts a week is the average, and how long are the shifts? I'd love to work there.

I've even been working on my CV for the last two days .

Nothingcompares

i hear xtra-vision is hiring.

Time Magazine

In case you're suggesting I was fired, I wasn't!

I'm just going to leave come October.

Nothingcompares

Good good.

xeduCat

Angry Banana wrote:

When do the library hire shelvers? Is there much competition for the jobs? How many shifts a week is the average, and how long are the shifts? I'd love to work there.

I've even been working on my CV for the last two days .

There's someone else posting on this thread who knows more about this, so hopefully they'll read this and respond (or you could take a guess and PM them).

When I shelved it was twelve hours a week (or so), and I worked 8-10 (ish) mornings in the Lecky. In the Hamilton, I think they have a bit more of a split between morning and evening. And again in "the BLU" it can vary from area to area - I think some people mix mornings and afternoons or come in for an hour in the morning and then go off to lectures and come back to finish off later.

Unsure on hiring schedule, but usually before Freshers' Week. Sometimes people are needed during the year too if people drop out.

John

Angry Banana wrote:

In case you're suggesting I was fired, I wasn't!

I'm just going to leave come October.

Liar, I know you were teabagging the Ben and Jerry's!

Time Magazine

xeduCat wrote:

There's someone else posting on this thread who knows more about this, so hopefully they'll read this and respond (or you could take a guess and PM them).

Unfortunately they don't have their PM facility turned on.

Thanks for your post .

Crash

*me looks for a better job than cineworld...unshelved? :P*

thegloriousend

The TCD library is so ****. I had high expectations but found I was only able to take out mashed up scraps of paper with little yellow stickers on them. Terrible library.

In relation to closing times - they def should be extended, but only during exam times. Atm closing hours on the weekend are unbelievable..

Unshelved

The TCD library is so ****. I had high expectations but found I was only able to take out mashed up scraps of paper with little yellow stickers on them. Terrible library.

Perhaps if you spelled out what your expectations are to the relevant subject librarian, the library would be in a position to meet some of them. There's not much anyone can do with complaints such as the above when they don't even know what exactly your gripe is.

Regarding "closing hours on the weekend" - the 5th will be the last Saturday that the Library will be closed. Why don't you drop by on the following Saturday to see just how many hundreds of people will be bashing the door down to use the building during summer weekends:rolleyes:

Tricity Bendix

Unshelved wrote:

Perhaps if you spelled out what your expectations are to the relevant subject librarian, the library would be in a position to meet some of them. There's not much anyone can do with complaints such as the above when they don't even know what exactly your gripe is.

Regarding "closing hours on the weekend" - the 5th will be the last Saturday that the Library will be closed. Why don't you drop by on the following Saturday to see just how many hundreds of people will be bashing the door down to use the building during summer weekends:rolleyes:

Well, twice in the last week I have been thwarted in my attempts to make a start on Econometrics for next year. Granted, one of those times was my fault because I forgot what day of the week it was. But still, its impossible to determine the demand for library services when ye're closed.

In the end, I got the books I need from my another library. Other students don't have such resources to fall back on.

Unshelved

Well, twice in the last week I have been thwarted in my attempts to make a start on Econometrics for next year. Granted, one of those times was my fault because I forgot what day of the week it was. But still, its impossible to determine the demand for library services when ye're closed.

The Library is not closed. It opens daily from 9.30am until 5.00pm on weekdays. From next week it will open until 9.00pm on Thursdays and from 9.30am until 1.00pm on Saturdays.

If you're an undergraduate, all books that you need should be on the open shelf. If they are not, bring it to the attention of a member of staff. If you're a postgraduate and need to use Bookstacks or Santry books - these will be available on Tuesday, after the Bank Holiday weekend. In the meantime, you can avail of the National Library, or use any other university library with your ALCID card.

I'm sorry that your attempt to make a start on Econometrics have been thwarted. If you make your complaints clearer, maybe the Library would be in a position to be of some more assistance to you - as they stand, we can't do anything because we don't know what exactly they are.

punka

Unshelved wrote:

If you're an undergraduate, all books that you need should be on the open shelf. If they are not, bring it to the attention of a member of staff. If you're a postgraduate and need to use Bookstacks or Santry books - these will be available on Tuesday, after the Bank Holiday weekend. In the meantime, you can avail of the National Library, or use any other university library with your ALCID card.

Out of interest, is there a policy that all books on undergraduate reading lists are supposed to be on the open shelves/in counter reserve?

Unshelved

That's the theory. In practice, Library staff are dependent on Lecturers to keep them up to date with course needs, and that can vary from lecturer to lecturer. If a book is on your undergraduate reading list and is not on the open shelf, then bring it to the attention of a member of Staff and they'll do their best to get a copy onto the shelf as soon as possible.

Tricity Bendix

Unshelved wrote:

The Library is not closed. It opens daily from 9.30am until 5.00pm on weekdays. From next week it will open until 9.00pm on Thursdays and from 9.30am until 1.00pm on Saturdays.

If you're an undergraduate, all books that you need should be on the open shelf. If they are not, bring it to the attention of a member of staff. If you're a postgraduate and need to use Bookstacks or Santry books - these will be available on Tuesday, after the Bank Holiday weekend. In the meantime, you can avail of the National Library, or use any other university library with your ALCID card.

I'm sorry that your attempt to make a start on Econometrics have been thwarted. If you make your complaints clearer, maybe the Library would be in a position to be of some more assistance to you - as they stand, we can't do anything because we don't know what exactly they are.

Well, if the library is not closed, what would you call its condition after 5.00pm? Its can be very difficult for students in summer employment to make it in before the library closes. I'm delighted that the library opening times are returning to normal, and I do think that the extended opening hours on thursday are an excellent idea, so I don't want to come accross as entirely negative. But still, I was thwarted by the opening hours, not by unavailability. For clarification, I went on Tuesday after work and on Saturday morning. And I don't have an ALCID card, but I do have access to DIT and UCD libraries. But, like I said, not all students have such access to other institutions.

thegloriousend

The system is terrible. The one time I actually needed to use the library I found I was unable to take out any of the 4 books of interest to me. These were all in russian for a project, but I needed to work in conjunction with my dad as he speaks fluent russian. Without the yellow sticker I was unable to take them out.
What made it even worse was the fact that these books had never even seen the light of day. Just wasting space and money but somehow inflating Tcd's reputation.

Unshelved

b.ie curious, as I said before, I do sympathise. The reality of the situation is that the Library has a budget to adhere to - and it just does not make financial sense to light it, staff it - even just with security guards - and insure it so that it can remain open for the handful of students who might use it in the summertime after 5.00pm. (For the record, there's hardly anyone here at the moment, 12.15pm, Thursday afternoon).

thegloriousend, I'm sorry you weren't able to borrow the books you needed. Did you speak to your subject librarian? If you were able to make a good enough case he/she may have allowed you to borrow them. With over 4 million books in the collection it's not surprising that some haven't been looked at in a long time. However, that does not lessen the Library's duty of care towards them, which may include restricting borrowing. The borrowing regulations are in place for good reasons - reasons which the Duty Librarian or Subject Librarian would be happy to explain to you should you need it.

Tricity Bendix

Unshelved wrote:

b.ie curious, as I said before, I do sympathise. The reality of the situation is that the Library has a budget to adhere to - and it just does not make financial sense to light it, staff it - even just with security guards - and insure it so that it can remain open for the handful of students who might use it in the summertime after 5.00pm. (For the record, there's hardly anyone here at the moment, 12.15pm, Thursday afternoon).

If the money is available in UCD, I see no good reason why it can't be made available in Trinity. I have seen what happens when the case for library services is made in a determined, reform-orientated and customer-based way. And, while no library is perfect, it can radically change how department and university heads view library services (we're not just there for free newspapers!) and lead to increased resources.